Top Ten NBA Players

[Guest Vitamin X]

As far as the Shaq with no help argument; give Shaq the same team in LA that Kobe has, and I guarantee you they make the playoffs.

 

Even with BOTH Kobe and Shaq, there's no guarantee they would have made the playoffs with everything that happened to the team this year. It's evident that Phil Jackson was a major reason for their success (with both Kobe and Shaq in the 3 seasons before Jackson came along, they barely made the playoffs each time and were always a first-round exit.. Buddha Phil comes along and all of a sudden we got 3 straight world championships).

 

I mean, I'm not going to deny that Shaq is a franchise player, but to deny Kobe is as well is a tad ridiculous. The whole reason why they were so successful is having the best outside player in the game (debatable though) paired with the best inside player in the game (no question about that), along with very good coaching. Take away the coaching and an inside presence, toss in basically a shitload of new players around Kobe like an expansion team (with the exception of Devean George who didn't even play till like the last month of the season, and of course LUKE WALTON~), have everyone injured at some point during the season, and a midseason coaching change from 2-time champ Rudy T. to "Fuck the playoffs" Frank Hamblen, and it just was a complete disaster from top to bottom. Not saying they don't need any changes in the offseason, but fuck that's a lot.

[Brett Favre 0]

So Shaq atleast made the playoffs with a young ass Kobe. That's what I said. Made the playoffs. Not to mention Odom at this stage of his career is better than Kobe was back then, add Butler, Atkins who will kill off the double teams, and Mihm who's probably the best backup O'Neal would have. They would definitely make the playoffs.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Butler was an extreme disappointment, Atkins is a glorified 3-point shooter and is inconsistent at best, and Mihm would have been irrelevant with Shaq there. It would have been Shaq and Odom, which would be basically just crashing the boards and plodding up and down the court.

 

Jackson helped Kobe develop into the player he is now anyways, so using him as an example pre-Jackson era is kind of a reach, but the talent was still there.

[Brett Favre 0]

Atkins is the type of player Shaq lives off of. You're insane man. Too much bias against Shaq. Every team has injuries, and shit. Look at the Bulls, the Pacers, the Mavericks, the Sonics. It's not like the Lakers and Kobe were the only team to go through this.

 

I mean really. Shaq pre-Kobe (In LA); they made the playoffs. That one year he was there without him, with just Eddie Jones, they were in it. Switch Eddie Jones back then with Odom, Butler, and Atkins, they make the playoffs.

[Guest Vitamin X]

The Bulls, Pacers (especially the Pacers), Mavs, and Sonics all were deep, deep teams with good coaching. The Lakers have never had depth, it was in fact their downfall last year against Detroit. Yeah I don't like Shaq, yet I'm not going to deny the impact he could make, however I don't think it's nearly the impact you think he would. That's all I'm disagreeing with.

 

And there was never a time in LA that Shaq didn't have Kobe, since Kobe was drafted the same year Shaq came to town. He didn't have any minutes, but he replaced Vlade Divac and came back with the same results they had the past couple seasons. Atkins is extremely inconsistent, and it's only an assumption that he would thrive with Shaq or not. There's no evidence showing Chucky could put up any kind of numbers with the players around him.

[alfdogg 0]

Shaq and Kobe came to LA the same year.

 

EDIT: Beat me to it.

[Brett Favre 0]

15 minutes a game; whatever.

 

But Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, Damon Jones, Chucky Atkins is the type of player that thrives off of Shaq.

[AboveAverage484 0]

The top three are Jordan, Magic, and Bird in that order.

 

I thought everyone knew that?

 

I thought Rip was going to leave Bird off at first, until I saw him "conveniently" forget him until no. 8, then try to cover his tracks by saying he would be 5

 

As for your comment on Magic going to a Finals with Sam Perkins as a starting center, Jordan went to the Finals and won with Luc fucking Longley as starting center, THREE TIMES!

[lomasmoney 0]

Sam Perkins was a fucking star for Dallas and played what 10 more years after that finals appearence with LA....much more dominant than Luc was

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Magic will always be number one until someone else can come in and legit play 5 positions on the floor. Not just play either, he just plain was the man.

[C Dubya 04 0]

A couple of random points, since I think that it is impossible to compare players across the generations as the game has completely changed.

 

I'd put the Iceman ahead of Robinson on the all-time Spur list. And Robinson would not be near the top ten for me. Although he was a hella good ball player.

 

Personally I would take Magic overall number 1 if I was drafting an NBA team. He was so good and also so versital. He played every fucking position at one point or another, including when he filled in for an injured Kareem and torched the Sixers to clinch a final. I would call Jordan the best player though. He did things that no one else could do, was clutch as all hell and made everyone else on his team better.

 

I can't really talk on Wilt having seen nothing but grainy surveilance footage of him playing. He was a dominant force though.

[Precious Roy 0]

Butler was an extreme disappointment

 

Why? His numbers improved off 03-04, he shot .445%, a career best by far, 15.5 pts per game, one and a half steals, and a great ft%. Plus, he did this as basically the 3rd or 4th wheel. I don't have the stats off-hand, but when Kobe and/or Odom were out Butler stepped up his game big time. Where's the disapointment? What the hell were you expecting from the kid?

 

My top 10 (excluding active players):

 

1. Air Jordan

2. Larry Bird

3. Magic Johnson

4. Wilt Chamberlain

5. Bill Russell

6. Oscar Robertson

7. John Stockton

8. Hakeem Olajuwon

9. Kareem Abdul Jabbar

10. Jerry West

 

on the cusp: Moses, Elgin Baylor, Isiah Thomas

[Guest Vitamin X]

Butler was an extreme disappointment

 

Why? His numbers improved off 03-04, he shot .445%, a career best by far, 15.5 pts per game, one and a half steals, and a great ft%. Plus, he did this as basically the 3rd or 4th wheel. I don't have the stats off-hand, but when Kobe and/or Odom were out Butler stepped up his game big time. Where's the disapointment? What the hell were you expecting from the kid?

If you're looking at his numbers now at the end of the season, you might also note he wasn't getting a lot of minutes.. for a reason.. until the Lakers' playoff fate was well past decided and Odom went out with the shoulder injury, so Kobe and Butler were the main scoring "threats" at that point. The thing with Butler is he can't shake off bad spells when he shoots bad, he's a very emotional player, so sometimes that helps him a lot, other times it absolutely kills him, so he'll show occasional flashes of brilliance and at other times he'll just do absolutely nothing. The disappointment came from knowing that we got rid of fucking SHAQ for this kid to come in and put up numbers, along with Odom (who did pretty well) and Grant (who was pretty much invisible).

[Precious Roy 0]

Well yeah, but don't hold that against Butler, hold it against Kobe and the Lakers front office for driving Shaq away. Butler's a defender first, that's why he got drafted and his claim to fame, emotional like you said, and his offense does feed off his defense and emotion. He's a hell of a role player though, a super sized Bruce Bowen, and the Lakers knew what they were getting. The only way I'd label him a disapointment would be if he shot -40% and couldn't guard anyone.

[Guest Vitamin X]

If Butler really is a defensive player first, he must REALLY be worthless then, because damn near noone played defense on the Lakers this year. Main thing I'm just hoping for with Kobe/Butler/Odom in their mid-20's is that they stick together and develop with good coaching, at any rate. Butler did show some promise when he was getting a lot of time later on, so I hope it carries over to next season.

[iggymcfly 0]

There's no way in hell that Larry Bird was better than Wilt Chamberlain. Bird never averaged 30 ppg for a season, Wilt averaged over 30 for his career. Bird never got 11 rpg in a season, Wilt averaged over 22 rpg over his career. And it's not just that he took more shots either. Wilt led the league in FG% nine years, shooting 68% one year while still in his prime, and 72% when he was in a more defensive role.

 

Bird was one of the best players in his era, but Wilt dominated the game like no one ever has before, and probably no one ever will again. Saying Bird was better than Wilt is like saying that Mickey Mantle was a better ball player than Babe Ruth.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

There's no way in hell that Larry Bird was better than Wilt Chamberlain. Bird never averaged 30 ppg for a season, Wilt averaged over 30 for his career. Bird never got 11 rpg in a season, Wilt averaged over 22 rpg over his career. And it's not just that he took more shots either. Wilt led the league in FG% nine years, shooting 68% one year while still in his prime, and 72% when he was in a more defensive role.

 

Bird was one of the best players in his era, but Wilt dominated the game like no one ever has before, and probably no one ever will again. Saying Bird was better than Wilt is like saying that Mickey Mantle was a better ball player than Babe Ruth.

I agree with the conclusion, but again Chamberlain racked up those statistics because of the conditions under which he played. He scored a lot of points and racked up tons of rebounds because TEAMS TOOK MORE SHOTS.

 

As for the FG%, look at the leaders in Field Goal Percentage, year by year. Shaquille O'Neal has led the league in FG% eight times. Then we have Eddy Curry, Gheorghe Muresan, Chris Gatling, Artis Gilmore, Cedric Ceballos, Buck Williams, James Donaldson. I don't know about you guys, but those names hardly inspire the image of the great shooters in NBA history. Meanwhile, how many times has the NBA leader in 3 point percentage also led the league in Field Goal Percentage? Never.

 

The leaders in field goal percentage do not earn that distinction by shooting well. They do so because they are power forwards and centers, and therefore they shoot the ball closer to the basket, if not at point blank range.

[Carnival 0]

1. Michael Jordan

2. Larry Bird

3. Magic Johnson

4. Wilt Chamberlin

5. Shaquille O'Neal

6. Kareem Abdul Jabar

7. Oscar Robertson

8. Bill Russell

9. Julius Erving

10. Jerry West

 

HM: K. Malone, I. Thomas, E. Baylor, B. Cousey, D. Wilkins, D. Robinson.

[Ripper 0]

How can anyone realistically put Larry Bird over Magic Johnson. I mean seriously?

[Crimson Platypus 0]

John fucking Stockton over Kareem Abdul Jabbar? That's nuts.

[C Dubya 04 0]

How can anyone realistically put Larry Bird over Magic Johnson. I mean seriously?

Good question. Magic could realistically be argued for number 1 all time.

 

Bird was an incredible player, but not quite up to that level.

[Precious Roy 0]

John fucking Stockton over Kareem Abdul Jabbar? That's nuts.

Why? All-time leader in assists and steals, great shooter, great defender, and the best all-around pure point I've ever seen. Kareem gets overrated because of the points, dude played forever, he isn't even the best center on the list, and I'm not going to bump all the big men up just because their size gives them numbers. I figured ranking Hakeem ahead of Abdul Jabbar would be more controversial.

[Guest Redhawk]

My top 10 all-time

==========

1. Michael Jordan

2. Wilt Chamberlain

3. Oscar Robertson

4. Magic Johnson

5. Bill Russell

6. Larry Bird

7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

8. Julius Erving

9. Jerry West

10. Shaquille O'Neal

 

Top 10 active (if they never played another game, where would they rank)

====================================================

1. Shaquille O'Neal

2. Tim Duncan

3. Kobe Bryant

4. Jason Kidd

5. Allen Iverson

6. Reggie Miller

7. Kevin Garnett

8. Alonzo Mourning

9. Vince Carter

10. Dikembe Mutombo