UFC 69: Shootout

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'm glad I'm not the only one shocked by this. I still can't get over it. This makes no sense on any level whatsoever. GSP's chin was not exposed here, he took some tough shots against BJ as well, who also has a lot of power. He also got through a brawl with BJ who is a much better striker than Matt.

 

THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

 

This totally ruined the fun of "Nineteen and....WUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN"

 

He got into a brawl with BJ and for it he lost the round and his face look like hamburger meat.

 

And Carlito, take Josh out of your mouth for fucks sake. He looked like a pile of dogshit in there, whereas Diego looked like a mountain of dogshit. Diego is the bitch? He's not the one whoooing it up and cutting horrible heel promo's. Koscheck has absolutely nothing to be proud of but neither does Diego for that matter.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

My point is that he came back and won the fight, he didn't get put away like he did there.

 

And Josh's promo was pretty awesome.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Well, it did it's job and by that I mean it made people hate him even more and want to see him get his ass stomped.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I use "chin" incorrectly and just have it represent "the ability to take a punch". GSP showed in the BJ fight that he is pretty uncomfortable exchanging punches. Even against Sherk, he showed a primarily blocking means of defense,it's just Sherk didn't throw bombs and any shots he did land weren't big ones. His game is more "get in, get out", where he picks his shots rather than looking to scrap. The positive thing with BJ is that BJ didn't put enough pressure on GSP to break him, which allowed GSP time to show composure under the pressure that was put on him. BJ more countered than anything and didn't press to get to the point of finishing GSP.

 

Not saying that Serra put a lot of pressure on St. Pierre, but the mere threat of pressure that his right hand presented had Georges worried. This had GSP afraid to engage because he knew a big right would be coming at him if he did. Now this isn't the book on St. Pierre, because he wasn't fighting like he had something to prove - whereas in his fight fights against Sherk, Trigg and Hughes he did -. He very much didn't take the fight to Serra and never used any of his main weapons, most notably the takedown. Had he used the takedown, grinded Serra out on the ground with elbows, and brought it back up, then Serra would have been more concerned with controlling the takedown with his right hand rather than loading it up for a bomb.

 

MMA is about mixing it up, nowadays. That's where Diego fell, because he never once mixed it up and put into Koschecks mind that there could be more than just defensive boxing to look out for. And Diego has absolutely, 0% head movement while standing. Forgot to mention that.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I'm glad I'm not the only one shocked by this. I still can't get over it. This makes no sense on any level whatsoever. GSP's chin was not exposed here, he took some tough shots against BJ as well, who also has a lot of power. He also got through a brawl with BJ who is a much better striker than Matt.

 

THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

 

This totally ruined the fun of "Nineteen and....WUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN"

 

He got into a brawl with BJ and for it he lost the round and his face look like hamburger meat.

 

And Carlito, take Josh out of your mouth for fucks sake. He looked like a pile of dogshit in there, whereas Diego looked like a mountain of dogshit. Diego is the bitch? He's not the one whoooing it up and cutting horrible heel promo's. Koscheck has absolutely nothing to be proud of but neither does Diego for that matter.

 

Diego was the one who got all hyped up at the weigh-in's, even physically pushing Josh, then came into the fight and fought very passive espically compared to past Diego fights, so yes, he is the bitch.

 

And Koscheck defeating a 19-0 fighter, whom was also considered the future of the divison, is somthing to be very proud of.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Koscheck makes Tim Sylvia look like Shogun on meth.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Sanchez/Koscheck was incredibly boring. Sanchez seemed to be waiting for Koscheck to do something he could counter, while Koscheck was content to do just enough to get a decision win without doing anything that Sanchez could counter, once again proving how unexciting he is.

 

What more can be said about the main event? I can't see Dana White being too happy with Serra beating GSP. Instead of having their Canadian hero as the Welterweight champion to spearhead the UFC's movement into Canada, and a fighter that people can credibly believe is a top level fighter (whether he is or isn't doesn't matter), they've now got a Welterweight champion who is not even in the Top 10, who I don't think most MMA fans (the casual ones who make up the bulk of the record PPV buys) take that seriously, and who has no personality or charisma to make him marketable. UFC now have a Welterweight champion that instead of being marketed on on being a great fighter or a tremendous personality, is probably going to get marketed on being so weak that he could lose the title to anyone at any time. That Serra beat GSP doesn't mean a great deal, I think, because I don't see that it made anyone look at Serra as anything other than a guy who got lucky in this fight, and that if he and GSP had 100 fights GSP would win 99 and this just happened to be the one fight that Serra won.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

GSP seemed to be giving Serra too much respect, even in the pre-fight interviews. I don't know why he was so hesitant. The guy needs to be meaner.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I'm glad I'm not the only one shocked by this. I still can't get over it. This makes no sense on any level whatsoever. GSP's chin was not exposed here, he took some tough shots against BJ as well, who also has a lot of power. He also got through a brawl with BJ who is a much better striker than Matt.

 

THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

 

This totally ruined the fun of "Nineteen and....WUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN"

 

He got into a brawl with BJ and for it he lost the round and his face look like hamburger meat.

 

And Carlito, take Josh out of your mouth for fucks sake. He looked like a pile of dogshit in there, whereas Diego looked like a mountain of dogshit. Diego is the bitch? He's not the one whoooing it up and cutting horrible heel promo's. Koscheck has absolutely nothing to be proud of but neither does Diego for that matter.

 

Diego was the one who got all hyped up at the weigh-in's, even physically pushing Josh, then came into the fight and fought very passive espically compared to past Diego fights, so yes, he is the bitch.

 

And Koscheck defeating a 19-0 fighter, whom was also considered the future of the divison, is somthing to be very proud of.

 

If you're honestly going to hang your hat on that performance then you're a bigger fool then you come off as. Which is fairly big.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Koscheck won the fight, but I don't think he 'beat' Sanchez. Not even close.

[randomguy 0]

I like the analysis you guys provide.

 

GSP gave a guy with heavy hands too much respect. He should have just rushed in face first I suppose.

 

GSP's weakness is getting punched in the face. You don't say? What a novel strategy - hey, try punching him, in the face, a lot. Nobody ever thought of that before!

 

And Koschek sucks for beating someone 19-0 with a sound strategy. I guess he also should have rushed in face first also.

 

Koschek gave a great performance. Sure it was boring, but he won a 3 round decision without really ever getting hit. That isn't easy to do. Don't hate a guy because he had a solid gameplan and his opponent was a dumb chump. And the weakness GSP exposed was not getting punched in the face, it was a lack of variety on offense. He relied far too much on left kicks and let Serra get comfy.

 

Edit: Kos didn't beat Sanchez? He barely got touched. He could have gone 50 rounds without a bruise on him. You don't call that getting beat? Yeah, it would have been awesome if Kos had waded in and swung for the fences, but he fought a smart fight and did what he has to do to win. If you want to blame someone for the boring fight blame Diego, who didn't adjust at all and just kept with his losing strategy until the very end.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

No one buys a PPV to see a fighter win boring fights. People dont' hate Koscheck for having a 'solid gameplan' or anything like that. They hate him because he's boring.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If you want to blame someone for the boring fight blame Diego, who didn't adjust at all and just kept with his losing strategy until the very end.

I can, and will, also blame Koscheck for not pressing the fight. His strategy was to win on points, and that's it. Great for putting ticks in the win column. Not so great for putting on exciting fights, which are what sells.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I like the analysis you guys provide.

 

GSP gave a guy with heavy hands too much respect. He should have just rushed in face first I suppose.

 

GSP's weakness is getting punched in the face. You don't say? What a novel strategy - hey, try punching him, in the face, a lot. Nobody ever thought of that before!

 

And Koschek sucks for beating someone 19-0 with a sound strategy. I guess he also should have rushed in face first also.

 

Koschek gave a great performance. Sure it was boring, but he won a 3 round decision without really ever getting hit. That isn't easy to do. Don't hate a guy because he had a solid gameplan and his opponent was a dumb chump. And the weakness GSP exposed was not getting punched in the face, it was a lack of variety on offense. He relied far too much on left kicks and let Serra get comfy.

 

Edit: Kos didn't beat Sanchez? He barely got touched. He could have gone 50 rounds without a bruise on him. You don't call that getting beat? Yeah, it would have been awesome if Kos had waded in and swung for the fences, but he fought a smart fight and did what he has to do to win. If you want to blame someone for the boring fight blame Diego, who didn't adjust at all and just kept with his losing strategy until the very end.

 

On the contrary, when you're fighting a guy who's strategy is to not box with you it's quite easy to go 3 rounds without getting hit.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Saying Serra has no charisma is a big head-scratcher. The guy is an awesome talker and has a big personality. He doesn't have a superstar aura around him, but to say he doesn't have any charisma is missing the mark. They can market Hughes vs. Serra though, using the footage from TUF4. You also have the Red State/Blue State thing going, with Hughes being the farm boy and Serra being based in NYC. I think both guys could really sell that fight through their words alone, with Hughes coming off like a gigantic prick and Serra having the win over GSP to hang over Hughes, plus saying that Hughes is submission prone as well as using their last 2 fights showing Hughes looking lacklustre and Serra breaking out. The more I think about it, the more I like that fight.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Saying Serra has no charisma is a big head-scratcher. The guy is an awesome talker and has a big personality. He doesn't have a superstar aura around him, but to say he doesn't have any charisma is missing the mark.

You have a much higher opinion of Serra's intangibles than I do.

 

But you're right that a Serra vs. Hughes fight as potential. Serra playing off of Hughes being a natural asshole could do good business.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

They just need to point out that when Serra was asked by Rogan after winning TUF who he'd rather face Serra responded "Hughes, because I don't like him".

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Calling holding up your right hand and occasionally throwing it a "great performance" is a statement from someone who hasn't actually seen too many great performances to accurately call one...

 

Not wanting to get hit is not a weakness. However, letting that fear affect you both defensively and (most importantly) offensively is. A big part of striking defensively is to put forth some offense to deter your opponent from attacking and putting pressure. Countering is also a deterrent. This is why Fedor beat Cro Cop. Everytime Cro Cop threw a punch, Fedor threw 2. Fedor put it into Cro Cops mind that "every time I throw a punch, I will be taking one". He didn't let Cro Cop control the pace, he constantly had Filipovic on the backstep, and that prevented Cro Cop from implementing his strategy. Fedor also attempted and took Cro Cop down as to put Cro Cop on notice that he also had to worry about getting taken down. THAT was a great performance.

 

What GSP did was throw high kicks to keep the distance and little else. Serra, on the other hand, every thing he threw at GSP had force behind it and he threw them in bunches. That sends a message and had GSP backing up and keeping a distance that ended up hurting him because Serra could see him coming every time. GSPs fear of fighting in the pocket, of getting close enough for takedowns and clinches and knees, allowed Matt to get at a comfort level where he ultimately ended up feeling comfortable enough to commit to landing a wild shot.

 

And there are fighters that if you do put a lot of pressure on them, end up winning the exchanges and putting you on your ass because of various reasons - chin, avoidance, countering, power, etc. - where a strategy of stick and move would be more beneficial. Dan Henderson, for example, is very dangerous when put into a brawling situation, where more technical strikers like Gono and Chonan ended up on their ass because of a wild big right.

 

GSP gave a guy with heavy hands too much respect. He should have just rushed in face first I suppose.

 

Why not shoot for a takedown?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Saying Serra has no charisma is a big head-scratcher. The guy is an awesome talker and has a big personality. He doesn't have a superstar aura around him, but to say he doesn't have any charisma is missing the mark.

You have a much higher opinion of Serra's intangibles than I do.

 

But you're right that a Serra vs. Hughes fight as potential. Serra playing off of Hughes being a natural asshole could do good business.

 

Talking is not an intangible. Do you honestly think he isn't one of the best talkers in the sport? He doesn't talk trash, but in terms of fluid speaking and style, there are few better.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Saying Serra has no charisma is a big head-scratcher. The guy is an awesome talker and has a big personality. He doesn't have a superstar aura around him, but to say he doesn't have any charisma is missing the mark.

You have a much higher opinion of Serra's intangibles than I do.

 

But you're right that a Serra vs. Hughes fight as potential. Serra playing off of Hughes being a natural asshole could do good business.

 

Talking is not an intangible. Do you honestly think he isn't one of the best talkers in the sport? He doesn't talk trash, but in terms of fluid speaking and style, there are few better.

The problem I have with Serra is that, no matter how well he talks, I have no interest in what he says. I don't know what it is, but Serra has something about him that makes me not care about what he says, no matter how well he's saying it. I'll grant that he can talk fluidly and he's not shy out there. I just don't care about anything he has to say. That might changes when he takes on Hughes, which I think is next, but we'll see.

[randomguy 0]

Why would GSP go for a takedown when everyone thinks he has better standup and has a huge reach advantage? It's not like GSP's gameplan was a total failure for 3 rounds, he just got caught.

 

If he was losing standing after a round or two then going for takedowns makes sense. But two minutes into the first there wasn't any need for that. And it wasn't like Franklin vs. Silva were Franklin got destroyed standing up for a while. GSP was getting the worst of it but there wasn't any serious damage until the KO flurry started.

 

He did need more variety on offense - body kicks, more punches, etc. But getting it to the ground, where Serra wants it in theory, isn't a sound plan. They were still in the feeling-out period when the KO happened.

 

As far as the Kos fight, yeah it was boring, but he fought to win. I like myfights exciting but I watch MMA to see the best guys in the world, not goons with no skills who can throw down. You can't blame Kos for sticking with a plan that was working. But you can sure as hell blame Diego for sticking with a plan that was failing miserably.

 

Diego did get exposed as a guy with no standup who is afraid to even try to take down a good wrestler. Sprawl and brawl will destroy him.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No, I can't blame Koscheck for winning. That's probably his greatest strength, beyond his wrestling is his ability to not only win, but to be comfortable with doing just enough to win and not let the crowd or expectations swing him from his gameplan. It's a plus, but it could be something that will hurt him in the future if he relies on it too much. His is a game of inches, where he gets a point and then avoids getting a point put on him. That's walking a tightrope. No doubt Diego looked bad, but it's hard for me to say Koscheck looked good.

 

In retrospect, it's easy for me to say "this is what St. Pierre should have done, this is why he lost". However, I don't think it's wrong to analyze the fight as such. The context was what St. Pierre should do against a guy with heavy hands, and going for a takedown is a way of not only taking away the heavy hands, but also getting those hands lower to prevent a takedown and not up to counter. When you look at all the guys Serra has submitted in the UFC, it's like, one. I wasn't calling for St. Pierre to take him down and make it an ADCC match, I was calling for him to take Serra down, drop some bows, and get back up.

 

Granted, Serras physique is stocky and his hips are lower to the ground than most fighters' which would have made it hard for a shot, but even the idea of a shot would have probably kept those hands lower and Serra less likely to swing wildly if the thought of a takedown was in his head. Even a bodylock or clinch would have been something, but then again, this is where St. Pierres fear of getting hit becomes relevant. This fear was heightened with the pressure of defending the title put on him, whereas previously he had something to prove which allowed him to push past that fear to some degree and be more aggressive with the takedown and whatnot.

 

Of course, I freely admit to over-analyzing this and it could be simpler, but I am trying to put things in order as my world sorta got flipped upside down last night with Matt fucking Serra knocking out Georges St. Pierre. I think if GSP adapted MY strategies into the rematch, he'd win it handily I think I might have to go to his seminar to tell him this.

[razazteca 0]

I'm thinking the trademark Canadian reverse kick to the gut and knee/shin kick to the head would get GSP the win.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

With the Pride acquisition, I think I've come up with the ideal "Dream Match", with Ricardo Arona cutting down to 185 so that him and Koscheck could do battle. Crazy as it sounds, my money is on the fight going to a decision.

[Just call me Dan 0]

Hughes smiling was quite dickish, but how could he NOT smile watching the WW title fall right back into his fucking lap with this crazy outcome? He was smiling as if the belt just got put right back around his waist.

[Mik 0]

I still can't believe it. I never thought Serra would win in a million years. When I checked the results this morning I was only mainly interested in Koscheck/Sanchez because I expected a first round GSP KO. Wow.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Was anyone else really pissed off that Matt Hughes kept going "I love it" while laughing and clapping? I think it's real hard now to try and defend him as being anything but a dick.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Everything should end with a smug Matt Hughes reaction.

[starvenger 0]

Was anyone else really pissed off that Matt Hughes kept going "I love it" while laughing and clapping? I think it's real hard now to try and defend him as being anything but a dick.

Consider it the equivalent of the Jim smirk, but with dickish intent plus an extra side of dickery. I can see Hughes going into a fight with Serra way overconfident.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

There's a video on YouTube shot ringside of Rashad and Tito getting up in each others face, Tito shoves Rashad and Forrest Griffin pulls Rashad away and Tito is seperated. Forrest rules.