Vyce 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I'm actually quite happy about this. I think the WWE should consider a Rockers tag title run (because honestly, the tag division is a wasteland, and a Rockers run would liven things up a bit, if only briefly), but if Marty's fate is to become a Heat worker, is that really so bad? The guy looks to have gotten himself into shape and did pretty good work in the ring from what I saw this past week. I wouldn't mind watching him work matches on Heat against guys like Richards, or Venis, or Simon Dean, etc., as they'd likely be pretty decent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Young 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I think this is really cool. I unfortunately missed the Smackdown match (anybody know where I can download that?) but Marty looked great on Raw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UseTheSledgehammerUh 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 You can watch the end of it at wwe.com. Go to the Smackdown! report. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justcoz 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Yeah, he knows how to work a quality match, and he's a fun novelty for longtime fans, but just a month or two ago, this guy was working matches at Laura's Roller Skating Emporium in Painesville, Ohio (and no, I'm not making that up). Right, which is all the more reason that I was impressed by how good he looked on Raw and Smackdown. Most older stars that work bottom of the barrell indie shows tend to look like Jake Roberts. Marty obviously keeps in shape and still takes pride in his ring work which is the reason that WWE is giving him another shot. Unfortunately, I think they are dropping the ball by putting him on Raw. He'd be of more use on Smackdown, maybe even dropping down to a cruiserweight and working against guys like Rey, Chavo, London, Juvi, Psychosis, etc. If he's going to be used to put guys over, let's see him putting over guys he can work a good match with rather than bumping for Snitsky and Tyson Tomko. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I sure hope this does NOT mean he's going to be involved in the WM match... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I sure hope this does NOT mean he's going to be involved in the WM match... If he is on Mania...maybe that will be Hassan's opponent... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shadow Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I'm betting Marty has a backstage spot @ Mania where he is *yet* not a roster member and is a invited guest of Shawn. I really want to see a rocker run, no senseless instant heel turn by Marty. I'd have Shawn go over clean and Marty be the first guy backstage to congratulate him. next night have Rockers reunite in FULL gear. (it cant take that long to re-create those true oldschool gear for the 2). and have them win the titles @ Backlash over Regal/Tajiri (forget hot shoting the titles to Le Rez). and have Edge and Christian Vs Rockers 2/3 Falls match on Raw before they do the draft and have shawn drop the ball and lose the match and gets drafted to Smackdown. and then Marty manages to get sent to Smackdown instead and assumes that he and shawn would resume tagging and shawn politely declines, saying he wants to make a big impact on Smackdown. Marty says fine and finds Paul London and they team but not as Rockers 2.O or anything. Just Paul London and Marty Jannetty. Shawn takes notice and starts "mentoring" paul. upseting Marty. Paul starts invoking HBKisms into his attitude and work(more so then already) and thus upsets Marty and Marty "accidently" costs HBK in his match against JBL on a smackdown and Marty "apoligizes" and this leads to a Marty Vs Shawn match where Paul London wanting to fully emulate his idol throws Marty through a glass window and then BOOM~! Superkicks Shawn as a "You are the past, Im the now" type angle. In reality? A 3 week week rocker reign and that fruitful title reign comes there, marty loses it and shawn ends the relationship by leaving to Smackdown. Marty stays on Raw and is JTTS/HEAT boy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notJames 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Colour me still one of the unimpressed. How you guys ride this wave of nostalgia so far is beyond me. If this means guys who desperately need the TV time like the Hurricane, La Res etc. have to job to Jannetty now, then I'm sure glad I don't watch Heat. Don't even get me started on how they waste RAW's Tag Team champs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 no one likes the Hurricane and those other guys though, that's the difference here...you guys really need to let go of that pipe dream...those guys are never going to be over...not as over as you'd like, anyway...Jannetty has history and association on his side... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shadow Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Colour me still one of the unimpressed. How you guys ride this wave of nostalgia so far is beyond me. If this means guys who desperately need the TV time like the Hurricane, La Res etc. have to job to Jannetty now, then I'm sure glad I don't watch Heat. Don't even get me started on how they waste RAW's Tag Team champs? first of all; maybe you should learn who the champs are. They aren't Le Rez believe it or not. Second of all, Hurricane's EASILY the most over-rated performer on the roster. HANDS DOWN. Helm's attitude problem doesnt help his case either. Wave of Nostalgia? maybe for Raw but on Smackdown he clearly showed he was a step ahead of alot of wrestlers out there today and it wasn't angle's doing because that one of angle biggest downfalls, inability to carry. Thats what the overall majority of us are basing our statisfaction off of, that he had a fantastic match and proved he wanted something while most wrestlers today seem to half-ass it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Colour me still one of the unimpressed. How you guys ride this wave of nostalgia so far is beyond me. If this means guys who desperately need the TV time like the Hurricane, La Res etc. have to job to Jannetty now, then I'm sure glad I don't watch Heat. Don't even get me started on how they waste RAW's Tag Team champs? first of all; maybe you should learn who the champs are. They aren't Le Rez believe it or not. He never said they were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gWIL 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I think Marty should be on SD and maybe have a fued against Orlando Jordan for the US title and have Michaels end up on SD after the draft and then reform the Rockers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Given the tag division.. in two months.. YOUR NEW TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS...THE ROCKERS!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Marty Jannetty has a couple advantages over the Hurricane and those other jobbers: 1. He is over. 2. He has tons of exprience wrestling. 3. He is a good wrestler. 4. Most importantly, he is alive and in working condition. Think of all the wrestlers who have passed away or have wrecked their bodies. This is like a what if situation. When Shawn Michaels could not wrestle anymore in 1998, people would think what if he could wrestle again. He got to wrestle HHH, Edge, and Jericho. This is the same situation. What if the Rockers could wrestle E&C, The Dudleys, and you know those guys... um yeah. Anyway, he did a good job wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shadow Report post Posted March 21, 2005 in two months? More like in 2 weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Great signing. I can see it now.... Marty Jannetty pinning HHH on RAW holding the World title high.... ...hey, I can dream. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaosrage 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Fuck yes. And thank god he's on RAW so I don't have to sit through Smackdown every week. Colour me still one of the unimpressed. How you guys ride this wave of nostalgia so far is beyond me. If this means guys who desperately need the TV time like the Hurricane, La Res etc. have to job to Jannetty now, then I'm sure glad I don't watch Heat. Well since Jannetty is much better than them, it makes perfect sense to me that they have to job to him now. I'm hoping a friendship with Shawn can keep him on Raw and get him a better run than Mr Perfect had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Age 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 no one likes the Hurricane and those other guys though, that's the difference here...you guys really need to let go of that pipe dream...those guys are never going to be over...not as over as you'd like, anyway...Jannetty has history and association on his side... Yeah, I must have imagined Hurricane's run with the Rock in 2003. Or when he was one of the most over babyfaces on SD in 2002. I must have been living in a fantasy world or something. And how do you know those guys are never going to be over if you don' actual, ya know, give them a chance to get over? Regal, Tajiri, Val Venis and Hurricane (aka The Heat Guys) have all been really, really over at one point or another. And, despite the fact that other people would tell you otherwise, most of the Heat wrestlers ARE actually better than Jannetty, by quite a bit too. What guys do you refer to? I want some names. Prove to me that they were never over. Nobody is asking anyone to push these guys as the top dogs in the company, but I GUARANTEE, put any of the regular Heat wrestlers in a 20 minute match against Angle, book them to look strong and competent and they'll get as much heat as Jannetty did on SD. Well since Jannetty is much better than them, it makes perfect sense to me that they have to job to him now. I'm hoping a friendship with Shawn can keep him on Raw and get him a better run than Mr Perfect had. How is Jannetty better than them? Are you telling me that Marty Jannetty is better than William Regal and Tajiri? Don't make me laugh. He is not, nor has he ever been. At this moment in time, Val Venis is better than him as well, and maybe Helms. Even Conway. Throw in Richards as well. The fact is, everyone is going off on how good Jannetty is because they got to see him in a strong, 20 minute match. When was the last time those guys were given a chance in that sort of environment? Marty Jannetty has a couple advantages over the Hurricane and those other jobbers: 1. He is over. All of those "jobbers" were really over at one point, too - until the company cut their legs off. In fact, it's shocking that they're still as over as they are, all things considered. Janetty is over because he was made to seem important. Treat the other guys the same, and they will be over. 2. He has tons of exprience wrestling. Nevermind that Tajiri and Venis have been wrestling about 10 years or so. Regal even longer. Richards approaching that amount of time. And what does experience have to do with it? Brock Lesnar doesn't have a whole lot of experience, and he's better than most wrestlers in the company. On the other hand, Viscera has a ton of experience, and he's terrible. 3. He is a good wrestler. I wouldn't call him a good wrestler based on one match with Kurt Angle. He WAS a good wrestler, yes. Is he still? We'll find out. BUT.... Regal's better than him. Tajiri's better than him. Venis is better than him. Conway is better than him. Most of the Heat jobbers are better than Marty Jannetty. 4. Most importantly, he is alive and in working condition. As opposed to being dead like Hurricane, huh? Second of all, Hurricane's EASILY the most over-rated performer on the roster. HANDS DOWN. Helm's attitude problem doesnt help his case either. Oh well that just seals it then. Hurricane's the most over-rated? No argument. You've just said it, so IT MUST BE TRUE! Hurricane isn't as good as some people make him out to be, but he's a more than capable wrestler..... but you didn't say wrestler, you said performer. In that case, he's one of the most underrated performers on the roster. He always manages to get over, despite being given nothing. With a roster full of Helmesleys, Takers, Michaels, Hollys and so on.... I really don't think Hurricane's attitude matters much at all. Wave of Nostalgia? maybe for Raw but on Smackdown he clearly showed he was a step ahead of alot of wrestlers out there today and it wasn't angle's doing because that one of angle biggest downfalls, inability to carry. Thats what the overall majority of us are basing our statisfaction off of, that he had a fantastic match and proved he wanted something while most wrestlers today seem to half-ass it. If there was anything he proved, it was that he was still an OK wrestler. He hardly proved that he was better than a lot of wrestlers, simply because he isn't. Like I said, put Val Venis in that match. It would be better. Put Tajiri in there. It would be better. You're basing off the fact that Jannetty had the chance to perform a twenty minute match with a top star. None of those guys get that chance, so you don't see what they can do. I don't see what Angle's carrying ability has to do with anything, but I'm sure you just threw that little comment in because you heard someone else say it. It wasn't a fantastic match. Angle-Cena beats them both. No it doesn't. It really doesn't. It was probably better than Angle/Jannetty, but Angle/Rey? No way. Angle/JBL LMS was better than Angle/Cena and Angle/Jannetty, but Angle/Rey is the SDTVMOTY so far. Oh, and BTW, Angle/Cena was on PPV, when I was merely talking about TV matches. For the record, I actually enjoyed the Angle/MJ match and I wish Marty the best of luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Hurricane, Rosey, Stevie Richards, Rhyno, Tajiri, Val Venis...all those guys have had chances in the spotlight to shine and haven't been able to do it...they're done...finished...jobbers for life...a good wrestler/performer will turn shit into gold as Mick Foley, Triple H, Rock and Steve Austin have all done... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Age 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 all those guys have had chances in the spotlight to shine and haven't been able to do it Hurricane Oh right. Like when Helms was really, really over in 03, but had his push killed by Triple H, just like everyone else? Yeah he couldn't do it. Or was it, he wasn't allowed to do it? He was a threat. They killed him, just like every other threat. Rosey When did HE get a chance in the spotlight? He's always been treated as a jobber, in 3MW, with Hurricane, with Mack, etc. How about giving Hurricane and Rosey an angle. Not in the main event, that would be silly. Just a nice little midcard angle, with some superhero craziness and antics. Let them develop their characters, win the tag titles or whatever. Then we'll talk about these two. Stevie Richards Again, when did he ever mean anything? His highest position on the card? A low end midcarder as the leader of the awful RTC. His character has a lot of potential, but we know hardly anything about him. He's a great bumper and seller, too. They haven't ever given Stevie the chance - he's always been treated as a joke. Rhyno In 2001, Rhyno was HOT. I mean, he was going to be big. His push ran out of steam, as the dreaded "glass ceiling" stood in his way of the main event. When he returned, he was on Velocity within 6 weeks. Since then, he's been treated as a jobber. How can you even argue that Rhyno's been given a chance? He had the legs cut off him, like everyone else. He's still really over for a Heat guy who hardly wrestles on Raw. Tajiri Tajiri has always been really over. In 2001 as a babyface. 2002 as a heel. 2003 as both. 2004 when he moved to Raw. Tajiri ALWAYS manages to get himself over. He's also really good. He had something special going with both Eddie and Rey in 2003, and what did they do? Absolutely nothing, and, thus, he meant nothing. Val Venis In 99, he was really over, and was doing a great job in TV matches with Austin and Rock. Two months later? Nobody knows if he's a face or heel, he's feuding for the European title and facing the midcarders again. Geat job, WWE! they're done...finished...jobbers for life It's this mentality that has put the company in the position that it's in. a good wrestler/performer will turn shit into gold as Mick Foley, Triple H, Rock and Steve Austin have all done... Tell me when any of those guys were put in the position of an Austin, Rock or Foley? It's thanks to each of those wrestlers, and them alone, that they're even remotely over. It's no thanks to WWE. And Triple H didn't turn any shit in to gold. He was given the God push, and they were absolutely determined that he'd become a main eventer, even if it killed them. They could have put Val Venis in Triple H's spot in 1999, and the company would be no worse right now. Tell me, why can't they give anyone the push that they gave Triple H in 99? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Triple H is responsible for turning his character around...he began cutting great promos, really stepped up his ringwork between 2000 and 2001...god push or not, HE'S the one that made his character great... I understand that Val and Hurricane are great workers, but they really do not have the stuff to be at the spot you feel they should be in...be honest with yourself here...you really WANT to see the freaking Hurricane in main events...you'd pay 30 bucks to see a Val Venis/Triple H fued? EDIT: I, personally have enjoyed the WWE since WM 20...I was very spotty with my wrestling watching between Invasion 2001 and that point...although we do have Triple H overexposure, I will admit to that, I still think he's one of the best out there right now, so I can deal...hell I almost entirely stopped watching Smackdown during that timeframe and now I watch it every week... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ransome Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Triple H is responsible for turning his character around...he began cutting great promos, really stepped up his ringwork between 2000 and 2001...god push or not, HE'S the one that made his character great... I understand that Val and Hurricane are great workers, but they really do not have the stuff to be at the spot you feel they should be in...be honest with yourself here...you really WANT to see the freaking Hurricane in main events...you'd pay 30 bucks to see a Val Venis/Triple H fued? Man, Dark Age made some good points and you dodged them all. If WWE has proved anything over the past year, it's that anyone at all can be made into a credible superstar when given enough time, regardless of win/loss records, mic skills, wrestling skills, or whatever; it's all in the handling. I can't believe the shortsightedness of trashing today's wrestlers cause they'll never be "over" while exempting Marty Jannetty cause he has "history and association on his side". I guess some people prefer to look at the past through rose-colour spectacles... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I would say that's all a matter of perspective...and I didn't dodge his points, I lumped it into one general statement using Hurricane and Val Venis as overall examples... If you read other posts on the Jannetty matter that I've made, I do not at all say he should be getting a mega-push...in fact I said it should be a one and done deal with him...one last good match with HBK and then call it quits...history and association is what's putting him over with the crowd over guys like Hurricane and Val Venis... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Age 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Triple H is responsible for turning his character around...he began cutting great promos, really stepped up his ringwork between 2000 and 2001...god push or not, HE'S the one that made his character great... After he was pushed. My argument isn't about Triple H though. Triple H is not a great wrestler. He's not bad either. The same could be said of Val Venis. IF, and a big if, they gave Val the push that Trips had in 99, I believe HE would have stepped up in the ring, cut better promos, etc. It's like when people write guys like RVD off as "not being draws". How do we know when they haven't been given the chance? You can't write off these guys as guys who'll never get over when they've never been given the chance to get over. I don't think Trips was the one who turned his character around. He would have never had the chance to if he never got the God push. Plus, his ringwork improved because he worked with better wrestlers. Let Val, Helms and Rhyno work with other, top tier wrestlers in 20 minute matches and you'll a distinct improvement in their work - due to the fact that they are getting a chance to show what they can do. You can't get over, or show how good you are, working in 5 minute Heat matches against no-name jobbers. I understand that Val and Hurricane are great workers, but they really do not have the stuff to be at the spot you feel they should be in...be honest with yourself here...you really WANT to see the freaking Hurricane in main events...you'd pay 30 bucks to see a Val Venis/Triple H fued? I don't think they're great wrestlers. Hardly anyone is. I just think they're better than the position they are in. Triple H really isn't better than Val Venis. I'm not asking for Val Venis and Hurricane to be main eventers. I want to see the CURRENT mid carders/upper mid carders as the main eventers. Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Booker, Rey, Kane, etc. Guys who should have been the main event 3 or 4 years ago. What I want is for Val, Rhyno, Tajiri, etc to fill out the IC and US title divisions. Can you honestly say that filling the midcard with Orlando, Snitsky, Heidenreich, Jindrak, etc is better than using the "Heat Jobbers"? All of the Heat guys would be far more over, they're better wrestlers and they have more potential. In 1997, could you see yourself paying 30 bucks to see Rock? Or Hunter Hearst Helmsley? If the company really, really got behind someone like Val Venis, could he be a draw? Who knows, but it isn't out of the question. I, personally have enjoyed the WWE since WM 20...I was very spotty with my wrestling watching between Invasion 2001 and that point...although we do have Triple H overexposure, I will admit to that, I still think he's one of the best out there right now, so I can deal...hell I almost entirely stopped watching Smackdown during that timeframe and now I watch it every week... Triple H really isn't any good. He's a solid wrestler. But there are way better wrestlers in the company. I know it's been beat in to the ground a lot, but Triple H really IS the reason that WWE is in the position that it's in. Not the only reason, mind you, but the biggest reason. He's a cancer. I could stand him to an extent if he was a great wrestler. But he isn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I definently see things from your point of view...but in 1999, when Triple H's god push, as you call it, began, who else really was there besides the Rock and Foley? 1999 was a god awful year so they decided to make Triple H step up to the plate...he took full advantage of it and became a star...the reluctance with Val was because he simply wasn't catching on the way they wanted him too, so he failed in step one...they never went to step two with him (full push) because step one never happened... I agree with the RVD thing, the WWE certainly DID screw that one up, but who knows, perhaps when he comes back they'll try it again with him.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Age 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 They tried with a ton of guys in 99, some of whom didn't catch on the way they'd like. Billy Gunn, Jeff Jarrett, Val Venis, etc were all given decent pushes. However, none of them were given the push that H was. None of them were put over every big star, given the World Title, made THE top star. Was Triple H 'World Title' over when he won the belt? No, he got over AS champion, once they put him over every guy in the company. They could have done the same with any of the others. Not that I'm saying Billy Gunn, should have been chamo, but still..... Also, they could have had Jericho take Triple H's spot when he debuted in 99, and they'd be in a far better position for it. What was step one for Val Venis? Get over to a man event level? He never did, but then. he was never made to look like a main event superstar, and he was getting close to that level. Triple H wasn't that over (not much more than Val) yet still they moved on to step two, as you say, made him a main eventer and the rest is history. The window of opportunity is gone with RVD. They COULD make him a main eventer, but they could do a lot of things. They won't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 well, again I have to chalk it up to perspective on Triple H, yours vs. mine...I forgot about Jericho, good call on that one...perhaps the fact that he wasn't at main event level in WCW when he jumped over is the cause of that...and yeah, unfortunantly the RVD ship has sailed, I'd imagine... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LooneyTune Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Edit: Read wrong name. My bad... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justcoz 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 Hurricane, Rosey, Stevie Richards, Rhyno, Tajiri, Val Venis...all those guys have had chances in the spotlight to shine and haven't been able to do it...they're done...finished...jobbers for life...a good wrestler/performer will turn shit into gold as Mick Foley, Triple H, Rock and Steve Austin have all done... I really disagree here. That whole statement sounds like something that would come from a HHH interview in response to being criticized for holding people down. A good wrestler/performer may be able to turn shit into gold, like you said, but it doesn't help when you have a creative team that fumbles the gold right back into the toilet and flushes it. The bits between Hurricane and The Rock were classic and Hurricane got over from interacting with The Rock. The Rock recognized this and jobbed to Hurricane only for HHH to squash him shortly afterwards and Hurricane return to a Heat level gimmick performer. I've said this before, they have a comic book super hero gimmick and not once has Gerwitz, the comic book geek, came up with an arch nemesis heel foe. It could have been Nova. Remember when they were even teasing a heel turn for Hurricane before creative suddenly forgot they were doing that? The Hurricane gimmick still sales merchandise but if creative isn't going to be creative with the gimmick then it's wasting Helms who would be better off without the gimmick, on Smackdown, in the CW division. Steven Richards was over in the RTC and was about as passionate as a performer that they had on their roster. His ring work was decent enough despite being plagued by injuries. When they disbanded RTC, he was forgotten. He still managed to keep himself over to a point with the Stevie Night Heat gimmick before Stephanie decided to watch Heat and get upset with it. The combination of him and heel Victoria was over to a degree and inexplicably broken up. He was getting pops and Stevie chants when he was showing up in drag but that ended in him getting squashed by Tyson Tomko and being blamed for the awful match. Tajiri has been over very much at certain points only to be jobbed out. He's one of the best performers in the company when it comes to backstage segments. Rhyno was over pretty big during the Invasion angle and when he returned from his neck injury, again only to be jobbed out and treated as an after thought. Val Venis was working hard with the Chief Morely gimmick and then they decided to get lazy and go back to the old stand-by, Hello Ladies, porn star thing and guess what... it's not 1998 anymore. I'm not saying the above mentioned talent do not have weaknesses. It's obvious that there were holes in creative that hurt any progression that could have existed towards making them stars. There was also more freedom in character development when Rock, Austin, Foley and HHH got over and none of them were ever jobbed out, reduced to the B-show or treated as an after thought with the exception of HHH's Clique punishment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Lushus 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2005 I've just never viewed these guys as main event caliber...but that's just me...even when they were at their peaks...Jannetty certainly isn't at the level either... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
