The Super pre-SNME Thread

[JimmyHendricks 0]

The sad thing is, Vince will probably get just as much offense in at WrestleMania, which is even worse.

I'm not so sure. Vince seems to have a better grasp on reality (as fucking scary as that may be) than Shane. Shane legit thinks he's one of the boys and has every right to dominate the match. Vince has shown signs of sanity in this matches (The Austin cage match, the Undertaker BA match) where he gets NO offense.

 

Vince knows the $ is in getting his ass kicked.

 

 

I think it also has to do with who he faces as well. Austin and Taker probably wouldn't agree to be beaten up by the 56 year old owner of the company.

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

What made this show any different than an average RAW or Smackdown....other than having both "brands" involved?? If anything this show was worse because there was even less wrestling than we get to see on Raw/Smackdown.

 

This was a boring show with way too many skits and forced "Attitude era" type segments.

 

I guess they are catering to the most common casual fan now, I mean they focus on stuff like the Boogie man, woman's wrestling (WWE's version of T&A), Steve Austin & the McMahons.

 

The only people I can see being entertained by this show was kids in junior high,

 

Sorry but this was a disgrace to the SNME legacy.

[Papacita 0]

Eh, this was the first wrestling show (not counting tapes and a handful of Velocity matches) I've seen since January, and for what it was I thought it was enjoyable.

 

I thought the opening match was pretty well done, the only criticism being that Angle came off as too much of an after thought to me (in fact, Smackdown came off as an after thought throughout the show, but that's not all that surprising I guess). I enjoyed the JBL/Austin thing way more than I should have (they had pretty good chemistry tonight), though if they're trying to build to a match with Benoit, they should've featured him a little more prominently. Candace was looking nice as hell tonight, and the Mickie turn was ok, if a little predictable (I'm a little surprised she's just turning NOW though...they've dragged this thing out way too long). The Foley/Edge and Taker/Henry segments both came off weak to me, although they get some cool points for that sick casket bump from Divari. And I did like the street fight aside from the ending...I really didn't have a problem with Shane controlling, especially with Vince being out there to run interference. And the Van Terminator and Superplex spots were pretty cool.

 

Edit: Didn't sell me on WM at all though.

[Guest Coffey]

I'm sure non-regular fans were thrilled by all the shots of people kissing Vince's ass.

What about the thumbtacks, flaming tables, chair shots, ladder spots, T&A, Stone Cold Stunners, etc.? I'd say the show did it's job.

 

Just remember, all you people complaining about the "lack of wrestling," "this is your life" featuring The Rock and Mick Foley, which lasted for about half an hour, is the highest rated segment in Raw history. At least to the best of my knowledge.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

It was great in that it was entertaining and did a good job of catching non-regular fans up-to-date and selling them on Wrestlemania.

Do we want non regulars to know whats going on? Who on earth is going to be turned on to either world title program, for example? Whos going to want to watch raw if they think they're going to see Vince McMahon's ass?

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

And I did like the street fight aside from the ending...I really didn't have a problem with Shane controlling, especially with Vince being out there to run interference.

Shawn Michaels is a four time world champion. Shane should have had ONE offensive move. A punch that was no sold. The angle of the match could have been "If this is what Shawn will do to Tubby, what will he do to Vince?" Instead, we can add Shawn Michaels to the list of people that Shane McMahon dominated. He is so far past out of control that its not even funny anymore.

[spman 0]

This show tonight was baaaaaaaad, even by WWEs standards. Just way way way way WAY too much talking and other sports entertainment nonsense. What the fuck was the point of the JBL segment? Was it Jim Cornette who always used to say that if an angle isn't going to build up to a match, then it's generally a waste of time and won't make you any money? That was this segment to the tee. Just get in the ring, and fucking wrestle, is that so much to ask? I can understand the commercial breaks every 5 minutes, because that's just the nature of the beast, but there's no excuse at all for only 20 minutes of wrestling on a 2 hour wrestling show.

[Black Lushus 0]

you guys didn't really expect more than what you got...did you???

[Papacita 0]

And I did like the street fight aside from the ending...I really didn't have a problem with Shane controlling, especially with Vince being out there to run interference.

Shawn Michaels is a four time world champion. Shane should have had ONE offensive move. A punch that was no sold. The angle of the match could have been "If this is what Shawn will do to Tubby, what will he do to Vince?" Instead, we can add Shawn Michaels to the list of people that Shane McMahon dominated. He is so far past out of control that its not even funny anymore.

Thing about Shawn though is that while he is a four time Champion, he's not exactly a notorious tough guy, so in his case it's not all that unbelievable for Shane to get some offense on him, especially in a street fight. If it was a straight up match and he had been wrestling circles around him, yeah that'd be a problem, but as is I really don't see anything so bad about it.

[humongous2002 0]

And at least he did a better job in getting Shane over than he did with Jericho back in 2003.

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

And I did like the street fight aside from the ending...I really didn't have a problem with Shane controlling, especially with Vince being out there to run interference.

Shawn Michaels is a four time world champion. Shane should have had ONE offensive move. A punch that was no sold. The angle of the match could have been "If this is what Shawn will do to Tubby, what will he do to Vince?" Instead, we can add Shawn Michaels to the list of people that Shane McMahon dominated. He is so far past out of control that its not even funny anymore.

Thing about Shawn though is that while he is a four time Champion, he's not exactly a notorious tough guy,

I don't care. He's an accomplished professional wrestler who has fought and in most cases defeated every name of the last 20 years. Hogan Flair Austin Hart Diesel Sid Undertaker HHH Jericho Angle Benoit (And recent big stars Batista Cena Orton) The idea that he cant easily handle the owner's fat son that runs the internet is fucking absurd.

[Just John 0]

Even if Shawn isn't notoriously tough by wrestler standards, he should still be able to beat up a non-wrestler and non-trained fighter pretty easily. You said Shawn could wrestle circles around him, so why doesn't Shawn wear him down with wrestling, then pull out the weapons?

 

Besides, Shane's history for making wrestlers look bad is undeniable. See: Big Show, Kurt Angle, Kane, and now Michaels. The only wrestler that beat Shane's ass like he should have was Steve freakin' Blackman.

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

Did this show do anything to get an "average fan" to buy Wrestlemania??

 

I mean I really doubt it got older or former fans who watched in the 80's/early 90's to want to buy it, because they are not going to pay $$$ to see a bunch of guys talking in the ring about drinking beer, Undetrtaker beating another jobber, horrible women's wrestling or to see the owner of the company go against Shawn Michaels...which is what this show hyped.

 

I guess Vince was aiming for the trailor park/junior high crowd demographic with this show??

[Guest Dam(o)nYankees]

They actually made me care less about the two world title programs. The novelty of virtuous babyface Cena overcoming all the odds as the crowd shits all over it isnt even that funny anymore

 

And the other feud. Where do you begin? Randy Orton isn't over. Not even a little. We joke about it here and bring it up when he comes out and whatever and how he really shouldn't be in the title match at Wrestlemania. But truth is, if they insisted on him being in it, they probably could have hid him in the match and then let him win at the show or whatever they want to do.

 

But they are building THE WHOLE PROGRAM around him. Angle, world champion is a complete afterthought in this feud. Rey's whole role is foil to Orton. The whole story of this entire angle is that Orton is a dick. The last two Smackdowns, the last Raw and SNME was built around that. But no one cares. How can they expect to sell the show on a match when the focus is on a guy they have no connection with? Hell, at least they feel passionately about Cena.

[Downhome 0]

The high point of the show to me was Foley busting out the old school fucking psycho Cactus Jack facial expression.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Here's what this show needed to do.

 

Take one wrestler. All they need is one. Focus the show around him. Make him seem important. Create an excitement around him. Like he's the coolest motherfucker on the planet and people are missing out on him. Make people who are watching for the first time want to see more of that guy, because a guy that popular, a guy that has that much attention on him, is someone they should keep their eye on.

 

At one time, that would have been John Cena. But they can't do that with John because half the crowd hates him. They never took any stance on that and ignored it and they couldn't push him like they should have on the night they had their biggest audience. They had something hot and fresh with Edge and they ignored it. Rey Mysterio is one of their biggest fan favourites and they ignore it. Why did they ignore it? Because it didn't fit in with their plans. Instead of listening to the fans as Vince likes to say he does, they have created numerous matches that few want to see, that no one is excited about. So when it came to selling Wrestlemania, WHEN IT CAME TO SELLING THE WWE, they had no clear position to sell. They had no one wrestler for the audience to latch on to. They did not have any standouts. They failed.

 

On their big night they couldn't do anything more than go to the past, to present to the audience what they have been presenting for 8 fucking years, which the fans don't want to see any more and couldn't have made it more clear to the WWE. They could have used tonight to present something different, to present something fresh, to present something the audience hasn't seen before. Their answer to that was the finish of the Michaels/McMahon match. A finish that happened almost 10 years ago. A finish that they have done over, and over, and over, and over again. They had JR and the King announcing. They had the same shitty pyro they always have. They had the same production, the same camera work, the same style of presentation. They had Steve Austin go on and on and on about drinkin beer. They had evil bad guy Vince McMahon. They had the screw job finish. They had HHH as the focus out of all their top guys. They had Taker and Mark fucking Henry. The only thing I can think they did that could have possibly have interested anyone was the Boogeyman and Booker T, and that won't sell anything. They have no idea what they are doing. At all. This show achieved nothing.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And after almost 10 years Vince still doesn't get why Survivor Series 1997 worked. Why people were interested in it. Why it captured our imaginations and our emotions. It's hilarious to see someone try to recreate something again and again and again and see it not work but then still tries to do it again and again and again because it worked that one time.

[Downhome 0]

Here's what this show needed to do.

 

Take one wrestler. All they need is one. Focus the show around him. Make him seem important. Create an excitement around him. Like he's the coolest motherfucker on the planet and people are missing out on him. Make people who are watching for the first time want to see more of that guy, because a guy that popular, a guy that has that much attention on him, is someone they should keep their eye on.

 

Once upon a time, that's exactly what they did with the old SNME shows.

 

They also did it on RAW throughout the 90's, which also worked. Since they lost They Rock and Austin, they've really been stuck. They either haven't had anyone who could carry the company like that, or when they have had people with that ability, they don't pull the trigger on them.

 

Kurt Angle should be the Hogan/Rock/Austin of this time, but he's not presented in that strong of a light, and it fucking puzzles me why they've never treated him like those big time guys. This show could have been built around Angle/Taker, with HHH/Cena rounding out the "big time feel".

 

Steve Austin needs to stay away from WWE from now on, only returning to actually take part in one of the few big matches he has left in him (vs. Goldberg, Hogan). When I see him on TV now, doing this same exact thing, it's just pathetic at this point.

[SuperJerk 0]

EDIT: Another reason I don't think it'll be bad is I don't think Vince is dumb enough to do stupid shit on a prime time network special like he'd do on his weekly shows.

 

Do you mean his prime time network weekly show, or his primetime cable weekly show?

Comparing either UPN or USA to NBC is retarded. This is a much bigger platform.

 

You know what happened when NBC showed episodes of my beloved "Battlestar Galactica" last summer?

It got the exact same ratings as it does on the Sci-Fi Channel.

SNME will get the combined viewership of Raw and Smackdown, and that's it.

 

What generally happens when Vince gets a bigger stage? Instead of just focusing on putting on the best wrestling show possible, he thinks he has to appeal to the same demographics as popular mainstream programs. Do the words "Halftime Heat" mean anything to you?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Angle is too broken down, though he gets the job done in regards to popping an audience in the ring better than anyone they have right now cept for maybe...

 

Rey would be a better bet, IMO. They could have inserted clips of Rey Mysterio throughout the show, doing all these crazy moves, talking about Eddie Guerrero to a larger audience, and getting over that he's a really exciting guy, but he's small so he's the underdog, so the question -the mystery- is: can he really win the belt at Wrestlemania? But Rey isn't who they have their bet on, they have theirs on Orton.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

On the plus-side, I can pretty much pick out all the people whose opinions are worthless to me. See, those that liked the show I lump in the "worthless" category. Not specifically because they liked this show, but I am finding a lot of the names I see who liked this show are names that, in the past, I have found myself labelling as mouth-breathers for other stupid things they have said, thought, or felt for that matter. I should probably make a list just for record-keeping purposes, because after a while folks get jumbled together and I tend to lose my discretion when reading peoples opinions. It's a lot easier seeing a name, thinking "stupid", then skipping over what would have most likely have been a stupid post.

[Guest wildpegasus]

The show tonight bored me out my mind and basically just frustrated me. Besides a few good moments there was nothing entertaining for me.

[chaosrage 0]

Oh, this show was tonight? How was it?

[cbacon 0]

Why are Michales and McMahon feuding again?

[Guest]

Oh, this show was tonight? How was it?

I saw the last match. It was a heap of shit.

 

Oh, and the set was nice. That was the only good thing I saw.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Rey would be a better bet, IMO. They could have inserted clips of Rey Mysterio throughout the show, doing all these crazy moves, talking about Eddie Guerrero to a larger audience, and getting over that he's a really exciting guy, but he's small so he's the underdog, so the question -the mystery- is: can he really win the belt at Wrestlemania? But Rey isn't who they have their bet on, they have theirs on Orton.

 

You mean focus the event on the guy from Smackdown? Yeah, that doesn't work out for McMahon.

 

This felt like a RAW, except only on Saturday and with a few Smackdown guys on it.

 

The Raw/Smackdown Main Event tag match also made no sense at all. They should have built it up as the winning side, gets the actual Main Event spot at Mania... maybe then I would have given a damn about it.

 

Also, if you want to see just how sad it is for the WWE to be on at a prime time slot now... just look at the ads during the shows course. Larry the Cable Guy's movie and the Ultimate Scrubber for $19.95. This is supposed to be primetime network TV.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Because they want Bret Hart involved in an angle.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But the whole *point* of the tag match was for the teams to turn on each other, and it wouldn't have made sense for them to turn on each other if there was something on the line. SILLY.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Oh my, I guess it all makes sense now.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

In the WWE Logic, it makes sense. In real world logic, why any of those guys *specifically Rey* would not start beating the shit out of their partner *specifically Randy "Eddie is in Hell" Orton* does not make any sense whatsoever.