OAO WrestleMania 23 Thread-April 1st, 2007

[ChrisMWaters 0]

EHME, why do you say MVP "dragged Kane to good matches"? Glenn Jacobs is not exactly a poor worker by any means.

 

When I said that, I didn't mean to label Kane as a bad worker, because he is far from it, but he is a lazy worker, who hasn't, atleast IMO put on a good matches prior to the MVP matches in ages. It seems like he is very unmotivated, but really who can blame him? I hope he gets a decent title run soon.

 

sadly, I think the title run boat has long since sailed...he certainly deserved better than a 1 day reign from a tainted victory. He does appear unmotivated at times, I can definitely agree with you there.

Actually, I could see a situation that would be a good set up for another Kane title reign.

 

First, have both The Undertaker and Kane win their matches at WrestleMania. Kane conquers Khali, and Undertaker is now World Heavyweight Champion.

 

From there, have a few matches where Kane and Undertaker team up again while Undertaker is till the World Champion. During those matches' entrances and exits, have Kane eye the World Heavyweight Championship, hinting that he may want it.

 

Then, after some teaming, a missed communication spot causes either Kane or Undertaker to cost the other the match somehow. Kane snaps, and blames Undertaker, starting to attack him violently.

 

From there, that would set up the challenge being put forth, Kane wanting to win the World Title from his brother at last.

 

Set it up for Summerslam or, at the latest (if you're willing to put up with this long an Undertaker reign) Survivor Series, and at the event, have Kane beat The Undertaker 1-2-3.

 

That's how I would book Undertaker and Kane from WrestleMania onward.

 

EDIT: Also, your point about the title run boat long since passed...weren't we saying that about Booker as well a year before his most recent title reign?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

If Taker becomes champion, one of the people who he would want to job the title to, is Kane.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Batista has 0% chance of winning.

 

Although I'd love to see WWE give him the win over Taker only for Batista to injure something else and be out for 8 months. And Taker just sits there like "I'm not feelin' this...".

[haVoc 0]

But what does 16-0 mean in a few years when Taker is retired? You've constructed a situation for Taker to give the ultimate rub and wasted it for nothing. Taker retiring with his streak intact doesn't draw you any more money. Pride and legacy don't mean jack shit in wrestling.

 

It could draw down the road if they give some young kid (or Edge) a few victories at Mania and then he can try to beat Taker's record someday. It's a money match every year for Mania. The marks will pay to see a great heel like Edge possibly get his undefeated streak broken, vice versa for a good face character.

 

I know that's a long term investment to put into some one in this day and age but there is a chance they will realize they gave somebody like Edge 8 straight wins and take it from there.

[Black Lushus 0]

I'll be 100% astounded and shocked if Khali does not go over at WM.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I really don't want to see another Undertaker/Kane feud, or even a team up. I hope WWE is smart enough to know they've already done that scenario about a million times already in the last 10 years.

[Black Lushus 0]

well hey, gear up for HHH/HBK match #2423525, then

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yeah...excitement.

 

Anyone else sick of HBK coming out to the DX music by the way? I hate how he's announced as "represeting DX." How can you represent a group if you're the only active member? It's lame. I hope he uses "Sexy Boy" as his theme at Wrestlemania.

[Hawk 34 0]

Why does everyone insist that Edge needs to be undefeated to sell a match with Undertaker at WM24? Edge is the top heel and Taker will always be a top face. They would have dynamic program with each other and Edge having a streak of his own isn't going to make that better or more appealing. Would it be a nice Addition? Sure but Edge doesn't need that "rub" of ending Taker's streak or his own streak either. Edge is cemented main event star. It would be like HHH going over at WM17.

 

As for this show itself...

 

Here's how i have it going

 

After Aretha's performence and the opening video package/pyro show, we lead right into MVP's elaborate entrance.

 

Opening Match

US Title Match

Chris Benoit Vs MVP

 

This will get a good deal of time. Not quite 30 minutes as some people have thrown out there but I'm looking at 18-20 minutes. These two will have a good, if not great match that'll serve as the Steamboat/Savage for this Mania in Detroit. It really could go either way. I'll call for Benoit winning here just because I think this could be a chance to put MVP over more by losing then a victory.

 

Khali Vs Kane

This can't go more then five minutes. It'll be a interesting sight and that'll keep it from tanking and if they do a punchy punch deal and kill the match before the fans turn (and they will), then this can be a success. Perhaps they will do some "sadistic" thing from Kane in order to prolong this into some goofy gimmick match next month.

 

Money in the Bank

Talk about a match that has so much going for it. We can eliminate the Hardyz, Booker and Finlay for contention. They'll serve a great role here but they aren't going over for obvious reasons. The build of the match has been Edge avoiding everyone and that'll probably continue at WM with Edge playing the chicken heel and trying to sneak his way. He finally does the crafty sneak in bit with everyone laid out but only to be stopped by Orton. This finally sets up the long awaited physical confrontation between the two. Punk is going to be the big star in this match, from the crowd and the booking. I know a great deal of people here never saw Punk before he arrived in WWE but he is a fantastic bumper and these matches were his niche. In fact, I'll call Punk taking a gusher blade job just for dramatic effect. Expect Punk to bust out some crazy tribute to KENTA with the ladder. Kennedy is the dark horse in that he could actually gain from this match. Does he need it? I don't think and either does Orton and Edge. It's Punk who stands to gain the most from this. It's obvious WWE can tell he will be a huge star and putting him over on this stage will go a long, long way. Expect this to go 25 minutes as well. There's too many talented workers in this and they can do some crafty things. Last year's version was limited because they had a big man in Lashley, a old man in Flair and Finlay who wasn't taking many bumps. They do need to involve Hornswoggle in this match though. Too obvious to pass up.

 

LumberJill Match

Ashley Vs Melina

 

Will 15 beautiful DIVAS surrounding the ring distract us enough from the abomination inside the ring? Probably not. The pressure is all on Melina here and I'm not sure I trust her to rise up to it. Ashley isn't going to help matters much. Hopefully, this stays under 7 minutes.

 

Battle of the Billionaires

Donald Trump W/Lashley Vs Vince McMahon W/Umaga

 

The levels of overbooking will be insane here. This match will be a well done trainwreck garbage match that the crowd will eat up as will the marks at home. As for a p.r standpoint, Donald getting his head shaved off would be monumential but the probability of that happening isn't really all that likely. Lashley and Umaga work well in these environments, so that is a plus for them. How long goes this go is up in the air. Between the two actual workers, it shouldn't surprass 12 minutes but given the hype and spectacle of the billionaires, it could stretch out longer. I expect Lashley to win with some sort of sick spot. McMahon gets shaved and a beer fest follows.

 

New Breed Vs Originals

 

This gets the quick time filler spot between the BotB and the title match main events. If they keep RVD and Burke involved, this should be fine. Sandman will probably be quite over as well. ECW really needs something big to push the brand and that is turning RVD. We've gone over this many times. RVD is likely going out the door and the best use of him is to put over someone in a big way and that's CM Punk. RVD-Punk is a gold mine program and right now, Punk is a top babyface for WWE and if they can use Punk to bury RVD out the door, they will. With all the teasing about Punk possibly joining, RVD does the turn here in order to "save his job" setting up the obvious and simple Punk-RVD program.

 

Shawn Michaels Vs John Cena

 

This will be a great match. These two always come up big time on this type of stage and they have such great chemistry together as well. The crowd response as usual will fuel this match. This will go 20-25 minutes and Cena is going over but the finish should be interesting. If Edge was going over, I'd actually do the double title change with HBK winning by miracle pin only for Edge to cash in on the spot and win the title but that isn't happening.

 

Undertaker Vs Batista

 

This is the main event and it'll go 15 minutes but Undertaker will have a very extended entrance. Batista isn't going over but the curious booking will be how strong he goes down.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

I was having trouble putting the card in order, but I think you did it perfectly. My concern was seperating the two title matches with something - either Kane/Khali, New Breed vs Originals or the Diva's and none fit the spot. However I'm sure the wwe will introduce the WWE Hall of Fame Class of 2007 in between the two title matches to give the fans a breather.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

I was gonna post the way I would book it but you got it just about exactly how I would have done it. My comments are in bold.

 

Why does everyone insist that Edge needs to be undefeated to sell a match with Undertaker at WM24? Edge is the top heel and Taker will always be a top face. They would have dynamic program with each other and Edge having a streak of his own isn't going to make that better or more appealing. Would it be a nice Addition? Sure but Edge doesn't need that "rub" of ending Taker's streak or his own streak either. Edge is cemented main event star. It would be like HHH going over at WM17.

 

As for this show itself...

 

Here's how i have it going

 

After Aretha's performence and the opening video package/pyro show, we lead right into MVP's elaborate entrance.

 

Opening Match

US Title Match

Chris Benoit Vs MVP

 

This will get a good deal of time. Not quite 30 minutes as some people have thrown out there but I'm looking at 18-20 minutes. These two will have a good, if not great match that'll serve as the Steamboat/Savage for this Mania in Detroit. It really could go either way. I'll call for Benoit winning here just because I think this could be a chance to put MVP over more by losing then a victory.

 

I would have Benoit win too, so they can continue this feud for another month or so, with MVP eventually getting the belt.

 

Khali Vs Kane

This can't go more then five minutes. It'll be a interesting sight and that'll keep it from tanking and if they do a punchy punch deal and kill the match before the fans turn (and they will), then this can be a success. Perhaps they will do some "sadistic" thing from Kane in order to prolong this into some goofy gimmick match next month.

 

Idk who wins, it really doesn't matter, but it will probably be Khali.

 

Money in the Bank

Talk about a match that has so much going for it. We can eliminate the Hardyz, Booker and Finlay for contention. They'll serve a great role here but they aren't going over for obvious reasons. The build of the match has been Edge avoiding everyone and that'll probably continue at WM with Edge playing the chicken heel and trying to sneak his way. He finally does the crafty sneak in bit with everyone laid out but only to be stopped by Orton. This finally sets up the long awaited physical confrontation between the two. Punk is going to be the big star in this match, from the crowd and the booking. I know a great deal of people here never saw Punk before he arrived in WWE but he is a fantastic bumper and these matches were his niche. In fact, I'll call Punk taking a gusher blade job just for dramatic effect. Expect Punk to bust out some crazy tribute to KENTA with the ladder. Kennedy is the dark horse in that he could actually gain from this match. Does he need it? I don't think and either does Orton and Edge. It's Punk who stands to gain the most from this. It's obvious WWE can tell he will be a huge star and putting him over on this stage will go a long, long way. Expect this to go 25 minutes as well. There's too many talented workers in this and they can do some crafty things. Last year's version was limited because they had a big man in Lashley, a old man in Flair and Finlay who wasn't taking many bumps. They do need to involve Hornswoggle in this match though. Too obvious to pass up.

 

I still say have Edge win. WWE doesn't have the balls to give it to Punk.

 

LumberJill Match

Ashley Vs Melina

 

Will 15 beautiful DIVAS surrounding the ring distract us enough from the abomination inside the ring? Probably not. The pressure is all on Melina here and I'm not sure I trust her to rise up to it. Ashley isn't going to help matters much. Hopefully, this stays under 7 minutes.

 

Hopefully under 4.

 

Battle of the Billionaires

Donald Trump W/Lashley Vs Vince McMahon W/Umaga

 

The levels of overbooking will be insane here. This match will be a well done trainwreck garbage match that the crowd will eat up as will the marks at home. As for a p.r standpoint, Donald getting his head shaved off would be monumential but the probability of that happening isn't really all that likely. Lashley and Umaga work well in these environments, so that is a plus for them. How long goes this go is up in the air. Between the two actual workers, it shouldn't surprass 12 minutes but given the hype and spectacle of the billionaires, it could stretch out longer. I expect Lashley to win with some sort of sick spot. McMahon gets shaved and a beer fest follows.

 

Yep. I would put the tag turmoil match after this if it happens, with London/Kendrick vs WGTT in the last match going atleast 5 mins.

 

New Breed Vs Originals

 

This gets the quick time filler spot between the BotB and the title match main events. If they keep RVD and Burke involved, this should be fine. Sandman will probably be quite over as well. ECW really needs something big to push the brand and that is turning RVD. We've gone over this many times. RVD is likely going out the door and the best use of him is to put over someone in a big way and that's CM Punk. RVD-Punk is a gold mine program and right now, Punk is a top babyface for WWE and if they can use Punk to bury RVD out the door, they will. With all the teasing about Punk possibly joining, RVD does the turn here in order to "save his job" setting up the obvious and simple Punk-RVD program.

 

I don't think RVD will turn at Mania, but if he does it would be cool.

 

Shawn Michaels Vs John Cena

 

This will be a great match. These two always come up big time on this type of stage and they have such great chemistry together as well. The crowd response as usual will fuel this match. This will go 20-25 minutes and Cena is going over but the finish should be interesting. If Edge was going over, I'd actually do the double title change with HBK winning by miracle pin only for Edge to cash in on the spot and win the title but that isn't happening.

 

I still think having Edge cash in here and take the belt 5 mins after HBK wins it would be the best idea. I say let HBK/Cena go 30+. Add Helms vs Chavo vs Yang after this match, with Yang getting the win in about 7 mins.

 

Undertaker Vs Batista

 

This is the main event and it'll go 15 minutes but Undertaker will have a very extended entrance. Batista isn't going over but the curious booking will be how strong he goes down.

 

If Batista wins, especially in the last match of the night, I'll be so pissed off it's ridiculous.

[razazteca 0]

I'm under the opinion that the only way to make a Khali match look half way decent was if they made the match a dog collar chain match with the stip that the winner has to touch the four corners.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Khali/Kane should be a Brody/Abdullah-esque bloodbath.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I've said it before and I'm not above repeating myself. Ending Taker's streak doesn't mean nearly as much as people make out.

 

People who think that one win over The Undertaker is going to turn someone into a bona-fide superstar alone is off their head. It'll give them a temporary boost, sure. But you could say the same thing about Chris 'First Undisputed Champion In History' Jericho. At first it was special, but when there was no follow-up to it, it became a meaningless tagline, growing gradually more meaningless with every year it kept being brought up. WWE expected that alone to make Jericho a star. It didn't. Neither would ending Taker's streak.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Khali/Kane should be a Brody/Abdullah-esque bloodbath.

Did Khali ever blade or bleed at all during his Last Man Standing match with The Undertaker?

 

Or at ANY point in his feud with The Undertaker, for that matter?

[razazteca 0]

All I remember was Undertaker taking one of Khali's chops and selling it like death....I nearly died laughing. And I also remember Khali getting taken out of his own gimmick bamboo cage match the day of the event for whatever reason. If they didn't have faith in him then why exactly his he at wrestlemania?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Rob Conway is going to return to help Lashley win, paying off his on-screen firing.

[humanoid92 0]

I've said it before and I'm not above repeating myself. Ending Taker's streak doesn't mean nearly as much as people make out.

 

People who think that one win over The Undertaker is going to turn someone into a bona-fide superstar alone is off their head. It'll give them a temporary boost, sure. But you could say the same thing about Chris 'First Undisputed Champion In History' Jericho. At first it was special, but when there was no follow-up to it, it became a meaningless tagline, growing gradually more meaningless with every year it kept being brought up. WWE expected that alone to make Jericho a star. It didn't. Neither would ending Taker's streak.

 

This is right on the money. In theory, yes, it seems like ending Taker's streak is a great way to give someone a rub. But the way WWE goes about making "new stars" these days, they rely on these theoretical rubs too much. Sure, in theory making Randy Orton the legend killer and putting him over everybody on his way up will give him a rub. In theory, making him "the youngest Champion ever" will give him a rub. In theory, going over HHH at WM will give Benoit or Batista a huge rub. In theory, putting Chris Jericho over Rock and Austin in the same night will give him a rub. In theory, anyone that beats Mick Foley will get a rub. In theory, anyone who ever beats Michaels or Flair will get a rub. In theory, booking Lashley into this Billionaires match will give him a rub. But how often does it really work out that way? There's a difference between getting a rub and moving up the card (like Lashley is now) and really being put over onto a higher echelon. For a push to be truly effective, it has to be built up properly, executed properly AND followed up on properly. Not to mention the right combination of cooperation from those involved, the right timing, and general good fortune. You can't just plug Wrestler A into a cookie-cutter feud with Legend B and have Wrestler A win and expect it to work. The only thing that does is give Wrestler A a cookie-cutter push. It sounds like it's a great way to elevate new people, but it's not. The way they book sometimes, it's like they go with what looks good on paper or sounds logical in a vacuum. They rely too much on the names and the situations and forget what made names and situations special in the first place.

 

Everyone that wants X to go over Taker to end the streak automatically assumes that it will give X a major rub, but that's not necessarily the case. Of course it could be the case. It could work great. But only if they pull it off right, which is much easier said than done. Taker's streak is just one example of many, where it looks and sounds like a reasonable way to give someone a rub, but the execution of pulling it off is a more difficult task than it appears.

[bradolson 0]

Anyone think Taker might win via DQ or countout? The match keeps getting billed as "title vs streak" but Batista could retain while keeping Taker's streak intact for another year.

[Black Lushus 0]

the fans will totally shit themselves on that one!

[AntiLeaf33 0]

Anyone think Taker might win via DQ or countout? The match keeps getting billed as "title vs streak" but Batista could retain while keeping Taker's streak intact for another year.

 

don't even fucking joke about that. I'm planning on ordering the PPV with a few friends, and there is no way I want to see the main event of a $50 PPV end in a bullshit endning like that

[razazteca 0]

Save your money for the rematch at Backlash

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

EHME, why do you say MVP "dragged Kane to good matches"? Glenn Jacobs is not exactly a poor worker by any means.

I'm going to have to disagree, I can't think of one match where Kane came anywhere close to looking like a decent worker.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

EHME, why do you say MVP "dragged Kane to good matches"? Glenn Jacobs is not exactly a poor worker by any means.

I'm going to have to disagree, I can't think of one match where Kane came anywhere close to looking like a decent worker.

 

vs Benoit in 04 for the title..Vengeance was it?

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Badd Blood, I think.

[yankovic fan 0]

Anyone think Taker might win via DQ or countout? The match keeps getting billed as "title vs streak" but Batista could retain while keeping Taker's streak intact for another year.

 

don't even fucking joke about that. I'm planning on ordering the PPV with a few friends, and there is no way I want to see the main event of a $50 PPV end in a bullshit endning like that

 

 

I was actually forming the same idea after reading through all the posts, it kind of just struck me.

 

It is a dynamic to consider.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Predictable Card:

 

Benoit over MVP.

Khali over Kane.

Edge up in MITB.

New Breed over Originals.

Lashley over Umaga.

Ashley over Melina.

Cena over Michaels.

Taker over Batista.

 

Man, the undercard SUCKS and the 3 mains could go anywhere from Bad-Good-Bad to Fun-Great-Okay, IMO.

 

It's a shame such a bad card got such great hype and TV.

[Silence 0]

Anyone think Taker might win via DQ or countout? The match keeps getting billed as "title vs streak" but Batista could retain while keeping Taker's streak intact for another year.

 

That sounds exactly like something WWE would do. Better hope they're not reading this.

[KingPK 0]

Da Meltz:

 

--In the last major angle before Wrestlemania, this afternoon at the final Wrestlemania press conference at Trump Towers, Donald Trump and Vince McMahon got into it with Trump giving Vince a billionaire bitchslap causing security to rush in. All of this should air on Smackdown on Friday night. They needed the one final week angle for that match just to make sure it didn't peak early. There is an AP story that is running everywhere stemming from this, with quotes from Trump.

 

This was just on the news. I half expected the crowd to break out into a "Jerry! Jerry!" chant because of Vince's overselling.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

It also made #8 on the Sportscenter top 10.

 

hmm