Some interesting Survivor Series 1997 stuff

[Jericholic82 0]

I'm glad shawn didnt wrestle bret at wm 13 instead we got on of the all time classic matches and moments. And it led to the sudden rise by Austin so it's all good.

 

I think we should just stop debating this cuz it happened 7 and a half years ago.

[Precious Roy 0]

do you remember the show when raw finally beat nitro? It was the night Austin challenged vince to a match with one arm tied behind his back. If the Evil Mr Mcmahon never came about, would they have broken the streak?

IMO yes, as Austin was redhot regardless, and WCW was becoming a mess of nonsensical booking and politics....

 

But even Vince admits that he didn't see the Mr. McMahon character coming, so using that as justification for Montreal doesn't fly

[Jericholic82 0]

do you remember the show when raw finally beat nitro? It was the night Austin challenged vince to a match with one arm tied behind his back.  If the Evil Mr Mcmahon never came about, would they have broken the streak?

IMO yes, as Austin was redhot regardless, and WCW was becoming a mess of nonsensical booking and politics....

 

But even Vince admits that he didn't see the Mr. McMahon character coming, so using that as justification for Montreal doesn't fly

Im not using it as justification ,its just funny and/or weird how it worked out.

[Si82 0]

Bret and Canada already won Canadian Stampede, the flag match on Raw, the flag match at Bad Blood. Bret made the Patriot submit clean at Ground Zero, beat Austin every time they faced each other, and got the world title from the Undertaker at Summerslam.

Bret won becuase he was in the middle of a push and, for a few months during that push, was the WWF champion. But why should the champion win matches and cleanly at that? They should all be screwy finishes I suppose.

 

As for Austin, Bret did not beat Austin every time they faced each other. Austin beat Bret by DQ at In Your House: Revenge of the Taker and then beat the shit out of Bret the following night on Raw in a streetfight. Besides that, the finishes of those matches always kept both men strong.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

What the fuck is Shawn's problem?

Shawn wasn't leaving and Bret was. It'd be idiotic to job the guy who's staying to the guy who's leaving.

-=Mike

I kind of think the whole thing was childish on some level and I can see why Vince wouldn't want to job his future guys to one who's on his way out, but Shawn Michaels has a track record of being a dick. He didn't want to put Austin over at Wrestlemania 14 even though he had a back injury that was going see him out of action for four years and Austin was the hottest thing in wrestling at the time. That's about as bad as Bret not wanting to job on his way out. A HEEL wanted to go over the hottest thing in wrestling at the biggest show of the year even though he was in no condition to wrestle in the match. That just doesn't make any sense at all. He faked an injury to get out of jobbing the belt and he wouldn't put over British Bulldog in a show that was setup for British Bulldog to go over. He was such a fucking petty, insecure, chilidish primadonna back then. I don't even buy him being a changed person now because I have no reason to believe that he is one. He goes over EVERYBODY who doesn't have more pull than him backstage. His feud with Triple H got pushed to the top of RAW for a long time and he got pushed into the main event at Wrestlemania XX and made Chris Benoit look bad the whole time. He put Angle over at Wrestlemania but watch him get out of doing any jobs for a LONG time.

[genius33 0]

he made benoit look bad at WMXX?!?!?!?! WTF?

 

someone is a little bitter towards shawn. i sincerely believe that he has really changed and its evident to everyone.

[JHawk 0]

Here's a thought I haven't seen mentioned yet: Bret Hart had creative control for the final 30 days he was with the WWF. He was also scheduled to work matches past Survivor Series for another month, leading, presumably, to the next PPV.

 

Anybody have a timeline on how that would've played out? Depending on how long he was supposed to keep working after SurSer, that whole "final 30 days" clause might not even have been applicable at SurSer.

Survivor Series was November 9. D-Generation X (scheduled to be Hart's last appearance) was December 7. 28 days.

[Naked Snake 0]

Here is an excerpt from Sex, Lies and Headlocks for those not familiar with some of the details of the "Montreal Incident". I know most of you are aware of the details of what happened, but a few people asked some questions and hopefully the answers are here...somewhere...

 

 

"Rather than see Turner get his hands on one of the WWF's last bankable stars, McMahon offered Hart and unprecedented twenty year contract. Negotiated in October 1996, it gave Hart a seven figure salary for three years, during which Hart promised to keep wrestling, and a six figure paycheque thereafter, when he would ascend to the booking committee and have a key role as a scriptwriter. But now, a year into the deal, Vince regretted his impetousness. For one thing, Hart hadn't spiked the ratings as had hoped. For another, McMahon had begun talks with a Manhattan investment house about taking the WWF public, and he'd been advised to limit any long term obligations on his balance sheet. So before a show in MSG, McMahon told Hart he could no longer afford the deal they'd struck. He should feel free to pursue his fortune at WCW.

 

While Hart probably could have gone to court to enforce the contract, he sought out Bischoff. The Call Vince received in the barber's chair was Bret reporting he had a deal on the table worth $2million a year. Was Vince sure this is what he wanted? A few half hearted options were explored but none amounted to much of a counteroffer, so Hart said he was accepting Turner's offer.

 

As he walked through the cool air of a Manhattan fall and into a waiting limousine that was about to whisk him away to the movies with Linda, Vince was already thinking about how to make money off of Hart's departure. His next PPV Survivor Series, was due to air on November 9th. He told Hart he wanted him to lose the belt to Shawn Michaels.

 

 

Michaels and Hart disliked each other as much as two men could. Hart came from a legendary Canadian wrestling family. Michaels was the son of a military man, born on an air force base in Scottsdale Arizona and reared in San Antonio Texas. He had no patience for the pretentious Harts and their stuffy claim to being the self appointed guardians of tradition. When Hart took his brief hiatus from the WWF to pursue an acting career, Michaels moved into the company's top slot. He was understandably piqued then, when Hart returned to bump him down a notch.

 

From his vantage point, Hart saw Michaels as a low class player who was lucky to have gotten as far as he had. "In my absence" he once wrote in a Calgary newspaper column, "the WWF had been overtaken by a prima donna of unmatched proportions." For his part, Michaels argued to McMahon that there was no way Hart was worth roughly twice the salarry. Michaels was younger and a harder worker. Most importantly, he claimed, he was on message. So he wanted a raise or he'd walk. When Vince refused to let him out of his one year contract, Michaels vented his frustration by showing up at a Mobile, Alabama, taping of Raw barely able to stay on his feet and needing directions to the ring. Once inside of it, he let his anger fly by drunkenly quipping that Hart was seeing "a lot of Sunny days lately." The allusion to an affair that Hart was widely rumored to be having with the buxom Tammy Lynn Sytch, who appeared under the stage name Sunny, was a low blow. If there's one pact among wrestlers, it's that what happens on the road, stays on the road.

 

When Raw visited the Fleet Center in Boston the next week, Hart let Michaels know just how much trouble he'd caused by following him into a bathroom and starting an argument that escalated into a floor rolling brawl. After Hart wound up with a fist full of his hair, Michaels stormed out of the building muttering, "Fuck this shit Vince, I'll never work for you again."

 

That was in May. Now it was November, and Hart told Vince that he'd never give up his belt to Michaels. For as long as he'd worked in the WWF he'd done as he was told, but this time Hart wanted to call his last shot. He'd lose to anybody, he said, except Michaels. And he didn't want to lose in front of his fans in Canada. With the PPV days away, a series of negotiations forced Vince to relent. The Montreal match could end in a DQ, he agreed, and instead of dropping the strap, Bret could hand it to Vince the next night at the episode of Raw they were taping in Ottawa.

 

But as his flight landed in Montreal on Saturday, Vince had already decided that the plan was too risky. Word was out on the Internet that Hart was heading to WCW. With the ratings gap finally closing to within a percentage point, he couldn't stand the idea that Bischoff would show up on Nitro crowing that he'd hired the WWF's reiging champ. No. The only way that Hart could leave Montreal on Sunday was without the strap.

 

Hart arrived in Canada on edge as well. At a house show in Toronto on Saturday night, he approached the referee who was scheduled to work the Survivor Series match, a longtime McMahon deputy named Earl Hebner, and asked if anything had changed. No, Hebner replied, the finish was still the same. Michaels would bump Hebner and knock him out. then be placed in Hart's finishing move, the sharpshooter. Because Hebner wouldn't see Michaels submitting to Hart, Michaels could escape the loss and Hart could save face before his hometown fans. In the confusion, there would be run ins by DeGeneration X and the Hart Foundation, leading to the DQ. Seeing the worry on Hart's face, he added, "I swear on my kids, I'll quit before I doublecross you."

 

Hart was still jittery when he landed in Montreal, but backstage at the Molson Center he started to relax. After going over their spots in an agreeable fashion, he and Michaels dressed quietly, without much drama. Vince changed beside them, seeimgly in a good mood now that all the details had been worked out.

 

When it finally came time for the match to start, Michaels play it straight, just as he said he would in the locker room. In fact, as the men brawled their way into the crowd, Hart thought he was putting on a hell of a show. For the better part of five minutes, they flung each other up and down the aisles. When they brawled their way back to the ring, Michaels gave Hebner the timely bump that knocked him out and set up the series of spots that started with him placing a submission hold on Hart. Because they still had 8 minutes to go, Hart let Michaels mount his back and relaxed a bit, grabbing a few deep breaths to conserve his energy. He was still gathering strength when out of the the corner of his eye, he heard a director yell, "It's time! Get up!"

 

Hart saw Hebner rise and felt Michaels tighten his grip. Then he heard the words, "Ring the fucking bell" And that was when Hart understood what was happening. Later that night, Michaels would insist that he knew nothing about the deception, and the look of surprise on his face lent him the benefit of the doubt. In fact, he seemed disjointed when Vince barker at Hebner, "Give him the belt" and he had to be told by road agent Jerry Brisco to raise it over his head, thereby letting the crowd know he was accepting the title. Hart had his own way of acknowledging the double cross. Meeting McMahon's stare, he spat at his boss, streaking his face.

 

The backstage area was chaos. While Hebner was being whisked to a waiting rental car, Michaels waited in the locker room for Hart. "You weren't in on that?" he was asked when Hart finally stormed in.

 

"I had no fucking idea," Michaels replied. "As God as my fucking witness. My hands are fucking clean on this one. I swear to God."

 

Vince had retreaded to his own locked office backstage when the WWF's locker room leader, the Undertaker, rapped on his door to say that the Boys were angry and had decided that Hart was owed an apology. Seeing, the politics of the situation, McMahon nodded in agreement and walked into the dressing room area flanked by his son Shane, and road agents Brisco and Sergeant Slaughter, while Hart was toweling himself off. Hart called his ex boss a liar warning Vince that if he didn't leavce the area before Hart finished dressing. "I'm going to punch you in the fucking mouth." But Vince insisted on explaining himself. Yes, he'd lied to Hart, but weren't they all going to be rich in the end? Wasn't that all that mattered? Hart answered with his fist, landing a hard blow to Vince's right temple. Shane jumped on Hart's back, but by then it was clear the long night was over. "Get this motherfucker out of here, or I'll hurt him." Bret said, controlling what was left of his voice. Vince staggered to his feet and left limping down the hall, a dark bruise on his lower lip.

 

By the next morning, the episode had sparked a furor on the internet sites and chat rooms, and the WWF was in turmoil. Staffers stayed up half the night quelling a threatened boycott. In a high stakes meeting with his talent before the taping of Raw on Monday evening in Ottawa, McMahon insisted that Hart was jeopardizing the company, that he'd taken the punch for all of them. When he finally decided to adress the issue for the TV audience the next Monday, he started believing it himself.

 

"Some would say I screwed Bret Hart" he began. "The referee didn't screw Bret Hart. Shawn Michaels didn't screw Bret Hart. Bret Hart screwed Bret Hart." Then he issued this warning: "If were going to ave have problems along those lines in the locker room or anywhere else, okay we're going to have them. But no more free shots."

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

That 'piece' has more than a few errors in it, that simple fact checking would have corrected. For one thing, the fight in Boston happened in early July. Second, the idea of Bret giving the belt up was certainly not decided upon for sure before that Sunday in Montreal, and even then it was never a set upon plan. Bret and Vince were still talking things out that afternoon, which you can hear on Wrestling With Shadows.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

he made benoit look bad at WMXX?!?!?!?! WTF?

 

someone is a little bitter towards shawn. i sincerely believe that he has really changed and its evident to everyone.

I feel that him bullying his way into the main event made Benoit look like the third wheel. He was made to look like a bitch during the build towards Wrestlemania XX and Benoit chasing the title and winning the Royal Rumble took a backseat to Shawn and HHH's feud. I can see where you can say that I'm bitter towards the guy, but his track record is horrible and people generally don't change. It's possible that he's grown up, but I doubt it. Hogan's 50 years old and he still pulls the same shit but only to the extent that he's allowed to get away with it. I think Shawn Michaels is the same way.

[Jericholic82 0]

Yea but at least he didnt refuse to job to Benoit. And he actaully jobbed to Kurt at mania last week. Hes grown somewhat you have to think. As for wm 20 I think it was more of WWEs worries of Benoit not being over enough to main event wm is why they added shawn, but its good that they did cuz the match turned out to be great (not to say that a one on one between chris and trips wouldnt have been good) Funny thign on byte this last week a fan called in and asked shawn if he was going to go after the world or wwe titles. Shawn said no and that he was done with that and would like to go on a"rockers reunion tour" with marty and basically I guess work the highmidcard at best. Of course byte this is mostly kayfabed so who knows.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

He didn't job to Benoit though, he just didn't win the title. I acknowledged the job to Kurt already, but I believe that was his one job to give so that he can say that he does job to people.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

They're going to do Kurt v Shawn again, as they already began teasing it, so Shawn's getting his win back, so he didn't really put Angle over. It was the same deal with him losing to Edge at the Rumble; Shawn got his win back in pretty short order, so Edge didn't really get over from the win, because he lost right back to Shawn.

 

Michaels being put in the WM XX main event was simply down to Hunter wanting it, so he could feud with his friend on top, while the World Champion was kept in the semi's.

[Papacita 0]

That 'piece' has more than a few errors in it, that simple fact checking would have corrected. For one thing, the fight in Boston happened in early July. Second, the idea of Bret giving the belt up was certainly not decided upon for sure before that Sunday in Montreal, and even then it was never a set upon plan. Bret and Vince were still talking things out that afternoon, which you can hear on Wrestling With Shadows.

The fight happened June 9th if I'm not mistaken--the day after KOTR. He wasn't too far off on that one.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

That 'piece' has more than a few errors in it, that simple fact checking would have corrected. For one thing, the fight in Boston happened in early July. Second, the idea of Bret giving the belt up was certainly not decided upon for sure before that Sunday in Montreal, and even then it was never a set upon plan. Bret and Vince were still talking things out that afternoon, which you can hear on Wrestling With Shadows.

The fight happened June 9th if I'm not mistaken--the day after KOTR. He wasn't too far off on that one.

Yeah, it was in June. Still, it's an error that a book like that should have corrected before going to press. It also doesn't mention Shawn's threat to go and appear on the live Nitro going on that night.

[Jericholic82 0]

They're going to do Kurt v Shawn again, as they already began teasing it, so Shawn's getting his win back, so he didn't really put Angle over. It was the same deal with him losing to Edge at the Rumble; Shawn got his win back in pretty short order, so Edge didn't really get over from the win, because he lost right back to Shawn.

 

Michaels being put in the WM XX main event was simply down to Hunter wanting it, so he could feud with his friend on top, while the World Champion was kept in the semi's.

thats what bothered me about the shawn vs hhh feud that would never end. and the fact that even eugene was pushed over benoit leading to the vengeance ppv.

 

as soon as shwn asked the crowd for a reamtch I thought, oh he wants his win back. But thats fine cuz Kurt is already established as a maine venter. Edge however needed a rub to get over big as a heel.

 

 

Like I said before Vince should stop letting "the inmates run the asylum"

 

 

and to hell with this topic I'm not posting here again.

[what 0]

do you remember the show when raw finally beat nitro? It was the night Austin challenged vince to a match with one arm tied behind his back. If the Evil Mr Mcmahon never came about, would they have broken the streak?

Your posts are for the most part stupid and annoying.

 

Evil McMahon or not, with the Rock and Austin leading the WWF, they weren't going to fail.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

I do legitly think Shawn has cleaned himself up and is a better man now, but is their really any way for any of us to know? I'm just going by hearing him talk on Byte This about how its more about the quality of matches at this point in his career instead of being about wins and losses. We don't know these guys personally we're just going by what the dirt sheets tell us. Backstage politics will always exist, most guys on top use it. How about Austin? How about Flair? How about Angle? I don't think you should just hate guys based on that. Although I can see why people hate Shawn for all the 90s stuff, if it affects the product negatively than it's bad, but I don't see the point of choosing sides when you don't know the whole story or don't know the people involved.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Just because we weren't there when the stuff was going down doesn't mean that we shouldn't have an opinion. Also, my dislike of Shawn Michaels stems more from him being unprofessional and childish than from backstage politics. As far as knowing the whole story, how much more do we need to know? We've seen books, documentaries, interviews and all that shit. I think it's pretty easy to form an informed opinion on things since we've had almost eight years of exposure to it. Shawn Michaels has been interviewed and has been found to be full of shit and a bold-faced liar. These qualities may not be unique to him, but I generally don't like people like that and that's why I dislike him.

[Jericholic82 0]

do you remember the show when raw finally beat nitro? It was the night Austin challenged vince to a match with one arm tied behind his back.  If the Evil Mr Mcmahon never came about, would they have broken the streak?

Your posts are for the most part stupid and annoying.

 

Evil McMahon or not, with the Rock and Austin leading the WWF, they weren't going to fail.

ok so I broke my promise, but I never said the wwf would fail, I was asking everyone else here what they thought. Even if I did say it it would have been IMO, so you have to take it with a grain of salt.

 

Just because I am not a hardcore Shawn Hater apparently makes you all upset.

[NYU 0]

He didn't job to Benoit though, he just didn't win the title. I acknowledged the job to Kurt already, but I believe that was his one job to give so that he can say that he does job to people.

Except for the fact that he tapped out cleanly to Benoit's sharpshooter at Backlash 2004.

 

And as for the idea that Angle would look bad if Michaels was somehow able to get back his win, that's false. Angle made Shawn tap out CLEANLY at WrestleMania XXI. Looking throughout Shawn's career, there are not many people that could make that argument. After an excellent match that made the both of them look great, Angle actually made Shawn tap out. If Shawn was to get back his win in the future, it wouldn't make Angle look any less threatening or any less credible. It would just establish that, maybe, these two wrestlers might be on the same level when it comes to wrestling talent. They're equally as good in the ring and, when they're facing each other, they just need to pull out that little extra something to get off the win. Seeing as how they're both considered to be WWE legends, this SHOULD be the image you're trying to portray. Angle losing the next match between the two doesn't hurt him, and I doubt it would be an example of "Shawn's backstage pull" getting in the way. It would just be a testament to the fact that these two are equally as good in the ring.

 

This is hardly comparable to the Edge/Michaels thing. Edge won on a cheap fluke rollup at the Royal Rumble. Kurt Angle managed to make Shawn Michaels tap out cleanly. Shawn getting back his win in both scenarios have different effects. Against Edge, it gives off the impression that Edge needs to bend the rules to get a win off Michaels -- but he still CAN do it. If he doesn't though, he could very easily lose to Shawn, as he did in the Street Fight. Against Angle, it gives off the impression that both men could beat each other at any time. Angle can make Shawn tap out cleanly at WrestleMania XXI. Michaels can pin Angle cleanly at another major PPV. They are now put on the same competitive level.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

He didn't job to Benoit though, he just didn't win the title. I acknowledged the job to Kurt already, but I believe that was his one job to give so that he can say that he does job to people.

Except for the fact that he tapped out cleanly to Benoit's sharpshooter at Backlash 2004.

 

And as for the idea that Angle would look bad if Michaels was somehow able to get back his win, that's false. Angle made Shawn tap out CLEANLY at WrestleMania XXI. Looking throughout Shawn's career, there are not many people that could make that argument. After an excellent match that made the both of them look great, Angle actually made Shawn tap out. If Shawn was to get back his win in the future, it wouldn't make Angle look any less threatening or any less credible. It would just establish that, maybe, these two wrestlers might be on the same level when it comes to wrestling talent. They're equally as good in the ring and, when they're facing each other, they just need to pull out that little extra something to get off the win. Seeing as how they're both considered to be WWE legends, this SHOULD be the image you're trying to portray. Angle losing the next match between the two doesn't hurt him, and I doubt it would be an example of "Shawn's backstage pull" getting in the way. It would just be a testament to the fact that these two are equally as good in the ring.

 

This is hardly comparable to the Edge/Michaels thing. Edge won on a cheap fluke rollup at the Royal Rumble. Kurt Angle managed to make Shawn Michaels tap out cleanly. Shawn getting back his win in both scenarios have different effects. Against Edge, it gives off the impression that Edge needs to bend the rules to get a win off Michaels -- but he still CAN do it. If he doesn't though, he could very easily lose to Shawn, as he did in the Street Fight. Against Angle, it gives off the impression that both men could beat each other at any time. Angle can make Shawn tap out cleanly at WrestleMania XXI. Michaels can pin Angle cleanly at another major PPV. They are now put on the same competitive level.

Except for the fact that he tapped out cleanly to Benoit's sharpshooter at Backlash 2004.

 

There is a difference in beating someone as part of a three-way, and beating them in a normal singles match. If you beat someone in a singles match, the right way, then there is no question that you are the better man, and you were shown to be able to beat them one-on-one. The benefits of a clean singles win over someone are greater than the benefits of beating them, even cleanly, in a three-way match, where the other guy being there takes the edge off of it.

 

And as for the idea that Angle would look bad if Michaels was somehow able to get back his win, that's false.

 

Nobody said Angle would look bad if Michaels got his win back. They were just pointing out that Michaels is getting his win back, so it's not like he selflessly put Angle over, because in the long run he didn't.

 

This is hardly comparable to the Edge/Michaels thing. Edge won on a cheap fluke rollup at the Royal Rumble. Kurt Angle managed to make Shawn Michaels tap out cleanly. Shawn getting back his win in both scenarios have different effects. Against Edge, it gives off the impression that Edge needs to bend the rules to get a win off Michaels -- but he still CAN do it. If he doesn't though, he could very easily lose to Shawn, as he did in the Street Fight.

 

It is comparable in that it can be argued, probably accurately, that Shawn only lost to Edge, and not even cleanly, because he was going to get his win back anyway. If Shawn was told to put Edge or Angle over and that he wouldn't get his win back, would he have been so willing to put them over at all ? I don't think he would have, at least not without a lot of complaining.

 

Edge shouldn't be presented as needing to cheat to beat Michaels. Edge is meant to be a future top guy, at least as top as anyone can get with Hunter around, so he should have been given a strong clean win over Michaels at the Rumble, so that the fans can start to really take him seriously. As it is, he had to cheat to win, and when they had their rematch, Edge threw everything he had at Michaels and still couldn't win, while Shawn came back to win clean with one move.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Regarding HBK getting his win back from Edge...

 

Going over someone in a Street Fight is hardly getting a big "clean win over younger star" type situation. I'm not defending Michaels here, but he won in a match with no rules. Beating someone clean in a straight match is a lot worse than beating someone where you could just bash their skull in with a chair.

 

Unless Shawn won without use of any weapons, since I don't remember anything from the match other than the "Fuck the FCC" sign that got tackled.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Regarding HBK getting his win back from Edge...

 

Going over someone in a Street Fight is hardly getting a big "clean win over younger star" type situation. I'm not defending Michaels here, but he won in a match with no rules. Beating someone clean in a straight match is a lot worse than beating someone where you could just bash their skull in with a chair.

 

Unless Shawn won without use of any weapons, since I don't remember anything from the match other than the "Fuck the FCC" sign that got tackled.

The point is that Shawn got his win back at all. Would it really have damaged Shawn to lose when Kurt interfered ? Not only would it have set up his WM match with Angle, but it also wouldn't have given the message that Edge really can't beat Michaels, which is what you got, given that Edge hit a ton of big moves on Shawn with Shawn kicking out of them all, and then hitting one kick to get the win back.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Also remember that it took Undertaker to get him to job to Austin at Wrestlemania XIV, and Austin was the guaranteed next big thing at that point.  Had Austin not won at XIV, the WWF might have gone out like WCW.  They never ended the streak until after he won the title.

I never heard that, what's the story there?

Shawn was trying to back out of doing the job to Austin at XIV, going so far that he said he was going to turn the main event into a shoot. The story goes that Taker told him that if he wasn't going to be jobbing out in the ring, he would be jobbing out in the parking lot when he got back. This incident has been confirmed by numerous sources, including I believe, Taker himself.

 

Hunter's Torn Quad knows more about it than I do. I'm sure he could describe it in more detail.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Also remember that it took Undertaker to get him to job to Austin at Wrestlemania XIV, and Austin was the guaranteed next big thing at that point.  Had Austin not won at XIV, the WWF might have gone out like WCW.  They never ended the streak until after he won the title.

I never heard that, what's the story there?

Shawn was trying to back out of doing the job to Austin at XIV, going so far that he said he was going to turn the main event into a shoot. The story goes that Taker told him that if he wasn't going to be jobbing out in the ring, he would be jobbing out in the parking lot when he got back. This incident has been confirmed by numerous sources, including I believe, Taker himself.

 

Hunter's Torn Quad knows more about it than I do. I'm sure he could describe it in more detail.

In the run up to WM XIV, Shawn started making noise about not dropping the WWF Title to Austin. This continued up until the event itself. Before the match, Undertaker went to the gorilla position, where the wrestlers are right before they enter the areana, and began taping his fists up. He told Shawn point blank that if he didn't do the job in the ring, he'd be doing the job the moment he stepped back through the curtains.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

He didn't job to Benoit though, he just didn't win the title. I acknowledged the job to Kurt already, but I believe that was his one job to give so that he can say that he does job to people.

Except for the fact that he tapped out cleanly to Benoit's sharpshooter at Backlash 2004.

 

And as for the idea that Angle would look bad if Michaels was somehow able to get back his win, that's false. Angle made Shawn tap out CLEANLY at WrestleMania XXI. Looking throughout Shawn's career, there are not many people that could make that argument. After an excellent match that made the both of them look great, Angle actually made Shawn tap out. If Shawn was to get back his win in the future, it wouldn't make Angle look any less threatening or any less credible. It would just establish that, maybe, these two wrestlers might be on the same level when it comes to wrestling talent. They're equally as good in the ring and, when they're facing each other, they just need to pull out that little extra something to get off the win. Seeing as how they're both considered to be WWE legends, this SHOULD be the image you're trying to portray. Angle losing the next match between the two doesn't hurt him, and I doubt it would be an example of "Shawn's backstage pull" getting in the way. It would just be a testament to the fact that these two are equally as good in the ring.

 

This is hardly comparable to the Edge/Michaels thing. Edge won on a cheap fluke rollup at the Royal Rumble. Kurt Angle managed to make Shawn Michaels tap out cleanly. Shawn getting back his win in both scenarios have different effects. Against Edge, it gives off the impression that Edge needs to bend the rules to get a win off Michaels -- but he still CAN do it. If he doesn't though, he could very easily lose to Shawn, as he did in the Street Fight. Against Angle, it gives off the impression that both men could beat each other at any time. Angle can make Shawn tap out cleanly at WrestleMania XXI. Michaels can pin Angle cleanly at another major PPV. They are now put on the same competitive level.

I didn't remember him tapping out to Benoit's sharpshooter so you got me on that one and that's being fair. However, I don't remember alot of stuff that happened after Wrestlemania so I don't know the details of that match, the build-up or the aftermath.

 

As far as getting a job back, the guy who wins last is the one who's remembered. That's how all rematches go in wrestling and in any sport. Do most people remember Joe Frazier for beating Ali the first time, or do they remember Ali winning two rematches? Do people remember think that Hasim Rahman was a great boxer and on the level of Lennoz Lewis because he knocked him out cleanly in their first match or do they remember Lennox Lewis getting his revenge? People always remember the payback more than what caused the payback so I'm going to disagree with you on the idea of being level competitors.

[Naked Snake 0]

Shawn's ego at the time was incredible. I don't even know how Undertaker worked with him, but looking at the results in their feud, (No contest, Michaels cheap pin, Michaels cheap casket win) it looked like Shawn truly meant he wasn't going to do jobs for anyone.

 

Michaels was sitting in the lockerroom and he didn't know if he was going to do the job or not. Nevermind his back was destroyed, he still didn't want to put anyone over.

 

Didn't one of the Harris brothers choke Shawn out?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Didn't one of the Harris brothers choke Shawn out?

Yes. On their last night with the company in 1995, one of them blocked the door to the locker room, while the other grabbed Michaels by the throat and snatched him up against the wall, and basically scared the crap out of him.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Shawn's ego at the time was incredible. I don't even know how Undertaker worked with him, but looking at the results in their feud, (No contest, Michaels cheap pin, Michaels cheap casket win) it looked like Shawn truly meant he wasn't going to do jobs for anyone.

 

Michaels was sitting in the lockerroom and he didn't know if he was going to do the job or not. Nevermind his back was destroyed, he still didn't want to put anyone over.

 

Didn't one of the Harris brothers choke Shawn out?

Not just ANYONE, he didn't want to put over STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN who was going to become ONE OF THE TOP FIVE BIGGEST WRESTLERS OF ALL-TIME at the BIGGEST EVENT OF THE YEAR at the beginning of the WWF boom.