Should Casinos be allowed to ban Card Counters?

[Guest CronoT]

This is a war that's been raging for almost 40 years now, ever since the Black Jack formula was cracked. Someone who is a good Car Counter can win big while playing Black Jack in casinos. But, casinos don't want to lose money, because they know they have the odds in their favor, so they know the average person will always eventually lose.

 

The way the law works is rather ridiculous. According to the law, it is legal to card count, and the casinos cannot call it cheating. The Catch-22 is, the casinos can prevent any person from playing any game for any reason, and they don't have to give a reason. It's the "Service Refusal" Clause. The casinos can refuse service to anyone, for any reason.

 

So, what do you think? Is card counting illegal, or are casinos just being bitches, because their fool-proof cash-cow is no longer fool-proof?

[Guest CronoT]

Alright, you view spammer, come out of hiding.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Someone who is a good Car Counter can win big while playing Black Jack in casinos.

How can counting cars in a casino's parking lot win a customer money at the Black Jack table?...

[Slayer 0]

Maybe the Casino has contests to guess how many cars are in the parking lot... kinda like counting jelly beans in a jar

 

"Come on man, just lemme have some!"

[Black Lushus 0]

that reminds me of Vegas Vacation where Clark and Eddie go to that Casino that has all those board games and guessing games...

[Ace309 0]

The way the law works is rather ridiculous. According to the law, it is legal to card count, and the casinos cannot call it cheating. The Catch-22 is, the casinos can prevent any person from playing any game for any reason, and they don't have to give a reason. It's the "Service Refusal" Clause. The casinos can refuse service to anyone, for any reason.

Waiting for the ridiculous part here ...

[2GOLD 0]

If I have to lose, they have to lose or get out.

It's the circle of misery and they must share it.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

So? If you win so much they kick you out, just go somewhere else. Common sense, people.

[CanadianChris 0]

My personal favourite thing to see in a casino is a guy who's obviously counting cards, but is losing his shirt, and THEN gets backed off. It's even better if the guy's just a horrible player who actually thinks he can win.

 

Incidentally, what you describe applies mainly to Nevada casinos. In Atlantic City, it's illegal for a casino to bar someone for card counting. Besides, with the new automatic shuffling machines, card counting will likely become a thing of the past anyway.

[Black Lushus 0]

no, they just take you out back and kill you or chop off your hands if you win too much...

 

Okay I watch too much TV...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

But seriously, I don't go to Casinos so I don't know much about rules 'n stuff, but are they allowed to kick someone out if they are making too much money? If they are then that's the end of the story. It may be a bitch-move on their part, but that's life.

 

If someone gets booted from a casino for doing this, are they banned forever, or can they come back the next night?..

[Black Lushus 0]

I don't think it's how much money automatically, but I know for a fact their suspicion level goes full bore and they train cameras directly on that person to watch for any shenanigans...

[Jingus 0]

So? If you win so much they kick you out, just go somewhere else. Common sense, people.

Not quite. The casinos' security divisions are pretty friendly with each other and share information on card counters and other "inventory loss" risks.

 

If someone gets booted from a casino for doing this, are they banned forever, or can they come back the next night?..

To quote The Sandlot: "FOR. EV. ER."

[Damaramu 0]

Can anyone here count cards?

 

In south Oklahoma closer to Texas there are Indian Casinos everywhere......it's actually kind of scary.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I'd say yes, casinos should be allowed to ban card counters. If they consider it to be cheating then they have the right to kick them out. They also should be able to ban anyone they want for whatever reason they want. No one owes anyone anything. I wish people would get over themselves and realize that.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Just don't go to casinos. Quit supporting Indians and the Mafia.

[CanadianChris 0]

Can anyone here count cards?

 

In south Oklahoma closer to Texas there are Indian Casinos everywhere......it's actually kind of scary.

I can. You can't make any money off it anymore, though.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

In the casinos around here, they shuffle up about 8 decks of cards, then randomly pick a section of those cards to use.

 

If you can still count cards effectively against those odds, I figure you should be allowed to. But then again, casinos, like most businesses (if I'm not mistaken) like to err on the side of caution and say that can kick out anyone for anything.

 

Really, I think the sytem would be better if they didn't share security information as Jingus said. Got kicked out of one casino because you made it too obvious? Pick another and be more discrete.

[Special K 0]

If they can't find a way to legitimately beat card counters and by the looks of the above post, it's not particularly hard, they should have to drop the game. Saying a game is fair for one person and unfair for another is ridiculous, and they should frankly be unable to lifetime ban someone for something umproveable. Or they can always do seomthing like in Pai-Gow (and even-odds game that pays out like $95 for every $100.), at least they're being honest about taking your money there.

I bet people who do tons of research can come out ahead on horse-racing. They shouldn't be banned either.

[Ace309 0]

Why should a private business be forced to serve anyone?

[iggymcfly 0]

The casinos choose when they want to gamble just like you do. If they want to stop betting in a certain situation, that's their right, just like it's your right to step away from the table if you're losing.

[Red Baron 0]

I'm sure if the person wins 10 million on cards, they can make that money back in a few days.

[Special K 0]

Why should a private business be forced to serve anyone?

 

Oh, good. I was sick of talking to all those women customers.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

If casinos were smart they would simply not allow people to bump their bets while a sleeve is being played out.

[Ace309 0]

Oh, good. I was sick of talking to all those women customers.

Sigh. You "know" (and I use the term loosely - perhaps it would be more accurate to say you "happen to have stumbled upon") just enough about law to make me be an insufferable pedant.

 

*Ace pats Special K gently on the head

 

You did a GOOD JOB finding an almost-apt analogy! I'm VERY PROUD of you! However, you're just barely on the other side of accurate. You see, United States law has things called "protected classes," which are a reaction to traditional types of discrimination. Discrimination against protected classes is prohibited.

 

On the other hand, you have certain principles of commerce that apply to business owners, including the "a man's inn" extension of "a man's home is his castle."

 

It's difficult to see how we resolve this, I know, but I'll give you a hint... the one forms an exception to the other. Thus, if you're discriminating against a protected class, contrary to a provision of United States law, you're opening yourself to civil litigation.

 

I'll leave it as an exercise for you to figure out where in United States or Nevada law it specifies that card counters are a protected class.

 

[Note to Vyce: I acknowledge the oversimplified nature of this post. Please don't kill me.]

[Jingus 0]

I'm sure if the person wins 10 million on cards, they can make that money back in a few days.

True, but there are probably thousands of people out there who can count cards. If they were allowed to gamble on blackjack, the casinos would go bankrupt in a hurry.

[CanadianChris 0]

I'm sure if the person wins 10 million on cards, they can make that money back in a few days.

True, but there are probably thousands of people out there who can count cards. If they were allowed to gamble on blackjack, the casinos would go bankrupt in a hurry.

Maybe, but for every person who can count cards well, there are a hundred who think they can, but suck at it and give the casino more money.

 

That, and the fact that even the best counter enjoys an advantage of around one percent, with HUGE variance. You'd need a bankroll of around $100,000 to be able to beat a $25 table without worrying too much about going bust.

[AboveAverage484 0]

I don't think the Mafia runs many casinos in Vegas anymore. Atlantic City, however, is another story.

 

As for card counting, I would advise against it, unless you think you can shuffle with one hand. [/Casino reference]

[Special K 0]

'Twas a joke, ass.

Having a dress code is a more apt analogy, and perfectly legal.

I was responding to the "why should a business ever be forced to serve anyone?" There's obviously exceptions.

[Jingus 0]

So, in conclusion, card counters = rigged game = bad, okay?