The SWF's future

[King Cucaracha 0]

Okay, bare with me here because this probably won't be the most popular idea in the history of this company. By quite some way.

 

 

Now...obviously, the SWF isn't in 'crisis' or 'on it's last legs', but it's not at full strength in terms of roster and more importantly active roster. I'm not aware of the inner working of the fed so I don't know what the problem is. But, and here comes the crazy idea...would the SWF work if we became 'pre-determined' like the OAOAST. The vets'll probably remind us of how long the fed has been going in it's current form. But the fact is, we don't have the resources anymore. Sure, if that website ever gets done, we may get a couple more guys joining, but it's not going to matter if the people we've got don't enjoy writing. Anyway, I've been thinking about it and tried to draw up some advantages and dis-advantages and stuff.

 

--Advantages--

 

First off, less workload. Obviously that's the big one. Basically, every match is 'pre-determined' so to speak. Which means instead of four people writing one match...in theory, that one match would be done by one or two people. The finish and storyline developments would be pre-agreed on and that leaves the other two people to do something else should they have the time. And if not...less workload. You know your character's match will be done so there's no danger of a no-show on the show. As long as the person(s) that agree to write do write.

 

With less workload, in theory, that leaves room for more promos to be written. If you read an OAOAST show, it's usually promo central...where-as here, the mentality is 'write your match and then, do maybe one promo every month'. We get better storylines, because people have more time to develop them with promos. In theory.

 

Also, there'd be no word limits, which means (in theory) that guys like Kaine, Dagda and Sly would have the opportunity to be more active. If they didn't want to write matches, no problem. They could promo. Their characters could be used in matches by others. Hell, they don't have to be on the show every week. Where-as now, match writing is what it's all about.

 

With less workload, some of the retired vets would be able to come back and wouldn't have to write every show if they don't feel up to it. Infact, they wouldn't have to write at all. All you'd need is the vet to give permission for his character's use and bingo. Example: I'm sure Chuck could find the time to write Van Siclen stuff every now and then. And then, the rest could be handled by Cortez. Or whoever. And also, it means that Chuck could post the show and have an active competitor on it, unlike now.

 

One thing that could or could not work...like the OAOAST, as we wouldn't be REQUIRED to write every match we're involved in, that means people could have more than one character should they choose. Which means a larger roster without having to find extra writers that simply aren't there. Also, guys like me, Toxx and Max could write a full-time women's division...unlike now, where we could only write Maddix OR Megan, Toxxic OR Jet, Max OR Kelly. This would also improve our tag division, as people could actually have two characters AS a team. Maybe set a limit of like 3 characters so we don't end up with one guy and eight characters.

 

For guys like King and Korgath, if you're writing the match, you KNOW it'll be on the show. The one thing that always frustrated me as an SWF n00b was when I was writing great matches but against opponent I had no real chance of beating, so my stuff would never get shown. No offense meant to the Royal Order. But they're in this situation. They're in a tag division against W&D, Martial Law, Rev0...great writers. Not one of their tag matches has been seen which must be disheartening at times. And it's stuff like this that might eventually convince them to say 'what's the point' and quit.

 

As for the competitive nature of the fed, it's still fairly competitive in the OAOAST...in a different way. Over there, people KNOW their stuff is being read and it keeps everyone active. Match quality needn't suffer.

 

And with this format, it's more likely that the OAOAST guys that have time might decide to create an SWF character. Where-as now, only the brave (Martial Law) do it. We could pheasably have a 'working arrangement' with the OAOAST, without actually working with them so to speak. That way, we have more contact with each other and in theory the OAOAST guys would read our shows more often and vice versa.

 

--Dis Advantages--

 

Obviously, it goes against the 'history of the fed'. Of course, we need to think more of the future than history. But I realise it goes against what this place was built on. Change can be tough sometimes and it's 5 years of history we'd be losing (in some ways). But it needn't be a drastic change. We needn't loose our lineage. We needn't do one show a week like the OAOAST. We needn't BECOME the OAOAST. Infact, looking back over it, becoming a hybrid of 'shoot' (SWF now) and 'pre-determined' (OAOAST now) wouldn't be that drastic of a change. PPVs could be 'competitive' like they are now. The Tag, ICTV, USJL, Hardcore, Womens and Cruiser belts could pre-determined as habit. But World Title matches could still be marked, still have word limits, still be a 'competition'. To keep only the best writers as World Champion. And also, other important title matches (or any matches for that matter) could easily have a marker should those involved be up for it. It'd be a case of for example Wildchild and Spike agreeing on a word limit, agreeing on when, where and what like any match...and then, asking someone to act as marker. Like Ace or Chuck.

 

This idea will need people to give a damn. If you want your character to have matches on shows, we'd have to organise them ourselves between us...rather than simply writing a bunch of matches, waiting for the PPV, seeing what CC comes up with, writing another match, etc etc. People are too reliant on bookers atm.

 

Also, most importantly, it NEEDS co-operation. If people are selfish over being champion or their win-loss record, it simply isn't going to work. So obviously, it'll mean win-loss records becoming less important.

 

 

I think it'd work. Infact, I can't see it doing anything other than helping.

 

The fact is, the way we work now is obviously not working for some people. CC aren't up for this? Fine, no problem. It's just an idea. I do think something needs to be done though. Otherwise, the small problems are only going to grow. Guys like King and Korgath are going to tire of being tag division whipping boys. A lot more guys are going to 'retire' a lot quicker (Johnny). Hell, even I've been thinking about swapping characters around because right now, the stuff I want to do with Maddix would be easier and sadly a lot more fun to do in the OAOAST (and would get more feedback).

 

Anyway, that was my rambling. No doubt no-one'll agree with me, this'll all be forgotten and we'll go right back to normal again until things are a lot bleaker than they are now. But, whatever. Comment away.

[Dace59 0]

"DaceNight: yeah, we need to start having people join part time, like indies

 

DaceNight: at least one show per three. If you hold a belt and are part time,

you must defend every show you are on plus make promos or segments for other shows. A World Champ must be full time

 

DaceNight: so like, people dont wrestle every show, but they can be seen backstage etc"

 

I was talking to Janus about such things just now. As for this OAOAST idea..hmmmm....

[Golgo 13 0]

In a word... no. I dislike the idea. There's no reason for another OAOAST, as slightly different as it would be. They and the SWF both have their own unique ideologies and identities, enough to set them apart from each other and the other feds out there. As much as the SWF's roots and lineage would remain intact, one would be all too similar to the other.

 

As you said, we're not in a crisis just yet. Really, the roster hasn't been at 'full strength' in a long, long time, but we always endured and have shown flashes of our old selves at times. As mentioned by someone... somewhere, on chat or the boards, I forget which, we've simply reached a plateau on TSM. We've honestly leeched all the resources and members we can from them, and of course, it doesn't help that we aren't advertised anywhere to my knowledge. The site would help with that, and once we have it, it will be easier to get our name out there.

 

With all that said, there's never been anything that says we can't co-op and determine winners amongst ourselves. It's been done multiple times. We've just become so accustomed to the traditional way, as well as egos being involved, along with a lack of community and communication, that it isn't more widely practiced. There's no reason why something like this can't remain intact, I'd just prefer it not be an official edict, as long as we establish that it can be done if needed.

[muzz 0]

You know the fed's in crisis mode when I'm champion.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

Definitely against becoming more RP-based, and not overly enamored with the idea of writers having more than one character. That said, Maddix, I appreciate the time and effort you put into thinking about potential solutions to the current state of the fed; wish I had time to give it some thought myself.

[Ace309 0]

That's a nice list and all.

 

But then we wouldn't be the SWF.

 

Personally, I hate the idea and would no longer be interested in the fed.

[Ace309 0]

It strikes me that the above may be so blunt as to be useless for discussion.

 

One of the reasons I enjoy being involved in the fed is because there's actual competition involved. Despite the fact that there will always be concerns of bias, I also like that generally, when you mark you're rewarding a match that's just objectively better. My SWF 'push' was incredibly rewarding because I was responsible for it, and if someone didn't want to job to me, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. I took and took on the way up, and I can't imagine that I'd have found a string of opponents willing to give and give. I could, because I was damn good.

 

If the model of the fed is unviable, then the model is unviable. I don't see any reason to compromise absent overwhelming opinion on the part of the writers.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

And I'm not even as popular as Tom is; there's no chance I would have found eight guys willing to job to me during my run with the Hardcore title, so consider this another vote for competition.

[Dace59 0]

Indeed, competition works so well and it's made people produce some amazing writing as well.

 

No way would we have had something like JnR's massive tag title run if it was pre booked and certainly wouldn't have had me and Card writing for our lives to win and the massive rush of being the ones to finally take them down.

[Toxxic 0]

I am 100% dead against this. The entire thing that made the SWF appeal to me when Dace first told me about it was that it was 'competitive' match-writing, that your progress was based on what YOU wrote in terms of wrestling matches. It makes it unique, as far as I'm aware. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I can be overly protective of my winning streak, to the point where Toxxic the character goes apeshit on people when he loses. But this is partly because that's how the character evolved. I've made no secret of the fact that when I retire Toxxic I will still be here as a 'fun' character, one with whom I am quite happy to always get SOMETHING in, but not be bothered about if I win or lose.

 

There's no reason for win/loss records to matter in the SWF. If you want to go through a give and take feud with someone, plan it with them. You can make it as pre-programmed as you want, all it takes is you working together. But without the nature of the SWF, you wouldn't have got Tom's rise. You wouldn't have got my rise (and yes I am arguing that as a positive!). You wouldn't get the truly remarkable occurences that we see every now and again when someone pulls out something special.

 

There's no reason why people can't work together and go 'well I'll win that match, then you win that match to set the rubber match up at the PPV' and so forth.But the main competitive theme should not go. And if it does, then I'd have to say I'd be going with it.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Hmm.

 

Well, there ya go. As I say, this was just a thought I had last night. I figured it'd make more sense to put it out there, rather than thinking about it and then dismissing it.

 

Anyway, rebuttal wise, everybody keeps talking of the competitive nature of the fed. I just hope we get all these new writers who everybody keeps either a) talking about or b) waiting to appear from whever exactly they're going to find this place, and soon. Because right now, 'competitive' is kinda a misleading word, considering we had to drop...what, two matches off the card on the last show because nobody wrote? And how many of the actual matches were won by no-show?

[Justice 0]

First thoughts:

 

Predetermination would kill what this fed is. Sorry, I'm all cool with the OAOAST, but it would really just kill what everything this place was or is. I think that, in all honesty, this would only decrease participation as people wouldn't be required to do anything. The whole lack of participation really started back when "Oh, I don't need to show because this guy is gonna include all the storyline stuff in his match". I don't think making that the chosen system will help us anymore. The thing I always loved was when some kid gave it his all and beat someone completely out of nowhere.

 

I also think that we've had our own problems with politics in the past, and I think that a predetermined style will only increase calls of 'politics'. We need something at least, idealogically based on something that isn't based on anything other than skill. I think matches are the best way for this.

 

It was nailed up there in Manson's post: We've dried up the TSM pool. We should stay here, but we seriously need to develop another presence on another board so we can start drawing in more and more people again.

 

Another thing is, and I hope that I'll be a bit more active, is maybe CC taking the initiative and just pushing people into feuds or at least giving them a storyline to run with for a little bit.

[Ace309 0]

Anyway, rebuttal wise, everybody keeps talking of the competitive nature of the fed. I just hope we get all these new writers who everybody keeps either a) talking about or b) waiting to appear from whever exactly they're going to find this place, and soon. Because right now, 'competitive' is kinda a misleading word, considering we had to drop...what, two matches off the card on the last show because nobody wrote? And how many of the actual matches were won by no-show?

If the fed dies because its model is nonviable, then it will have had a good run and died after a valiant effort to stay alive.

 

If, on the other hand, people want to do a predetermined angle that works outside the parameters of the SWF's style, they can join OAOAST. There's a reason I didn't - I don't enjoy the style. I find the predetermination takes the shine off things and the fun out of it.

 

It's like if someone said we should go straight to RP quality and have CC write the matches, like many other feds do. It's such a radical change that it takes away from what makes the SWF what it is, and the SWF is what I'm interested in participating in.

[Ace309 0]

This idea will need people to give a damn. If you want your character to have matches on shows, we'd have to organise them ourselves between us...rather than simply writing a bunch of matches, waiting for the PPV, seeing what CC comes up with, writing another match, etc etc. People are too reliant on bookers atm.

 

You know, I do the best I can with what I have. When people don't care enough about their characters to give me any guidance as to how they'd like to be booked, I just try to give them interesting opponents and keep them from seeing the same person too often.

 

If someone's getting bored, that's a problem. It's a problem we're trying to fix by clearly differentiating the contenders for a given belt, but there's no reason people should feel as if they're resigned to the bookers' whims, even on free-TV shows. Want to do something? Tell me, for god's sake.

[Chuck Woolery 0]

If someone's getting bored, that's a problem. It's a problem we're trying to fix by clearly differentiating the contenders for a given belt, but there's no reason people should feel as if they're resigned to the bookers' whims, even on free-TV shows. Want to do something? Tell me, for god's sake.

Or, you know, me.

 

Also, Landon, I appreciate the thought but I don't think MVS is ever going to be used in the SWF again, whether I want to or not. I was too happy with the last Hollywood Boulevard run to possibly tarnish that by bringing him back.

[the.weej 0]

Although not directly related to the idea that Maddix proposed, I'm still confident that about 90% of our problems regarding the roster and the apathy from TSM would be solved if we could actually get a fucking website established, and mean it.

 

It's unfortunate that none of the people who have designed or updated websites in the past share this belief.

 

-Z

[Secret Agent 0]

Fine, Z. I'll give away my reason for not writting much since CF.

 

Website

 

It's not entirely ready so remember that when you start clicking links that go nowhere. I've had to rewrite quite a bit of the database and coding, but It was to be ready by the next Smarkdown.

[Toxxic 0]

If someone's getting bored, that's a problem. It's a problem we're trying to fix by clearly differentiating the contenders for a given belt, but there's no reason people should feel as if they're resigned to the bookers' whims, even on free-TV shows. Want to do something? Tell me, for god's sake.

Exactly. I used to PM match requests to Thoth and TNT all the time. This was mainly because I'm an anally-retarded perfectionist with no tolerance for the failings of others and I found that of the three CC members around at the time, only Zed had any common sense, but still, the method applies. Work out what you want to do, then ask people to do it with you. Don't wait and see what you get, then complain about it.

 

Oh, and Johnny? You officially rock. Or you will do very soon, anyway.

[Angel_Grace_Blue 0]

*staggers out from behind the Mists of Time*

 

Eh, we've had mega-depleted rosters before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOW TESTIFY!!

[King Cucaracha 0]

You know, having the website is great. But where exactly are we planning to, you know, put it? If the only place people know about it is TSM, it kinda defeats the object.

 

I'd suggest maybe asking Dames to put something on the main page. After all, we're part of his site. And, we pay to be here, don't we?/

[Golgo 13 0]

We pay for hosting on the forums and that's basically it. Besides the space we have at swf.thesmartmarks.com, which no longer serves much use being outdated and incompatable with the new site, all we have is the link on their main page. Getting that updated to link to the new site is basically the first priority.

 

Along with that, we just need to get out to other wrestling forums, e-fed toplists, groupings, and whatever else, and post.

[the.weej 0]

Manson got it. Topsites. We do a banner exchange with as many topsites as we can find. This will almost certainly secure a new a new influx of talent -- for the most part, it's probably going to be pretty crappy talent, but there's bound to be some diamonds in the rough somewhere.

 

The site basically just opens up more legitimate advertising possibilities.

 

-Z

[chirs3 0]

Pretty much everything I would've said has been said, as far as Predetermination = Bad, so I'll just use this space to say the site that Johnny's putting together is pretty damn cool so far. Great job.

 

As far as advertising goes, Z's got the right idea with the banner exchange. And if most of it is crappy talent, there's still a silver lining - more "Tool of the Year" nominees when the awards show rolls around. Especially if one of them pulls a TokyoX.

 

Don't mind this, just testing something.

Edited February 18, 2005 by chirs3

[Angel_Grace_Blue 0]

Oh, and in response to Maddix mentioning lack of promos, depending on how much more insane I become, I might put together a Promo Mad Libs. Those are still cool, right?

 

Just imagine Toxx standing in the ring shouting to the fans, "You stupid (crab apples)" and we can all marvel at his vast knowledge of nouns, adverbs, and the like.

[Secret Agent 0]

Well as far as advertising and so forth goes. I've been in contact with one of those interfeds like that Empire place we dealt with previosuly, only I think this one is a little better. They have all the weekly rankings for feds and shows, and I think like before, we could pretty much own the rest on the show department so long as everyone puts in the effort. Go to their forums and post on there too, that gets your name out.

 

It's X-Net Wrestling, and they've asked that the SWF signs up with them.

 

For topsites: we can do some but I don't want a ton of banner exchanges going if they have to be on the front page. We just need to register with the top "topsites" listed on Google and have everyone click the hell out of the links.

 

The list I have compiled so far that we need to register with are...

 

www.efedproductions.com

www.roughkut.com

www.projectefed.com(whenever they get their shit back together on this one.)

 

Also listing us with Yahoo in their directory and on their site, as well as every other search engine I can find. Hopefully I tagged the site good enough that we can grab a top listing in Google.

 

Any other suggestions for top sotes or link exchanges, feel free to tell me.

[Golgo 13 0]

http://www.rspwf.net/default.cfm

 

The rec.sports.pro.wrestling.fantasy fed directory.