HBK is a little unhappy

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Don't Jericho and Michaels have the same ring style?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really. Jericho still sells when making his comeback. Jericho also makes his opponent look good without making it obvious he's making them look good.

[CanadianChick 0]

I meant in the credibility of beating someone like John Cena up.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But who bought Jericho as a contender for Cena? Let alone someone who could beat Cena and have a long reign?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I meant in the credibility of beating someone like John Cena up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jericho works a lot stiffer, or at least his work looks stiffer than Shawn's does. Jericho actually looks like he's hitting his opponent and his stuff looks like it really hurts. Shawn works far too light, and his punches are some of the weakest outside of Matt Hardy's.

[CanadianChick 0]

But who bought Jericho as a contender for Cena?  Let alone someone who could beat Cena and have a long reign?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's not my point. My point is that, in the context of the match, was it believable for Jericho to be beating up Cena in order for Cena to use his strength (getting the crap beaten out of him)? If yes, then why would it not be believable for Shawn to do so?

 

Jericho works a lot stiffer, or at least his work looks stiffer than Shawn's does. Jericho actually looks like he's hitting his opponent and his stuff looks like it really hurts. Shawn works far too light, and his punches are some of the weakest outside of Matt Hardy's.

Whoa, Matt Hardy's punches are weak? They usually make a solid thud I thought. Hit and miss at worse, but not weak.

 

Anyways, yes, Shawn doesn't have great punches and overall, Jericho does work stiffer. But looking at both guy's offence (Lionsault, dropkicks, flying forearms), neither guys' signiture moves are hard hitting. How is one more believable than the other? How is a Lionsault more hard hitting than a forearm?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No, it wasn't believable.

 

(I'll add to this)

 

Did the crowd react to the match? Yes, of course they did. Would they react to HBK beating up Cena? Yes, of course they would. They also reacted to Hogan beating up HBK. That's what the live fans do with popular wrestlers. If one was willing to conceed that Hogan beating up HBK was believable on the basis of crowd reaction, then I'd conceed that HBK could get the better of Cena. I'm not actually in this to say what HBK can and can't do. I just want to see the same standard be applied.

 

Nevertheless, is Jericho (who is also bigger and younger than HBK) beating up Cena, in the context of physical attributes, believable? No. Jerichos moveset isn't believable enough to even suggest he'd get the upper hand on a guy like Cena. Cena is much bigger than Jericho, and shouldn't have given up that much offense. But that's how the WWE books. They book Batista like that, for some unknown reason.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Jericho works a lot stiffer, or at least his work looks stiffer than Shawn's does. Jericho actually looks like he's hitting his opponent and his stuff looks like it really hurts. Shawn works far too light, and his punches are some of the weakest outside of Matt Hardy's.

Whoa, Matt Hardy's punches are weak? They usually make a solid thud I thought. Hit and miss at worse, but not weak.

 

Anyways, yes, Shawn doesn't have great punches and overall, Jericho does work stiffer. But looking at both guy's offence (Lionsault, dropkicks, flying forearms), neither guys' signiture moves are hard hitting. How is one more believable than the other? How is a Lionsault more hard hitting than a forearm?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Matt Hardy's punches look like he's flapping his arm to dry his armpit. They may be stiff, but they look incredibly weak, and if they look weak then it doesn't matter how stiff they really are, because nobody is buying the punches.

 

With the Lionsault, you can actually see Jericho landing on his opponent, and it looks like the guy taking the move can get winded from it. Shawn's forearms are as bad as Matt Hardy's punches. They look like he's tapping the guy a couple of times and all he uses them for is to transition into his next highspot.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Nobody has worse punches than Scotty 2 Hotty.

[CanadianChick 0]

I wasn't talking about his forearms that are replacements for punches. I was talking about his flying forearm.

 

Oh, and no one beats Matt's brother in the "weak punches" catergory...except for maybe Lita.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I wasn't talking about his forearms that are replacements for punches. I was talking about his flying forearm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shawn's flying forearm looks weak as shit. It looks more like a flying punch.

[chaosrage 0]

There's also a big difference between 28 and 40.

 

Not really, or not as much of one. Is it unbelievable that Batista could beat Cena? Not at all. What about Austin? He's 40. What happens when Benoit turns 40 in 2 years? Are some of you going to start calling him an old man and say he should never go near the title again? I mean, it's ridiculous. Do you guys really believe the shit that you're typing?

 

The 1980's were a different time where image wasn't as important as it is today, and Batista doesn't look like he's 40. HBK looks like he's 40, and it's 2005.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When he's having a match, he doesn't look like he's 40, and that's what matters most. He moves just like a 28 year old. Hogan, however, looks like a 52 year old man and wrestles like he's much older than that.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

HBK does look like he's 40+ when he's in a match. He sweats and his bald spot shows more.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

As a singles wrestler, either 1993 or 1996

 

He missed three months in the fall of 1993 due to a contract dispute.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

As a singles wrestler, either 1993 or 1996

 

He missed three months in the fall of 1993 due to a contract dispute.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was closer to six weeks, but point taken.

[chaosrage 0]

HBK does look like he's 40+ when he's in a match. He sweats and his bald spot shows more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, I bet Kurt Angle's does too.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

Yeah, I bet Kurt Angle's does too.

Lame. Kurt shaves his head and looks cool, not like a balding loser like Michaels.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Yeah, I bet Kurt Angle's does too.

Lame. Kurt shaves his head and looks cool, not like a balding loser like Michaels.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That comeback was indeed laughable.

[chaosrage 0]

Lame. Kurt shaves his head and looks cool, not like a balding loser like Michaels.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But he was turning into a balding loser before he shaved it. So if Shawn shaves his head, can he get his 6 month world title run?

[CanadianChick 0]

A sweaty, slobbering, drooling Kurt does not equal cool.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

A sweaty, slobbering, drooling Kurt does not equal cool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At least Angle is somewhat credible when he's going crazy on someone and beating the shit out of them. I can buy Kurt being a badass. Not sure I'd pay to see it, but I can believe that he can be a badass

[CanadianChick 0]

Badass? Yes. Cool? Not so much.

 

EDIT: Mind you, this isn't in defence of Michaels. He totally reminds me of the dad trying to be cool for his teenage son. But I like him in the ring, so I can forgive his dorkiness. And his really, really awful fashion sense.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Badass? Yes. Cool? Not so much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On that one I'd have to agree. Kurt was portrayed as a funny little dork for far too long to ever be considered cool. He's still no less cool than a balding 40-year old who is still being called The Heartbreak Kid.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Angle is quick, thick but ripped to threads, looks athletic and his offense looks credible. Michaels is slow, scrawny(he can't be more than 185) and his offense looks weak and choreographed. Angle looks and wrestles like he's 30, Michaels looks and wrestles his age, if not older.

[Guest FromBeyondTheGrave]

But he was turning into a balding loser before he shaved it. So if Shawn shaves his head, can he get his 6 month world title run?

If he looks cool and intense like Angle, instead of a bumping, bland face...then yeah, maybe.

 

A sweaty, slobbering, drooling Kurt does not equal cool.

Cooler than a 40 year old, balding, "sexy" boy.

[BorneAgain 0]

No matter how old Angle grows to look he still has an almost Bob Backlund like quality circa 94 in that he may be old but could still beat your ass and stretch the shit out of you.

 

I'm not sure how well Shawn will age but at the rate he's going he set to look like Ricky Morton with less hair in ten years.

[Precious Roy 0]

All of which is why he should go heel. He's not cool, and nobody buys his schtick and babyface routine. He'll always get heat and pops, but as proven by the Hogan shit he can be much better utilized as a heel. Until the live crowds turn on him though, they'll never make the change.

 

And it's wrestling, we all suspend disbelief in different way, if we're going to talk believeability then Cena should never be champion, as his work constantly exposes the business. If Michaels is playing heel he can use enough tricks to believeably beat 90% of the roster for one reason or another, but it shouldn't happen as a face. HBK should be the crafty old cheating bastard, like his DX in-ring character without the back breaking bumps.

[Black Lushus 0]

Can we back the bus up a few pages here (I haven't read anything here since Saturday morning), I have a request for the moderators: Can you banish anyone who says RVD should be world champ to the HD folder for no less than two weeks at a time? Thanks...

[iggymcfly 0]

I've got a better idea. How about we banish Black Lushus to the HD folder for two weeks for making an annoying off-topic request that doesn't even make any sense.

[Black Lushus 0]

how is it off topic? someone, probably your lame ass ( I don't feel like going back and grabbing the quote), suggested HBK hold the belt for 7 months before losing it to RVD...my response is that anyone (probably your lame ass) that suggests RVD should get the belt let alone he get it the way it was mentioned (probably by your lame ass) should never be aloud to discuss wrestling on this forum again...

[Boon 0]

Yeah, lame ass.