Vignettes - underutilized for babyfaces

[Guest proverbs1]

Vignettes are a great medium to help establish and/or promote characters for WWE. Why is it that only heel characters are built up through vignettes? I know that it's tough to 'make' the audience 'like' a character and you don't want to shove a debuting babyface down their throats....but I personally would love to see a new babyface character come across through vignettes before we actually see them make their debut. It' such a great way to get their personality across so they are relateable/likeable before they get in the ring. Also, the vignettes make the superstar more larger than life and therefore more important in storylines, ect. Any thoughts?

[razazteca 0]

But will they follow up with the hype? I remember Simon Dean doing the Simon System informorcials and him mocking the fat bastards in the front row during in ring promos but it never lead up to any feud or PPV match.

[Guest MikeSC]

Infomercials for faces would backfire WAY too easily.

[CanadianChick 0]

And if the faces aren't charismatic, it doesn't matter.

 

*coughGAILKIMcough*

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't know why they don't pick a babyface and do a sit-down interview with him based around the simple question of "Why do you wrestle?". There are so many answers that could be given that can then shape the character of the wrestler. It's much better than taking a look at the guys last name and then thinking "Hey, we can do something with that!".

[CanadianChick 0]

That's a good idea, but it really follows the same problem when the face is totally bland. Here's an example I'm sure you hold dear to your heart, because IIRC, you and Curry ripped this article to shreds.

 

Remember when Garrison Cade did a WWE.com interview, where he was so honoured to be in the same ring as Flair, or something really lame like that? There is such a temptation to go that lame respect route with faces.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Have the face upset a somewhat over heel. The heel flips his lid and beats the face down afterwards. The face comes back the next week and challenges the heel to a rematch. The heel wins through nefarious means. The heel, confident that he can win again, challenges the new face to another rematch, which the face accepts. Back-and-forth in the beginning, then the heel dominates, then the face comes back and wins decisively.

 

Bam. Instant over face, especially if they're TALENTED.

[TheFranchise 0]

Have the face upset a somewhat over heel. The heel flips his lid and beats the face down afterwards. The face comes back the next week and challenges the heel to a rematch. The heel wins through nefarious means. The heel, confident that he can win again, challenges the new face to another rematch, which the face accepts. Back-and-forth in the beginning, then the heel dominates, then the face comes back and wins decisively.

 

Bam. Instant over face, especially if they're TALENTED.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This could have been Paul London.

[Guest clockworkraven]

Have the face upset a somewhat over heel. The heel flips his lid and beats the face down afterwards. The face comes back the next week and challenges the heel to a rematch. The heel wins through nefarious means. The heel, confident that he can win again, challenges the new face to another rematch, which the face accepts. Back-and-forth in the beginning, then the heel dominates, then the face comes back and wins decisively.

 

Bam. Instant over face, especially if they're TALENTED.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This could have been Paul London.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If he wasn't a cruiserweight.

[Black Lushus 0]

they had a good thing going with Benjamin, somewhat similar to that scenario (minus the heel beatdown) and they completely tossed it away...what they did to him and RVD (yes I know I'm not a RVD advocate, but I do know he was screwed over) was completely unacceptable...

 

the problem is that the heels that are big enough to give such a rub just plain won't do it...

[JHawk 0]

Rocky Maivia was actually given a series of vignettes as a babyface when he was first brought in, and it was only as a heel 18 months later that he started getting over.

 

Outback Jack got some kickass vignettes as a babyface in 1986/87, but he sucked ass so it didn't matter.

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

Speaking of vignettes. Does anyone remember when Barry Windham came to the fed in '96 as The Stalker? It would have Barry wearing camouflage clothes and makeup hiding out in the woods talking how he's going to the stalking the superstars of the WWF. Yeah those went over real well.

 

Hell when I first say them I thought Barry was hosting a hunting show.

[Guest proverbs1]

But will they follow up with the hype?  I remember Simon Dean doing the Simon System informorcials and him mocking the fat bastards in the front row during in ring promos but it never lead up to any feud or PPV match.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Simon came in as a heel, so he doesn't really apply. It just seems like most of the more recent debuts with vignettes have been for heels. Cade and Murdoch, Carlito, Masterpiece, etc.

 

I think it's lame to have some new babyface just show up for a match. As much as I like Lashley, I think his debut could have been so much better with vignettes and would have gotten him over even more when he debuted.

 

WWE should consider this with some of their OVW developmental guys - they have some good babyfaces that could make a big impact if given the right promotion with vignettes. Everyone that comes in is a kick ass heel, give me somebody new that I can relate to and that has a cool/entertaining personality.

[JoeDirt 0]

It's easier to do vignettes for heels because heels can have more character initially because they're allowed to be cocky, dicks, pompous, annoying, etc. Babyfaces tend to be bland (obvious exceptions of course) unless they're given something to fight for...they were wronged in some way or whatever.

 

Just a thought. But I think vignettes could be used more effectively, for sure.

[CanadianChick 0]

That's a huge problem. Sure, it's tough to give faces a great personality, but with these TV show writers, they should at least have the ability to give a face likable qualities. If a character has just one likable quality, just one, it can work. It can be something as simple as saving a chick from a beatdown by a (male) heel. When one of your most likable characters in the past year is a pot smoker, your writing team sucks.

[Guest Biggles]

I think vignettes for a face would somehow make the fans resent him when he arrived....for a newcomer anyway. They work great for a returning star.

[Dandy 0]

I had an idea in a thread around the time of the 2005 Draft that I think would work very well for introducing characters. It was simply for OVW at the time, but could be easily changed to involve Deep South once it gets going.

 

OVW Draft would work. You can show highlights from matches down there, show "combine" workouts that they did, give some background on them, a short interview on why they chose wrestling, etc.

 

You could play up the differences between each wrestler just like real drafts, such as follows:

 

"Wrestler A" --- (6'3", 255) tremendous athlete; maybe the most potential in the draft; will be a project, as it will take him several months to a year before he is ready to compete with the big boys; probable #1 overall next year, but will most definitely get drafted this year; high-flying heavweight that needs work on his mat wrestling; finisher is a wheelbarrow suplex.

 

"Wrestler B" --- (6', 230) ready now; 4 years in OVW has shown him to be a good all-around technician; has a low-key personality that might not catch on with the fans right away, so if he wants to become a superstar he might want to learn to be more entertaining; good submission wrestler that usually finishes his matches with a Texas Cloverleaf.

 

"Wrestler C" --- (6'4", 265) hated by the fans so far in his career; has a knack for getting under the fans' skin with his brash personality; more of a brawler that needs to round out his wrestling; great physique, good talker, lacks substance in the ring; finisher is a powerbomb into a chokeslam.

 

And so on....

 

 

I was thinking either this draft takes the place of the current draft, and allow trades during that time, or this draft could occur during the fall/winter during a dead period.

[Black Lushus 0]

eldandy, not a bad idea...

[edotherocket 0]

The Rey Mysterio "He's Coming" vignettes were pretty cool. But that was more due to having an accomplished production crew than having any clever writing.

[Guest JMA]

The best thing to do is not to make the fans get sick of the character before he arrives. Thus, the best way to deal with babyface vignettes is to make them vague. This gets the fans talking and makes them anxious to see the character perform for the first time. This doesn't work if the wrestler is a dud in the ring, though.

[TheFranchise 0]

Reading this thread makes me remember how excited people were for Nathan Jones' arrival.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Why can't someone debut with a press confrence?

[tominator89 0]

Didn't Pillman have one when he joined WWF?

[Downhome 0]

I don't know why they don't pick a babyface and do a sit-down interview with him based around the simple question of "Why do you wrestle?".  There are so many answers that could be given that can then shape the character of the wrestler.  It's much better than taking a look at the guys last name and then thinking "Hey, we can do something with that!".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They should have done that with Matt Striker. He showed a lot of personality on ByteThis.

 

Didn't Pillman have one when he joined WWF?

 

Yes he did. If I remember correctly, he was playing the hurt babyface role before he signed his contract in the skit, then as soon as he signed his name he "snapped", thus the Loose Cannon gimmick, in one of my favorite wrestling moments ever.

 

Talk about a fucking great character...as well as a hell of a look for it all:

 

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

The best thing to do is not to make the fans get sick of the character before he arrives. Thus, the best way to deal with babyface vignettes is to make them vague. This gets the fans talking and makes them anxious to see the character perform for the first time. This doesn't work if the wrestler is a dud in the ring, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I remember when WWF did this with Sid Justice when he first came to the fed in '91. The would just show these really short vignettes of Sid laughing, looking angry, etc. I don't recall him talking in them either. And there was a question if he would be a heel or face from the fans.

[Epic Reine 0]

It's all about who he faces in his debut. If you're running vignettes and his first match is against a face then obviously, he'll be the heel. If he's facing a heel then he's a face.

 

And I'm not talking about jobber faces like Hurricane, Stevie, Tajiri etc. because when he debuted, face Val Venis defeated face Scorpio and in his debut, heel Chris Masters destroyed heel Stevie Richards. Make his debuted against a midcard heel if you want to portray someone as a face after running vignettes.

[Guest JMA]

The best thing to do is not to make the fans get sick of the character before he arrives. Thus, the best way to deal with babyface vignettes is to make them vague. This gets the fans talking and makes them anxious to see the character perform for the first time. This doesn't work if the wrestler is a dud in the ring, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I remember when WWF did this with Sid Justice when he first came to the fed in '91. The would just show these really short vignettes of Sid laughing, looking angry, etc. I don't recall him talking in them either. And there was a question if he would be a heel or face from the fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't remember those vignettes myself, but they sound like the correct way to bring a face into a promotion. I do remember the whole controversy on whether he was going to help Hogan or side with Slaughter, though. I also remember Sid getting cheered over Hogan at the Royal Rumble (!) and even doing a kip-up in the match itself (!!).

[hyperchord24 0]

You do realize that this is the WWE we're talking about, right? They've proven time and again that they don't have a CLUE about how to write a wrestling show anymore.

 

John Cena used to get over by rapping in the ring. Does he still do that?

I do remember Tazz's vignettes before he debuted, when the ring would go orange and you'd hear a lifeline beeping. That was very effective.

 

EDIT: It's become increasingly hard to be a face or even a babyface in recent years, since SCSA basically revolutionized what it is to be a face in this business. I remember when Angle was first coming in. They did a buch of "interviews" about how he's so humbled and honored to get a chance to wrestle in the WWE, making him a babyface. Of course he's been a heel pretty much since his debut. Put both these guys back in the 80's and their roles would be completely reversed. The fans don't want a goody two-shoes anymore. They want someone they can relate to. What does this mean? More elaborate storylines and yes, the use of vignettes.

[Jericholic82 0]

You do realize that this is the WWE we're talking about, right?  They've proven time and again that they don't have a CLUE about how to write a wrestling show anymore.

 

John Cena used to get over by rapping in the ring.  Does he still do that?

I do remember Tazz's vignettes before he debuted, when the ring would go orange and you'd hear a lifeline beeping.  That was very effective.

 

EDIT:  It's become increasingly hard to be a face or even a babyface in recent years, since SCSA basically revolutionized what it is to be a face in this business.  I remember when Angle was first coming in.  They did a buch of "interviews" about how he's so humbled and honored to get a chance to wrestle in the WWE, making him a babyface.  Of course he's been a heel pretty much since his debut.  Put both these guys back in the 80's and their roles would be completely reversed.  The fans don't want a goody two-shoes anymore.  They want someone they can relate to.  What does this mean?  More elaborate storylines and yes, the use of vignettes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

angle was meant to be a heel, his vignettes also showcase an annoucner talking about how great he was to the point where the fans would get sick of it all, and it being 1999 the all-amercian good two shoes babyface was not the "in" thing. and when he started his promos weere always about how he wa sa hero and should be loved. of course making his debut match against heatless Shawn Stasiak was a bad idea, but angle made up for it by getting on the mic and saying "you do not boo an olympic gold medaliest"

 

anyhow back to topic, I agree. the problem seems to be that all the new guys seem come in as heels lately (save for Lashley)

[Guest Edgehead]

Back in 98' in true Vince Russo fashion they did vignettes for people like Val Venis and Edge as tweeners so when there live debut came about they could get the reaction of the fans and go fom there.