TNA on WGN?

[Guest MikeSC]

The NWA could certainly draw better ratings with a decent time on WGN. The station does shit ratings mainly because aside from the Cubs they don't have much. A wrestling show could change that. I dunno about going for the Monday night slot though, but it might be an interesting slot for those fed up with HHH.

Because having JJ shoved down your throat IS a huge improvement.

-=Mike

[Guest Nobody in Particular]

WGN is available in Canada. That automatically makes it an improvement from where I sit.

[Guest MikeSC]

Care to explain why WCW did so poorly after 1999?

 

The curiosity was sated and the fans realized that there was simply shit on and they didn't wish to watch any further.

 

Ever tried to watch an episode of Impact?

 

It makes Heat seem like appointment TV.

-=Mike

[Astro7x 0]

Anything in the 0.3 range is, by definition, terrible.

          -=Mike

...Especially since pro wrestling can't draw advertisers for squat...

 

You have no idea what you are talking about... Of course a 4pm cable show is going to look poor in comparison to a prime time show. You have your ratings and your share. While the ratings are based on total number of people who could be watching TV, the share rating, which is more accurate in this situation, because its based on how many people are ACTUALLY watching TV at that time slot, and how many of those are watching that show. I have no idea what the share rating is for TNA, but a .3 on a cable show that is on a channel not in a basic programming package is about average from what I know

There's a bit of wisdom in the cable television business that states that most viewers can only keep in mind about ten or so channels at most (including broadcast channels) when deciding what to watch on television.  It seems very doubtful that the young adult male viewers needed by TNA would have WGN in mind.

Its more so that people only watch about 10-15 channels in general out of the 150+ that people get through cable and satellite providers.

[Guest MikeSC]

Anything in the 0.3 range is, by definition, terrible.

          -=Mike

...Especially since pro wrestling can't draw advertisers for squat...

 

You have no idea what you are talking about... Of course a 4pm cable show is going to look poor in comparison to a prime time show. You have your ratings and your share. While the ratings are based on total number of people who could be watching TV, the share rating, which is more accurate in this situation, because its based on how many people are ACTUALLY watching TV at that time slot, and how many of those are watching that show. I have no idea what the share rating is for TNA, but a .3 on a cable show that is on a channel not in a basic programming package is about average from what I know

So, I'm wrong --- because a theory of yours, that you can't actually verify, MIGHT explain away ratings that --- and this should be noted --- haven't exactly IMPROVED.

 

You know, when you can't GO UP in the ratings when your ratings STARTED off as pure shit isn't exactly something that causes people to have much faith in the drawing power.

 

You have a company that can't draw ratings, hasn't been able to draw paying crowds, hasn't been able to draw respectable PPV numbers.

 

You assume the shit rating is an aberration for what reason?

There's a bit of wisdom in the cable television business that states that most viewers can only keep in mind about ten or so channels at most (including broadcast channels) when deciding what to watch on television.  It seems very doubtful that the young adult male viewers needed by TNA would have WGN in mind.

Its more so that people only watch about 10-15 channels in general out of the 150+ that people get through cable and satellite providers.

Which only makes TNA's problems much greater. Hell, the WWE couldn't equal its USA ratings when it went over to the far less-known TNN (now Spike).

 

I suppose TNA's biggest plus is that lowering their ratings would take some serious effort --- and serious effort isn't what TNA is all about.

-=Mike

[Astro7x 0]

So, I'm wrong --- because a theory of yours, that you can't actually verify, MIGHT explain away ratings that --- and this should be noted --- haven't exactly IMPROVED.

It's not a theory, it's a rating that Nielsen Media Research measures, which would be more accurate in this situation. The share is more accurate because it is based off of how many people are watching TV at that time as opposed to total number of viewers possible, including those with their TVs off.

 

4pm on Friday isn't exactly a popular time slot to begin with.

 

And of course the share is going to be higher, because it's out of a smaller viewer base.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Umm, JJ would be wise to avoid a Monday night time slot on a station nobody watches to begin with.

 

Then again, he'd have a ready explanation for shitty ratings...

          -=Mike

WGN is available in over 65 million homes (which is more than TNT had when Nitro started or TNN had when they picked up ECW). 75% of those homes have WGN on channel 1-24, so the station is easy to find. It's a real sleeping giant of a network, and the Cubs still do great ratings for them.

 

If they're getting a primetime slot (or even a good slot as opposed to the afternoon crap), it'd be a great move. Not to mention Chicago is the natural place to center a promotion to compete with WWE.

 

There are also some very strong crossover opportunities with the Tribune newspapers (LA Times, Chicago Tribune and dozens of others) and the Tribune also owns TV stations all over the country (and part of the WB network). They're the fourth-largest media company in the US and produce quite a few TV shows as well.

 

The other thing is since WGN has little original programming, they run ads like crazy for what original programming they have. I saw a lot for some "Extreme Paintball" show that's starting in the *Fall* that airs on Saturday Mornings. They'll have a lot more support than they did at FSN.

 

I think the 8-10 EST slot on Mondays is open when they currently show movies and it would have minimal interference with sports.

Also, WGN channel 9 and WGN Superstation are different feeds sometimes. I could never watch that Blastoff show because in Chicago, there was just morning news on at the time. WGN should have the morning news nationwide, because they're funny in that "we can say whatever shit we want it doesn't really matter" way. They should carry more Cubs games. I don't care what they do with TNA.

 

Cute story, while we're talking about WGN: I was on the Bozo Show once, taped in November '94, aired February '95. I had to walk serpentine around a line of cones with a book on my head, which due to the shape of my head, I could not balance. I just held it there and handed it off to the other person on my team. Our team won the relay race. We won boxes of Matt's chocolate chip cookies and Little Mermaid hand-held games.

[Guest MikeSC]

So, I'm wrong --- because a theory of yours, that you can't actually verify, MIGHT explain away ratings that --- and this should be noted --- haven't exactly IMPROVED.

It's not a theory, it's a rating that Nielsen Media Research measures, which would be more accurate in this situation. The share is more accurate because it is based off of how many people are watching TV at that time as opposed to total number of viewers possible, including those with their TVs off.

 

4pm on Friday isn't exactly a popular time slot to begin with.

 

And of course the share is going to be higher, because it's out of a smaller viewer base.

The share is not going to suddenly make shitty numbers look good.

 

The share isn't going to suddenly hit a 3.0.

 

Why does it have such a shitty timeslot?

 

BECAUSE ITS RATINGS DON'T WARRANT ANYTHING BETTER.

 

If FSN thought the show would make them one red dime, they wouldn't be a PAID INFOMERCIAL (which, like it or not, is PRECISELY what Impact is). FSN clearly believes --- likely quite factually (considering that they actually have people who are on staff to determine ways to make some money) --- that the show is MORE profitable to them as an infomercial than it would be as a regular program.

-=Mike

[Astro7x 0]

The share gives a realistic number on how many people are watching...

 

And why would FSN even offer to pay TNA for their programming when TNA continues to pay for its time slot? We are not even counting advertising that FSN makes off of it. If it was a paid infomercial, then there would be no commercial breaks. And if there were commercials, then the commercials would be what pays for the TNA time slot. Commercials is the business model of traidional television. Major video games, microsoft products, priceline... all going back to FSN most likely if TNA is losing money on the deal.

 

If TNA is stupid enough to offer to pay for a time slot, pretty much hoping on using it to increase PPV sales, then why should FSN offer to pay for programming? That's just bad business negotiation on TNAs part. Yeah, they were looking for a way to get exposure out there, but its not working with their shitty time slot.

 

in the FSN/TNA case though, of course it's going to be more profitable for TNA to be an 'infomercial' because it's a dual revenue stream for FSN between paid time and commercials, not to mention all their local ads they get to insert in there to attract the different demographic that TNA brings in.

 

On the other hand, I am not surprised that nobody wants to take a risk on wrestling considering the death of WCW and ECW not many years behind us.

[Guest MikeSC]

The share gives a realistic number on how many people are watching...

 

And why would FSN even offer to pay TNA for their programming when TNA continues to pay for its time slot?

Because they'd imagine they would make more money taking a piece of advertising and using Impact to hype up their other shows.

 

They don't, because Impact isn't valuable enough.

 

Which is sad, considering how miniscule their audience is.

 

Oh, and the share simply reveals how tiny the audience is in copmparison with the total audience. It won't make the estimates that a 0.3 rating generates in terms of audience size any larger.

If it was a paid infomercial, then there would be no commercial breaks.

Actually, that is very much not the case. It's a paid infomercial and TNA has the ability to put whatever they want, within reason, in the show.

 

Note how the show's ads are, primarily, for TNA products?

 

There's a reason.

We are not even counting advertising that FSN makes off of it.    And if there were commercials, then the commercials would be what pays for the TNA time slot.

That is, flat out, wrong. TNA pays a flat fee for the time slot and try to sell ads themselves in a vain attempt to recoup the losses of the timeslot.

Commercials is the business model of traidional television.  Major video games, microsoft products, priceline... all going back to FSN most likely if TNA is losing money on the deal.

I will heavily advise you to not make comments when you are not certain what you're talking about.

 

TNA's deal was discussed, in some depth, here back when the show first started.

If TNA is stupid enough to offer to pay for a time slot, pretty much hoping on using it to increase PPV sales, then why should FSN offer to pay for programming?  That's just bad business negotiation on TNAs part.  Yeah, they were looking for a way to get exposure out there, but its not working with their shitty time slot.

And FSN's goal is to increase viewership. Impact is CLEARLY not the vehicle to do that with.

 

If TNA increased viewers, FSN would not force them to pay for their timeslot. If the checks ever didn't clear, Impact would be yanked off the air immediately.

 

Which makes you wonder why the hell WGN would treat TNA any differently.

 

Then you realize they wouldn't. If TNA gets on WGN (QUITE the accomplishment --- getting on a third-tier channel that nobody watches presently is something I'd strive for), they'd have the same horrible deal that is an albatross to them now.

in the FSN/TNA case though, of course it's going to be more profitable for TNA to be an 'infomercial' because it's a dual revenue stream for FSN between paid time and commercials, not to mention all their local ads they get to insert in there to attract the different demographic that TNA brings in.

FSN makes no money off any ads in Impact. All that money ("All" being quite the relative term as some might, mistakenly, assume it's considerable) goes to TNA.

On the other hand, I am not surprised that nobody wants to take a risk on wrestling considering the death of WCW and ECW not many years behind us.

And the fact that TNA's business model is worse than ECW's and profitability is worse than WCW's.

-=Mike

[TheBigSwigg 0]

Mike, unless you have a copy of the legal contract between TNA and FSN, you shouldn't talk about their deal like you're their fucking lawyer.

 

And if TNA increased their viewership, why would FSN change the setup? They're making money off of TNA right now as it is, and TNA OBVIOUSLY isn't selling advertising. (And no, it's not just that wrestling doesn't sell advertising)

[Guest MikeSC]

Mike, unless you have a copy of the legal contract between TNA and FSN, you shouldn't talk about their deal like you're their fucking lawyer.

The FUCKING TERMS were CLEARLY expressed at the time of the fucking deal.

 

It's not my fault if YOU fucking missed it.

And if TNA increased their viewership, why would FSN change the setup?  They're making money off of TNA right now as it is, and TNA OBVIOUSLY isn't selling advertising. (And no, it's not just that wrestling doesn't sell advertising)

Because FSN would want to KEEP the program rather than risk losing it. You know, the same reason channels pay for programming in other cases. You know, like how Spike pays for RAW.

 

Well they would, provided, Impact brought in viewers.

 

Which it doesn't.

-=Mike

[Astro7x 0]

Oh, and the share simply reveals how tiny the audience is in copmparison with the total audience. It won't make the estimates that a 0.3 rating generates in terms of audience size any larger.

 

That's exactly what I have been saying the whole time. I never said it makes the audience size larger.

 

Note how the show's ads are, primarily, for TNA products?

 

It's no different than how WWE inserts their own ads before commercial breaks. It still comes out of their programming time, just that its designed to look like a commercial.

 

Because FSN would want to KEEP the program rather than risk losing it. You know, the same reason channels pay for programming in other cases. You know, like how Spike pays for RAW.

 

But if TNA is truely doing as bad as you say they are... they are not getting offers from other from other television stations, and even if they did lose TNA, it's no loss on FSNs part based on how horrible the ratings are. It's no different than an infomercial. When one company stops paying for their spot, you find something to replace it.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

The FUCKING TERMS were CLEARLY expressed at the time of the fucking deal.

How much are they paying for their time? If they sell advertising does FSN get the money or TNA? How long is the contract? What's the rate for renewal? Is there a mutual option out? What happens if TNA's content is found unacceptable by FSN officials? Does TNA have to pay for the spot when the show is pre-empted in a market? If not, how much less do they get to pay? Does TNA get guaranteed cross-promotion? If so, what are the terms?

 

I'd like to see legal copy, and not word of mouth off the internet, please.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I need some clarification about WGN...

 

In the early 90s the cable company here (in Southern Ontario) offered 4 "Superstations" that you needed a PPV decoder for (which we had to get the debuting PPV, SummerSlam 92)... WGN (Chicago), WSBK (Boston), KTLA (L.A.) and WTBS (Atlanta / Nationwide).

 

By the mid 90s 3 of these stations were uncessary as WGN and KTLA had both become WB affiliates and WSBK became UPN. They were just showing the same shows we could get on the WB station from Detroit with minor differences (KTLA being time-shifted by 3 hours and different syndicated programming). By 1998 we no longer subscribed to these channels (TBS had shifted into the premium block of cable cable channels and didn't require the decoder) and by 2000 they were removed from our cable's analog cable package offerings all together.

 

So I'm either not correctly remembering WGN outliving it's usefulness as an independant superstation or things have changed and I'm out of the loop.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

I wonder if it will air before the Family Matters reruns and after the Charles in Charge marathon, or after Charles in Charge and before the Family Matters marathon.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Theres no way they can have a standardized time slot with the amount of sports games that they televise.

[Guest MikeSC]

Because FSN would want to KEEP the program rather than risk losing it. You know, the same reason channels pay for programming in other cases. You know, like how Spike pays for RAW.

But if TNA is truely doing as bad as you say they are... they are not getting offers from other from other television stations, and even if they did lose TNA, it's no loss on FSNs part based on how horrible the ratings are. It's no different than an infomercial. When one company stops paying for their spot, you find something to replace it.

Yes, you're right.

 

Of course, which isn't exactly praise of TNA's infamous inability to draw an audience.

How much are they paying for their time?

Between $25,000 and $45,000 per episode.

If they sell advertising does FSN get the money or TNA?

TNA

How long is the contract?

1 year renewable.

Does TNA have to pay for the spot when the show is pre-empted in a market?

Yes.

Does TNA get guaranteed cross-promotion?

No. Obviously no.

I'd like to see legal copy, and not word of mouth off the internet, please.

You'd also like to see TNA get a rating that is less than humiliating.

 

That isn't forthcoming EITHER.

-=Mike

[ISportsFan 0]

need some clarification about WGN...

 

In the early 90s the cable company here (in Southern Ontario) offered 4 "Superstations" that you needed a PPV decoder for (which we had to get the debuting PPV, SummerSlam 92)... WGN (Chicago), WSBK (Boston), KTLA (L.A.) and WTBS (Atlanta / Nationwide).

 

By the mid 90s 3 of these stations were uncessary as WGN and KTLA had both become WB affiliates and WSBK became UPN. They were just showing the same shows we could get on the WB station from Detroit with minor differences (KTLA being time-shifted by 3 hours and different syndicated programming). By 1998 we no longer subscribed to these channels (TBS had shifted into the premium block of cable cable channels and didn't require the decoder) and by 2000 they were removed from our cable's analog cable package offerings all together.

 

So I'm either not correctly remembering WGN outliving it's usefulness as an independant superstation or things have changed and I'm out of the loop.

 

WGN is a WB affiliate in the Chicago area, but also is a "superstation" nationally, with different programming in the Chicago area and nationwide. I live in the suburbs of Chicago when I'm not at college, and there are two separate feeds in the two different areas.

 

Jason

[Fro 0]

Theres no way they can have a standardized time slot with the amount of sports games that they televise.

The Monday night time slot for WGN is open except for a couple Cubs games between now and October... it's not going to be a huge problem. There are no White Sox games on Monday nights.

 

Upon doing some research, there was one Bulls game on a Monday night in the past year.

 

Here's the Paintball League they're showing... if they'll show this they'll give TNA a good slot. http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/tvstation...t_id=1000853219

[Carnival 0]

Mike seems to forget that Impact is FSN's highest rated show.

 

Best Damn Sport Show Period gets 0.3

 

Last i heard Impact was lower than that. But if mike says it's getting 0.3, then that means it's #2 if not #1.

[Guest MikeSC]

Mike seems to forget that Impact is FSN's highest rated show.

 

Best Damn Sport Show Period gets 0.3

 

Last i heard Impact was lower than that. But if mike says it's getting 0.3, then that means it's #2 if not #1.

"FSN's highest rated show" is one of the biggest back-handed compliments out there.

-=Mike

[The Czech Republic 0]

You guys, you no-sold my Bozo story. My childhood is much more important and compelling than some indie fed.

[Carnival 0]

You guys, you no-sold my Bozo story. My childhood is much more important and compelling than some indie fed.

I got a laugh out of it. It's pretty cool...i remember watching that shit. But i was always kinda scared of him.

 

I assume Bozo's show was based in Chicago?

[Carnival 0]

Mike seems to forget that Impact is FSN's highest rated show.

 

Best Damn Sport Show Period gets 0.3

 

Last i heard Impact was lower than that. But if mike says it's getting 0.3, then that means it's #2 if not #1.

"FSN's highest rated show" is one of the biggest back-handed compliments out there.

-=Mike

It's not meant to be compliment. Just stating a fact.

[The Czech Republic 0]

You guys, you no-sold my Bozo story. My childhood is much more important and compelling than some indie fed.

I got a laugh out of it. It's pretty cool...i remember watching that shit. But i was always kinda scared of him.

 

I assume Bozo's show was based in Chicago?

I understand there were several Bozoes, but the longest-running and best-known Bozo was taped at channel 9's studio. It was smaller than you thought!

[A Happy Medium 0]

I used to watch Bozo back when I was young on Sunday mornings.

 

I always thought the ball buckets were the hardest tasks for the kids. At the end, kids were tossing balls ten feet.

 

At least their news team is pretty good. Tom Skilling and Dan Roan kick ass.

[Carnival 0]

HAppy Medium...What is that craziness in your sig. It scares me.

[Fro 0]

According to the Observer this week, the WGN deal involves going on at 9 pm on Monday nights, and TNA is leaning very strongly towards taking it. This could start as soon as June.

 

They need to take this deal ASAP.

[Carnival 0]

*poops pants*

 

They got some balls, here we go with the monday night wars..AGAIN!!!!

 

When it's over the WWE will call this one "The Monday Night Annoyance"