One and Only Star Wars Geekiness Thread

[Justice 0]

Maddox is good for a laugh.  But that's about it, as far as his writing goes.

 

RobotJerk:  Personally, I'm hoping for something at least semi-official sooner or later in the EU.  Maybe even explore it in one of the TV series or something.  I wasn't looking for debate, just putting forth my thoughts.  I think Lucas dropped the ball by not spelling it out in Ep. II.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, they did, though in a really obscure place. I play WH40K, so I went down to a local hobby shop to check out the stock, and there were a bunch of Star Wars books for playing RPGs, I guess. Anyways, one of them just on planets, and looking through a few of the entries, I came across the Kamino one, which says it was actually Dooku, who took the guise of Sifo-Dias.

 

Yeah, so completely unreleated geekery actually resulted in an answer to that one.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

The Trade Federation wasn't supposed to be strong. They're commerce guys, they don't want to get their hands dirty w/ fighting. That's why they built robots to do that for them. Besides, Palpatine needed a group he could manipulate easily, and could just as easily dispose of when he was done with them.

[CBright7831 0]

It just wasn't the Trade Federation (Nute Gunray, Rune Haako, Lott Dod, Daltauy Dofine) either. You had the Techno Union (Wat Tambor), the Intergalactic Banking Clan (San Hill), the Corporate Alliance (Passel Argente), the Commerce Guild (Shu Mai) , some members of the Galatic Senate (Passel Argente, Po Nudo), and some other powerful members like organizations that excelled in bulding weapons (Poggle The Lesser).

 

The Trade Federation was just the main one. They were powerful enough to have their own seat in the Senate. They started the whole thing because of the high tarriffs put on them thanks to the Galatic Senate (which Palpatine was in support of). Then Darth Sidious contacted Viceroy Gunray and that's where the events in The Phantom Menace begin.

 

Goddamn, I'm such a nerd. Fuck it though.

Edited June 2, 2005 by CBright7831

[cabbageboy 0]

Where did you find all that shit out, CBright? It scares me that someone would be THAT into the Trade Federation. I don't remember any of those other gimps even being mentioned in the films.

 

I know the Trade Federation wasn't supposed to be strong, total chickenshit heels. The problem is though that I never found the whole scheme of Palpatine manipulating them all that coherent in Phantom Menace, mainly because Palpatine/Sidious doesn't get much screen time in it (neither does Maul for that matter). Basically we are thus stuck with the Trade Federation as the main heels in that film, and they suck.

[Rendclaw 0]

By taking out the people who were most vocal about their beliefs and willing to rise up against the Republic because of them, Palpatine crushed a huge possible threat to his Empire.

 

True. When Gunray was talking about peace, I imagine he thought that they would become seperate from the Republic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. As I said to someone I work with who is as much of a Star Wars fan as I am if not more so, the manipulative powers of Palpatine can never be overstated. It awes me in some ways to have that many balls in the air and have them come down pretty much exactly as he wanted them too. He played up the fears of the Senate, The Jedi, The Trade Federation, and they reacted almost exactly how he wanted them to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah...the only wild card that messed everything up for him at the end was Luke helping Anakin good again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

By the time Jedi rolled around which was what, 23-25 years after Sith, Palpatine thought no one except Luke could challenge and defeat him, and so he decided to do what he did with Anakin and Dooku, which was try to manipulate Luke into turning to the dark side. It almost worked, but Luke was made of stronger stuff. He got overconfident, and he paid the price in the end.

 

Also, I can;t remember the name of the book, but its one that my aforementioned co-worker is reading, and it basically goes into more depth about how Palpatine was playing both sides against each other and how he undermined Chancellor Valoran's power base.

Edited June 2, 2005 by Rendclaw

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

The problem is though that I never found the whole scheme of Palpatine manipulating them all that coherent in Phantom Menace, mainly because Palpatine/Sidious doesn't get much screen time in it (neither does Maul for that matter).

There was at least 1 instance of hologram Sidious instructing the Trade Fed. on what to do.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah I know, it was at the beginning of the film...thing is, the first time I watched it I didn't make hardly any connection between Palpatine and the Emperor/Sidious. I mean, I inferred it but it was never particularly well explained. I didn't understand who the Trade Federation even WERE at first, or why Sidious was involved with them, etc.

 

For films supposedly aimed at kids the prequels don't have exactly mainstream storytelling.

[Guest jm29195]

I thought it was very clever how they brought about the change in perspective midway through ROTS with the majority of the guys you've been supporting throughout the prequels turning bad and the seperatists being revealed as being in the same boat.... I mean you knew it had to happen but it was still thought provoking, how Palpatine is really the only bad guy and manipulates everyone else into wanting to carry on fighting until he gets what he wants...

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Maddox is good for a laugh.  But that's about it, as far as his writing goes.

 

RobotJerk:  Personally, I'm hoping for something at least semi-official sooner or later in the EU.  Maybe even explore it in one of the TV series or something.  I wasn't looking for debate, just putting forth my thoughts.  I think Lucas dropped the ball by not spelling it out in Ep. II.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, they did, though in a really obscure place. I play WH40K, so I went down to a local hobby shop to check out the stock, and there were a bunch of Star Wars books for playing RPGs, I guess. Anyways, one of them just on planets, and looking through a few of the entries, I came across the Kamino one, which says it was actually Dooku, who took the guise of Sifo-Dias.

 

Yeah, so completely unreleated geekery actually resulted in an answer to that one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow, another WH40K fan! Sweet.

 

That's really all I had. Please continue.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

thing is, the first time I watched it I didn't make hardly any connection between Palpatine and the Emperor/Sidious. I mean, I inferred it but it was never particularly well explained.

Not to sound condescending, but how familiar are you w/ the original trilogy? Because any knowledgeable star Wars fan knows that the Emperor's name was Palpatine.

[pochorenella 0]

It just wasn't the Trade Federation (Nute Gunray, Rune Haako, Lott Dod, Daltauy Dofine) either. You had the Techno Union (Wat Tambor), the Intergalactic Banking Clan (San Hill), the Corporate Alliance (Passel Argente), the Commerce Guild (Shu Mai) , some members of the Galatic Senate (Passel Argente, Po Nudo), and some other powerful members like organizations that excelled in bulding weapons (Poggle The Lesser).

 

The Trade Federation was just the main one. They were powerful enough to have their own seat in the Senate. They started the whole thing because of the high tarriffs put on them thanks to the Galatic Senate (which Palpatine was in support of). Then Darth Sidious contacted Viceroy Gunray and that's where the events in The Phantom Menace begin.

 

Goddamn, I'm such a nerd. Fuck it though

 

Don't worry about it, man. Many of us are, it's just different degrees of nerdiness. From now on I plead to you to ALWAYS name the characters whenever possible, no matter how obscure they are.

[Justice 0]

Indeed. Cadian Shock Trooper guy.

 

But recently I actually watched Episode I again, and I think I'll rate it above Episode II.

 

While Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd are horrible, I think that, in all honesty, it's a much better film than I previously thought. First off, the pacing is pretty good: The beginning is an excellent way to introduce the Jedi and the Trade Federation, and the Invasion of Naboo. Moving to Tatooine is perhaps the slowest part, but overall the film has a pretty good rhythm to it that maybe I just didn't realize until after watching it after the last two films. The storyline is okay as an opening act, even thuogh they could have done more, I can't fault the movie itself for that.

 

And it has soem of the strongest acting in the prequel trilogy. Natalie Portman is actually pretty good as Amidala in this one; she doesn't seem to be sleepwalking through it all (Perhaps because aren't hokey love-lines to spout in this one?). Ewan McGregor is BRILLIANT as Obi-Wan back when he was a Padawan, and it's really interesting looking back and seeing how they aged him so well so-as to make it seem a bit believable. Liam Neeson is great as the consumate Jedi Master Qui-Gon, and you actually see a little of what Obi-Wan picked up from him in Alec Guinness. Darth Maul is actually a fairly interesting villian as he's set up, even if he doesn't talk at all. I'd argue that despite Jar Jar and the HORRIBLE Jake Lloyd, the acting overall was better.

 

Lastly, the ending action sequence (And I'd say the action sequences overall), overall, was better in Ep I. The Jedi battle between Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan and Darth Maul just seems a bit more natural and less, well, arbitrary. The Dooku fight seems more to say "Hey, Yoda can fight!" instead of the Qui-Gon fight, where Maul is there to stop both the Jedi once and for all. Hell, and I'm a huge fan of Dooku, too. And compare the beginnings: The opening action seems so much better imo just because it feels more necessary and less showy; it seems to be used more to help a plot point rather than showing off special effects (Which the 2nd one is rife with). So after rewatching the first movie, it seems to have the advantage of flow and stand-out performances over Ep II. That, and no horribly-executed love plot.

 

I guess that puts it at #5 rather than #6 now.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Bah, IG suck . They make a great meat shield for Space Marines though.

 

Anyway, I have always rated Maul/Kenobi/Qui-Gon as one of, if not my personal, favorite. You've got Maul busting out the DOUBLE-SIDED SABER~! for the first time, the unexpected break in the middle with the seemingly uneccessary rotating shields, Dui-Gon taking the blade in the gut, then a mere Padawan proving that he has learned his lessons well and besting Maul. I would have loved to have seen Maul last a bit longer into the series, but I guess they needed to establish Tyranus/Dooku as the main player in the conspiracy.

 

I still don't particularly care for the movie as a whole though. I thought I'd pop my eardrums if I had heard Lloyd yell, "Yippee!" one more time.

Edited June 3, 2005 by Conspiracy_Victim

[cabbageboy 0]

I guess I wasn't totally clear...it's not that I didn't know that Palpatine was the Emperor/Sidious, it's just that it wasn't a coherent concept that was clear in the film. As in if you had never seen a Star Wars movie before, would you make the connection?

 

Phantom Menace is simply way too kiddie oriented to appeal to me at this point. Saying Jar Jar sucks and dismissing it is almost impossible...he's all over the film. He's in it, that Mexican Fly slaveowner dude is in it, the Trade Federation are the main heels....it blows. As far as Maul goes, he looks cool, has a cool lightsaber, but he is essentially a nothing character. Dooku is a vastly better character, possibly because he's played by a real actor.

[Guest SP-1]

Maul/Obi-Wan is the best duel of the 6, in my personal opinion. Obi faught with controlled anger and channeled it into the right places instead of letting it consume him.

[Guest Ether]

Finally saw it. Actually saw it on Memorial Day, but I wanted to read all the posts before I butted it.

 

I enjoyed the movie. The only downside I had with it was knowing what was going to happen. Part of it was spoilers about the movie itself such as choking Padme and all the Jedi being killed, etc, but the fact that everybody knows what would ultimately happen : Anakin Skywalker falling to the Dark Side and becoming Darth Vader. I guess as far as what order to have someone watch them in, storywise I guess which moment do you want unspoiled: Anakin becoming Darth Vader or Luke finding out Vader is his father (would someone who know nothing about Star Wars see Anakin's turn coming?)

 

Also, I'm disappointed that after 32 pages no one talked about the one flaw in ROTJ: all those innocents being killed when the second Death Star is blown up

 

EDIT: I couldn't get the spoiler tags to work. I'm figuring that anybody reading this at this point knows what happen. Sorry if I screwed it up for someone.

Edited June 3, 2005 by Ether

[Justice 0]

Father, without a doubt. That's one of the greatest moments in movie history because it's one of those twists that you didn't think about, but when you look at it, makes perfect sense. Anakin becoming Vader completely hinges on you knowing who Vader is beforehand, imo.

[Guest Askewniverse]

Also, I'm disappointed that after 32 pages no one talked about the one flaw in ROTJ: all those innocents being killed when the second Death Star is blown up

Those independent contractors knew what they were getting into.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Just saw it again tonight, and I wanted to add this. Most of you won't like it, but I think the movie could actually do with MORE PAdme/Anakin scenes. Yes, MORE.

 

It all comes down to a problem that has been prevailent in all of the movies- the pacing of the story. Everything happens so damned fast in the OT, and in the PT. For instance- Han saying that Cloud City was a long ways away, and yet not only did he seem to make it there uber-fast, so did Luke in his X-Wing. Events in the Star Wars univers just seem to flow to fast, and unfortunately they have to, unless we want a four-hour movie.

There was so much side-story in the book that got cut beause of this- Padme ralling support against Palpatine, for one, and Anakin's motivation behind wanting to become a Master, which was unrestricted access to the archives so he could find out how to save Padme.

 

I'm looking forward to the DVD release to see all of the deleted scenes now.

[ZGangsta 0]

For instance- Han saying that Cloud City was a long ways away, and yet not only did he seem to make it there uber-fast, so did Luke in his X-Wing. Events in the Star Wars univers just seem to flow to fast, and unfortunately they have to, unless we want a four-hour movie.

We already established the answer to all that. It took months to get to CC for the Falcon (during which wacky sitcom hijinks ensued), so Luke's training went on during that trip. And then when Luke needed to get there, his X-Wing still had a working hyperdrive.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I know that, Gangsta. I'm just saying that, by watching the movies, it's hard to infer the time passage. It just seems that only days past. In Ep 3, the events actually took a few months in the book, but it only seemed to take a couple of days in the movie. That's my complaint.

[Guest Ether]

Also, I'm disappointed that after 32 pages no one talked about the one flaw in ROTJ: all those innocents being killed when the second Death Star is blown up

Those independent contractors knew what they were getting into.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

HaHa! There we go! And how appropriate; someone with a Jay and Silent Bob avatar.

 

On a more serious note, two observations that I don't think have been mentioned, and a question:

 

1. Vader not knowing about Luke and Leia: Keep in mind when we last be Padme at the funeral, she still had the belly of a pregnant woman. "News reports" would say that she died pregnant. Only Yoda, Obi-Wan, the adoptive parents, and some droids would know otherwise.

 

2. Obi-Wan beating Anakin even though Anakin was clearly stronger: You're forgetting the rule that is famous in wrestling. That is, when someone turns heel, they lose all abilities and have to cheat and/or rely on others to win. Sidious didn't do his run-in in time, and there really is no other way to cheat in a lightsaber battle in a river of lava, so Obi-Wan wins the match.

 

This is a dumb question, but is Kashyyyk mentioned anywhere else in the Star Wars universe besides the Knights of the Old Republic game? I'm sure that it is, but as a huge fan of KOTOR, it would have been really cool if Lucas used an idea from that game.

[pochorenella 0]

Father, without a doubt. That's one of the greatest moments in movie history because it's one of those twists that you didn't think about, but when you look at it, makes perfect sense. Anakin becoming Vader completely hinges on you knowing who Vader is beforehand, imo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's a very funny discussion about this topic between Randall and Dante on the "Clerks" movie. Kevin Smith fans will know what I'm talking about. If not, check it out 'cause it's funny shit.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Just saw it again tonight, and I wanted to add this. Most of you won't like it, but I think the movie could actually do with MORE PAdme/Anakin scenes. Yes, MORE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

With different actors sure. My main problem with Ep III was the complete and total lack of any kind of chemistry between Christensen and Portman. R2D2 showed more emotion then those two when they were on screen. It was really painful to watch. I don't even think it was the script (although it was cheesy), rather they just simply didn't mesh well at all.

[Special K 0]

^ ^ ditto Crimson

 

Christensen was adequate, except for the scenes with Portman.

There's little doubt that Portman can definitely be a good actress, yet she was bad in eps II & III. This would suggest to me bad DIRECTING. Lucas probably wanted them to read in this really flat manner, thinking it would make them seem really earnest or something, when in fact it came off as the two leads not really giving a shit.

[Rendclaw 0]

I have to agree with that, they didn;t have a lot of chemistry in either Clones or Sith, but since when was any of the Star Wars movies aside from ESB about dialogue?? If the thrid trilogy gets made, I just hope that a director is hired who is able to pull something out of his actors.

[Alro 0]

This is a dumb question, but is Kashyyyk mentioned anywhere else in the Star Wars universe besides the Knights of the Old Republic game?  I'm sure that it is, but as a huge fan of KOTOR, it would have been really cool if Lucas used an idea from that game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would assume it was in the SW Holiday Special since the plot revolves around the cast going the Chewie's home planet to celebrate the Life Day, the Wookiee equivalent of Christmas.

[Art Sandusky 0]

It was also mentioned in numerous books and the like way before KOTOR.

[CBright7831 0]

Also, I'm disappointed that after 32 pages no one talked about the one flaw in ROTJ: all those innocents being killed when the second Death Star is blown up

Those independent contractors knew what they were getting into.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is a dumb question, but is Kashyyyk mentioned anywhere else in the Star Wars universe besides the Knights of the Old Republic game? I'm sure that it is, but as a huge fan of KOTOR, it would have been really cool if Lucas used an idea from that game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It was featured in the Star Wars Christmas Special and it was much different than the planet we see in Episode III.

[Anakin Flair 0]

quick question- Order 66- was it only for killing the Jedi? Or was it also an order to occupy the planets the Clones were on? I ask because it seemed like the clones were killing the Wookies (or just didn't care that they were dead) after the order was given.