TWiB 9/11 - 9/17

[Bored 0]

Magic Numbers

 

Mets: 4

Yankees: 11

A's: 15

Cardinals: 16

Tigers: 18

Dodgers: 19

 

ESPN/Fox Games to Poison Our Youth

 

WEDNESDAY

A's (Dan Haren) at Twins (Francisco Liriano), 1:00 PM/10:00 AM, ESPN

Rangers (Kevin Millwood) at Tigers (Justin Verlander), 7:00/4:00 PM, ESPN

 

THURSDAY

Phillies (Jamie Moyer) at Braves (Chuck James), 7:30/4:30 PM, ESPN2

 

FRIDAY

Red Sox at Yankees, 7:00/4:00 PM, ESPN

 

SATURDAY

Red Sox at Yankees, 1:00 PM EST, Fox

Phillies at Astros, 1:00 PM EST/Noon CST, Fox

 

White Sox at A's, 3:00 PM CST/1:00 PM PST, Fox

 

SUNDAY

Red Sox at Yankees, 8:00/5:00 PM, ESPN

[Guest Princess Leena]

I thought Assholes/Assholes was finished for the regular season. Fuck.

[KingPK 0]

Last series this year, thank God. That Sunday night game won't end until 2AM.

 

The only thing I care about this week is Ortiz breaking the club HR record (he's three away, I believe), Ortiz helping my fantasy team, and said fantasy team moving on to the championship.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Ugh. 2:1 says my local Fox affiliates both decide to play the Yankees/Red Sox game.

[Guest NYankees]

Bobby Crosby for MVP? What about Bubba Crosby?

[devo 0]

Goin' to Pittsburgh this weekend to see the Mets play the Pirates on both Saturday and Sunday. With any luck, one of those days will be Pedro's return start.

 

Really hope Cincy can get their shit together and take care of the Padres. Besides a series with the Marlins later this month, they don't have any more series with Wild Card contenders.

[CanadianChris 0]

Bobby Crosby for MVP? What about Bubba Crosby?

I'd give it to David Crosby before Bubba Crosby.

[devo 0]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790

 

Never pinned Ortiz as the selfish, gloating type. Ah well, screw 'im.

[Brett Favre 0]

That came out of left field. He did fail to mention that he has Ramirez batting right behind him, who is a better hitter than anybody on the whole Yankee team.

[devo 0]

Or the whole Red Sox team, for that matter.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

While I don't really like that Ortiz is taking this to the media, he's absolutely right. Manny and Papi have carried a really poor Red Sox team this year. The fact that they are going to wind up just outside of the playoffs is a weak argument to vote against him (any many writers will use that excuse).*

 

*I'd still vote for Hafner, or maybe Jeter, but Ortiz is a top candidate.

[vivalaultra 0]

I can see his point, but that does sound uncharacteristic of David "Big heart. Big effort. I guess that's why they call me...Big Papi" Ortiz.

 

In other news, tonite begins another criticl series (it seems like every series these days is a critical series) for my Houston Astros, as they do battle with the St. Louis Cardinals. Tonite's pitching matchup is Pettitte vs. Carpenter, so it should be good. Pettitte's won both of his starts against the Cards this year, both against Carpenter, although Carpenter only got the loss in one of them. The way Andy's been throwing the last couple months, he should be fine, but the offense might not be.

[Brett Favre 0]

Well sure, now they're a poor team, but before the collapse, they were a pretty good team for most of the year.

 

I agree, he's a good candidate for the award, but if he doesn't win, it's not because they tried to screw him over. Each player has advantages over others. Him being a DH hurts him for one.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Well sure, now they're a poor team, but before the collapse, they were a pretty good team for most of the year.

 

But they really weren't that good of a team. The offense always looks good because Manny and Ortiz produce a ton of runs, but that doesn't mean they have much 1-9. There is no one in that lineup with even 15 HR this year. Coco has been batting leadoff, and he's had an OBP under .300 for most of the year.

 

The team was outperforming their true talent level for most of the yearbecause Papelbon was lights out in relief and Papi was unreal in close and late situations. They were able to outperform their Pythagorean record by a ton the first half of the year. But once the team started succumbing to injuries, it really magnified how bad things had gotten.

 

All that being said, why should anyone discount Papi's MVP candidacy because the rest of the team failed? How much of this is really in his hands?

[devo 0]

Those who vote against top candidates whose teams don't make the playoffs will invariably state that the MVP is for the most valuable player of the year; how valuable can he be if his team didn't even make it to the postseason?

 

It's flawed logic, but no one should expect uniform brilliance from those who make the decisions regarding these sort of things.

[Brett Favre 0]

Because being valuable to a losing team makes no sense.

 

The Red Sox do have a very good defensive team though, and its not like Lowell, Youkilis, Pena/Nixon, and Loretta are horrible hitters. They are all above average hitters. You make it sound like you had the Kansas City Royals around him. You traded a bit of offense for defense. Doesn't make your team worse.

[Guest NYankees]

Big Fat Slugs who are so horrible in the field that they hurt their team defensively and are forced to sit on the bench all game are not the Most Valuable Player. Jeter is going to hit 340 this year with 200 hits, 100 runs and 100 rbi's all from the two slot in the order. Lets not forget that he is on the field half the game playing defense in the heat and busting his ass. While that Big Fat Slug is sitting on his fat ass, cooling off and waiting for the next time to get up to hit.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Big Fat Slugs who are so horrible in the field that they hurt their team defensively and are forced to sit on the bench all game are not the Most Valuable Player. Jeter is going to hit 340 this year with 200 hits, 100 runs and 100 rbi's all from the two slot in the order. Lets not forget that he is on the field half the game playing defense in the heat and busting his ass. While that Big Fat Slug is sitting on his fat ass, cooling off and waiting for the next time to get up to hit.

 

Couple of points about your post:

 

1. Ortiz is not horrible in the field. He's mediocre. He can't play the position full time because of bad knee problems he acquired playing on the turf in Minnesota. Sure it's a knock against him that he DH's, but it's not because he's completely inadequate.

 

2. Jeter is having a great year, and his defense should count as a plus for him. However, is his defense enough to bridge the gap in offense to Travis Hafner? If defense is really that important, should Joe Mauer be given even more credit?

 

3. Jeter will score 100 runs because he has Abreu, A-Rod and Giambi hitting behind him. And even though he hits in the two hole, he has better OBP guys in front of him than someone like David Ortiz does. Once again, those are team dependent stats, and have little reflection on a player's true value.

 

Jeter is having a fantastic year, and is an MVP candidate. But there are arguments to be made for other players. Quit being such a homer.

[strummer 0]

Because being valuable to a losing team makes no sense.

 

Why is it Ortiz's fault that the rest of the team hasn't played up to expectations? You are penalizing Ortiz for the subpar play of his teammates. How is that fair?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Because being valuable to a losing team makes no sense.

 

Why is it Ortiz's fault that the rest of the team hasn't played up to expectations? You are penalizing Ortiz for the subpar play of his teammates. How is that fair?

 

What really doesn't make any sense is that people are using team performance to decide an individual award. So if Derek Jeter had the exact same year, but did it with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays instead of the Yankees, it's not quite as good? Why can players only be valuable if they are on playoff teams?

[Vern Gagne 0]

This makes me embarassed to be a Twins fan.

 

Shackelford (St. Paul, MN): 2 Part Question. Why do you hate the Twins so much and why are you such a douchebag?

 

Gary Gillette: (4:14 PM ET ) Thanks, both are very good questions. Well to answer the first, something many people don't know about me is that I grew up in Chicago and have been a White Sox fan ever since. This is why I will never give the Twins any credit and continue to pick them to fail. Secondly, I have been a douchbag my entire life, it's something the people around me have gotten used to and I've also accepted the fact that I'm a total ass hole, unable to change my ways. Also, I'm extrememly gay. Thanks!

 

You see Gary Gillete thought the Tigers would beat the Twins this weekend, and still doesn't think they'll win the Central. So that means he hates the Twins.

[naiwf 0]

Johan Santana should win the MVP easily. Remove him from the Twinkies and they're about 25 games off the pace. Mauer and Jeter don't have that same level of importance, and the BoSox collapse eliminates Big Papi from contention too. The only reason not to give it to Santana is that he doesn't play every day.

[Brett Favre 0]

The most valuable player in the league should definitely be on a good team. Think about it. He's the most valuable to a medicore team? How does that make him the best person to make most valuable, if his value isn't good enough to make them a good team. Yes, I know, everyone sucks ass around him, but it comes with the territory. That's why it's always been rare to see a losing team field a most valuable player. He's he most valuable to his team? Yes. Is he the most valuable player in the league? No, because his value didn't get them in the playoffs.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The most valuable player in the league should definitely be on a good team. Think about it. He's the most valuable to a medicore team? How does that make him the best person to make most valuable, if his value isn't good enough to make them a good team. Yes, I know, everyone sucks ass around him, but it comes with the territory. That's why it's always been rare to see a losing team field a most valuable player. He's he most valuable to his team? Yes. Is he the most valuable player in the league? No, because his value didn't get them in the playoffs.

 

That is so asinine. I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall.

 

Travis Hafner and Derek Jeter have both been worth about 8 wins above a replacement player. Take Jeter off the Yankees and they probably still make the playoffs. Take Hafner off the Indians and they are in Royals territory. Why is Jeter more valuable? The goal is to create runs for your team, and Hafner has done that just as well, if not better than Jeter (even when accounting for defense).

 

Why not just call it the Most Valuable Team award if you are giving it the best player on the best team?

[Guest NYankees]

Players on bad teams shouldn't be rewarded with the MVP. How valuable can you be to your team when your team is 20 games below 500 and 40 games out of the race. Your team will still suck without you. Why cant baseball solve this situation? They should promote a Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth Award given to the Leagues best Hitter. Make the title have some importance. Give the MVP to the most VALUABLE player not the best hitter and give the Cy Young to the best pitcher.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Players on bad teams shouldn't be rewarded with the MVP. How valuable can you be to your team when your team is 20 games below 500 and 40 games out of the race. Your team will still suck without you.

 

So is Travis Hafner supposed to stand in the bullpen and use voodoo magic to make the relief pitchers not suck? So the Indians had a bad year. It would have been much, much worse if they didn't have the best hitter in the game on their team.

 

You're acting like Derek Jeter willed his team to the playoffs on the strength of his awesome year. Please. The Yankees still would have made the playoffs without him. By your logic, how valuable can a player be when the team could still win a pennant without you?

[randomguy 0]

Yeah, most valuable really means "how many extra wins is this guy worth?" Playing every day doesn't factor into it, nor does being a DH, at least directly.

 

Now for the DH you have a guy that does not play the field, which is less valuable than a guy that plays the field well. You have less flexibility. If Ortiz played an awesome SS he would clearly be more valuable. Being a DH doesn't mean you are automatically out of contention, but it means you have to be well ahead of all other batters. Imagine if Hafner went to the Sox or Ortiz went to the Tribe - not a lot of net gain there since both guys DH. If one of them could play the field they would be more valuable. Being a DH-only means if someone is a bit banged up instead of playing DH they have to sit.

 

Similarly with a pitcher, not playing every day does not make you less valuable by itself, but it means on days you do play you need to have a huge impact. How much better is Santana vs. a replacement player compared to say Ortiz or Jeter vs. a replacement player?

 

I would go for Mauer. Mauer does a great offensive job at catcher, and his numbers are far superior to other catchers. Hafner has slightly better numbers than Ortiz and appears to have the best combination of OPS, OBP, RBI, etc.

 

There are different ways to define valuable. Most valuable vs. average replacement player? Mauer by far I would guess. Put him on a team like the Yankees and he would have numbers as good or better than Jeter, and be a catcher. Most valuable contributor relative to overall team? Hafner probably.

 

I'm thinking of "how good is this guy compared to the next best player on his team?" Ortiz is only slightly better than Manny, and Jeter has a lot of company on the Yankees. Hafner doesn't have a lot of great company on the Tribe.

[naiwf 0]

Yeah, most valuable really means "how many extra wins is this guy worth?" Playing every day doesn't factor into it, nor does being a DH, at least directly.

 

Now for the DH you have a guy that does not play the field, which is less valuable than a guy that plays the field well. You have less flexibility. If Ortiz played an awesome SS he would clearly be more valuable. Being a DH doesn't mean you are automatically out of contention, but it means you have to be well ahead of all other batters. Imagine if Hafner went to the Sox or Ortiz went to the Tribe - not a lot of net gain there since both guys DH. If one of them could play the field they would be more valuable. Being a DH-only means if someone is a bit banged up instead of playing DH they have to sit.

 

Similarly with a pitcher, not playing every day does not make you less valuable by itself, but it means on days you do play you need to have a huge impact. How much better is Santana vs. a replacement player compared to say Ortiz or Jeter vs. a replacement player?

 

I would go for Mauer. Mauer does a great offensive job at catcher, and his numbers are far superior to other catchers. Hafner has slightly better numbers than Ortiz and appears to have the best combination of OPS, OBP, RBI, etc.

 

There are different ways to define valuable. Most valuable vs. average replacement player? Mauer by far I would guess. Put him on a team like the Yankees and he would have numbers as good or better than Jeter, and be a catcher. Most valuable contributor relative to overall team? Hafner probably.

 

I'm thinking of "how good is this guy compared to the next best player on his team?" Ortiz is only slightly better than Manny, and Jeter has a lot of company on the Yankees. Hafner doesn't have a lot of great company on the Tribe.

 

The Twins are + 21 when Santana pitches (26-5 overall, 21-1 in his last 22 starts) and + 3 (57-54) when he doesn't. Considering he's pitched about 1/4 of their games and is basically THE reason they're in contention, I don't see how anyone is more valuable to his team's success.

[Annabelle 0]

santana is the mvp of the league. when he pitches, its a given that the twins will win.

[KingPK 0]

I'd say Santana for MVP as well, but there might be a situation like Pedro faced in 1999 where some voters will flat out refuse to vote a pitcher as MVP. Plus, Jeter's the big name, so writers will come up with as many excuses as they can to vote him over Santana or Hafner.

 

IMO, Ortiz has slipped a little behind those guys over the past month with his absence and mini-slump beforehand.