Not Another Teen Shooting

[SuperJerk 0]

Chief: Teen gunman set out to kill many

Story Highlights

• Gunman drove to mall to kill 'large number of people' police chief says

• Off-duty cop who confronted shooter saved many lives, chief says

• Witnesses: Officers treated everyone like suspects

• No motive has been determined, police said

 

 

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (AP) -- A trench coat-clad teenager who opened fire on shoppers at a mall had one thing in mind: "to kill a large number of people."

 

And he likely would have killed more than five had an off-duty officer not confronted him, Salt Lake City's police chief said Tuesday.

 

"There is no question that [the officer's]quick action saved the lives of numerous other people," Chief Chris Burbank said.

 

Burbank identified the gunman as Sulejmen Talovic, an 18-year-old who lives with his mother in Salt Lake City, and said he had a backpack full of ammunition, the shotgun he was using and a .38-caliber pistol. (Watch police detail the shooter's steps)

 

The teen killed five people and wounded four at the Trolley Square mall, including two people shot in the parking lot as he arrived around 7 p.m. Monday, another at the entrance and then five people inside a card store, Burbank said.

 

"It appears to be very random," he said. "There was no sense to why he was doing what he was doing.

 

"The suspect in this particular circumstance had one thing on his mind, and that was to kill a large number of people."

 

Had the off-duty Ogden police officer, who had a gun but no extra equipment or additional ammunition, not gone after the gunman, the teenager likely would have continued shooting people on his way through the mall, Burbank said.

 

Police know little about the young man so far.

 

The card store Cabin Fever had been packed with Valentine's Day shoppers Monday night when the shooting started, store owner David Dean said.

 

Dean said his assistant manager called him, saying "someone's in the store killing people." The place was "all shot up," Dean said. He said three or four of the victims were shot inside. (Watch witnesses recount gunshots, carnage)

 

As investigators began interviewing the 100 to 200 witnesses, people placed candles and flowers at two memorials outside the mall for the victims. Business owners surveyed the damage, and shoppers who had fled returned to pick up cars they had to leave parked overnight.

 

Shooter seemed "an average Joe"

Marie Smith, 23, a Bath & Body Works manager, said she had seen the gunman through the store window. She watched as he raised his gun and fired at a young woman approaching him from behind.

 

"His expression stayed totally calm. He didn't seem upset, or like he was on a rampage," said Smith, who crawled to an employee restroom to hide with others. He looked like "an average Joe," she said.

 

The victims were identified as Jeffrey Walker, 52, Vanessa Quinn, 29, Kirsten Hinkley, 15, Teresa Ellis, 29, and Brad Frantz, 24. Four people were hospitalized -- a 44-year-old woman and a 53-year-old man in critical condition, and a 34-year-old man and a 16-year-old boy in serious condition.

 

For hours after the rampage, police searched stores for scared, shocked shoppers and employees who were hunkered down awaiting a safe escort.

 

Matt Lund was visiting his wife, Barbara, manager of the Secret Garden children's clothing store, when he heard the first shots. The couple and three others hid in a storage room for about 40 minutes, isolated but still able to hear the violence.

 

"We heard them say 'Police! Drop your weapon!' Then we heard shotgun fire. Then there was a barrage of gunfire," said Lund, 44. "It was hard to believe."

 

Witnesses said officers treated everyone like suspects -- ordering those hiding in storerooms, bathrooms or under stairwells, to lie on the floor with their hands on their heads until police were sure no one posed a threat.

 

On the way out, Lund said, he saw a woman's body face-down at the entrance to Pottery Barn Kids and a man's body on the floor in the mall's east-west corridor. "There were a lot of blown-out store windows and shotgun shell casings all over the floor," Lund said. "It was quite surreal."

 

The victims were found throughout the 239,000-square-foot shopping mall.

 

Outside, streets were blocked as police swarmed the four-block scene. Dozens of people lingered on the sidewalk, many wrapped in blankets, as they talked about what they had seen inside.

 

Four police officers -- the off-duty officer from Ogden and three Salt Lake City officers -- were involved in the shootout with the gunman, Snyder said. She provided no other details.

 

The two-story mall, southeast of downtown, is a refurbished trolley barn built in 1908, with a series of winding hallways, brick floors, wrought-iron balconies and about 80 stores, including high-end retailers such as Williams-Sonoma and restaurants such as the Hard Rock Cafe.

 

It was purchased in August by Scanlan Kemper Bard Cos. of Portland, Oregon, from Simon Property Group for $38.6 million. The company said it planned to invest $80 million, attract a new anchor tenant and possibly add condominiums.

 

"We are devastated and shocked by this senseless, random act of violence and tragedy at Trolley Square, owner Tom Bard said in a statement posted on the KSL-TV Web site.

 

"At this time our greatest concern and prayers are with the victims, their families and loved ones."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/13/salt.lake...g.ap/index.html

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Between this and Anna Nicole coverage CNN is having a field day.

[Sideburnious 0]

Sorry maybe I missed it, but did they kill the shooter or arrest him?

[SuperJerk 0]

He's dead.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

So, what's in the drinking water in America? Because you guys seem to have the Gun-Crazy Teen demographic locked the fuck down.

[Art Sandusky 0]

So, what's in the drinking water in America?

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Is there something in the Constitution about that gene ya'll have that can cause you to go loco at any moment?

[Guest Oedipus Rex]

So, what's in the drinking water in America?

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

Weak response. People who want to do things like this will obtain guns irrespective of legality.

[Art Sandusky 0]

If it wasn't there, it wouldn't be as much of a problem.

[Guest Oedipus Rex]

If I'm a batshit Bosnian refugee who wants to shoot up a shopping mall, I'm gonna do it, 2nd amendment or not.

[snuffbox 0]

Do you mean like how hard it is to get drugs?

[chirs3 0]

Creepy for me. That mall is about a block and a half from my apartment.

 

I'm almost glad I ended up working overtime last night - I wouldn't want to have run across that scene.

[Art Sandusky 0]

If I'm a batshit Bosnian refugee who wants to shoot up a shopping mall, I'm gonna do it, 2nd amendment or not.

Yes, use an extraordinary case to speak for a much more subtle and complex issue.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

Totally not funny tidbit - In 2nd period health the teacher was rattling off suicide statistics, and around the same time this story was reported (I assume it took an hour to report this, happened at 7, probably broke around 8 when I'm in there) I figured out how many suicides theoretically had already happened.

 

This wasn't a suicide, but it's still kind of creepy.

[Guest Oedipus Rex]

Well, this thread is about a batshit Bosnian refugee who shot up a shopping mall. I didn't think I was going out of bounds on that one.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

ABC News had a short piece on mall security. I'm sorry, but once in awhile tragedies are going to happen. You can't go insane on securing every single public place because there's an incident every five years or so.

[2GOLD 0]

ABC News had a short piece on mall security. I'm sorry, but once in awhile tragedies are going to happen. You can't go insane on securing every single public place because there's an incident every five years or so.

 

This is exactly what our stupid country does. Something happens in a place it rarely or never happens, some white people get shot at (that's the key, no white people then no coverage), and suddenly we are debating not whether or not we should install metal detectors but when and why do we hate the children not to do it.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Malls are too worried about thieves to worry about gun toting crazy people...

 

Mall Security is almost an oxymoron.

[SuperJerk 0]

If I'm a batshit Bosnian refugee who wants to shoot up a shopping mall, I'm gonna do it, 2nd amendment or not.

Do you have any real world facts to back that argument up with, or are you just going to take us on a ride through your imaginary parrallel universe?

[Guest Oedipus Rex]

I am going to do just that! I call it The Czechatorium. On your right you'll see an bottomless reservoir of IBC root beer, and on the left, the 159-3 Chicago Cubs, because even The Czechatorium can't be perfect. I know I may not be the king of a white cinder-block cube, but I takes what I can gets.

 

But seriously, I didn't know that sort of thing necessitated facts. I just can't see how loophole-laden gun laws (is there any other kind?) would deter a psychopath from carrying out large-scale premeditated acts of violence.

[SuperJerk 0]

I am going to do just that! I call it The Czechatorium. On your right you'll see an bottomless reservoir of IBC root beer, and on the left, the 159-3 Chicago Cubs, because even The Czechatorium can't be perfect. I know I may not be the king of a white cinder-block cube, but I takes what I can gets.

 

Okay, I had that coming.

 

But seriously, I didn't know that sort of thing necessitated facts. I just can't see how loophole-laden gun laws (is there any other kind?) would deter a psychopath from carrying out large-scale premeditated acts of violence.

Maybe not hard statistic per se, but some verifiable information to disuade me from thinking there's a direct relationship between the legal availability of large quantities fire arms in the United States and our abundance of homicidal acts involving those same weapons.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

I am going to do just that! I call it The Czechatorium. On your right you'll see an bottomless reservoir of IBC root beer, and on the left, the 150-12 Chicago Cubs, because even The Czechatorium can't be perfect. I know I may not be the king of a white cinder-block cube, but I takes what I can gets.

 

But seriously, I didn't know that sort of thing necessitated facts. I just can't see how loophole-laden gun laws (is there any other kind?) would deter a psychopath from carrying out large-scale premeditated acts of violence.

 

Had to fix it. Prior and Wood are bound to miss a few starts, even in the Czechatorium.

[Guest Oedipus Rex]

Thought I had the spirit of the joke nailed down the first time, Muggy, and Kerry Wood is a reliever, but whatever, do your thing.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

FUCK FUCK FUCK. I forgot they made Wood a reliever. Can't believe that. I'll go hang my head and shame and walk away. Carry on.

[Guest Dope Priest Prophecy]

Maybe not hard statistic per se, but some verifiable information to disuade me from thinking there's a direct relationship between the legal availability of large quantities fire arms in the United States and our abundance of homicidal acts involving those same weapons.

 

Speaking of statistics, how many murders are committed with legally obtained weapons as opposed to the guns in D-Loc's trunk? Furthermore, do you really want to disarm the law abiding part of the populace in a country already full of guns?

[justsoyouknow 0]

ABC News had a short piece on mall security. I'm sorry, but once in awhile tragedies are going to happen. You can't go insane on securing every single public place because there's an incident every five years or so.

 

This is exactly what our stupid country does. Something happens in a place it rarely or never happens, some white people get shot at (that's the key, no white people then no coverage), and suddenly we are debating not whether or not we should install metal detectors but when and why do we hate the children not to do it.

 

Oh, fuck off. Maybe the news just doesn't feel like reporting a shooting every thirty-six seconds.

[SuperJerk 0]

ABC News had a short piece on mall security. I'm sorry, but once in awhile tragedies are going to happen. You can't go insane on securing every single public place because there's an incident every five years or so.

 

This is exactly what our stupid country does. Something happens in a place it rarely or never happens, some white people get shot at (that's the key, no white people then no coverage), and suddenly we are debating not whether or not we should install metal detectors but when and why do we hate the children not to do it.

 

Oh, fuck off. Maybe the news just doesn't feel like reporting a shooting every thirty-six seconds.

Thank goodness for Tom Cruise and Anna Nicole Smith.

[gWIL 0]

So, what's in the drinking water in America?

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

Weak response. People who want to do things like this will obtain guns irrespective of legality.

 

 

Maybe not hard statistic per se, but some verifiable information to disuade me from thinking there's a direct relationship between the legal availability of large quantities fire arms in the United States and our abundance of homicidal acts involving those same weapons.

 

Speaking of statistics, how many murders are committed with legally obtained weapons as opposed to the guns in D-Loc's trunk? Furthermore, do you really want to disarm the law abiding part of the populace in a country already full of guns?

 

Something like 98% of guns on the black market started off by being sold legally. Any American that says gun control needs to look at just about any other country that has gun control and their much lower rate of homicides.

[Ripper 0]

So, what's in the drinking water in America?

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

Weak response. People who want to do things like this will obtain guns irrespective of legality.

 

 

Maybe not hard statistic per se, but some verifiable information to disuade me from thinking there's a direct relationship between the legal availability of large quantities fire arms in the United States and our abundance of homicidal acts involving those same weapons.

 

Speaking of statistics, how many murders are committed with legally obtained weapons as opposed to the guns in D-Loc's trunk? Furthermore, do you really want to disarm the law abiding part of the populace in a country already full of guns?

 

Something like 98% of guns on the black market started off by being sold legally. Any American that says gun control needs to look at just about any other country that has gun control and their much lower rate of homicides.

 

You can rip on me if I am wrong, but there is no way you didn't just pull that stat out of your ass. Gun running accounts for more than 2 percent of the guns on the black market.

[SuperJerk 0]

Define "gun running."

 

I really don't buy the "criminals obtain their weapons illegally" bit because someone had to legally manufacture the damn things in the first place.

 

I forgot to acknowledge that Czech made a really good earlier with how many gun loopholes there are.

 

Even if you were able to enforce laws to keep every military-style weapon out of civilian hands, hunting rifles, shotguns, and pistols are still dangerous weapons.

 

Long story short, I don't really know where I fall on this issue, because both sides make a lot of really good points. I need more information before I can make up my mind.