Dean For DNC Chair Thread #2

[EricMM 0]

So you're saying they haven't "Faced their Racism"?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

KY isn't racist for the most part, but we have our holdouts--older folks & redneckish types for the most part. I've witnessed both forms in the past 2 months. Hell--I have both in my own extended family.

 

I was working out at the gym and this young black guy, probably around my age, asked this older white lady if she minded if he changed the TV channel. She said okay..."as long as you don't change it to that BET stuff! I don't like that!." I guarantee you she would not have said that to me if I had asked her that, and I like rap music so I wouldn't be opposed to some BET.

 

Last weekend at a super bowl party I experienced type 2. This fat, drunken, loud white guy w/ a country accent somehow got to talking about time travel. He said if he could take anything w/ him back in time he would go back to when the slave trade was going on and take videos of rappers on TV. That would convince the slave traders not to bring the black people over here.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Hell there was nearly a race riot here in Pittsburgh after the cops killed a black guy.

If you're talking about Gammage they "killed" him when he put up a struggle and they had him pinned. Fuck him -- I was in college at the time and was threatened several times for defending the officers.

 

He said if he could take anything w/ him back in time he would go back to when the slave trade was going on and take videos of rappers on TV.

 

He has a point, although I'd show pictures of those mentioned above with 'dem white girls...

[The Czech Republic 0]

I was working out at the gym and this young black guy, probably around my age, asked this older white lady if she minded if he changed the TV channel. She said okay..."as long as you don't change it to that BET stuff! I don't like that!." I guarantee you she would not have said that to me if I had asked her that, and I like rap music so I wouldn't be opposed to some BET.

Yeah but white guys typically don't go "hey, you know what I'd much rather be watching? The black channel.", so that's understandable. I've had people change ALL four televisions to BET at the gym, and that was damn annoying. Wholly unnecessary. I was hardly about to do anything about it, though.

[Boon 0]

The best and IMO only countermeasure for not just POLICY racism but personal internal prejudice is simple exposure to people different from you.

I've never lived in the South, so I'm not going to defend or condemn it.

 

But shouldn't it be noted that in many northern states (Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, etc.) the African-American population is like, 5% at best?

 

If you're going to argue that exposure is the only way to cure racism, don't count on racism being over in all of the north just yet.

[EricMM 0]

And I'm in total agreement with you.

 

Some of the most ignorant people i know are from C-counties in Maryland (Calvert, Cecil, Carrol) or from various all-white sections of Jersey (If you go to UMCP you know that we're mostly MD, NY, NJ) But they have far more IGNORANCE to them than outright RACISM.

 

But I totally agree with you that almost everyone from those areas could benefit from an upbringing like mine. It would do a lot to fix race relations.

[Dr. Tom 0]

EricMM: the next GREAT EMANCIPATOR~!

[Guest MikeSC]

The best and IMO only countermeasure for not just POLICY racism but personal internal prejudice is simple exposure to people different from you.

I've never lived in the South, so I'm not going to defend or condemn it.

 

But shouldn't it be noted that in many northern states (Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, etc.) the African-American population is like, 5% at best?

 

If you're going to argue that exposure is the only way to cure racism, don't count on racism being over in all of the north just yet.

Indeed. I was honestly FLOORED at the total lack of black people in NJ. I was astonished at how few there are.

 

It's easy to cluck and say one should be better on "Race relations", when the racial make-up of their area is so out-of-whack to begin with.

-=Mike

[Boon 0]

Psh.

 

You guys should make the trip up to New Hampshire sometime, where I'm originally from.

 

I think we have more state liquor stores on our highways then we do African-American citizens. It's pathetic how white we are.

[Vyce 0]

All this dick-waving over who's part of the country is least-racist is meaningless.

 

The answer to the Condi nomination is still: the country as a whole is still far too prejudiced to elect a black woman into the presidency.

 

It'd be tough to elect a woman (should Hillary decide to run), and it would also be tough to elect a black man (should someone like Powell ever run), but a candidate who's both black and female? Forget it.

 

Not going to happen. We won't even be close to ready for that as a nation for at LEAST another dozen years or so.

[MrRant 0]

And I'm in total agreement with you.

 

Some of the most ignorant people i know are from C-counties in Maryland (Calvert, Cecil, Carrol) or from various all-white sections of Jersey (If you go to UMCP you know that we're mostly MD, NY, NJ) But they have far more IGNORANCE to them than outright RACISM.

 

But I totally agree with you that almost everyone from those areas could benefit from an upbringing like mine. It would do a lot to fix race relations.

Shut up.

[NoCalMike 0]

Sacramento is pretty diverse, and the truth of the matter is that racial jokes/language/satire etc....is thrown around so loosely by ALL RACES, that is is hard most of the time to tell who is just kidding, and who might be a legit racist, unless you personally know the people.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

on checking my zipcode and entering the data, it turns out i'm in a zipcode with 91% white people and 3% African-Americans. It's pretty much the same for the entire town. But, the town had segregated schools until sometime in the 50s before the Brown decision, if I recall correctly. (The county split is 68-23)

 

I'll also use this occasion to mention that I should get something from Arthur Bryant's again.

 

So yeah, the idea of "Treat people fairly" is pretty good.

 

If Condi runs, she will have her record as NSA and Secretary of State to defend and all that

[EricMM 0]

What, Rant, you think people would do better with your upbringing?

[The Czech Republic 0]

What, Rant, you think people would do better with your upbringing?

Oh, shut the fuck up about upbringing already.

[Guest MikeSC]

All this dick-waving over who's part of the country is least-racist is meaningless.

 

The answer to the Condi nomination is still: the country as a whole is still far too prejudiced to elect a black woman into the presidency.

 

It'd be tough to elect a woman (should Hillary decide to run), and it would also be tough to elect a black man (should someone like Powell ever run), but a candidate who's both black and female? Forget it.

 

Not going to happen. We won't even be close to ready for that as a nation for at LEAST another dozen years or so.

We've yet to HAVE a competent woman OR black candidate.

 

Hard to say people won't vote for one if a real option has never been presented.

-=Mike

[Dr. Tom 0]

I think it's safe to say a Black candidate would be very hard to elect. There are a lot of backward-thinking people in this country who, durnit, just ain't gon' vote them no darkies into the Whaht House. And no broads, neither, praise Jesus.

 

And I don't think those sentiments are confined to the South, or any other geographic region. I just don't think this country is ready to elect a Black candidate, nor a female one.

[Styles 0]

I agree with Tom. It's pointless to try to stereotype it to a region. It would be nice to think that someone like Dr. Rice based on her qualifications and proposals could get elected, but the truth is there is still a lot of supressed racism that might not be outward but is definitely still ingrained that would prevent a black WOMAN no less, from being elected President. Just because we're fairly educated, reasonable people, that doesn't mean that most voters will be.

The best shot of her getting elected would be as Vice President, coat-tailng a "nice safe" white male lead candidate. Then, after serving as VP, MAYBE having the familiarity and trust to be elected President.

 

I had a conversation a while back with a friend actually when I proposed that Dr. Rice would be the perfect candidate, a Republican that also attracts blacks and women. My friend countered that many Republicans would be reluctant to vote for a black woman because of traditionalism ingrained in many rural areas of the country while black Democrats wouldn't vote for her because many of them would brand her "a traitor" or "really white" or whatever other stereotype that's commonly used to brand a minority a "sell out" if they're a Republican or conservative. And the more I thought about, he's right.

[Dr. Tom 0]

... black Democrats wouldn't vote for her because many of them would brand her "a traitor" or "really white" or whatever other stereotype that's commonly used to brand a minority a "sell out" if they're a Republican or conservative. And the more I thought about, he's right.

I believe "Uncle Tom" is the term. I heard it bandied about a lot when CLarence Thomas was being nominated and confirmed to the Supreme Court. I blame black leadership for the perception that a successful, intelligent black person is a "sellout" or an "Uncle Tom." CLarence Thomas grew up poor and, thru hard work, determination, and intelligence, got a seat on the Supreme Court. Gee, what a horrible role model someone like that is... Thomas' problem (and Dr. Rice's, too) is that they're conservative blacks, and black leadership like the NAACP, Jesse Jackson, and others, only care about the liberals among their brethren.

[SuperJerk 0]

Out of curiousity, where in the South do you live?

South Carolina.

 

 

I *knew* it!

 

(The SC behind his name might have been a clue.)

 

Thomas' problem (and Dr. Rice's, too) is that they're conservative blacks, and black leadership like the NAACP, Jesse Jackson, and others, only care about the liberals among their brethren.

 

Actually, I'd say they only want to SUPPORT the liberal among their brethren. And why shouldn't they? I hate it when people vote for other people just because they share an ethnicity.

[NoCalMike 0]

while black Democrats wouldn't vote for her because many of them would brand her "a traitor" or "really white"  or whatever other stereotype that's commonly used to brand a minority a "sell out" if they're a Republican or conservative. And the more I thought about, he's right.

Well, maybe also because they would disagree with her on key issues.

I wouldn't vote for Rice for President, and I didn't agree on her being nominated for her current position, but it certainly wasn't because I think Rice is a "uncle tom" or a "sellout" I just don't agree with her on issues.

[NoCalMike 0]

I think it's safe to say a Black candidate would be very hard to elect. There are a lot of backward-thinking people in this country who, durnit, just ain't gon' vote them no darkies into the Whaht House. And no broads, neither, praise Jesus.

 

And I don't think those sentiments are confined to the South, or any other geographic region. I just don't think this country is ready to elect a Black candidate, nor a female one.

You are correct. While outright HATE-type racism is not as prevelent today, there is still quite an abundance of "well they are ok, as long as they aren't in my yard" type racists. For example, people will mention they are not racist, oh until a black or mexican guy tries to date their daughter, then suddenly they get the un-easy "oh no I didn't think MY daughter would" feeling. That is a more refined version of the racism that now exists.

[Guest Brian]

For example, people will mention they are not racist, oh until a black or mexican guy tries to date their daughter, then suddenly they get the un-easy "oh no I didn't think MY daughter would" feeling.

I've been through two of those.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

And I don't think those sentiments are confined to the South, or any other geographic region.

 

Of course racism isn't confined to one region, but anyone who tries to argue that all areas of the country are equally racist is full of shit.

 

1960

 

1968

 

Entire states voted for segregationist candidates, and many of the people who voted in those elections are still alive, and they probably reproduced.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I hate it when people vote for other people just because they share an ethnicity.

Exactly. It's perfectly acceptable to use "I want the black man to win" as rationale for voting for Jesse Jackson (God knows there's really no other legitimate way to explain voting for him), but nobody could EVER say "I voted for the white man because I want a white president."

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I hate it when people vote for other people just because they share an ethnicity.

Exactly. It's perfectly acceptable to use "I want the black man to win" as rationale for voting for Jesse Jackson (God knows there's really no other legitimate way to explain voting for him), but nobody could EVER say "I voted for the white man because I want a white president."

Slightly off topic, but I used to work at a daycare. One day we had all of the kindergarteners sitting waiting to go to the pool and the bus hadn't come yet, so we started quizzing them with various questions about the US and such. One of the questions we asked was, "Can any of you name the President of the US?"

 

A little black kindergartner, AJ, blurted out, "The White Man!"

 

What wisdom from the mouths of babes.

[SuperJerk 0]

I hate it when people vote for other people just because they share an ethnicity.

Exactly. It's perfectly acceptable to use "I want the black man to win" as rationale for voting for Jesse Jackson (God knows there's really no other legitimate way to explain voting for him), but nobody could EVER say "I voted for the white man because I want a white president."

I'm going to assume you mean one is more socially acceptable to say than the other, because I'm certain if the situation ever arose, plenty of people would be saying one or the other (and both would be wrong).

[Guest MikeSC]

If the DNC gets any more moderate, they might as well be Junior Republicans.

 

The main reason someone like Dean has so much support is because a lot of people are getting tired of bland, spineless, dry-as-toast moderates. I know that if I ever listen to another Joe Lieberman speech I'm going to saw my head off with a butter knife.

 

I mean hell, all the DNC chair does is raise money for the party, and the job Dean did in 2004 using just his website would suggest he's more than qualified for the job.

Really?

DEAN'S DEBACLE

Democratic National Committee (DNC) fund raising under the chairmanship of Howard Dean shows a disappointing $16.7 million raised in the first quarter of 2005, compared with $34 million reported by the Republicans.

 

That tends to confirm dire predictions by old-line Democratic fund-raisers of a fall-off in money if Dean became chairman. He had promised to bring in heavy individual contributions, as he did in his 2004 campaign for president. But the DNC in the first quarter received only $13 million from individuals, compared to $31 million for the Republican National Committee (RNC).

 

A footnote: A recent DNC fund-raising appeal promised to send field workers to North Carolina, which does not have a major statewide election until 2008.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentar...-5_7_05_RN.html

Yup, he's raising money like gang-busters.

-=Mike

[Guest Cerebus]

I think when the old guard (tools like Delay) starts to die out, more blacks will find a more welcome home in the Republican party. They already agree with Republicans on things like gay mairrage and education, plus, what good is a party when they think you have them in their pocket? It's already starting to happen, albeit slowly.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

A lot of people think that the stance on gay marriage is driven by homophobia in the black community. For those with poor reading comprehension, it doesn't mean that being against gay marriage is bigotry or homophobic, but rather that the stance is caused by homophobia. It seems like a pretty broad generalization to me.

 

Speaking of generalizations, what is the black community's stance on education.