Whose got the more "Flair"

[Guest JoeJoe]

Yea, these guys are the total package in my eyes. We all keep hearing how Flair says Trips is the greatest wrestler alive today, how he knows and understands the business inside out yada yada..But you guys tell me, whose the next best blend of all the goods since Ric Flair of the 80's? Inring talent, workrate, versatility, charisma, mic skills, face/heel..you name it. Whose the guy thats got it all..

 

My choice would be Kurt Angle.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

Christian. But he hasn't got the chance at the top yet. God I love Christian.

[CanadianChick 0]

Christian. But he hasn't got the chance at the top yet. God I love Christian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In ring talent, and work rate Christian lacks. Sorry, but he's boring in the ring without a partner and/or a ladder.

[Copper Feel 0]

Christian lacks work rate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Are you suggesting that Christian doesent try hard?

[Dangerous A 0]

CanadianChick is all over it in regards to Christian. I mean, I love the guy, but his in ring is not ME caliber yet. (then again, neither is Batista or Cena and they are the champs)

 

I'd like to think that those guys would rather not be the "next" Flair, but rather just have their legacy as who they are. I'd much rather be known as the first DA then the next *insert name here*, get my drift?

[CanadianChick 0]

Christian lacks work rate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Are you suggesting that Christian doesent try hard?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Punch, punch, kick, choke, resthold, signiture spot, ect.

 

His matches are all the same and hey, when he is using a resthold in a 3 minute match, maybe, just maybe....

[Carnival 0]

Shawn Michaels

[The Decemberists 0]

His matches are all the same and hey, when he is using a resthold in a 3 minute match, maybe, just maybe....

 

But in the match he doesn't know it's only going to last three minutes, so the rest hold is there as he's saving energy for later in the match should it go 20/30m are whatever.

 

Anyway.

 

Michaels is my answer.

[Guest Coffey]

It probably used to be Shawn Michaels but it's not anymore. His promo style has changed drastically since he found religion. Not only that but his face act is bland and boring. He still has occasional gold nuggets but they're few and far between. His Gold Rush match with Shelton is a good example.

 

Speaking of bland and boring, that's how Triple H comes off on the microphone. He hammers his point home in the first thirty seconds or so and then just keeps repeating himself until twenty minutes have passed.

 

Kurt Angle is great as a goofy character. As a serious character, he has a lot of trouble pulling it off. His delivery on the mic for serious promo's comes off sounding like a cartoon. It's unbelivable. He doesn't seem to be a big fan of selling in the ring either.

 

I don't think it's any of those three. They are all missing something. I think that HBK is the closest of those three though. He was a great, cocky heel. He doesn't seem to be too big a fan of psychology however, and that hurts him.

 

I think that Triple H is the best of the three in the ring. I don't know how many would agree with that. I'm just a fan of his style I guess. He has great facial expressions, a good moveset, great psychology and he's a big bumper and good seller. If he wasn't so boring on the microphone and he's lose some blowoff matches, he'd be a lot better.

 

I think the closest, actually, would be Eddy Guerrero. He has the work rate, the psychology, the charisma. He can work heel or face. He can make the crowds care.

[The Buzz 0]

I agree on Guerrero.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Buddy Landell

 

or Shane Douglas

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

There is only one guy on the roster right now that comes close to being the total package and it is Eddy Guerrero. But to be honest, I don't see anybody being at the level at the moment. The closest was probably Austin in his heyday. He could do everything, especially pre-injury.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Flair's matches have always seemed very repetitive to me. I'm not sure where all these snowflakes come from(Especially for his armdrag contests with Ricky Steamboat), but maybe I just don't understand "psychology" and the importance of "working the body"... Michaels face promos have always been poor, and he isn't even close to where he was 8 years ago, in any aspect. I agree 110% with Coffey about Kurt Angle, he simply cannot cut a serious promo. Eddie Guerrero and Chris Jericho(pre-2003) are the closest anyone has come to the total package, IMO.

 

Triple H is a glorified midcarder. He has no more talent than guys like Val Venis, Edge and Bob Holly, who could of been just as successful if they were given the God push Triple H has been given. There is absolutely nothing special about him in any way whatsoever.

[Kardo 0]

Triple H is a glorified midcarder. He has no more talent than guys like Val Venis, Edge and Bob Holly, who could of been just as successful if they were given the God push Triple H has been given. There is absolutely nothing special about him in any way whatsoever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Val is excellent when he's let go. His selling and wrestling ability stand out over most people in the WWE, just hasn't been given the chance.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

Pre-finding Jesus Christ Shawn Michaels.

[The Dames 0]

I would agree, UYI. Shawn is still a great worker, but in his prime, he was on his way to being one of the greatest of all time. Even Flair himself says so.

 

Dames

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Triple H is a glorified midcarder. He has no more talent than guys like Val Venis, Edge and Bob Holly, who could of been just as successful if they were given the God push Triple H has been given. There is absolutely nothing special about him in any way whatsoever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Val is excellent when he's let go. His selling and wrestling ability stand out over most people in the WWE, just hasn't been given the chance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, I think he might have more talent than Triple H, it's that awful gimmick that continues to haunt his career which is keeping him back.

 

I was just trying to point out that any decent midcarder could have done what Triple H did, unlike guys like Rock, Austin, Hogan and Flair, who were in fact, special performers.

[Si82 0]

Eddie Guerrero.

 

The man is extremely talented.

 

He's excellent in the ring, has a ton of charisma, can work well as a face or heel and the people really seem to care about him.

 

I'd say that gives him "Flair".

[Shanghai Kid 0]

HBK is still putting on good matches, but I'll take Shawn Micheals from his prime over most other guys especially as far as being the most Flair like. I thought he perfected working as a face as far as perfectly timing his comebacks and getting the crowd into the match, and I thought he perfected being a heel in the ring also.

 

Eddie Guerrerro definetly also, he has the total backage. but me Chris Jericho hasn't been great in a long time from an in ring and a promo/character standpoint. He'll NEVER match his heel work from 97-98 WCW as far as promos go, but even his matches and moveset have been very repetitive to me and I don't think he gets the crowd into his matches anymore at all.

[Guest JoeJoe]

HBK is still putting on good matches, but I'll take Shawn Micheals from his prime over most other guys especially as far as being the most Flair like.  I thought he perfected working as a face as far as perfectly timing his comebacks and getting the crowd into the match, and I thought he perfected being a heel in the ring also.

 

Eddie Guerrerro definetly also,  he has the total backage.  but me Chris Jericho hasn't been great in a long time from an in ring and a promo/character standpoint.  He'll NEVER match his heel work from 97-98 WCW as far as promos go, but even his matches and moveset have been very repetitive to me and I don't think he gets the crowd into his matches anymore at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In reference to heel/face.

The thing with Michales is, he isn't working heel now. He's playing the total pure white bayface, something which disappared when the Attitude era came into being and the anti-hero was cheered. While we can all praise him for bringing back an aspect of an era long lost, he doesn't have the slightist heel dimension to him, while Angle can do both face and heel at any given moment. That itself prevents Michales from being a total package. Even now, Flair can play both heel & face. HBK can't.

But of course, from a career standpoint, Michales has played the most hated heel, and even the most beloved bayface. If we go by that, and the ability to drag out a great match out of just about anybody, god I'd even put him ahead of Ric Flair. Seriously.

 

I totally disagree with Guerreo having "Flair" in him though. The guy gives off a midcard vibe that makes Rey Mysterio look like a maineventer. In all seriousness, Eddie Geurrero can only be two things: Goofy and Angry. He just doesn't make me want to call him "Champ" like the other guys I mentioned. He had a nice little flashy gimmick as a face a few months back, but I wouldn't put him in the league of a Flair or a Michales or an Angle.

[Dark Age 0]

Oh man, you're so wrong. Eddie's WAYYYYY better than Angle, Shawn or Hunter.

 

 

What can Hunter do other than "angry"? What can Kurt do other than "intense" and "goofy"? What can Shawn do other than "cocky" and "cocky but not quite as cocky"? Don't reply listing other things they can do - I'm not interested. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to say that Eddie is limited to "goofy" and "angry". Go read DEAN'S SD Comix, and learn how it's all in the eyes. Eddie > you. I'm going to stop now, and not even deal with the "not in the league of the other three" comment, because I'm just getting angry and goofy now.

[Guest JoeJoe]

Oh man, you're so wrong. Eddie's WAYYYYY better than Angle, Shawn or Hunter.

 

 

What can Hunter do other than "angry"? What can Kurt do other than "intense" and "goofy"? What can Shawn do other than "cocky" and "cocky but not quite as cocky"? Don't reply listing other things they can do - I'm not interested. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to say that Eddie is limited to "goofy" and "angry". Go read DEAN'S SD Comix, and learn how it's all in the eyes. Eddie > you. I'm going to stop now, and not even deal with the "not in the league of the other three" comment, because I'm just getting angry and goofy now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shawn Michales has gone from playing the dastdardly heel to the cocky heel to the chickenshit heel to the underdog face to the god given superpower face to the pitbull. The guy has had so many dimensions to him throughout his career, each year from 92-98 he looked to me like a different person, just with the same music and charisma.

 

Eddie Guerreo..I'd say Chavo Guerreo has better charisma and mic skills than him. He was enjoyable as a face, and obviously after turning on REY is the top heel on Smackdown..but Eddie Geurreo without a belt yells out to me "Velocity ! Velocity! Velocity!". Eddie Guerreo is obvioulsy one of the top performers of the company at present, but damn, please don't put him that elite category. Give Jericho the ball Eddie had, he'd to 10 times better.

[Dark Age 0]

Oh man, you're a fool. A damn fool.

 

Nevermind that I told you NOT to name other examples of what Shawn (or the other two) can do, as I'm not interested in that. I was pointing out how silly your statement was in regards to Eddie (can only show "anger" or "goofiness").

 

Give me an example of Chavo being better than Eddie on the mic. Want an example of Eddie being better than, not only Chavo, but all three of the guys YOU listed? Ok. Eddie's two promos on Brock before NWO04. Both better than anything all the other three have done. How about his promo on Rey just recently? Smokes any Chavo interview. Was better than any Angle or Triple H interview. Heck, check out his promo the week after losing the belts to the Bashams in 03.

 

DO NOT MAKE ME LAUGH! Chavo more charismatic than Eddie? What are you on? When has Chavo EVER shown more charisma than Eddie? When has TRIPLE H?

 

Eddie, without a belt, yelling out to you "Velocity!" shows what a complete and utter tool you are. You don't even know the guy's name, for God's sake!

 

Oh I will put Eddie in the elite category, simply for the fact that he's BETTER than EVERYONE in the company. I love Chris Jericho, but he is NOT, in any way, shape or form, better than Eddie Guerrero.

[Guest JoeJoe]

Oh I'm a fool. Oh. ;/

 

Chavo a wayyy better talker than Eddie. And that shows on the mic. Eddie, face or heel, can't put a damn sentnece together. oh yeah, I've even heard him on ByteThis, the guy talks worse than Benoit.

 

Eddie's Latino Heat got on bigtime with the fans in 2004, and that I consider to be his best ever year of his career. And now's he's playing a top heel which is also good for his career. But thats about it. Donot ever put a Guerero in the category of a Flair, Michaels or Angle. Because 2 years of overness count for shit.

 

I admit, Geurreo's one of the two best guys they got on SD (other being Angle). But thats only because Angle is on the verge of a career end, Michales is 7 years past his prime and goes out there to just enjoy himself than accomplish anything more, Austin is gone, and Flair is approaching 60. Oh and Hunter was possesed by Satan after his quad injury which took place dutring his prime year 2001 while competing in a 5 star match, something Guerreo's never had in his WWE career. And will never have one unless Rey duplicates a Halloween Havoc 97 for him, or if Michaels stops him a show.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Punch, punch, kick, choke, resthold, signiture spot, ect.

 

His matches are all the same and hey, when he is using a resthold in a 3 minute match, maybe, just maybe....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if you believe in Bret Hart's philosophy regarding Ric Flair, this would make Christian the greatest Flair there is.

 

Anyway, I'll say Angle. Just like Flair, even if he's not in the main event, he's always "up there" no matter who he's fighting. Angle and Flair also both sometimes go through these weird character turns that make their fans want to cry. "I want to fuck your wife" is the new "Cross-dressin' Flair."

 

The funny thing about that comparison is, if it was FLAIR and Booker T, Flair could do the wife-fucking promo and turn it into absolute gold. With Angle, it's just too odd.

[Guest Brian]

Eddie's Latino Heat got on bigtime with the fans in 2004, and that I consider to be his best ever year of his career. And now's he's playing a top heel which is also good for his career. But thats about it. Donot ever put a Guerero in the category of a Flair, Michaels or Angle. Because 2 years of overness count for shit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What do Angle's five years of mediocrity count for?

[Dark Age 0]

Chavo a wayyy better talker than Eddie. And that shows on the mic. Eddie, face or heel, can't put a damn sentnece together. oh yeah, I've even heard him on ByteThis, the guy talks worse than Benoit.

 

I'm still looking for some examples. I've just given you a few of the best interviews of Eddie's life - all of which are better than ANY cut by Chavo, any by Hunter, a huge majority of Angle's, and quite a lot of Shawn's top stuff. Most, even.

 

Eddie's Latino Heat got on bigtime with the fans in 2004, and that I consider to be his best ever year of his career. And now's he's playing a top heel which is also good for his career. But thats about it. Donot ever put a Guerero in the category of a Flair, Michaels or Angle. Because 2 years of overness count for shit.

 

Funny, considering Eddie got really over in 2003. In fact, from June 2003 to his heel turn just recently, Eddie was the most over face in the company. I guess that counts for nothing, though. Eddie was more over as a face than Trips or Angle ever were, and as over as Shawn ever was. Right now, he's more over as a heel than Triple H has been since 2000.

 

Don't call 2004 the best of Eddie's career when you obviously haven't even FOLLOWED the guy's career, otherwise you would know what you're talking about. I will say, though, that Eddie Guerrero in 2004 was better than any single year by Triple H, Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle, and, in it, he had two matches better than ANY match ever involving Triple H or Kurt Angle. At least one of the two was better than anything Shawn has ever done. No criticism of those guys, btw. It may not seem it, but I LIKE Kurt Angle. In fact, I really like him, and think he's been getting a bit of unfair criticism on the 'net lately. But he isn't in any Eddie's league. I like Shawn Michaels (at times) and think he's underrated in certain parts. But, right now, he's not in Eddie's league (and it is arguable that he ever was). I don't care for Triple H, but will admit he's capable of a good match. However, he, at his best, isn't in the same league as Eddie at his worst.

 

Actually, I agree. It's wrong of me to put Eddie in the same bracket as Shawn, Angle and Triple H, simply for the fact that Eddie is FAR better than all three.

 

And... 2 years of overness? I guess the heel heat he could pre-2003 was just imaginary. I guess being one of the most hated heels in WCW just never happened. So talking shit, bro.

 

I admit, Geurreo's one of the two best guys they got on SD (other being Angle). But thats only because Angle is on the verge of a career end, Michales is 7 years past his prime and goes out there to just enjoy himself than accomplish anything more, Austin is gone, and Flair is approaching 60. Oh and Hunter was possesed by Satan after his quad injury which took place dutring his prime year 2001 while competing in a 5 star match, something Guerreo's never had in his WWE career. And will never have one unless Rey duplicates a Halloween Havoc 97 for him, or if Michaels stops him a show.

 

No, the other is not Angle, it's Rey. And that isn't because Angle's run down by injuries, it's because Rey and Eddie are both better than Angle. Simple as that.

 

I have no idea what your Austin, Flair and Michaels "past his prime" comments have to do with anything. They've never even BEEN on SD.

 

Hunter... in a ***** match??? BWAHAHA. You're a joke. What little credibility you had left is now gone. What was that ***** match? The "classic" 3 stages of Hell match with Austin? The tag title switch? The "epic" brawl with Taker at WM? What a dolt.

 

I agree, Eddie has never had a ***** match in his WWE career, but, erm, hate to break it to ya champ, nobody on the roster has. And I'll tell you what, last year, Eddie Guerrero had two matches closer to ***** than the company has seen in years.

 

Your last Michaels comment makes no sense at all.

 

In closing, stop posting.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'll argue Benoit/Angle Royal Rumble 2003 as the closest thing to a ***** match the WWE has had, with Eddy/Brock NWO right behind it.

[Dark Age 0]

Eddie/Brock was one of the matches I was referring to, the other being Eddie/JBL.

 

I have a lot of love for Angle/Benoit, and think it gets some unfair criticism. It's one of the best "WWE Style" matches EVER, though I hate the term. It is, for me, MOTY for 2003, with Brock/Benoit and Angle/Taker it's biggest challengers, and maybe the Vengeance tag. Like I said, though, I think both Eddie/Brock and Eddie/JBL are better than it.

 

Also, Curry, do you mean in the history of the WWE, or involving the wrestlers we are arguing, or what? 'Cos, despite my love for it, I think there's at least ten better matches. That I know of. That I can remember enough to give an opinion of.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'd put Benoit/Angle in the Top 10 WWE Matches of All Time without hesitation. Easily both guys best work within that company.