Chris Masters isn't THAT bad, is he?

[Guest rawmvp]

At Unforgiven he did a torture rack, and tonight on his match with RAW, he continued to perform the press slam with precision, and he did some pretty nifty leg work on HBK, that reminded me of Bret Hart (especially the leg pull maneuver).

 

This guy is as green as it gets, and for someone who is a rookie, he's pretty good, IMO. His mic work is OK right now, but in a few years I expect his ring work and promo work to be above average.

[LJSexay 0]

alright I conceed.. his work, and moves I'd NEVER expect him to do ever that he did tonight, have made me change my perspective on the guy. He's only 22? At such a young age, he's bound to improve. I mean, look at another young guy who's improved leaps and bounds from when he was mega-pushed.. Randy Orton.

 

I'm not kidding either. Not that mega-pushing green wrestlers is the way to go, but pushing young guys HAS to be a start.. right?

[Guest deinly1]

Most posters on this board hate Masters, also the kiddies here seem to think Cena can't work. Funny considering during his UPW stint wwe talent scouts said he was top notch. At the same point in their careers Masters and Cena are not in the same league- Masters cant cut a promo with any style and he seems clunky and unsure of himself in the ring too. However he's got potential mainly because he has the look, all he really needs is some more exp. and a character he can run with. I bring up Cena mainly because his UPW character the Prototype is similar to The Masterpiece in a way.

 

Will Masters be heavyweight champ one day? That depends on how hard he works to improve the areas he is lacking in. Watching Cena in UPW was astonishing, he had 3 months in wrestling training and his character, look, and wrestling was better than people who have been training for years. Masters has a long way to go before he has the technical and mic skills to be a top dog. Regardless of what half a dozen basement dwellers think, Masters obviously showed the people who gave us Austin, Hart, Rock, etc something to give him a shot at the big time and such a push.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Most posters on this board hate Masters, also the kiddies here seem to think Cena can't work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Cena does not know how to work" is not it at all. "Cena is not being given enough room to breathe and work to his fullest" is what's going on. If Cena was having matches in TNA, we'd probably be a hell of a lot more impressed with him than what we're seeing right now.

 

As Prototype in OVW, Cena was getting a LOT of love from those who managed to see him.

[LJSexay 0]

definitely. In fact, people were downright shocked at the gimmick Cena was brought in with - generic no-name guy qho can do a hiptoss.

 

He was awesome live. I haven't been to a show since then.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Masters is like Matt Morgan. They both got called up way too soon because they had the 'look' that Vince salivates over, and were promptly exposed before they were anywhere near ready for a national audience. They both could have been players, Morgan far more so than Masters, but whatever level they could have reached is now out of reach, because the people have seen them for too long as these big green hosses who are terrible in the ring.

[randomguy 0]

Eh, at the risk of being called Coach again, Masters has visibly improved a lot from his first few matches. If you remember back to his first matches he literally did nothing at all. Absolutely nothing. Now he looks like he is actually, you know, wrestling kind of. He's already ahead of a lot of the big men - Snitsky and Heidenreich for example. His first matches were complete wastes of time, but now he's at least mildly entertaining.

 

I kind of like his goofy attitude and the faces he makes because he reminds me of my friend. But, his promos are kind of weak in general.

 

As far as Cena goes, I don't like his character or the way he moves in the ring with his hand motions, his chicken-leg style running, etc. He's really kind of annoying and a showoff. His homophobic comments really annoy me as well. I would like him a lot better as a heel because to me he is one. Cena (the character) is the type of person I would hate in real life. He just rubs me the wrong way. When he's in the ring it's like it's an act, just too over the top. (Yes, I know 'rasslin is fake) Also his booking has been horrible. People like to cheer for the underdog but when a guy is constantly winning handicap matches it's hard to consider him the underdog in any contest.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Don't tell me Masters is the new Batista in terms of Inordinately Beloved Shitty Big Man. Any mention of "PIMP MASTERS!" and I won't even bother dropping in to make fun of it, which is all I do in the wrestling folder now anyway.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

"If Cena was having matches in TNA, we'd probably be a hell of a lot more impressed with him than what we're seeing right now."

 

WHAT THE FUCK?

 

1. As a preface...I've never thought Masters was as bad as many here have...I just think his mic work was ridiculous...and they had him talk before non-matches. In the last 2 months I've seen him not be an terrible. If that's enough for a thumbs up...than good on him...

 

2. Cena blows. His gimmick is almost 2 years stale for TV. When cities get a show once a year...of course he still gets pops...but the business has changed. There is a reason that Austin is bigger than Hogan (seperate argument for a seperate thread...but still...)

 

3. If Cena was having matches in TNA he'd be blown out of the water moreso than he is on RAW. How has no one been watching these friggin ppvs? The same people that complain about bad wrestling...DON'T WATCH THESE PPVS. Outside of 3 HBK matches in this calender year (2 vs. Angle, 1 vs. Benjamin) TNA has shit all over the WWE product this year. If Cena were having these matches in TNA he wouldn't be over...because they run in front of the same fans every week. And his weak punches (as a brawler) and stale as all get out gimmick would be poo-pooed on.

 

He's not the Rock. The Rock was entertaining.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Chris Masters isn't THAT bad, is he?

 

Yes. Yes he is.

 

He needs another year or two in OVW, not an IC Title reign like Raw foreboded

 

"If Cena was having matches in TNA, we'd probably be a hell of a lot more impressed with him than what we're seeing right now."

 

Lance Hoyt has improved more in the past year than Cena has since he debuted, WWE style or not. Masters has at least shown some sort of improvement, which even though he's green is at least a promising sign. Cena has been treading water for at least the past year in the ring. He might be better in TNA, but he'd be no higher on the food chain than Hoyt or Sonny Saiki.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Chris Masters is awful, and reminiscent of the mid-90's and/or mid-80's WWF-style worker.

 

It's sad that in today's horrible mainstream wrestling scene, excuses are made almost everyday to try to find greatness in horrible, horrible, forced-pushed main event level workers.

 

Apologize.

[Fro 0]

Eh, at the risk of being called Coach again, Masters has visibly improved a lot from his first few matches. If you remember back to his first matches he literally did nothing at all. Absolutely nothing. Now he looks like he is actually, you know, wrestling kind of.

 

And you can attribute that to the fact that he's been wrestling Flair and Michaels the past couple weeks, who can make me or you look pretty decent at worst.

[humongous2002 0]

Masters is not bad...... just awful. The guy just got called up too soon from OVW and he needs more time to learn how to work. He's getting a push he hasn't earned just because he looks like a bodybuilder and nobody is buying it, just listen to the crowd last night on RAW when Masters finally came out for the main event, there were no jeers or cheers, just dead silence.

[jwpeer 0]

Masters is not bad...... just awful. The guy just got called up too soon from OVW and he needs more time to learn how to work. He's getting a push he hasn't earned just because he looks like a bodybuilder and nobody is buying it, just listen to the crowd last night on RAW when Masters finally came out for the main event, there were no jeers or cheers, just silence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The funny thing about Masters is that his work has CLEARLY improved, (and in fact really isn't that terrible as far as WWE style is concerned). But what I've noticed is his look DETRACTS from his work. He just seems too big/bodybuilder looked to do anything. His strikes looks incredibly awkward because of how overly developed he is.

 

I don't think he's a horrible worker (Certainly not heidenreich bad)...but I absolutely hate his look and that makes me automatically dislike everything he does, and i wouldn't be surprised if other people don't do the same.

 

I mean out of all the heels in the 8-match tag last night, it was Angle and Masters that did the most/best work....I would even contend that Masters did a little more (Angle just slapped on a few ankle locks and ducked under big showsso he could jump over the top rope)...Masters was applying some different leg moves to build on Angle's ankle lock, had nice press slams, etc.

 

 

He just looks so SILLY doing it.

 

 

 

 

That's my take.

[Black Lushus 0]

anybody catch when he almost slipped on his way down the ramp as he planted his foot following his entrance?

[Carnival 0]

anybody catch when he almost slipped on his way down the ramp as he planted his foot following his entrance?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My girl thought that was funny.

 

Masters > Batista

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't think Masters's entrance lends itself to having heat. I mean it's a dramatic pose entrance with that goofy music and the Greek statues. How is a crowd supposed to cheer or boo this?

 

You know, after last night I have this sinking feeling I'm going to see RVD go down to the Masterlock when he gets back.

[Guest Fishyswa]

The most indepth anyone in this thread has gone on why he's no good is "His strikes looks incredibly awkward because of how overly developed he is."

 

I can say he's clunky and akward, I can say he needs more time in OVW, but why? What makes him clunky and akward, does he fumble on transitions, is he just not that mobile when running ropes, why the time in OVW, what would he pick up there that he doesn't know now?

 

 

Master's is fine, some people like him, some people are professing he sucks with out any explination beyond "He's worthless and if you don't see it you have no eyes". The more people like his character, the more people talking about how good he is. Seems to be how it works around here.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Masters is not over. At least not to the degree where the push is warranted. He can't wrestle well. I mean they gave him the most basic of finishers for a reason (at least I think). He can barely talk. He's just overally a waste of space on the main roster. He should have just stayed in his OVW tag team and rebuild the division while hiding Masters's weaknesses. As things stand, his flaws are too exposed for me personally to take him seriously.

[Guest Fishyswa]

"Masters is not over. At least not to the degree where the push is warranted."

 

In what way? He's a heel, so idealy people are not supposed to like him. People don't like him, so what's unwarranted here?

 

"He can't wrestle well."

 

Come on, how much more basic can we get? What does that even mean?

 

"I mean they gave him the most basic of finishers for a reason (at least I think)."

 

Or maybe he came up with the idea for that as a finisher? Let's not assume things we'll never know anything about.

 

"He can barely talk."

 

This is where it gets ridiculous, he talks fine. What example in what promo illustrates a lack of ability here?

 

"He's just overally a waste of space on the main roster. He should have just stayed in his OVW tag team and rebuild the division while hiding Masters's weaknesses."

 

Which are? If you're gonna say something, back it up so it's at least clear what you're talking about. How is he a waste of space? The hole is for an over heel, is he not an over heel? Do crowds not respond when the masterlock is applied? He does his job, no more no less, let's not just make shit up because we don't find him enjoyable.

 

"As things stand, his flaws are too exposed for me personally to take him seriously."

 

WHAT FLAWS?!

 

 

This is what I don't understand, personally I really don't enjoy him, the character is too bland for me to get behind. But if you wanna bash a guy, at least have the material to do it.

 

Why should he go to OVW? What ability in the ring does he lack? What flaws are apparent in his promo's? Anyone can say all that shit, no one seems to be able to say why....

[naiwf 0]

An over heel should get booed, or have a chant directed at them by the fans ala Angle's "You Suck". Masters still comes out to tumbleweeds, and has been steadily doing so since his debut.

[Carnival 0]

I think he has decent mic skills. And he has improved in the ring since the Richards incident. He's not amazing, but he's gotten a lot better. And I think the "Master Lock Challenge" got him over pretty good, as well as getting his full nelson over as a credible finish.

 

Masters = Batista before the face turn(only better)

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Ok this is my personal opinion so I can't speak for anyone else.

 

He is too slow and plodding in the ring. Often looks lost when doing moves. Doesn't sell, but then again they didn't book him in a position to sell when I was watching WWE (he was doing the audience challenge back then). When he talks it sounds unconvincing. It's like he is ACTING, instead of BEING. Then there's your point of him being bland. In a tag team, they can cover those weaknesses by having his tag partner do most of the actual matwork, which he lacks, and then tag him in to do a few power moves/Masterlock and you got an effective team I think. Hell I thought he did better in that temporary team with Carlito than he did on his own. I know that not too many wrestlers can be as good as Chris Benoit or Eddy Guerrero but there IS a developmental territory for a reason. Put Masters back there and train him more so that when he comes back, he won't be so clueless in the ring.

[Guest Fishyswa]

"An over heel should get booed, or have a chant directed at them by the fans ala Angle's "You Suck". Masters still comes out to tumbleweeds, and has been steadily doing so since his debut."

 

He got booed last night, at Unforgiven(where he also had people chanting against him) and in the Masterlock challenge against HBK.

 

Are tumbleweeds really that loud?

[Guest Fishyswa]

"He is too slow and plodding in the ring. Often looks lost when doing moves."

 

I've never seen him look lost doing a move ONCE. I can't see how that's a consistent point against him. What moves, when, examples, something other than just saying it. The guy moves pretty well for his size too.

 

"Doesn't sell, but then again they didn't book him in a position to sell when I was watching WWE (he was doing the audience challenge back then)."

 

I think his selling is in his favor. He's yet to show an ability to bump well but between facials and off his guard stumbling he's fine.

 

"When he talks it sounds unconvincing. It's like he is ACTING, instead of BEING."

 

Come on, is anyone more guilty of this than a guy like HBK? Cena's better than anyone at that on Raw and his promo's still suck.

 

"Then there's your point of him being bland. In a tag team, they can cover those weaknesses by having his tag partner do most of the actual matwork, which he lacks,"

 

In what world would a guy like Masters do anything on the mat? He's not made to be wrestling on the mat, and he shouldn't be. The day I see him on the mat is the day he really isn't used right. What work can't he do that his partner would be better suited doing?

 

"and then tag him in to do a few power moves/Masterlock and you got an effective team I think."

 

Or just have him come in, do his power moves and have someone sell them, and you have an effective wrestler.

 

"Hell I thought he did better in that temporary team with Carlito than he did on his own. I know that not too many wrestlers can be as good as Chris Benoit or Eddy Guerrero but there IS a developmental territory for a reason."

 

Yeah, it's to make people TV ready. Not godly.

 

"Put Masters back there and train him more so that when he comes back, he won't be so clueless in the ring."

 

Only he's not clueless now. You don't see him being told what to do a lot, you don't see him miscommunicating, you don't see him fucking up simple shit. What doesn't he have a clue about?

 

 

I'm sorry but I got time to kill and I'm tired of people just piling on whoever's the current whipping boy.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

The last time I consistently watched Masters was about a few months ago. Did he really improve that much?

[Carnival 0]

You want to hear tumbleweeds watch anything involving Batista in early 2004. Now THAT is heatless. If it wasn't for Triple H, Batista would still be a generic worthless hoss on the level of Tyson Tomko. I still think he is.

 

At least Master's is getting himself over with his mic work and squashing jobbers with his full nelson. Sure he doesn't deserve all the credit, but he got a full nelson over as a deadly move. People actually think the Master Lock is unbreakable.

 

Fish use the quotes

 

It's easier to read

 

Easier to see the difference between your post and what your replying to.

[Guest Fishyswa]

Maybe I never paid enough attention early on but I don't remember him ever being that bad. He certainly isn't now though.

 

I understood it with Orton when he was fucking up RKO's, but Masters is simply doing his job right now, it's not outstanding but he's getting it done and I can't see the hate for that.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I think its the blandness that people notice and hate first.

 

edit: or so I noticed... what I mean is that if you're bland, it's easier to pick out flaws in your wrestling ability because they have nothing else to focus on. No personality to really enthrall them like Carlito.

[Carnival 0]

Maybe I never paid enough attention early on but I don't remember him ever being that bad. He certainly isn't now though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If your referring to batista, the only thing that has changed about him is he's a face....and the writers come up with "funny" things for him to say. He is still lame as HELL!