OAO WrestleMania 23 Thread-April 1st, 2007

[Hawk 34 0]

Random Question....

 

 

 

 

Who's worse.....seriously....Giant Gonzales or Khali?

 

Well, as Giant Gonzales is permanently confined to a wheelchair and i believe, destitute, I would say the guy who played Giant Gonzales is much worse..off.

 

But wrestling-wise, Khali doesn't wear a fake muscle body suit with/without fake hair, so Gonzales is worse.

 

El Gigante wasn't a bad face at all. Sure, he couldn't work worth a shit but he was good in that big tall goofy good guy role. Khali, has a slight edge in that he's more physically imposing and doesn't seem like he'll break so easily.

[The Niggardly King 0]

The fucked up Stunner on Trump really missed up his comb over, but a man that aware of his gimmick fixed it right before he fell on the mat.

[Si82 0]

Why have so many people made mention of Edge's Wrestlemania winning streak? It's not like it's been played up on TV or the event itself by the announcers. Sure, they mention he's never lost at Wrestlemania but that's it. They don't harp on about it. Yet, a number of people on the board seem to think it's important and needs to be kept intact. The question I have is why? I don't think it means anything.

 

Undertaker's mean something because of the amount of time he's been around but even that is never going to pay off into anything as I doubt he's going to lose at Wrestlemania. The only thing that achieves is to made Undertaker's Wrestlemania matches even more predicable that they already are. I mean, he rarely faces anyone who is a legitimate threat at the show most years.

[Hawk 34 0]

Edge spent the entire month putting over his streak at WM and his dominance in ladder matches, as did the announcers on all three brands and even during the match, it was put over by JBL.

 

Undertaker's streak didn't really exist until WMX7. Before that, it just so happened he hadn't lost yet after years of beating JTTS, monster of the months or guys on their way out. Kane was the first major WM for Taker but the focus was about their long running feud. When WMX7 rolled around, that's when the streak came into play because HHH was the first legitimate threat to beat Taker at WM. Followed with a slightly significant victory over Flair, he ran over A-Train and TBS at XIX. Beating Kane at XX was given slight consideration but nothing serious but it holds relevance for being UT's lone repeat victory at WM. Orton was the biggest threat and probably of all the people at the time, could have used that win more then anyone else. People seemed to have thought being 6-0 vs 15-0 would have been enough reasoning to do Taker/Edge next year, ignoring that these two are big enough stars on their own.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I think Diesel would have been the first significant opponent for Taker had we not known he was going to be gone in a month. Even then that was Taker's first big time Wrestlemania match. The streak has been pushed since at least Wrestlemania XIII against Sid, but it has become an even greater focus in recent years.

 

No matter how they spin it though, Edge's streak is dead. He lost, plain and simple. It wasn't a pinfall or submission loss, but based on the rules of the match it was legitimate. Continuing to mention it would be as phoney as saying Shawn/Razor was the first ladder match in the WWF or that Bret Hart was undefeated in cage matches as of the one against Diesel at IYH.

[Hawk 34 0]

I think Diesel would have been the first significant opponent for Taker had we not known he was going to be gone in a month. Even then that was Taker's first big time Wrestlemania match. The streak has been pushed since at least Wrestlemania XIII against Sid, but it has become an even greater focus in recent years.

 

No matter how they spin it though, Edge's streak is dead. He lost, plain and simple. It wasn't a pinfall or submission loss, but based on the rules of the match it was legitimate. Continuing to mention it would be as phoney as saying Shawn/Razor was the first ladder match in the WWF or that Bret Hart was undefeated in cage matches as of the one against Diesel at IYH.

 

It's not like it really was that important to keep it. It was good for his character to utilize that aspect in the hype for this specific match. It was silly internet hope that he would use that for a purpose against Undertaker for WM24. Now, he can probably get by with the Shawn Michaels "big time performer on the big stage" element (given his 4 ladder matches, including a pair of famous spots), the most extreme WM match ever and of course, that epic shampoo war with Booker. As a bonus, he's actually won most of them. Something Michaels can't claim by any manner.

 

Andre wasn't undefeated for 15 years but it was still used to hype WM3 and it worked obviously in that regard. Granted, he didn't perform in a time where people sat and complained "Oh, but he jobbed on this date and that date five years ago! It's bullshit." as the performers do now.

 

Edge's WM legacy is still quite impressive given a 5-1 record, usually in a highlight match against some good names (Hardyz, Dudleyz, Benoit, Kane, Jericho, Booker, Foley), granted it doesn't hold the same value as it would in a straight environment but 1/2 of Undertaker's wins come off junk and it doesn't seem to hurt that legacy at all.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

My problem with Taker jobbing to Edge is that it would be rather pointless. Edge wouldn't really gain a rub from it unless he really falls off in the next year. He's pretty much got nowhere higher to go in the card than he is right now. His career's already been made.

[Hawk 34 0]

My problem with Taker jobbing to Edge is that it would be rather pointless. Edge wouldn't really gain a rub from it unless he really falls off in the next year. He's pretty much got nowhere higher to go in the card than he is right now. His career's already been made.

 

It has nothing to do with Undertaker jobbing or Edge jobbing. To me, this would essentially be just a high profile match that hasn't been done yet especially at a big stage. Edge wouldn't need a win since he always come back looking strong because he is an established top heel.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Hawk seems to overrate Edge's value. He's the top heel on Raw, but nowhere near the "top" in terms of WWE main eventers.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Hawk seems to overrate Edge's value. He's the top heel on Raw, but nowhere near the "top" in terms of WWE main eventers.

 

He's the #1 heel, but he's not a main eventer? I don't quite follow you.

 

He's never going to be HHH. Think of him as being in the Kurt Angle role where he can go back to the top of the show at any time.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Okay, here's my problem with the ending.

 

WrestleMania 12, Michaels faces Bret Hart and gets locked in the Sharpshooter right at the end of the match. The time runs down before he taps out, but he was in the hold for a good 20-30 seconds. WrestleMania 19, Michaels faces Chris Jericho. Jericho got the Walls Of Jericho on at least once after working the back all match and Michaels eventually gets to the ropes. WrestleMania 20, Michaels in the triple threat gets locked in the Crippler Crossface and manages to hang on until HHH makes the save. WrestleMania 21, Michaels faces Angle. As is customary, Angle half gets the Anklelock applied 6-8 times before finally getting a grapevine. Even then, Michaels hangs on for a good two or three minutes before calling it quits.

 

WrestleMania 23, Shawn Michaels taps out to an STF.

 

Sharpshoter, Walls Of Jericho, Crippler Crossface, Angle Lock, STFU. One of these is not like the others. That's my problem with the ending.

[Black Lushus 0]

oh man, if we disected wrestling THAT much, we could be here all night!

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

"Sharpshoter, Walls Of Jericho, Crippler Crossface, Angle Lock, STFU. One of these is not like the others. That's my problem with the ending."

 

The STFU is not like the others. It's obviously a more painful hold as Jesus Boy tapped relatively quickly.

[King Cucaracha 0]

oh man, if we disected wrestling THAT much, we could be here all night!

 

But, we do. It's TSM.

[RonL21 0]

Okay, here's my problem with the ending.

 

WrestleMania 12, Michaels faces Bret Hart and gets locked in the Sharpshooter right at the end of the match. The time runs down before he taps out, but he was in the hold for a good 20-30 seconds. WrestleMania 19, Michaels faces Chris Jericho. Jericho got the Walls Of Jericho on at least once after working the back all match and Michaels eventually gets to the ropes. WrestleMania 20, Michaels in the triple threat gets locked in the Crippler Crossface and manages to hang on until HHH makes the save. WrestleMania 21, Michaels faces Angle. As is customary, Angle half gets the Anklelock applied 6-8 times before finally getting a grapevine. Even then, Michaels hangs on for a good two or three minutes before calling it quits.

 

WrestleMania 23, Shawn Michaels taps out to an STF.

 

Sharpshoter, Walls Of Jericho, Crippler Crossface, Angle Lock, STFU. One of these is not like the others. That's my problem with the ending.

if it were the LionTamer..Then you'd be in Business..i see what you mean though...Im not a Cena hater...But he has the most non convincing finishing moves for a guy who's pushed as an Invincible champion

[RonL21 0]

"Sharpshoter, Walls Of Jericho, Crippler Crossface, Angle Lock, STFU. One of these is not like the others. That's my problem with the ending."

 

The STFU is not like the others. It's obviously a more painful hold as Jesus Boy tapped relatively quickly.

not really..Cena had the hold on for a while ..them shawn made it to the ropes...then at the end he had it on a while before hbk tapped..hardly quickly if you consider he was already in the hold a few minutes prior

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Hawk seems to overrate Edge's value. He's the top heel on Raw, but nowhere near the "top" in terms of WWE main eventers.

 

He's the #1 heel, but he's not a main eventer? I don't quite follow you.

 

He's never going to be HHH. Think of him as being in the Kurt Angle role where he can go back to the top of the show at any time.

 

That's my point. He's the #1 heel right now, but he could easily revert back into the midcard/upper midcard in the blink of the eye, as opposed to someone like Batista who people would not buy in the midcard. Edge is not that SOLIDIFIED as a main eventer. At least not to me.

[Black Lushus 0]

porter, my man, you've got to be one of the few then...

[Scroby 0]

Here's the issue with Cena's STFU. Its not that the move sucks, because its actually a great submission hold, but its how Cena uses the move.

 

1. Cena slaps on the STFU out of no where or he slaps it on after he hits the FU.

 

Here's the problem with that, he does nothing to work the leg, back, or neck. There's no logic in someone tapping out to it, the other guys neck, back, and legs haven't been worked over all match. You could say that maybe the guys back has been worked over because he's taken a few slams here and there throughout the match, but unless Cena works the back continuely during the match, there's no logic in tapping out to the move the first time slaps it on.

 

2. After Cena slaps it on, he just sorta...lays there, yelling.

 

Now here's the issue with that, he's doing nothing to make the submission look more painful. He's not making it look like he's cranking back on it or making any kind of effort to make it look more painful than it really is. Its not like he has to REALLY crank on the move to make it look more painful. If he just sold it better by yelling, sorta flexing a bit, and throw his head back to make it look like he's really cranking the move on, it would look more painful.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

I don't really think he should use it much at all... given that he only used it in the first place because he was put in a Submissions Only match against Chris Masters. Maybe if he works the back more and the FU doesn't finish someone off...THEN he can bust it out, but the way he's been using it now -- as just a follow up to the FU, just doesn't work for me. After the FU, the match should already be pretty much over, except maybe in big feud situations. But, if you have noticed with HBK -- the feud, if you can call it such, only really started on Monday.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I'll never forget watching the WM 22 DVD last summer and laughing my ass off when Cena put HHH in the STFU. The move didn't look painful in the slightest and Cena is just looking at the camera screaming "AHHHH!!!!!" It was one of the most ridiculous in-ring sequences I've ever seen in wrestling.

[Guest robrabies]

I'll never forget watching the WM 22 DVD last summer and laughing my ass off when Cena put HHH in the STFU. The move didn't look painful in the slightest and Cena is just looking at the camera screaming "AHHHH!!!!!" It was one of the most ridiculous in-ring sequences I've ever seen in wrestling.

 

 

At least the Sharpshooter, Crossface, and Ankle Lock look like they cant' be immediately and easily reversed. When Cena applies that hold, his own leverage would make it very easy to roll him over and force him to release the hold or get pinned.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Edge is too skinny and will always be a tag team wrestler to me. Plus his name sucks. He's really good at what he does, but he's not a top heel. He just happens to be one of the only heels on Raw, and he's funny.

[Ace Austin 0]

Edge also cuts exellent promos

[King Cucaracha 0]

2. After Cena slaps it on, he just sorta...lays there, yelling.

 

Now here's the issue with that, he's doing nothing to make the submission look more painful. He's not making it look like he's cranking back on it or making any kind of effort to make it look more painful than it really is. Its not like he has to REALLY crank on the move to make it look more painful. If he just sold it better by yelling, sorta flexing a bit, and throw his head back to make it look like he's really cranking the move on, it would look more painful.

 

Exactly! Orton's chinlock looks more punishing of a submission move because of how it's sold not just by the guy in the hold but the guy applying it.

 

When I compared it to the other submissions, it wasn't neccessarily on how 'good' of a move it is. That's a mute point, The Legdrop Of Doom and The People's Elbow were hardly 'good' moves in that sense. It's about credibility. Cena's been using it for at least a year now and nobody seems to buy it as a finishing move, no matter who he beats with it. There's plenty of reasons. The above is a good one.

[haVoc 0]

Edge is too skinny and will always be a tag team wrestler to me. Plus his name sucks. He's really good at what he does, but he's not a top heel. He just happens to be one of the only heels on Raw, and he's funny.

 

Edge out "heels" everyone on Smackdown and ECW as well. The only heel who gets more heat then Edge is Vince McMahon.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Edge's pre-WM Cutting Edge segment with all the MITB participants was one of the funniest promo spots I've seen in a while. His burn on Jeff Hardy had me in stitches.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The latest Observer says the real attendance for WM was 74,687 with about 68,500 paid. They obviously did not break the Ford Field attendance record as claimed, with the inflated attendance figure being a Vince call so as to make it appear like they did.

[RonL21 0]

Edge is too skinny and will always be a tag team wrestler to me. Plus his name sucks. He's really good at what he does, but he's not a top heel. He just happens to be one of the only heels on Raw, and he's funny.

6'5 240lbs is too skinny?

 

What has become of the world....

[RonL21 0]

The latest Observer says the real attendance for WM was 74,687 with about 68,500 paid. They obviously did not break the Ford Field attendance record as claimed, with the inflated attendance figure being a Vince call so as to make it appear like they did.

I don't buy this...80,000+ seems legit....the Detroit Free Press said at the beginning of the week that 76,000+ tickets were sold...the WWE also released standing room only tickets for $25....they could definetly sell 4000+ tickets for $25 a pop for an Event as Large as WrestleMania in a matter of days..

 

I believe that if no matter what Mania drew, Meltzer would say a lesser amount even though it's not that big of a deal