The Top 50 NBA Players of My Generation

[Black Lushus 0]

because I'm a Knicks fans and Knicks fans are always in denial about how overrated patrick Ewing was!

 

EDIT: of course, Alf, you're trying to be a smartass, so what you said about Ewing could also be said about Barkley or Malone, no?

[Guest Vitamin X]

Everyone remember when MICHAEL JORDAN turned the Wizards franchise around and took them to playoff glory?

 

 

...No? Greatest player in the game? Doesn't need anybody else? Scottie Pippen? Wha?

[Black Lushus 0]

a twice retired Michael Jordan that clearly wasn't in any shape to carry a club himself...

[Ripper 0]

oh please Rip, if it wasn't Scottie it would have been someone else, come off it...if he's so instrumental in helping Jordan win the titles, why couldn't he help someone else elevate their game?  bullshit calls aside, he alone couldn't get the job done...

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Neither could Jordan. And are you arguing that Pete Myers was worth a shit? Cause Pippen made him look damn good. He won 55 games with a team of scrubs and was one HISTORICALLY univerally accepted bad call away from Eastern Conference finals. Hell, he was in the top 3 of MVP voting that year. 23 points, 9 rebounds, 6 or 7 assist, 3 steals? That is what he did without Jordan. They swept the Cavs without Jordan. They SHOULD have beaten the Knicks.

[alfdogg 0]

Oh relax Lushus, I wasn't being a smartass at all. The fact that you, a Knick fan, posted right before that was a coincidence.

 

It also hasn't been mentioned that when the Bulls lost to the Pistons in '90, it was Scottie that had the migranes the last couple games and couldn't play up to standards.

[Ripper 0]

So why wasn't scottie allowed to get old too? While Jordan was taking seasons off to rest up, Scottie was playing all the way through them. His body went south before jordans did. And he was still a important part to a playoff team. everyone uses the "jordan was old" excuse for these last few years in Washington. That iddn't stop him from taking every fucking shot did it?

[alfdogg 0]

And someone will have to explain the bad call in the Bulls-Knicks series to me...I've heard about it but never saw it. I only remember the bad calls against the Pacers.

[Black Lushus 0]

dude, Pippen was not the only contributor on those championship teams...he was the lucky enough small forward to be paired with Michael Jordan...if Pippen spent his career with the Cavs (just an example), he wouldn't have been what we know him to be...name me some other good small forwards and then place them in his shoes, teaming with Jordan, it would have been the same result...Jordan made those Bulls teams better with his defense, his ability to dish, not JUST his scoring...Pippen woulda just been another guy if not for being on the Bulls...

[Black Lushus 0]

So why wasn't scottie allowed to get old too?  While Jordan was taking seasons off to rest up, Scottie was playing all the way through them.  His body went south before jordans did.  And he was still a important part to a playoff team.  everyone uses the "jordan was old" excuse for these last few years in Washington.  That iddn't stop him from taking every fucking shot did it?

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i think Jordan played that way with the Wizards to try and prove the naysayers wrong, which of course he failed to do...

[Black Lushus 0]

It also hasn't been mentioned that when the Bulls lost to the Pistons in '90, it was Scottie that had the migranes the last couple games and couldn't play up to standards.

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Again, Pippen wasn't the only contributor on those championship teams...as mediocre as the other role players would be on their own with other teams, they were all able to gel together and I really think Jordan should be given the credit for getting his team to step it up that extra notch...

[Ripper 0]

I am so sick of the Jordan was a great defender bullshit. Jordan played passing lanes well, but he was eaten alive by every player that lined up across from him. There was a reason they put Scottie on the more important perimeter players. Everyone from Stockton, to Tim Hardaway, to...hell...anyone put up huge numbers against Mike because he was sucky on D. Great team defender, shitty one on one defender.

 

and the call against the bulls. The Bulls led 86-85 and the Knicks had the ball in Hubert Davis’ hands with under 10 seconds to play. Pippen, defended Davis perfectly and eventually, Davis was forced to fire up a prayer from the top of the key. But well after the ball was off, Hue Hollins whistled Pippen for a foul. Even though replays clearly indicated there was no foul on the shot and even though the NBA has long had a philosophy of not calling fouls in last-second situation unless incredibly blatant, and even though the whistle came long after the ball was shot, Davis went to the free throw line with 2.1 seconds to play, buried both free throws, and the Knicks won 87-86.

[Black Lushus 0]

Rip, dude...come on now...all these guys that are heralded as being great defenders: Olajuwon, Ewing, O'Neal, Robinson, Malone, Barkley, etc. always give up the points when faced with equal or near equal caliber players...when Duncan and Garnett play each other, both are good defensively, correct? both still score over 20, correct?

[AboveAverage484 0]

Here is the revised list, taking into account their peak value as well as their career value:

 

50. Eddie Jones

 

49. Jamal Mashburn

 

48. Shawn Marion

 

47. Vin Baker

 

46. Sam Cassell

 

45. Latrell Sprewell

 

44. Larry Johnson

 

43. Antoine Walker

 

42. Dennis Rodman

 

41. Ralph Sampson

 

40. Reggie Miller

 

39. Shawn Kemp

 

38. Ben Wallace

 

37. Jermaine O'Neal

 

36. Steve Francis

 

35. Joe Dumars

 

34. Dikembe Mutombo

 

33. Anfernee Hardaway

 

32. Brad Daugherty

 

31. Chris Mullin

 

30. Stephon Marbury

 

29. Ray Allen

 

28. Mark Price

 

27. Paul Pierce

 

26. Alonzo Mourning

 

25. Mitch Richmond

 

24. Steve Nash

 

23. Kevin Johnson

 

22. Vince Carter

 

21. Tim Hardaway

 

20. Dirk Nowitzki

 

19. Scottie Pippen

 

18. Tracy McGrady

 

17. Gary Payton

 

16. Chris Webber

 

15. Grant Hill

 

14. Jason Kidd

 

13. Clyde Drexler

 

12. Kobe Bryant

 

11. Patrick Ewing

 

10. John Stockton

 

9. Kevin Garnett

 

8. Allen Iverson

 

7. David Robinson

 

6. Hakeem Olajuwon

 

5. Tim Duncan

 

4. Charles Barkley

 

3. Karl Malone

 

2. Shaquille O'Neal

 

1. Michael Jordan

[bob_barron 0]

Penny Hardaway?

 

I love Penny and all but the guy hasn't started a whole season since 1996

[alfdogg 0]

Ralph Sampson started in 83, unless you're not counting that now or something.

 

And I think I remember that call a *little* bit now that Ripper mentioned it. I'd have to see it to really pass judgement, though.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Ralph Sampson started in 83, unless you're not counting that now or something.

 

And I think I remember that call a *little* bit now that Ripper mentioned it.  I'd have to see it to really pass judgement, though.

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By 1984, I mean '83-'84, so Sampson is in.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Malone at 3? Over Duncan? Please justify that somehow...

[Ripper 0]

Rip, dude...come on now...all these guys that are heralded as being great defenders: Olajuwon, Ewing, O'Neal, Robinson, Malone, Barkley, etc. always give up the points when faced with equal or near equal caliber players...when Duncan and Garnett play each other, both are good defensively, correct?  both still score over 20, correct?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Jordan sucked against dudes that weren't known as offensive threats. We are talking Rod Strickland, Calbert Cheney, Mookie Blaylock type of players. Hell Mark Price used to look like GOD playing the bulls. Dan Marlie( will never be able to spell his name correctly, get over it) jeff Hornecek, John Stockton...these are guys that are supposed tobe droping 20+ on a great defender.

 

And I would never call Karl Malone or Charles Barkley great defenders. Good maybe.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Malone at 3? Over Duncan? Please justify that somehow...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Malone was so productive for so long he has to be at #3. He was a force for 14 straight years in the NBA, that has to count for something.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Apparently winning something doesn't mean anything in your "peak value" or "career value" rankings. What exactly did you use to measure those two things?

[AboveAverage484 0]

Apparently winning something doesn't mean anything in your "peak value" or "career value" rankings. What exactly did you use to measure those two things?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If winning something means so much, why do you shit all over Pippen? Duncan sure as hell wouldn't have won a title without Robinson in '99.

 

What I considered as far as rankings:

 

Career points

Career rebounds

Career assists

MVP awards

NBA 50th Anniversary Team

All-NBA Teams

All-Star games

All-NBA 1st team in defense

Career scoring average

 

When I ranked them by "peak value" I condensed those factors into only the players peak years. Malone's peak was more than a decade, as he was still performing at a top level well into his career, where most players would have tapered off by then. Duncan's peak has been 8 years now, a little less than half of what Malone's peak was, but it still shows you how great Duncan is because he is only two spots behind Malone with that said. Being the number 5 player in the past thirty years is not something to complain about, especially when the four above you are MJ, Shaq, Malone, and Barkley.

 

Do I sound nerdy yet?

[Crimson Platypus 0]

So Championships aren't factored in? Why do they play basketball? To score a lot of points? If so then AI should be at or near the top. Assists? Where's Scott Skiles then? Rebounds? You have Rodman at 42!

 

Championships. That's what matters. Malone had one of the best pure point guards ever on his team and somehow couldn't get it done.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

If winning something means so much, why do you shit all over Pippen?  Duncan sure as hell wouldn't have won a title without Robinson in '99.

 

 

Because Pippen never won anything without Jordan. My whole point is that Jordan made him what he is, and because of Jordan people overrate Pippen enormously.

 

Duncan has proven he can win just fine without Robinson by the way.

[Black Lushus 0]

Robinson was a mere shell of his former self when they won in 99, I wouldn't count that one at all...

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I think he was still averaging a double double though...

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Championships are overrated in these matters. If you are a GM, do you evaluate what players to sign based on their skills, or whether or not they won a championship. As we've seen, most players who won championships did so because they benefitted from good teammates. I have yet to see a player win a championship by himself.

 

Championships are nice, but you CAN be a good player without winning it all. Karl Malone, John Stockton, Dominique Wilkins, Reggie Miller, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd. All are (or were) great players, and all never won a championship. A title is a nice accomplishment, but it is not the end-all factor in ABILITY. Basketball statistics can be complicated. It takes more to select the greatest players then sticking your head in the sand and yelling "Championships!"

[Black Lushus 0]

I think he was still averaging a double double though...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yeah but I think it was like 12 and 10 or some shit, what I was saying is that Duncan didn't need Robinson in 99...

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Championships are overrated in these matters.  If you are a GM, do you evaluate what players to sign based on their skills, or whether or not they won a championship.  As we've seen, most players who won championships did so because they benefitted from good teammates.  I have yet to see a player win a championship by himself.

 

Championships are nice, but you CAN be a good player without winning it all.  Karl Malone, John Stockton, Dominique Wilkins, Reggie Miller, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd.  All are (or were) great players, and all never won a championship.  A title is a nice accomplishment, but it is not the end-all factor in ABILITY.  Basketball statistics can be complicated.  It takes more to select the greatest players then sticking your head in the sand and yelling "Championships!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Bill Simmons from espn.com put it this way Al:

 

Would you rather have Karl Malone's career or Robert Horry's?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Championships are overrated in these matters.  If you are a GM, do you evaluate what players to sign based on their skills, or whether or not they won a championship.  As we've seen, most players who won championships did so because they benefitted from good teammates.  I have yet to see a player win a championship by himself.

 

Championships are nice, but you CAN be a good player without winning it all.  Karl Malone, John Stockton, Dominique Wilkins, Reggie Miller, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd.  All are (or were) great players, and all never won a championship.  A title is a nice accomplishment, but it is not the end-all factor in ABILITY.  Basketball statistics can be complicated.  It takes more to select the greatest players then sticking your head in the sand and yelling "Championships!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Bill Simmons from espn.com put it this way Al:

 

Would you rather have Karl Malone's career or Robert Horry's?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's not really relevant. The question is whether player A is better than player B. If both players are otherwise equal, then championships might mean something in the discussion. Otherwise, they are a side note.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

But my point is that WINNING (and by that I mean championships) has a large part in whether player A is better than player B. That's what I have said over and over. I really don't know how to put it better.