Do you have a problem with what

[Swift Terror 0]

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&i...ws%26id%3D68467

 

 

 

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washingt...some_in_combat/ :

 

Marine general says it's 'fun' to shoot some in combat

By John J. Lumpkin, Associated Press  |  February 4, 2005

 

WASHINGTON -- A decorated Marine Corps general said, "It's fun to shoot some people" and poked fun at the manhood of Afghans as he described the wars US troops are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

His boss, the commandant of the Marine Corps, said yesterday that the comments reflected "the unfortunate and harsh realities of war" but that the general has been asked to watch his words in public.

 

Lieutenant General James N. Mattis, a career infantry officer who is now in charge of developing better ways to train and equip Marines, made the comments Tuesday while speaking to a forum in San Diego.

 

According to an audio recording, he said, "Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot . . . It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up front with you. I like brawling."

 

He added, "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

 

His comments were met with laughter and applause from the audience. Mattis was speaking during a panel discussion hosted by the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association, a spokeswoman for the general said.

 

Yesterday, General Mike Hagee, commandant of the Marine Corps, issued a statement saying, "Lieutenant General Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor. I have counseled him concerning his remarks and he agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

 

Hagee also said, "While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh realities of war."

 

Among Marines, Mattis is regarded as a fighting general and an expert in the art of warfare. Among his decorations are the Bronze Star with a combat distinguishing device and a combat action ribbon, awarded for close-quarters fighting.

 

He is currently the commanding general of the Marine Corps Combat Development Command in Quantico, Va., and deputy commandant for combat development.

 

Marine General Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said it was up to Mattis to explain his own comments, but he added, "All of us who are leaders have a responsibility in our words and our actions to provide the right example all the time for those who look to us for leadership."

 

Pace spoke at a Pentagon news conference. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said he had not read Mattis's words and deferred to Pace.

 

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Muslim civil liberties group, called on the Pentagon to discipline Mattis for the remarks.

 

"We do not need generals who treat the grim business of war as a sporting event," said the council's executive director, Nihad Awad. "These disturbing remarks are indicative of an apparent indifference to the value of human life."

 

Pace and Hagee praised the general's service.

 

"His actions and those of his troops clearly show that he understands the value of proper leadership and the value of human life," Pace said.

 

Hagee called Mattis "one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders," and said he was confident he would continue to serve with distinction.

 

Mattis's comments were reported by KNSD-TV in San Diego, and the audio recording was posted on its website www.nbcsandiego.com.

 

As a lieutenant colonel, Mattis led an assault battalion into Kuwait during the first war with Iraq. He commanded troops during the war in Afghanistan, and during the second war in Iraq, he commanded the First Marine Division during the invasion and also when the unit returned for counterinsurgency operations.

 

 

 

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3023771 :

 

Seated at a long table next to other military commanders, Mattis told about 200 people at the San Diego Convention Center: "Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up front with you, I like brawling."

 

Mattis added: "You go into Afghanistan, you've got guys who slapped women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

 

His comments were met with laughter and applause from many at the forum, hosted by the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association and the U.S. Naval Institute and sponsored by many top U.S. defense contractors.

 

But on Thursday, after the comments were reported by San Diego television station KNSD, a prominent Muslim civil liberties group called on the Pentagon to discipline Mattis.

 

"We do not need generals who treat the grim business of war as a sporting event," said Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

He sounds like an asshole as well as a dumbass, but I don't really expect an uproar over something like this, if only because most people probably don't see anything wrong with what he said.

[Guest BDC]

I think a big part of this is that you have to have some way to cope with what's going on in a warzone. I hold soldiers in pretty much the same regard I do police officers: I wasn't there so it's hard for me to pass any kind of judgement.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I think a big part of this is that you have to have some way to cope with what's going on in a warzone. I hold soldiers in pretty much the same regard I do police officers: I wasn't there so it's hard for me to pass any kind of judgement.

Surprisingly, this is a sentiment that Conservatives use to criticize the way Liberals think, as in when they pander to criminals who don't deserve said pandering.

[NoCalMike 0]

I think he could have maybe thought out a little better what to say, but really, it doesn't bother me, and I don't even think it deserves to be "news" at all.

[Guest CronoT]

After reading the full part, it seems to me the comment was taken a wee bit out of context. It's a known fact that most Americans detest the way women are treated in general in Islamic countries.

 

Also, about this:

 

"We do not need generals who treat the grim business of war as a sporting event," said Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

 

That's a fine thing to say, considering that the Taliban was using a sporting event arena, namedly a soccer stadium, to carry out public executions in. If this Awad guy is coming to come into this argument, thinking his shit don't stink, he might as well "get right back on the boat."

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I'm offended.

 

He didn't even mentioning beheading the SUB-HUMAN MONKEYS...

[NoCalMike 0]

Also, about this:

 

"We do not need generals who treat the grim business of war as a sporting event," said Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

 

That's a fine thing to say, considering that the Taliban was using a sporting event arena, namedly a soccer stadium, to carry out public executions in. If this Awad guy is coming to come into this argument, thinking his shit don't stink, he might as well "get right back on the boat."

Well it is important to win public support of the country you are actively dropping bombs on, I would say...eh?

 

I mean, like I said, I don't really have a problem with that guy said in the context it was said, but if I was an Afgani, I might not be thrilled that soliders think shooting people is "fun"

[Ripper 0]

Maybe it is fun. Have you ever shot anyone?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

No, but I get giddy when I use the "hit stick" on Madden '05...

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Do you have a problem with what this Marine Corps general said?

 

No... sir?

[2GOLD 0]

Do you have a problem with what this Marine Corps general said?

 

No... sir?

 

I DIDN'T HEAR YOU MAGGOT!

 

and of course, the correct response would be

 

SIR, NO SIR!

[Guest Brian]

That reminded me of Major Payne.

[Guest Cerebus]

Spend any time in the military or with those in the military, and you'll hear FAR worse, especially infantrymen, and especially Marines. It's just testosterone filled bluster, that's all. Hell, I've said things that are a lot worse than shooting Taliban would be fun (which it would be).

 

Still, you would think someone with the political savvy to become an LTG would have better sense to say this at a forum with civvies.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Pretty much along the lines of what Cerberus said. Military is, and always be that way concerning someone that was the enemy. Why mince words when you are out there killing each other? War ain't PC. Bitches.

 

 

 

[Jobber of the Week 0]

This very same guy will probably scratch his head later in life and wonder why other Americans see the armed forces (or at least him) as not regular people called into duty, but as remorseless killing machines.

[Guest Cerebus]

Give me a break. From my experience, soldiers from any army are no different, they're pumped up with too much testosterone, confidence, and angry focus. People won't think that b/c of what one general said, they'll say it because they've had America as a pariah for years.

[Jingus 0]

...can anyone explain to me why having fun while shooting someone is worse than the actual shooting itself?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I'm not saying that this guy's soley responsible for it, I said he's contributing to the image. This isn't some guy fighting in Iraq who just stepped out of a firefight and said it's a real thrill, I could understand that. This guy's high up enough on the military ladder and far enough away from the battlefield that he should be smart enough to watch his words. But he isn't.

 

Thus, I suspect that in the future when he wonders why the image exists, the irony of his comments will be lost on him.

[Guest sek69]

I think saying that its fun to shoot people makes him sound like the grown-up version of a kid who likes blowing up frogs with m-80s.

 

Even if you use the rationale that the people being killed are doing bad things, the fact remains that the US is supposed to be better than their enemy and saying its fun to shoot people is just a way to dehumanize the enemy which can be a slippery slope for all kinds of hilarity. Some of which we've already seen (prisoner abuse scandals).

 

As far as this guy in particular goes, I'm sure it was just a brainfart on his part, but it's another glimpse of the "its OK to do whatever to these people, they aren't human" mindset that I fear is going to bite people in the ass in a big way one day.

[Guest MikeSC]

This very same guy will probably scratch his head later in life and wonder why other Americans see the armed forces (or at least him) as not regular people called into duty, but as remorseless killing machines.

Yup, the left respects the military.

 

Obviously.

This guy's high up enough on the military ladder and far enough away from the battlefield that he should be smart enough to watch his words. But he isn't.

The evil sentiment that was expressed was:

 

Men who treat women worse than they treat a dog are fun to shoot.

 

Do you DISAGREE with that, JOTW?

 

You hear of a guy who beats the shit out of his girlfriend on a daily basis and you DON'T want to see the guy suffer a cruel fate?

Even if you use the rationale that the people being killed are doing bad things, the fact remains that the US is supposed to be better than their enemy and saying its fun to shoot people is just a way to dehumanize the enemy which can be a slippery slope for all kinds of hilarity. Some of which we've already seen (prisoner abuse scandals).

The enemies aren't human.

 

Hate to break it to you.

 

Sub-human monkeys is the only appropriate term for those shitbricks.

 

"How dare you dehumanize somebody who has no problem with killing rape victims for being raped/who thinks that beheading innocent people for daring to be in the wrong place at the wrong time/who feels that targeting innocents for killing is a solid military tactic!!!"

 

I somehow manage to actually have some semblance of perspective on this.

-=Mike

[MrRant 0]

Maybe it is fun. Have you ever shot anyone?

Not enough black people around here.

 

However... Mexicans are another story.

[Guest CronoT]

Maybe it is fun.  Have you ever shot anyone?

Not enough black people around here.

 

However... Mexicans are another story.

I wish I had the balls to say that.

[Guest INXS]

First off, this guy doesn't seem intelligent enough to hold the rank of General - he has displayed a severe lack of integrity. Secondly, any soldier that has been to war and killed people knows better than to brag about it. Typical American gun-ho reaction, full of ignorance.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

I froze.

[Vern Gagne 0]

First off, this guy doesn't seem intelligent enough to hold the rank of General - he has displayed a severe lack of integrity. Secondly, any soldier that has been to war and killed people knows better than to brag about it. Typical American gun-ho reaction, full of ignorance.

Typical moronic post from you.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The evil sentiment that was expressed was:

 

Men who treat women worse than they treat a dog are fun to shoot.

 

Do you DISAGREE with that, JOTW?

Yes. To find enjoyment in firing on live targets with no remorse is considered barbaric in modern cultures no matter whose doing it and what right or coutnry they're fighting for, and making light of it in public is never a good idea.

 

Look, Mike, there's a serial killer that I want to see dead. Due to the California system where we take our sweet time and only kill people once every five blue moons, he probably won't be executed. Although I would like to wake up one morning and hear that he's been gassed, and I would say it was "fun" or make humor out of it. It's taking a human life no matter what. One may say that it's a justified action or the right cause to do so, and I will not protest. But once you say that it makes for good entertainment, I say you are tasteless.

 

 

Consider this my own personal "pro-life" values. I'm not against killing when judged necessary, but I think it's a serious judgment that deserves a measure of respect, even if the person being targeted doesn't.

 

 

Lastly, imagine if this guy was any American but a military officer. If he told you he enjoyed killing people, no matter who it was, wouldn't you be just a little concerned? Such a public comment would likely result in some sort of investigation, and possibly cause for arrest.

[EricMM 0]

Mike, there's a huge difference between saying someone "deserves" to be shot and that someone is "fun" to shoot.

 

Surely you can see the difference here. Surely you can see how if someone is looking for evidence of innocents being shot at and other problems, someone saying he enjoys killing Afghanis would fuel the fire?

[Guest Cerebus]

For once, Cheese & I agree, there really isn't anything wrong with what he said just the place he said it.

 

If you really think our military shouldn't have this kind of mindset might as well tear up 200 years of military tradition and mindset and start all over. Starting with effectiveness.

[Guest sek69]

The enemies aren't human.

 

Hate to break it to you.

 

Sub-human monkeys is the only appropriate term for those shitbricks.

 

I hate to be the one who pulls the OMG HITLERLOL2005~! in this thread, but it its kind of alarming how close this statement is to how Nazis felt about Jews.

 

Unless the terrorists are sending trained dogs after the troops, then the enemies are human. If a civilian said it was fun to shoot people, they would probably end up getting a psych evaluation if not a stay in the Padded Room Estates. Yet just because a military person said it somehow the uniform makes it acceptable.