2006 NBA Finals

[Matt Young 0]

Me, with terrible hair, immediately after the game:

 

[The Robfather 0]

Two things happened in this series:

The Mavs choked

The refs gave Wade all the calls

 

That Game 5 will always leave a bad taste in my mouth, but the Mavs had a chance in Game 3 to put this series away and didn't.

 

At least I can put this crap out of my mind and focus on other things now.

[iggymcfly 0]

I'm just curious but iggy-

 

how much did you lose betting on the Mavs?

 

$1000 on the series plus $250 on Game 6 plus $185 on the over on Dirk's points + assists. For the NBA/NHL playoffs as a whole though, I ended up up $100, due mainly to betting on Dallas in the WCF and Miami in the ECF.

[Special K 0]

Two things happened in this series:

The Mavs choked

The refs gave Wade all the calls

 

That Game 5 will always leave a bad taste in my mouth, but the Mavs had a chance in Game 3 to put this series away and didn't.

 

At least I can put this crap out of my mind and focus on other things now.

 

I hear that. I'm not a huge fan of any NBA team in particular. The only B-ball team ai have any particular love for is Gonzaga.

 

That said, Comparing Wade to Jordan is a bit premature, he is incredible, no doubt, but he's king of the free throws now.

 

I don't like Mourning, but fuck he was incredible on D this game. It's hard not to like a guy when he plays with that much hustle. The Heat wouldn't have won game 6 w/o him. He was playing crazy.

 

I'm glad the Glove got a ring. But it's with a bit of regret. The guy is so clearly terrible recently, and used to be so incredibly great.

 

It's like Malone, is it a love of the game that they play 3rd fiddle for a championship, or is it ego? Tough to tell.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Who would you rather have on your team, Kevin Garnett or Vince Carter/Jefferson?

 

No way Jersey trades both of them, and no way would Minnesota be stupid enough to ask for both of them. Like I said they wouldn't be able to trade off Both of them for KG because cap's salary don't match up.

 

I can see Minnesota looking to get Kristic in return if they want to trade Jefferson but not Carter. Losing Carter and getting KG in return would be fine. Having Jefferson as your leading scorer would be fine. He was their best scorer during the K-Mart/Jefferson/Kidd trio.

 

Still, a team with KG/Kristic/Jefferson/Kidd would be a force to reckon with in the East.

 

Honestly though I think it's time to get rid of Lawerence Frank. He's a good young coach and has a bright future, but I can't see the Nets taking the East with him as coach.

 

Minnesota's going to want both RJ and Kristic, not VC. That's the point. Carter/KG/Kidd is good enough to win the division, but I don't think Kidd will have enough to make a deep push in the East especially if Miami's well rested and ready to defend that title.

 

My guess is you haven't heard the recent rumors of Minnesota willing to take Carter + fillers.

[naiwf 0]

What you're willing to take, and what you want are two different things. They're going to want RJ & Kristic, which is exactly what I said. If they can't get better than Carter and fillers for KG, they deserve to suck for the next decade.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I'm glad the Glove got a ring. But it's with a bit of regret. The guy is so clearly terrible recently, and used to be so incredibly great.

 

It's like Malone, is it a love of the game that they play 3rd fiddle for a championship, or is it ego? Tough to tell.

 

Considering Payton left the team he was the face of just to get a championship elsewhere in three other different locations, I'd probably say the second one.

 

Not to mention the Sonics had a great year I think a year or two ago as well, so maybe he should have stuck it out, then maybe you could say it was a love of the game. I have little respect for guys like Mourning, Payton, and Shaq, who's going to be harping on the "Wade and Riley is better than Kobe and Phil" shit for a long time now, even though the first is probably not true yet and the second is very questionable. Maybe even worse are the fans here, who all jumped on the bandwagon the second Shaq came into town, and will probably jump right off the second the team comes apart, which is inevitable. The team was built with a "win now, worry later" mentality with the shipping off of a big part of their `03 playoff run, and replaced with aging veterans who don't have much time left in them. Whether this actually creates a true fanbase remains to be seen, but the Marlins won two championships in the last decade, and a lot of people stopped caring about them. This makes me feel a lot sorrier for Philly, Cleveland, and other sports fans from cities who haven't won a championship in practically their whole life.

 

But I've got all the love in the world for Wade and Haslem, who grew up here and was extremely emotional following the game, and deserved it.

[naiwf 0]

I just don't get the idea that you shouldn't mortgage the "future" for a title now. Miami won a championship. Who cares that their window may only have another year left in it? They WON a championship. The Marlins have TWO, which is as many as any team I root for have won in the time I've been alive.

 

I have never seen the Knicks win one, it took the Rangers 54 years to get one, the Mets are going on year # 20, and even though the Giants have won a couple in my lifetime, they too are looking at 15+ seasons without one. I'd gladly mortgage prospects to see ANY of my teams win a championship as an adult. I'd give up the entire Ewing era of playoff runs for ONE title, and I'm sure most fans would say the same. No one will remember that Miami gave up some nice guys when they can think back to being the 2005-2006 NBA Champions.

[Special K 0]

I'd probably say the second one.

 

Not to mention the Sonics had a great year I think a year or two ago as well, so maybe he should have stuck it out, then maybe you could say it was a love of the game

 

Hey! All valid points! : (

 

Yeah Payton is sorta a douche I couldn't believe that play when he was jawing and got a ball bounced off his BUTT.

[Guest NYankees]

Me, with terrible hair, immediately after the game:

 

 

 

Sorry it's off topic but Matt Young looks like the midget kid with a beard from the TV show where the two midgets who have a big farm and 2 normal sized kids and one midget kid.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I just don't get the idea that you shouldn't mortgage the "future" for a title now. Miami won a championship. Who cares that their window may only have another year left in it? They WON a championship. The Marlins have TWO, which is as many as any team I root for have won in the time I've been alive.

 

I have never seen the Knicks win one, it took the Rangers 54 years to get one, the Mets are going on year # 20, and even though the Giants have won a couple in my lifetime, they too are looking at 15+ seasons without one. I'd gladly mortgage prospects to see ANY of my teams win a championship as an adult. I'd give up the entire Ewing era of playoff runs for ONE title, and I'm sure most fans would say the same. No one will remember that Miami gave up some nice guys when they can think back to being the 2005-2006 NBA Champions.

 

Because one year is quickly forgotten, but when you have a good young team (for example, like the Suns or Mavericks) then you have something to look forward to in the following years, and possibly build a dynasty.

[naiwf 0]

I just don't get the idea that you shouldn't mortgage the "future" for a title now. Miami won a championship. Who cares that their window may only have another year left in it? They WON a championship. The Marlins have TWO, which is as many as any team I root for have won in the time I've been alive.

 

I have never seen the Knicks win one, it took the Rangers 54 years to get one, the Mets are going on year # 20, and even though the Giants have won a couple in my lifetime, they too are looking at 15+ seasons without one. I'd gladly mortgage prospects to see ANY of my teams win a championship as an adult. I'd give up the entire Ewing era of playoff runs for ONE title, and I'm sure most fans would say the same. No one will remember that Miami gave up some nice guys when they can think back to being the 2005-2006 NBA Champions.

 

Because one year is quickly forgotten, but when you have a good young team (for example, like the Suns or Mavericks) then you have something to look forward to in the following years, and possibly build a dynasty.

 

Since 1986, how many dynasties have there been in all 4 major sports? The Jordan Bulls thanks to Portland picking Sam Bowie, the Triplets Cowboys because of idiocy in Minnesota, the recent Pats thanks to a flukish injury to Bledsoe and the Yankees of '96-'00 are the only ones I can think of.

 

You're much more likely to get titles won by making bold moves and then rebuilding, than hoping a dynasty falls into your lap and holding onto pieces that MAY develop into championship parts. If the Mavs or Suns don't win any titles in the next 5 years, do you think their fans will give a shit that they had a great nucleus at one time? Phoenix has 2 years left with Nash, Dallas has longer but I wouldn't be shocked if neither team won a title in the near future. Miami may never get back to the Finals with Wade, but it's better to have a ring in your pocket than the potential to win 4 or 5 and never get there.

[Ripper 0]

You know, I am a little late and missed the chance to reply, but alot of people in this thread are showing the difference between being a fan and a good coach.

 

The final play was a screen and roll with Dirk. Terry is a better ball handler against a double(which was surely coming). You don't give the ball to a 7 foot tall guy to dribble against two defenders, you give it to a ball handler. They ran a screen and roll, kinda. Dirk just kinda stopped moving and started dropping bombs on people to get Terry open. But if they went under the screen, Dirk would have rolled to the three point line and taken the shot with only one guy in his face. But they didn't go under the screen, they tried to go through it, which led to the Dirk bomb dropping. Terry got a good look, and the jersey pull was pretty much non important (if you ignore the Wade "foul" that won the game before).

 

Avery Johnson was actually the best coach of this series. Great adjustments, did a good job of limiting Shaq, Wade was just too good and got to the line too much. And he sent everyone at the guy and noone had any luck in stopping him. I saw a great coaching job out of the guy.

[naiwf 0]

Avery Johnson was actually the best coach of this series. Great adjustments, did a good job of limiting Shaq, Wade was just too good and got to the line too much. And he sent everyone at the guy and noone had any luck in stopping him. I saw a great coaching job out of the guy.

 

How can a guy who drew up two "game/season on the line" plays for anyone BUT Dirk be a great coach? And that doesn't even touch on his role in Time Out Gate or the fact that he didn't call plays for Dirk in the second half of Game 6. Avery did a horrible job with making adjustments on the OFFENSIVE side of the ball throughout the series, as Miami routinely stretched the lead while going small which should have left Dirk to drop layup after layup on Miami's 'D'. He also didn't have Dallas play zone down the stretch of Game 5 when Wade wasn't scoring on the zone. Everyone who watched the series thought Avery was not only outcoached but did a horrible job after winning COTY. I honestly don't see how you could praise him in anyway.

[Ripper 0]

...okay...let me simplify the last post.

 

The final play WAS FOR DIRK.

 

If you want to call the Lob boneheaded, go right ahead, but you are one great play by Dwayne Wade from calling it a incredibly great play by the Mavs.

 

Dallas stopped playing Zone because they were giving up layups in the Zone. So Wade wasn't scoring. The rest of the Heat were getting layups because of his passing ability and the inability of bigs to rotate and the Wade was still penetrating against the double team/zone where ever he attacked. A contest Wade shot is better than a wide open layup for anyone else.

 

What did work was the sporatic doubling of Wade but Riley called a TO and they adjusted to it.

 

Miami small lineup also came with the quick double which is why there were no Dirk Layups. They didn't play him one on one the way the Suns and the SPurs did thus he couldn't dominate the same.

 

Most people downing Avery's coaching in this series honestly haven't brought up anything to make me think otherwise.

 

Riley didn't do a thing but give the ball to wade and let him go....amazing coaching.

[iggymcfly 0]

There wasn't enough time on the clock to run a screen and roll. If Dirk had rolled back to the three-point line on that play and Terry had passed him the ball, the clock would have run out before they got a shot off. They had time for a screen and a shot period, and Avery thinking that Terry would have an easier time getting it up court, and that the big guy would set a better screen, ran the play that he did.

 

I'm just saying that Dirk's a good enough shooter in the clutch that instead of running a slightly better screen play designed for Terry, (yes, that's who it was designed for), he should have just given Dirk the ball and let him take it down court and shoot. If the defender was waiting at the top of the key, Dirk could have just pulled up 5 feet short, and he probably would have buried the shot, whereas Terry had already missed 15 of his last 19, and certainly wasn't going to hit a pressure three after fighting his way from the backcourt all the way to the far wing.

[Guest Felonies!]

Since 1986, how many dynasties have there been in all 4 major sports? The Jordan Bulls thanks to Portland picking Sam Bowie, the Triplets Cowboys because of idiocy in Minnesota, the recent Pats thanks to a flukish injury to Bledsoe and the Yankees of '96-'00 are the only ones I can think of.

Oh, come on, you make it sound like all these teams just fall ass-backwards into multiple and consecutive championships. I'm this board's most prominent Patriots-hater, but even I have to acknowledge that the Patriots organization worked hard to assemble a team that could win back-to-back Super Bowls under a pesky salary cap system.

[iggymcfly 0]

Also, on the dynasty subject, basketball's different than other sports. Before this year, the Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Spurs, and Rockets were the only teams to win titles since 1987.

[naiwf 0]

Since 1986, how many dynasties have there been in all 4 major sports? The Jordan Bulls thanks to Portland picking Sam Bowie, the Triplets Cowboys because of idiocy in Minnesota, the recent Pats thanks to a flukish injury to Bledsoe and the Yankees of '96-'00 are the only ones I can think of.

Oh, come on, you make it sound like all these teams just fall ass-backwards into multiple and consecutive championships. I'm this board's most prominent Patriots-hater, but even I have to acknowledge that the Patriots organization worked hard to assemble a team that could win back-to-back Super Bowls under a pesky salary cap system.

 

No, what I'm saying is that almost every dynasty has some element of blind luck involved. I like the Pats, but they wouldn't have won 3 titles with Bledsoe behind the helm. He has a rocket for an arm, and a brain the size of a pea in pressure situations. They deserve all the credit in the world for making it work, but had Drew slid, or stepped out of bounds instead of having his insides mashed into bits by the Jets I don't think the Pats would be the Pats. The Cowboys fleeced the Vikings, and if Portland drafts Jordan who knows what happens, but the Bowie Bulls likely wouldn't have won anything except another shot at getting the # 1 pick in the draft lottery annually. The Yankees just got fortunate that the one time they kept the farm system intact it just so happened to be the one time they had all kinds of future HOF'ers and borderline HOF'ers around instead of overhyped prospects who never amount(ed) to anything.

 

Go for the title when you have a chance is the basic message unless you've already had some semblance of divine intervention which will allow you to have a dynastic run.

[Guest Felonies!]

Also, on the dynasty subject, basketball's different than other sports. Before this year, the Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Spurs, and Rockets were the only teams to win titles since 1987.

Plus the Celtics and Seventy-Sixers if you go back to 1980, and the '83 Sixers were just a one-shot deal.

[Ripper 0]

There wasn't enough time on the clock to run a screen and roll. If Dirk had rolled back to the three-point line on that play and Terry had passed him the ball, the clock would have run out before they got a shot off. They had time for a screen and a shot period, and Avery thinking that Terry would have an easier time getting it up court, and that the big guy would set a better screen, ran the play that he did.

 

I'm just saying that Dirk's a good enough shooter in the clutch that instead of running a slightly better screen play designed for Terry, (yes, that's who it was designed for), he should have just given Dirk the ball and let him take it down court and shoot. If the defender was waiting at the top of the key, Dirk could have just pulled up 5 feet short, and he probably would have buried the shot, whereas Terry had already missed 15 of his last 19, and certainly wasn't going to hit a pressure three after fighting his way from the backcourt all the way to the far wing.

 

Did you not notice Dirk waiting for the ball after the first screen...then the second one. Terry dribbled away alot of seconds before putting that shot up.

 

There were 10.3 seconds left. How is that not enough time for a play. 10 freakin seconds? Terry dribbled the ball all the way down to like 5 seconds when he shot. That play was not for him at all.

[Brett Favre 0]

Terry got a good look though, so i'm not too pissed at him. It wasn't like Dirk was bustin ass either. Stackhouse and Daniels kept Dallas in the game; I was a little disappointed in Dirk. That was a nice ass block by Stackhouse too.

 

Dallas really screwed this up by not closing out Game 3. Atleast J-Dub got a ring; couldn't care less for the rest of the team.

[Guest]

Zo earned his ring with his defense. The energy he brought was great. I hate the Glove.

 

That's how I feel about people deserving it or not.

[iggymcfly 0]

Did you not notice Dirk waiting for the ball after the first screen...then the second one. Terry dribbled away alot of seconds before putting that shot up.

 

There were 10.3 seconds left. How is that not enough time for a play. 10 freakin seconds? Terry dribbled the ball all the way down to like 5 seconds when he shot. That play was not for him at all.

 

Bah, maybe you're right. I was too busy banging my head against the floor screaming "Why!?!" to notice the details. Whoever's fault it was, I was really pissed that Dirk didn't take the final shot. I was pretty sure that I remembered there being under 9 seconds left after the traveling call though, and if that's the case, it was asking a lot to think that Terry could dribble down court come off a screen, and still find Dirk at the three point line before time ran out. Especially when he was going to the far side of the court.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Since 1986, how many dynasties have there been in all 4 major sports? The Jordan Bulls thanks to Portland picking Sam Bowie, the Triplets Cowboys because of idiocy in Minnesota, the recent Pats thanks to a flukish injury to Bledsoe and the Yankees of '96-'00 are the only ones I can think of.

Oh, come on, you make it sound like all these teams just fall ass-backwards into multiple and consecutive championships. I'm this board's most prominent Patriots-hater, but even I have to acknowledge that the Patriots organization worked hard to assemble a team that could win back-to-back Super Bowls under a pesky salary cap system.

 

Not just that, but this is the more important part of my point: If you build a team to have only one great season and they fall apart the rest of the way, especially for a team that doesn't have an established fanbase like the Heat, this hurts the franchise in the long run especially with a city as fickle as Miami. I already cited the Marlins as an example for doing this not just once, but twice. Other teams in other cities and other sports have done this many times as well.

 

The Dolphins for example, are 2-2 in Super Bowls having won two in a row in the late 70's, and they haven't been back since 1984 (technically January of 85, but we all know that's not how we count seasons in football). But they had a great coach and a great team that consistently won games and they always were a threat and a contender to win for a long time because they had a great QB, but an unfortunate situation at running back that ultimately never led Marino to that elusive SB ring. Regardless of that, the franchise is still going strong because they win consistently, noone outside of the Bronx expects to win every year, but if you can have a team that had a strong run and have hope for next year, that keeps the fans coming.

 

Look at the Pistons for example. They could have easily traded away part of their nucleus a couple years ago for a quick and easy shot at the title. They kept their players there, developed into a strong unit with great chemistry, and most were young or in their prime. They'll always be a threat provided that they change out the old parts and keep the youth flowing into their system.

 

But, then again, maybe I'm just old school and I hate the whole notion of players flying around from team to team, especially looking for championships when they made a name for themselves with another organization. Does anyone feel right with Ray Bourque winning with the Avs, Payton winning with the Heat, etc. etc... I certainly don't.

[naiwf 0]

Not just that, but this is the more important part of my point: If you build a team to have only one great season and they fall apart the rest of the way, especially for a team that doesn't have an established fanbase like the Heat, this hurts the franchise in the long run especially with a city as fickle as Miami. I already cited the Marlins as an example for doing this not just once, but twice. Other teams in other cities and other sports have done this many times as well.

 

The Dolphins for example, are 2-2 in Super Bowls having won two in a row in the late 70's, and they haven't been back since 1984 (technically January of 85, but we all know that's not how we count seasons in football). But they had a great coach and a great team that consistently won games and they always were a threat and a contender to win for a long time because they had a great QB, but an unfortunate situation at running back that ultimately never led Marino to that elusive SB ring. Regardless of that, the franchise is still going strong because they win consistently, noone outside of the Bronx expects to win every year, but if you can have a team that had a strong run and have hope for next year, that keeps the fans coming.

 

Look at the Pistons for example. They could have easily traded away part of their nucleus a couple years ago for a quick and easy shot at the title. They kept their players there, developed into a strong unit with great chemistry, and most were young or in their prime. They'll always be a threat provided that they change out the old parts and keep the youth flowing into their system.

 

But, then again, maybe I'm just old school and I hate the whole notion of players flying around from team to team, especially looking for championships when they made a name for themselves with another organization. Does anyone feel right with Ray Bourque winning with the Avs, Payton winning with the Heat, etc. etc... I certainly don't.

 

I think we're probably arguing two separate issues. For instance, I'd be upset if the Mets gave up Milledge, Wright, Pelfrey or Reyes because they have enough to compete for a title this year as well as next season as is. However, if giving up Pelfrey or Milledge got us someone like Barry Zito for instance and that put us over the top, I'd take the title now instead of the possibility of having an ace in a few seasons. However, if you're gonna start giving away Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano that's just stupid. Knowing how fickle sports can be, I think sometimes you have to take a shot at the brass ring when it's available because you may never get another one no matter how many A+ prospects you have or how much dynasty potential there could be with a bit of patience. Just look at how many great players have come up through the Oakland A's organization, and they're no closer to winning one now than any other team outside of New York, Chicago, St. Louis or Boston. All I have to do is reflect back to the highly touted Generation K and see how Pulsipher, Wilson and Izzy did a whole lot of nothing for us, but we could have had some major league ready talent if we'd parted with them when we had a chance.

 

I do agree with the notion that title hunters should be shot though. There was no reason for someone like Karl Malone to go try and scavenge a title in LA, or GP to follow Shaq around for the last couple of seasons in hopes of getting a ring.

[Black Lushus 0]

it feels sorta cheap when players do that...especially a guy like Payton, who, in my mind, probably didn't even really need to be there in order for the Heat to win...my thoughts on him were summed up perfectly when he didn't receive a pass because he was too busy goofing off with the ref.

[Just John 0]

Yeah, I don't know how even the players themselves can't think of getting a ring by whoring themselves off to an already successful team as just a little cheap. I always root against players like that. I have a ton of respect for guys like Reggie Miller who may not get a title, but at least they retire with dignity in an organization that cares about them.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Reggie Miller retired in the best possible way, by letting the team actually know ahead of time that it was going to be his last season.

 

Being a Packer fan, I hate seeing that not happen more often. In fact, I don't quite recall when the last time is that someone HAS done that.

[bob_barron 0]

Yeah, I don't know how even the players themselves can't think of getting a ring by whoring themselves off to an already successful team as just a little cheap. I always root against players like that. I have a ton of respect for guys like Reggie Miller who may not get a title, but at least they retire with dignity in an organization that cares about them.

 

If they want to win a title, then I see no problem with signing as a free agent to a contending team and trying to be a part of that. In the end, it's all about winning, so why not try to go out with a title?