500,000 march in LA

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Invader3k, you hit it right on the head: we should bill the immigrants country of origin for all of the costs they incur in our country.

 

Regardless of the kind of immigration policy we end up with (hell, it could even be open immigration), you guys are clinically insane if you don't think the borders should be fenced and guarded with some sort of military presence. Open land between Mexico and the US is a MAJOR security vulnerability.

[Ripper 0]

Jesus there is some retardation going on in here. I am not going through all these pages, so I will assume someone pointed out that there is no possible way that illegal immigrants are taking more money out of the economy than what they are putting back in so we will leave it there.

 

Ripper - Still doesn't give a shit about illegals.

[Guest]

I'd say there's close to 500,000 out in LA right now.

[SuperJerk 0]

Regardless of the kind of immigration policy we end up with (hell, it could even be open immigration), you guys are clinically insane if you don't think the borders should be fenced and guarded with some sort of military presence. Open land between Mexico and the US is a MAJOR security vulnerability.

That's what I'm saying.

 

Jesus there is some retardation going on in here. I am not going through all these pages, so I will assume someone pointed out that there is no possible way that illegal immigrants are taking more money out of the economy than what they are putting back in so we will leave it there.

You must admit the possibility that even more money would be put into the economy if people who held their jobs were paid more than a few cents an hour.

 

My solution is to let immigrants in, but do it legally so you not only ensure they're paid at least a minimum wage, that they are protected by worker safety regulations, and so that we can screen them for potential security risks.

[Ripper 0]

Yes, more money would pe put in. But the cost of doing so would be offsetting.

 

Seriously, if you charge 2-3 companies that depend on immigrant labor a few more percent in taxes, then you offset any cost the immigrants are having on the tax system, and you still reap the benifits of the immigrant spending including sales tax, food, housing, clothing, and entertainment. Plus if you legalize them, they are entitled to all public benifits which will cost even more money. If you view this as outsourcing with a bonus, you got a winning stragedy.

[NoCalMike 0]

People also forget though, when you are a low-wage worker without benefits, other things tend to cost more. For instance, I have benefits from work so if I get sick or get a minor infection I can go to the doctor for small fee and get fixed up.

 

An illegal immigrant probably would be holding out on going to the doctor until emergency room service is needed, costing the taxpayer more.

[NoCalMike 0]

When it comes to immigrants, the most important thing to me is to let the amount of labor force we can handle, dictate how many immigrants we let in. Over-flooding the market drives down wages and breaks unions.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Immigrants march in protest in the U.S and they fly U.S flags.

 

Immigrants march in the UK and they encourage death and burn flags.

 

You guys are lucky, at least most people come to your country and respect it rather than here where they come because it's the easiest place to get into.

[EricMM 0]

Mike, the thing about letting the market dicatate what we need is that we have to mandate that we won't accept the hiring of illegals anymore. If you want someone, you have to have an immigrant come and work for you, for minimum wage.

 

Not an illegal worker who is supposed to leave but will just stay here.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

I was just thinking the other day how silly it is that the people who went apeshit over people carrying Mexican flags at immigrant rallies are probably the same people who will claim that people should have the right to fly the Confederate flag because of "heritage".

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Finally, build a wall to protect the border, and use lethal force if necessary to defend it.

 

Dumbest. If border patrols start shooting at people crossing the border, immigrants aren't going to turn tail and run, they're going to shoot back. I prefer not to have soldiers killed along the border, let alone the humanitarian disaster that would create.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Somewhat related note. remember the little flap about the national anthem sung in spanish? how it should only be in english, and a few people are even outraged, calling it sickening, or whatnot?

There's a funny note on Drudge about how the US actually commissioned a Spanish version many years back (early 1900s), and that there are 4 seperate spanish versions on the state dept's site.

 

No serious issue, I just enjoy laughing at people who get OUTRAGED~! I wonder if the OUTRAGE~ will now be leveled against the state department.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Via Atrios

 

After saying he did not consider the anthem sung in Spanish to have the same value as the anthem sung in English, Mr. Bush said: "I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English. And they ought to learn to sing the anthem in English."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/28/us/28cnd...age&oref=slogin

 

When visiting cities like Chicago, Milwaukee or Philadelphia, in pivotal states, he would drop in at Hispanic festivals and parites, sometimes joining in singing "The Star-Spangled Banner" in Spanish, sometimes partying with a "Viva Bush" mariachi band flown in from Texas.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/014303431...607854?n=283155

[SuperJerk 0]

Finally, build a wall to protect the border, and use lethal force if necessary to defend it.

 

Dumbest. If border patrols start shooting at people crossing the border, immigrants aren't going to turn tail and run, they're going to shoot back. I prefer not to have soldiers killed along the border, let alone the humanitarian disaster that would create.

 

I don't want illegal immigrants shot at, but I also doubt the immigrants would shoot back instead of just running away.

[Perfxion 0]

Uh, gun fire only produces more gun fire, maybe not by the first ones, but by the next wave. And what happens when glocks are shooting at people with AKs? Remember, its cheaper to get an AK than a Colt .45

 

...and I am talking about the drink

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, supposedly, border patrol agents already have been shot at by Mexicans, so this wouldn't be a huge change. The US would actually be the ones fighting back.

[Ripper 0]

You are a idiot.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

And the liberals resort to name calling once again.

[Ripper 0]

Extremist are idiots. I could make a longer post, but it would be pointless as I would be typing more words to say that you are a idiot. Which you are.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

*an idiot

 

P.S. I'm not calling you an idiot, I3K, just correcting a pet peeve.

[SuperJerk 0]

A liberal resorted to name calling once again.

Edited for accuracy.

[SuperJerk 0]

Uh, gun fire only produces more gun fire, maybe not by the first ones, but by the next wave. And what happens when glocks are shooting at people with AKs? Remember, its cheaper to get an AK than a Colt .45

Yes, armed Mexicans crossing the border really stand a chance of winning a gunfight with the American military.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Extremist are idiots. I could make a longer post, but it would be pointless as I would be typing more words to say that you are a idiot. Which you are.

 

Even more name calling.

 

Look, there are two separate issues at work:

 

1) The border is basically completely open right now. It's not just Mexicans coming across. The President likes to give lip service to fighting terrorism, and "learning the lessons of September 11th", but he's failed miserably in regards to this gaping hole in national security. We don't know if the people coming across have diseases or criminal records. There needs to be a system in place to deal with and process anyone coming into the country, regardless of whether they want to work here or not, or how long they want to stay.

 

2) We already have a lot of illegal Hispanics here in this country, and that will have to be dealt with one way or another.

 

I'm all in favor of people coming here to work, and making an honest living. But...they need to go through the system just like everyone else. We have rules for a reason, not just to be a bunch of pricks like the rest of the world makes our nation out to be.

 

It just galls me that some people feel the US should just be an open state where anyone and everyone can come in, and not face any consequences for not following the established laws. Borders and culture make up the identity of America, or any nation...to remove them means you are breaking down what makes a country strong.

[NoCalMike 0]

Mike, the thing about letting the market dicatate what we need is that we have to mandate that we won't accept the hiring of illegals anymore. If you want someone, you have to have an immigrant come and work for you, for minimum wage.

 

Not an illegal worker who is supposed to leave but will just stay here.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. The minimum wage laws must be enforced in order to stop the wages from bottoming out.

[EricMM 0]

It's not just the minimum wage laws, it's the immigration laws.

 

America seems to want a workforce they can bring from Mexico to America, have them do some odious task, and then send them back home with a tiny bit of money.

 

Simply put, this fails in many ways.

 

1) It drives down American earning potential by putting some of America's 'jobs' at Mexico's pay level.

 

2) Many many many of these guest workers will dodge being sent back home. Having a kid here is the best thing they can do for their kid, certainly better than having them back in Mexico.

 

With all that being said, we have to eliminate the employers of illegals, the foremen, the construction companies, the hotel companies, the farm workers. Change their options, from bringing in Mexicans to pay shit to, to lobbying for a proper number of immigrants yearly.

 

One of the issues at hand here is that people are upset illegals come and work here for very little money, thus driving down the pay of all American citizen construction workers, etc. Because if we're willing to pay what the "market" will bear, we have to actually announce that we're paying what the "Global market" will bear, the "American market" not the "United States market" So unless Americans are willing to get paid what a Honduran is willing to get paid, they're going to lose the jobs.

[Ripper 0]

Extremist are idiots. I could make a longer post, but it would be pointless as I would be typing more words to say that you are a idiot. Which you are.

 

Even more name calling.

 

Look, there are two separate issues at work:

 

1) The border is basically completely open right now. It's not just Mexicans coming across. The President likes to give lip service to fighting terrorism, and "learning the lessons of September 11th", but he's failed miserably in regards to this gaping hole in national security. We don't know if the people coming across have diseases or criminal records. There needs to be a system in place to deal with and process anyone coming into the country, regardless of whether they want to work here or not, or how long they want to stay.

 

2) We already have a lot of illegal Hispanics here in this country, and that will have to be dealt with one way or another.

 

I'm all in favor of people coming here to work, and making an honest living. But...they need to go through the system just like everyone else. We have rules for a reason, not just to be a bunch of pricks like the rest of the world makes our nation out to be.

 

It just galls me that some people feel the US should just be an open state where anyone and everyone can come in, and not face any consequences for not following the established laws. Borders and culture make up the identity of America, or any nation...to remove them means you are breaking down what makes a country strong.

 

 

See that. you made a smart point. I don't agree with it, but you made a point that didn't sound stupid.

 

Putting military at the border and shooting all the unarmed men and women trying to cross the border. If you dont see how that suggestion is idiotic, I don't know what to say to you.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

OK, I didn't seriously mean that they should just shoot those people. But, we need to toughen border security (is there anyone who doesn't agree on that point?), and armed security is the only practical solution at this point.

[EricMM 0]

Is anyone else watching the CSPAN presentation of the Minute men speaking in DC today?

 

Fucking Slapdicks.

[snuffbox 0]

Is anyone else watching the CSPAN presentation of the Minute men speaking in DC today?

 

Fucking Slapdicks.

 

Highly entertaining folk.

[NoCalMike 0]

It's not just the minimum wage laws, it's the immigration laws.

 

America seems to want a workforce they can bring from Mexico to America, have them do some odious task, and then send them back home with a tiny bit of money.

 

Simply put, this fails in many ways.

 

1) It drives down American earning potential by putting some of America's 'jobs' at Mexico's pay level.

 

2) Many many many of these guest workers will dodge being sent back home. Having a kid here is the best thing they can do for their kid, certainly better than having them back in Mexico.

 

With all that being said, we have to eliminate the employers of illegals, the foremen, the construction companies, the hotel companies, the farm workers. Change their options, from bringing in Mexicans to pay shit to, to lobbying for a proper number of immigrants yearly.

 

One of the issues at hand here is that people are upset illegals come and work here for very little money, thus driving down the pay of all American citizen construction workers, etc. Because if we're willing to pay what the "market" will bear, we have to actually announce that we're paying what the "Global market" will bear, the "American market" not the "United States market" So unless Americans are willing to get paid what a Honduran is willing to get paid, they're going to lose the jobs.

 

I agree.

 

It seems big business wants it both ways, ship out our manufacturing jobs to other countries that have cheap labor, and no laws protecting the worker, and then import illegal aliens to do the service jobs.

 

Not to mention with prisons now being privately owned(which is fucking nonsense) there is very high incentive to keep the prisons full of workers that can be sent out to do work and not get paid a dime for it while the prison exec bears the fruit. DRUG LAWS anyone?