Marvel's Civil War

[Ted the Poster 0]

As for the traitor, I'm thinking it's either Hank Pym or Reed Richards; most likely Reed since he's supposed to be shipped off into comic book limbo with Sue to try and rebuild their marriage after Civil War ends, allowing Black Panther and Storm to reform the FF with Ben and Johnny.

How many times is this now that the team has broken up for some reason? It seems like it's happened a lot, but I'm not a big FF fan so I could be wrong.

[JasonX 0]

As for the traitor, I'm thinking it's either Hank Pym or Reed Richards; most likely Reed since he's supposed to be shipped off into comic book limbo with Sue to try and rebuild their marriage after Civil War ends, allowing Black Panther and Storm to reform the FF with Ben and Johnny.

How many times is this now that the team has broken up for some reason? It seems like it's happened a lot, but I'm not a big FF fan so I could be wrong.

 

In this magnitude? Once, in 1987 when Steve Englehart took over the book and got rid of Sue and Reed so that he could bring Thing's then-girlfriend Sharon Venture and Human Torch's sluttified (by Englehart IIRC) ex-girlfriend Crystal onto the team.

 

On the plus side though, with JMS leaving the book and the McDuffie taking over the book, we might just fucking get a non-shitty version of Storm and Black Panther to read.

[Scroby 0]

You know, when you think about it, that'd be one hell of a team with Black Panther, Storm, The Thing, and the Human Torch. Though I think it would take awhile for the team to form since Thing is in Paris and already has joined another team.

[SuperJerk 0]

As for the traitor, I'm thinking it's either Hank Pym or Reed Richards; most likely Reed since he's supposed to be shipped off into comic book limbo with Sue to try and rebuild their marriage after Civil War ends, allowing Black Panther and Storm to reform the FF with Ben and Johnny.

How many times is this now that the team has broken up for some reason? It seems like it's happened a lot, but I'm not a big FF fan so I could be wrong.

 

In this magnitude? Once, in 1987 when Steve Englehart took over the book and got rid of Sue and Reed so that he could bring Thing's then-girlfriend Sharon Venture and Human Torch's sluttified (by Englehart IIRC) ex-girlfriend Crystal onto the team.

Two words: Fantastic Force.

[Steviekick 0]

Don't remind me of Fantastic Force. The nineties were mighty rough on the F4, especially Defalco's run on the title. Stupid vanity projects...

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Issue 6 came out.

 

It's really good, in a "you MUST buy the next issue" kinda way. Plus, there's a MAJOR "ha ha!" crazy moment when someone gets kicked off Cap's team.

[Steviekick 0]

The moment is really good and is expanded upon in

Punisher War Journal #2

. It was a fun read, but a little two fast paced for me.

 

Oh, and the scene with Sue Storm/Namor is boss.

 

I also picked up Civil War: War Crimes where Iron Man goes to pay a visit to Kingpin. It's a fun read.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Issue 6 is getting some fairly big criticism from the 'net for Iron Man basically putting over teaming with the villains "How can you stand up to the World's Greatest Heroes AND the World's Greatest Villains!" as well as for treating Panther & Storm like minor characters who all of a sudden wanna brawl, which was ridiculous.

 

Civil War needed to be a 4 issue series, BTW.

 

Speaking of Kingpin...

 

Read the new Amazing Spider-Man.

 

:::tissues:::

[Scroby 0]

I want issue 6 so badly but I have to wait till next week. The only shop near me that I know off and where I buy my stuff, had their order fucked up and won't be getting issue 6 until next week. They got everything else, but didn't get that one motherfuckin issue!

 

Not to happy about that but I picked up everything else, yup, issue 6 is going to be spoiled for me, and I'm pist off about that!

[Steviekick 0]

The West Coast got fucked over with this week's comics.

 

That and

farewell Mary Jane and/or Aunt May

.

[Scroby 0]

How did the west coast get fucked over?

[Steviekick 0]

Something about the shipment of a bunch of titles for this week. Basically they got held up some where (due to the holidays/weather), so the comic stores that are served by the LA Diamond warehouse didn't get everything they order. Civil War is one of the titles effected. I read that comic shops on the west coast wound up getting 10-15% of all the copies of CW that they ordered.

 

The rest will be there by next week, so you won't miss out on it completely.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

That sucks.

 

Just read the Wikipedia entry, Scroby. Trust me. #6 was basically the second half of #5.

[Scroby 0]

That sucks.

 

Just read the Wikipedia entry, Scroby. Trust me. #6 was basically the second half of #5.

But but I read the comic! I wanna be like "ohhhhhh!"

 

Gotdamnit!

[SuperJerk 0]

Issue 6 is getting some fairly big criticism from the 'net for Iron Man basically putting over teaming with the villains "How can you stand up to the World's Greatest Heroes AND the World's Greatest Villains!" as well as for treating Panther & Storm like minor characters who all of a sudden wanna brawl, which was ridiculous.

 

Iron Man teaming up with villians against his friends just doesn't make sense period.

 

As far as Storm goes, the rest of the X-Men staying nuetral doesn't really make sense either.

 

Still, this issue kicked all kinds of ass purely on a roller-coastery "Oh no they didn't!" level.

[Steviekick 0]

Storm joining the Secret Avengers makes sense, since her husband, Black Panther, has been leading an international movement against the US's Super Hero Registration Act.

 

I can see why the X-Men stayed neutral. After the events of House of M/Decimation, it would make sense for them to want to stay out of any major conflict.

[SuperJerk 0]

I don't get that...the X-Men aren't known for backing down from a fight. Surely they'd have to realize that if the government had no problem throwing popular heroes like Capt. America into prison, they'd have no problems solving the mutant problem the same way. There's no reason the Registration Act couldn't be used against mutants.

[Steviekick 0]

I totally agree with you, especially since the Mutant Registration Act has been brought up a bunch of times in the X books. It would make sense for them to oppose the SHRA. I know that Quesada has said something to the extent of Marvel wanting to make Civil War focus on the Avengers and not the X-Men.

 

Plus, as of late it seems that the US government and the X-Men are on good terms as of late, with the 198 and everything. I do beleve that the X-Men will propably be prominent and their next big event, the one that's shaping up in post World War Hulk.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

If Hulk leads an army to Earth and kills several major heroes, including one of the Illuminati, I'd be very happy.

[Kaertos 0]

You know, the more I think about it the less sense it makes for the X-Man to stay on the sidelines. They've been fighting against the Mutant Registration Act for what, 30 years of comics now? So the Registration Act happens, in effect, and they say, "Nah, we're sitting this one out. It's nice for the other heroes to see what we go through."

 

It makes no sense at all. Basically what they are saying is that they've seen all of these possible futures where a Registration Act happens and the world is just destroyed, and when it is actually happening they say "Fuck 'em"? Baffling to me, and it makes me like the characters even less than I did before. If Professor X was around they wouldn't be acting like petulant little brats, they'd be on Cap's side kicking some ass.

[Special K 0]

You know, all of this wouldn't be so bad. My main contention with the series is the characterization of Reed Richards. Iron Man's characterization actaully makes some sense.

 

However, this is Marvel's big crossover, and it's how much late? screwing up all kinds of title launches and some of their flagshipo titles.

 

Meanwhile DC has managed to pump out 52 once a fucking WEEK, and keep up the ridiculous notion of having their entire line be affected by the events, but not reveal anything! DC is making Marvel look EXTREMELY bush-league, and Marvel should thank their lucky stars that their movies have done so well.

 

P.S. Nextwave is the greatest thing in Marvel, and makes me take a shit in my socks. Then the socks punch me in the face and explode.

[starvenger 0]

You know, all of this wouldn't be so bad. My main contention with the series is the characterization of Reed Richards. Iron Man's characterization actaully makes some sense.

 

However, this is Marvel's big crossover, and it's how much late? screwing up all kinds of title launches and some of their flagshipo titles.

 

Meanwhile DC has managed to pump out 52 once a fucking WEEK, and keep up the ridiculous notion of having their entire line be affected by the events, but not reveal anything! DC is making Marvel look EXTREMELY bush-league, and Marvel should thank their lucky stars that their movies have done so well.

 

P.S. Nextwave is the greatest thing in Marvel, and makes me take a shit in my socks. Then the socks punch me in the face and explode.

Yet I couldn't get into 52, and am way into Civil War. DC was way too ambitious with their multiple storylines at the beginning, and they've seemed to have gotten it together heading into the home stretch. CW: Frontline, meanwhile, has managed to be pretty cohesive despite having the multiple stories.

 

And yes, Nextwave does rule. Too bad it's ending soon.

[Special K 0]

HOT DAMN! GET me a crate of vodka, eight loose women and a stomach pump, STAT! IMMA WATCH TEEVEE!

 

Hee, Nextwave is like Transmet with tourette's. And Transmet was Ellis with Tourette's. I've read a shitload of comix, and the Iron Man/Mr.Sensitive fight and Celestials/Machine Man conversation are the only things that have made me bust a gut laughing.

 

That said, some of the lead-up to INfinite Crisis was overdone. I thought Rann/Thannagar and OMAC were boring as shit, and while I thought Kord's death was an appropriate send-off, I STILL don't buy Max Lord as an evil mastermind. It just smacks of last-second scrambling.

 

But Infinite Crisis was incredibly great, much, much better than Crisis on Infinite Earths. And 52 has been really compelling, even if I don't care for a couple of the storylines. (Question, Steel)

 

Civil War has been fairly good. They're obviously going with the Authority/Ultimates hyooj war thing, but it has none of the characterization that made those series good. RR is acting WAYYY out of character, (c.mon recruiting Bullseye?) and it has none of the 'pick a side' subtlety that they promised.

 

And it's way, way, way late. How could they let that happen? Hire a freelance artist. get your shit straight. Prolonging every issue for 2 months is so ridiculous.

[starvenger 0]

And it's way, way, way late. How could they let that happen? Hire a freelance artist. get your shit straight. Prolonging every issue for 2 months is so ridiculous.

How could it NOT happen? It's a Millar book, after all...

[Special K 0]

Oh shit, I have to take a random stab at government in general and still have people fight? Morrison just told me to take drugs, shit my brain onto a scriptboard and roll with it. Jerk.

 

P.S. I like Morisson.

[Steviekick 0]

Oh shit, I have to take a random stab at government in general and still have people fight? Morrison just told me to take drugs, shit my brain onto a scriptboard and roll with it. Jerk.

 

P.S. I like Morisson.

 

????

 

I'm lost.

[Special K 0]

Yeah, that was dumb. Apologies. I didn't even mean Morrison, I meant Warren Ellis. Either way, that wasn't coherent. And dumb.

 

But I don't see why Millar can't get out an issue on time. Doesn't he have and editor? It is the biggest 'event' of theirs in years. I dunno. The committe approach with '52' is killing, IMO, and THey're just waiting for refular writers'artists to twiddle their thumbs?

[Steviekick 0]

No problem. The whole thing went over my head.

 

No clue why Millar is always late. The weird part is that Marvel doesn't even seem to care.

[Justice 0]

My big problems with Civil War

 

1) It's almost-complete disconnect from any of the other major events that have happened recently.

 

No, I'm not talking about things like roster line-ups and stuff, I'm talking about the complete lack of connection to House of M and Decimation. I remember when this was first being pitched, and the reason registration was going to come up was due to the Scarlet Witch warping Earth's reality freaking out the general populace (Or so someone on this board said). That's a great way to move into Civil War. What happens? The New Warriors fuck something up and we get an event that is not connected with anything currently going on causing this. No build, no connection, no nothing. Random event occurs (And worse has happened before) and we are suddenly divided.

 

In comparison, look at Infinite Crisis. The build started two years before it started, and I don't know a comic book that didn't have some connection to the main plot via the 4 tie-ins. That's how you build a crossover that means something. And frankly, right now that's what I see as the big differences in the companies: DC is far superior in coordinating and building their universe, while Marvel seems to impulsively put out a great idea without thinking how they can connect and execute it.

 

2) The Main Series is completely lacking in content and fails to keep a coherent story thread throughout it.

 

Seriously, the main book is almost useless. Sadly, this falls both on writer and artist for different reasons.

 

First, writer. Millar's writing is so schizophrenic it's not even funny. We get a little bit of something, but before that develops, we are wisked off to something else before getting any sort of real value out of it. Nothing in the main series is seen long enough to get a good explanation of it. It's like watching a movie trailer over and over and over again; we are getting all the cool stuff ("WOW! CAPTAIN AMERICA SURFING ON A FIGHTER JET!" and "WHOA! THOR HAS SHOWN UP!") but we don't get enough story to really get a deep look at what is motivating these people. We have to look at the half a dozen ULTRA SECRET MEETINGS between Captain America and Iron Man to figure it out, along with half a dozen other random side-comics to find out what's really going on. There's no real substance in the main series to make it worth looking at.

 

And while I love Steve McNiven's art... his large panels and full-page splashes hurt the story. Read IC: There are plenty of great moments, but they compress a lot of story into those pages by efficient use of each page. In Civil War, per page you're lucky to get 5 panels, and more often you just get 3 or 4 followed by a splash page or a two-page spread. It's great to have a lot of cinematic shots, but there needs to be those filler pages where people are really getting down to the exposition of the plot and moving it along.

 

Both of these things make me feel like this whole thing is as shallow as a wading pool. Rather than being a really interesting take on registration, it just wants to be cool instead, and that just doesn't work this sort of story.

 

3) Characterizations that are confusing and sometimes contradictory within the crossover itself.

 

Tony Stark can be manipulative, but he's not a Doctor Doom analog. Reed Richards can be oblivious, but he's not stupid and he has a strong set of moral guidelines and a devotion to his family that is almost unreal. Captain America is resolute, but not stubborn and grizzled to the point of not talking at all. It's all these out-there characterizations that are turning me off. Look at the differences in Tony from Civil War to Amazing Spider-Man to Iron Man. In the first, he's resolute but not completely unreasonable, then in the second he's pretty much a facist, and in the final one he's like a lost puppy. I mean, at least get your characterizations consistant. I know that Reed Richards can be too geeky, but watching him admit to Peter Parker that he's doing this because he's afraid of the government, along with the fact that he doesn't seem to believe in this at all and sacrificed his family for it is just too much. It just boggles my mind.

 

4) Frontline going from good to bad to worse.

 

Frontline was one of the reasons that I kept watching this story for so long. It had two interesting main characters and provided some more information on things. Now, looking at it, it just seems to be a mess. We get an Atlantian plot that really goes nowhere (and gets the weirdest historical comparison I've ever seen), a Green Goblin plot that also hasn't paid off yet, and the little end things that were getting attrociously preachy. The new plot of 'Stark's doing it for the money!' seems tacked on and what was advertised as getting the 'little guy's perspective' doesn't really come through.1

 

5) Delays

 

This is pretty self-explanitory. I haven't seen anything so fantastic that it would really warrent delaying everything for 3 months. This should have been planned and done and ready enough so that we'd only have a few minor (read: one-week) delays. This thing feels drawn out, and that's because it should have been over by now.

 

6) Inability to let people make their own choice.

 

This was build as "Whose side are you on?" Well, let's look at the sides:

 

- Captain America and the Freedom Fighters.

- Iron Man's posse + World's Greatest Villains + Clone Thor.

 

Seriously, we haven't seen anything that makes registration worthwhile. From Stark's Clone Thor to Richards' horrifying Negative Zone Prison to the use of the Thunderbolts to take down heroes to corrupt S.H.I.E.L.D. to possible insider trading by Tony and a whole slew of horrible things, we have no reason to even look at the Registration side with anything less than a plot by the government to turn the US into a military state. Millar's put a political spin on this comic that gets more and more unbearable as it goes on, and frankly it's just getting irritating. I supported registration when it first stated... and then they CLONED THOR for NO REASON WHATSOEVER. You have the damned SENTRY. Why do you need Thor? The whole thing seems to be one long political commentary showing us "Don't trust Big Guv-er-mint!" and it's just getting tired now.

 

Whew. That was a rant I needed to get out.

[SuperJerk 0]

"we are getting all the cool stuff"= sales