Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 From LOP: - Despite some fear that Vengeance might fail to outperform the ECW PPV, the RAW brand show actually won by a rather substantial margin. Vengeance, which featured two title matches (including Hell In A Cell) and HBK vs. Angle II, scored a projected 320,000 buys, topping the 265-275,000 estimate for One Night Stand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 This is on PWInsider also: WWE's Vengeance PPV from last month came in with about 320,000 buys on the first estimate. Internally, the company had been somewhat concerned that the ECW PPV would outsell Vengeance, which featured Triple H vs. Batista in a Cell match. WWE hotshotted the event by putting a rematch of Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle on the show to help the buyrate and it worked. The ECW show did about 275,000 buys on its first estimate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 This is sad on so many levels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted July 17, 2005 This is good on so many levels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tekcop 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 This is good on so many levels. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with this man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TroughOfMantaur Report post Posted July 17, 2005 Meltzer said on WOL a couple a few weeks back that Angle vs Michaels was planned for Vengeance well before One Night Stand took place. I assumed it had been hotshotted due to worry that ONS might pull a better buyraye, but I'll take Meltzer's word for it. Scherer is likely letting his ECDub nostalgia overshadow the facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fartsauce 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 Triple H 1 ECW 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rrrsh Report post Posted July 17, 2005 Triple H 1 ECW 0 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah, Id say Cena and the Angle rematch made the buys far more than HHH match Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Si82 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 This is good on so many levels. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slabinskia 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 As much as I enjoyed ONS,bringing back ecw full time was not the answer.In some ways they are doing what I wanted them to do.Learn from the ecw ppv by making their product better.Since ons we have gotten: HHH vs Batista in a really good HIAC match BWO HBK heel turn Matt Hardy worked shoot Jericho in the world title match at summerslam Benoit vs Regal in a great match(minus a few points for being on velocity) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 I meant it was sad that they put all that stuff on a nothing show like Vengeance to top the buyrate of a PPV of a company that is defunct. A show that didn't even have ONE match announced on TV. It's sad that they'd be that petty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reign 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 Why are the WWE so damned worried about one of their OWN shows out-doing another one of their OWN shows...Vince and his cronies are fucking nuts...somebody needs to tell Vince that he owns the wrestling world and it doesn't matter if ECW outsells the WWE... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrVenkman PhD 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 As stated above, Scherer is just jumping to conclusions and Meltzer is probably right. While I have no doubt that such a thing (ONS having more buys than Vengeance) would concern HHH, I would hope the company, as a whole, realizes that money is money and PPV buys are PPV buys no matter how you get them or what the top match is. That being said, it would be pretty retarded for a company that is public and sells stocks dependant on how well they are doing to lie or withold PPV sales so before anyone decides to claim that WWE is making the ONS buyrate up, please keep the above in mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJerk 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 Why are the WWE so damned worried about one of their OWN shows out-doing another one of their OWN shows...Vince and his cronies are fucking nuts...somebody needs to tell Vince that he owns the wrestling world and it doesn't matter if ECW outsells the WWE... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is human nature to look inward for enemies when you have run out of outside enemies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 Meltzer > Scherer, okay guys? I don't think they're even worried about ECW nostalgia trumping the sales of their current product, especially with that WrestleMania buyrate that they got this year. And, ONS still did excellent by their own expectations, which was that 250,000 would be a success. Everyone here keeps smelling conspiracy because someone put on their rose colored glasses and released that bullshit approx 1mil figure two days after the show, and Meltzer simply replied to that bullshit with "Well, it could be, but it might not be, I can't say" which was as honest as he could be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CheesalaIsGood 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2005 To anybody that might think that the ECW PPV was a failure I might want to point out something. You can comapre the two buy rates all you want, but people actually DO see that ONS was a legit ECW show. Nobody disputes this. THAT is a success nobody thought would happen. Vengence could have pulled Wrestlemania numbers and still not tarnished the shine. The fact that it was genuine under the WWE umbrella was so awesome on so many levels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humongous2002 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 In my eyes ONS was the real winner since WWE didn't waste that much money in producing it, meanwhile Vengeance had the over the top production, the huge arena and the highly paid wrestlers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeDirt 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 You can thank Cena for the extra buys, I'd say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest *KNK* Report post Posted July 18, 2005 How well did Judgment Day draw? I think its a reach to credit the "extra" buys on Cena alone, when you had the figuritive blow off in a big gimmick match that promised blood and a "dream" rematch. I say it's an equal balance of credit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaosrage 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 How well did Judgment Day draw? About 230,000. Raw may have beaten ECW but ONS managed to get a lot more buys than Smackdown. JBL in a main event: 0 John Cena in a main event: 0 Tommy Dreamer in a main event: 1 The solution is obvious. Replace the Smackdown brand with ECW. Does anyone know exactly how the estimates work? Someone in the last thread said that the webcast isn't counted in. I don't know if that's true but if that's the case, then we can all expect the final buyrate to be much much higher since the internet is such a huge part of their fanbase. (Hell the most hype the show got was on Byte This) The final number when it comes out is always higher, and sometimes it's as much as 100,000 more like the last Royal Rumble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 Okay, the "replace SmackDown with ECW" idea being taken seriously thing has got to meet reality. The WWE isn't going to rearrange itself to have the WCW-ish Raw and ECW on the other night. ONS was a sideshow, the whole ECW revival, it's tie in with Bischoff, and the whole thing was giving the fans finality on what had been an unwritten chapter of wrestling history because McMahon figured he could make a dollar. This company has never fully embraced ECW's style of wrestling aside from that one show, and it can't do it full-time. They've already got enough problems with guys getting injured all the time, and they've been training fans for more than three years to respect more regular, two-men-and-a-ring style of wrestling. It's taken some time, but they've got crowds responding and sometimes giving standing ovations to the likes of Chris Benoit. After all this retraining, it'd be kind of sad to undo it and bring back the endless parade of Holy Shit spots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted July 18, 2005 Besides, there's no telling how much life the ECW brand has in it. Can it sustain the same type of feeling, the same momentum? Can it hold decent ratings? Is the booking and wrestling style beneficial for the long-term? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cabbageboy 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 I just went to a house show the other night and their ultra safe "two men in a ring working abdominal stretches" style is boring as fuck. I'm not saying every match has to be a wild ECW style brawl, but it'd be nice to have at least 1 match that was a bit different on a show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 A lack of skill is a lack of skill, no matter which style you work. They tend to hire based on looks over skill, so that's probably what you witnessed. There's still a big difference between "two men in a ring working abdominal stretches" and Benoit/Regal. The crowd enjoyed Benoit/Regal, and it didn't even involve german suplexing someone like a rag doll all over the room. This is a big jump from when they started promoting this style in 2003, with Lesnar/Angle. I remember reading the comments here about how disappointed everyone was that the crowd stayed quiet through the chain wrestling and then popped for the first power move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 They can't be authentic ECW on big-time network TV. If that was possible, ECW probably wouldn't have died in the first place. Or, at least, so quickly. They booked ONS purely on nostalgia too. You can't book a weekly TV show on nostalgia. If that was possible, Heroes Of Wrestling woul...okay, maybe not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHawk 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 I'm sorry, but I'm still calling bullshit. Not to say ECW One Night Stand did WrestleMania-type numbers like some originally thought, but here are the facts: 1. Casual fans I know bought ONS, some of them telling me they hadn't bought a PPV in three or four years. 2. NOBODY I know saw Vengeance...or even remembered there was a PPV that night. 3. If I had a dime for every person who came into work and asked me if we carried ONS on DVD, I could pay my fucking rent. I'm supposed to believe that Vengeance did nearly 50,000 more buys than ONS? Granted, I live out in northeast Ohio, so this is by no means a national sample I'm using. But you'll have a hard time convincing me ONS did a lower buy than Vengeance until the absolute final numbers are in. I'll concede one thing. Since the webcast isn't included in the buyrates, then I'm willing to bet more people saw ONS live than did Vengeance. Add in DVD sales and tell me what the more successful show was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 I'm sorry, but I'm still calling bullshit. Not to say ECW One Night Stand did WrestleMania-type numbers like some originally thought, but here are the facts: 1. Casual fans I know bought ONS, some of them telling me they hadn't bought a PPV in three or four years. 2. NOBODY I know saw Vengeance...or even remembered there was a PPV that night. 3. If I had a dime for every person who came into work and asked me if we carried ONS on DVD, I could pay my fucking rent. I'm supposed to believe that Vengeance did nearly 50,000 more buys than ONS? Granted, I live out in northeast Ohio, so this is by no means a national sample I'm using. But you'll have a hard time convincing me ONS did a lower buy than Vengeance until the absolute final numbers are in. I'll concede one thing. Since the webcast isn't included in the buyrates, then I'm willing to bet more people saw ONS live than did Vengeance. Add in DVD sales and tell me what the more successful show was. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The ECW show only appealed to hardcore wrestling fans. Vengeance appealed to the whole WWE fanbase. It's not surprising at all that it would do a higher buyrate especially with the fairly strong card it had. How is this hard to understand? I know ECW IZ DA BEST but fuck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrVenkman PhD 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2005 I would imagine that ONS would sell well on DVD to the casual fan. I suspect casual fans don't buy wrestling DVDs outside of the always sucessful WM DVDs but ONS is a different case. Ordering PPVs is a different story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeDirt 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2005 Got this off another board... "Internally, WWE is claiming the One Night Stand PPV did between 268,000 and 301,000 pay-per-view buys. InDemand claims the show drew 375,000 buys, as Viewers Choice is estimating 350,000 buys. credit: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter" Let the conspiracy theories begin! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted July 21, 2005 I just went to a house show the other night and their ultra safe "two men in a ring working abdominal stretches" style is boring as fuck. I'm not saying every match has to be a wild ECW style brawl, but it'd be nice to have at least 1 match that was a bit different on a show. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They actually want their guys to not get injured and, thankfully, most of their guys don't need to do garbage brawls. Got this off another board... "Internally, WWE is claiming the One Night Stand PPV did between 268,000 and 301,000 pay-per-view buys. InDemand claims the show drew 375,000 buys, as Viewers Choice is estimating 350,000 buys. credit: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter" Let the conspiracy theories begin! You are aware that the WWF has no benefit, whatsoever, in downplaying the numbers of any of their shows, right? They are a public company traded on the stock market. Intentionally misreporting revenue can lead to some legal issues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
