OAO WrestleMania 23 Thread-April 1st, 2007

[Atticus Chaos 0]

MICHAELS UNHAPPY WITH MATCH AGAINST CENA

 

-- Shawn Michaels was said to be extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena last night, screaming about how it sucked right when he got backstage. The spot after the match where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. A lot of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.

 

Meltzer on the Law

 

I just listened to law and I don't recall Meltzer saying anything of the sort.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Benoit vs MVP.

 

This is the first time seeing MVP, and was not impressed. Benoit carried his ass throughout the match, and should give a good chunk of his paycheck to him. I love technical wrestling, but when one of them can't carry a technical match, then it becomes very boring. Props to the Superplex/roll up, but thats about it. **1/2

 

Too harsh in my opinion. MVP did just fine, and I don't remember Benoit favouring his arm much at all. Another 5 or 10 minutes and it would have been much better, and shown MVP in a better light.

 

 

I'd like to know if redbaron51 had his eyes covered in the Benoit vs. MVP match, because MVP did a good job and was very nifty with the chain wrestling. He looked very solid, imo.

[Red Baron 0]

Benoit vs MVP.

 

This is the first time seeing MVP, and was not impressed. Benoit carried his ass throughout the match, and should give a good chunk of his paycheck to him. I love technical wrestling, but when one of them can't carry a technical match, then it becomes very boring. Props to the Superplex/roll up, but thats about it. **1/2

 

Too harsh in my opinion. MVP did just fine, and I don't remember Benoit favouring his arm much at all. Another 5 or 10 minutes and it would have been much better, and shown MVP in a better light.

 

 

I wasn't impressed though. Maybe if MVP had a bit more offence in instead of holds I might rate it higher, but I can't.

[Garth 0]

The Money In The Bank was a good fun match. The right man won in my eyes. 8 Men may have been too many though, there were long periods were you just didn't see people. I hardly remember Finlay doing anything in the match. There just wasn't enough time for all 8 of them to get a decent amount of screen time. Shame really.

 

How can you forget Finlay's head in blood, trying to climb the ladder but is completely in pain and damn near in tears until Hornswoggle runs out and Finlay has that "yeah! go boy!" look on his face like Lassie just showed up. Then after Kennedy kills Hornswoggle, Finlay goes nuts and even though he was in pain tried to take Kennedy out. Ending after the match with Finlay holding Hornswoggle almost crying. I thought everyone had their moment in this match.

 

Jeff and Edge obviously with the big spot (as well as Edge's spear fest). Matt was a total dick in the match telling Jeff to die and at the same time taking out his bitter rival and threatening to hurt Sharmell (this is something they need to continue, maybe a heel turn for Matt should be in the works). Punk had his spot with the step-ladder, was the only one to actually counter the spear and took the second biggest spot of the night and was essentially the runner up in the match and actually had the crowd going at the ending thinking he was about to win. Booker had a couple comedy moments specific with the step ladder reaction and his humanized moment with Sharmell. Kennedy shined here, obviously with his fantastic reaction to Hornswoggle and the following bump and his finish sequence with Punk. The only part I didn't like was that ladder turn but he obviously knew to turn it to the hard camera for the visual. It wasn't as dramatic as the first one with Benoit selling the fuck out of his arm injury and Edge being the dick throughout the night along with Benjamin's nifty leaps but it was quite ahead of last years which was the Flair spot, Benjamin's leap and a good pop for RVD.

 

Also, I just wanted to say while I agree with 52 on most, he's way off calling it a ***** match. From all accounts, that match wasn't even in the top 3 in Detroit that weekend.

 

I've rewatched since my original post and I'm glad I did. I really liked Matt threatening Booker with hurting Sharmell. Giving both Booker and Matt some depth to their characters.

Another near spot was Matt trying to do what he did to Mercury by setting up the ladders in the same way. There was a lot more going on with people than I initally gave it credit for definatly, although I still think 8 is too many, making it difficult to recall what everyone did.

[Downhome 0]

http://www.wwe.com/shows/wrestlemania/exclusives/todayshow2

[Robert 0]

Any idea what Michaels said to Cena during the match? I heard something, and then the audio went out for a bit.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Any idea what Michaels said to Cena during the match? I heard something, and then the audio went out for a bit.

 

Michaels is just being influenced by the smarks!

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

"Total b.s."

 

Meltzer's reply to me asking about the alleged LAW statement.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Benoit vs MVP.

 

This is the first time seeing MVP, and was not impressed. Benoit carried his ass throughout the match, and should give a good chunk of his paycheck to him. I love technical wrestling, but when one of them can't carry a technical match, then it becomes very boring. Props to the Superplex/roll up, but thats about it. **1/2

 

It's clear you have no clue on how to work to a match. Seriously are you blind, or retarded? MVP was the one dictating the pace and controlling the match for the most part, so how can Benoit "carry his ass"?

[Exslade ZX 0]

Holy shit....Vince really is Lex Luthor.

 

And for some reason I can totally see him using that in an on screen capacity in the near future.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Well as long as he doesn't steal 40 cakes. That's 10 times 4! And that's just terrible.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Well played.

[Guest TheJuice31]

Quick, meaningless star ratings for the show:

 

MITB: **** (I don't really come into these matches expecting much in the way of psychology, although I don't mind it's inclusion. This was entertaining as hell. Not as good as WM 21's, but better than WM 22's)

 

Kane/Khali: 1/2*

 

MVP/Benoit: *** (Very good up until the abrupt ending. As some have said, 5 more minutes and this would have been great)

 

Batista/UT: ***1/2

 

ECW: **

 

BOTB: **1/2 (* for the match itself, which was heatless and boring. *1/2 for entertainment value, thanks to Austin and Trump.)

 

Ashley/Melina: DUD

 

Cena/HBK: ***3/4 (The knee work kinda dragged on, with not much variety. Cena's no selling didn't help either. But hot damn, that final stretch was great stuff.)

 

Kinda pissed that they did practically the exact same ending two years in a row. Seems kinda lazy. I would have been perfectly contempt with Cena doing that Super FU that was hinted at for a brief moment to finish it (just something new for a change). Has there ever been a time in which the champion has retained his title in two consecutive Wrestlemania main events?

[Atticus Chaos 0]

It doesn't appear there were any major injuries coming out of the show last night. For those concerned, Edge is OK. That spot was horrifying. He may be taking some time off, but we'll know more by tomorrow.

 

 

f4wonline.

[luke-o 0]

Hawk52, i know you wanna play the "Cena rules, if u dont like him fuck off" card,

 

But giving that match 5 stars is fucking ridiculous.

 

I would like to know what constitutes a ***** match for you then. This had LAYERS of psychology, great work, a super hot crowd, and good spots. For the record, Cena DOES sell the knee. He shakes it during his big comeback. Not everyone is a Benoit or Savage. Selling it to that extent is more then 90% of the wrestlers in the world do, and need I remindyou that someone like Angle NEVER EVER sold leg/arm work and yet people ROUTINELY gave him MOTYC honors. Explain that to me.

 

For the record I give it ****3/4 right now.

 

See AJ Styles/Christopher Daniles/Samoa Joe at TNA Unbreakable 2005. THAT was a great match from START to finish, not just a good techincal exchange at the end and 10 mins of knee work that doesnt matter later on.

 

THAT was a five star match.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Hawk52, i know you wanna play the "Cena rules, if u dont like him fuck off" card,

 

But giving that match 5 stars is fucking ridiculous.

 

I would like to know what constitutes a ***** match for you then. This had LAYERS of psychology, great work, a super hot crowd, and good spots. For the record, Cena DOES sell the knee. He shakes it during his big comeback. Not everyone is a Benoit or Savage. Selling it to that extent is more then 90% of the wrestlers in the world do, and need I remindyou that someone like Angle NEVER EVER sold leg/arm work and yet people ROUTINELY gave him MOTYC honors. Explain that to me.

 

For the record I give it ****3/4 right now.

 

See AJ Styles/Christopher Daniles/Samoa Joe at TNA Unbreakable 2005. THAT was a great match from START to finish, not just a good techincal exchange at the end and 10 mins of knee work that doesnt matter later on.

 

THAT was a five star match.

 

This isn't going to end well.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I enjoyed the show. I watched it with a friend so between us it was only $25 apiece. A few thoughts.

 

Money In the Bank: Completely entertaining throughout, with two truly memorable spots (Jeff/Edge and Kennedy/Hornswaggle). I'm surprised not many people made reference to Bundy at WM III, since it seemed like a callback to that moment. I don't think Kennedy is big enough to become the world champion yet, but he will be. There is just some aura about him.

 

Khali/Kane: Khali is extremely limited in the ring. That said, they gave these guys five minutes, they did not blow anything and Kane's bodyslam was another memorable moment. This really was not a bad match by any stretch. Like it or not, Khali is special. I do think Kane should get a title run after he comes back from surgery.

 

Benoit/MVP: It's tough to get the crowd into a new character like MVP for 20-25 minutes, so I don't have an issue with the length. As I'll talk about later, sometimes you lose out by stretching matches as long as you can. MVP was made to look like a legitimate wrestler who can hang in the upper card, so mission accomplished.

 

Undertaker/Batista: Not much to add on this, both guys did a great job. I do think it is silly to complain about match placement. Does it really matter in the long run?

 

ECW Originals/New Breed: Sometimes you have a wrestler who can't hide his enthusiasm. DDP at WM XVIII and Tommy Dreamer this year. I wouldn't call this match a letdown but there was far less going on than I expected. Did Kevin Thorn even get tagged in?

 

Umaga/Lashley: This was the disappointment of the night, IMO. Let's review Lashley's win for a second. Umaga had Lashley beat with the help of Shane McMahon. Austin pulls out Shane, and then stuns Umaga. So Lashley has Austin's help. Vince got hosed. Umaga didn't have any more help than Lashley did. The only entertaining part of this was Umaga twice nailing Austin.

 

Ashley/Melina: I've stated before that Ashley is the most useless female wrestler in recent memory. She's not interesting and the fans responded accordingly.

 

Cena/Michaels: Honestly, I didn't think about Cena not selling the leg until after the match. The last ten minutes had me and my friend on the edge of our seats, and to suggest the match was bad is ludicrous. The match did illustrate one problem I have with WWE main events/big matches these days. The first 10-15 minutes are entirely useless. The going method isn't to build a great match from start to finish, it's to design a memorable close, decide how long the match is and then bridge the gap to that point in the match. At least that is my impression.

 

As for the Cena hate, get over it. Your favorites will not always win. The object of wrestling is not to apportion wins and losses based on workrate.

 

Slick and co. Dancing: In past Wrestlemanias they would bring out the divas, waste 10-15 minutes in the ring. They confined this to five minutes and honestly, it was really, really funny.

 

Trump/Boogeyman: Was anyone else waiting for Jim Cornette to come in and slap Trump? Just wanted to add that.

 

Overall I give the show 4/5. It had a few memorable moments and it was never really boring. If parts were crap, at least they were entertaining crap.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Kinda pissed that they did practically the exact same ending two years in a row. Seems kinda lazy. I would have been perfectly contempt with Cena doing that Super FU that was hinted at for a brief moment to finish it (just something new for a change). Has there ever been a time in which the champion has retained his title in two consecutive Wrestlemania main events?

 

Hogan at Wrestlemanias 2-3.

[Black Lushus 0]

waaaaait a tick...SLICK was there? DANCING? was it to Jive Soul Bro??? Fuck ME for not getting this thing!

[Red Baron 0]

Benoit vs MVP.

 

This is the first time seeing MVP, and was not impressed. Benoit carried his ass throughout the match, and should give a good chunk of his paycheck to him. I love technical wrestling, but when one of them can't carry a technical match, then it becomes very boring. Props to the Superplex/roll up, but thats about it. **1/2

 

It's clear you have no clue on how to work to a match. Seriously are you blind, or retarded? MVP was the one dictating the pace and controlling the match for the most part, so how can Benoit "carry his ass"?

 

 

MVP did nothing other than one spot.

 

Oh and working Benoit left arm, kinda pointless if you are barely using it to the advantage.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

Benoit vs MVP.

 

This is the first time seeing MVP, and was not impressed. Benoit carried his ass throughout the match, and should give a good chunk of his paycheck to him. I love technical wrestling, but when one of them can't carry a technical match, then it becomes very boring. Props to the Superplex/roll up, but thats about it. **1/2

 

It's clear you have no clue on how to work to a match. Seriously are you blind, or retarded? MVP was the one dictating the pace and controlling the match for the most part, so how can Benoit "carry his ass"?

 

 

MVP did nothing other than one spot.

 

Oh and working Benoit left arm, kinda pointless if you are barely using it to the advantage.

Okay, this bit I don't get; he did use it to his advantage. The point of MVP doing arm work was not so that he could get a submission, it was so that Benoit couldn't apply the Crossface... and he succeeded.

[Red Baron 0]

But he did nothing on offence with it. If he was going to win the title, he should have used more offence on the shoulder/arm than getting trapped into almost submission.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

waaaaait a tick...SLICK was there? DANCING? was it to Jive Soul Bro??? Fuck ME for not getting this thing!

Not to Jive Soul Bro. Essentially they ran a bit with Cryme Tyme and Eugene, with CT encouraging Eugene to dance with three young ladies. Eugene seemed more enthralled with Mae Young and Moolah in similar outfits on the side. Then Slick shows up and starts. From there we got Dusty Rhodes, Gerald Brisco, Pat Patterson, Sgt. Slaughter, Ricky Steamboat, Irwin R. Schyster, and a couple others. All that topped off by Ron Simmons showing up and saying "Damn."

[razazteca 0]

For a second there IRS looked like he was the MitB winner and Steamboat did the cliche karate pose.

[Hawk 34 0]

While I was supposed to have the day off, I still came in to get my paycheck. While I was there, a couple guys came in and the talk got to WM and the general consensus from a group of 30+ year old guys was that they loved the show and thought Cena was fantastic and "cool". One even said that it was a joke that Michaels was even in the main event. I asked about Punk and they each said "he got a good look to him and he took some good shots".

 

They did agree that Undertaker/Batista was the best match and completely hated the divas match. One even surprised me by saying "Mickie should be wrestling instead". Two 30+ year old guys who probably never heard of the internet liked Cena, Mickie and Punk. Strange.

[cabbageboy 0]

My point is this with Cena. They desperately need to put someone else in the title scene on Raw because the way it looks now they have exhausted all the intriguing title possibilities. If they keep pushing Cena this hard in spite of what quite a few fans think, he's going to end up like Bob Backlund circa 1983. Then come 2010 he'll have zilch left in the tank whatsoever.

 

I haven't seen the show a 2nd time but here are my star ratings based on last night:

 

Money in the Bank: ***3/4. I thought this was really good, but to be honest it has to be the weakest of the 3. The Hardys/Edge spot will live forever, but maybe there were too many guys here and maybe even too little actual action considering the 8 guys. And frankly, Kennedy is an inferior winner when you compare him to Edge and RVD.

 

Kane vs. Khali: *1/2. What the hell, it wasn't all that bad. Made Khali look vicious, so it did its job.

 

Benoit vs. MVP: ***1/2. Enjoyed the hell out of this match, as MVP showed more here than he has to date. If this is done again on a SD PPV and given 20 mins., it could be **** or so.

 

Batista vs. Undertaker: ****. Batista brought the working boots and had his best non gimmick match here. The powerslam on the ECW table was great, the last few minutes were full of dramatic near falls (without seeming like pandering such as the main event). And of course UT winning was a markout moment.

 

ECW Originals vs. The New Breed: **1/2. The action here was quite good but the match itself was too short to be anything great. Much like Benoit and MVP this needs about 20 minutes on an ECW TV show or maybe ONS and also has to be a hardcore match. I added the extra 1/2 since I'm VERY glad the Originals went over.

 

Umaga vs. Lashley: *1/2. This was a real misfire. It was misjudged in almost every aspect. Lashley and Umaga weren't over, it was very predictable, and Austin was a real busybody and was ultra annoying. Why the hell is Steve Austin of all people so concerned about enforcing rules? Hell with the UT/Kane match in 1998 he let them kill each other. With Brock vs. Goldberg he let them just suck and do whatever. Shane's run in also didn't draw much of a reaction, as he was mostly an afterthought in this angle.

 

Melina vs. Ashley: DUD. Typical crap women's match. Ashley had no business even being there. Move on.

 

Michaels vs. Cena: ***. It wasn't the amazing classic Hawk52 or Scott Keith said, but it wasn't a ** crapfest either. HBK did bust out some nice spots like the moonsault onto Cena and the announce table. Also the piledriver on the steps was vicious. But really now, the match dragged big time and had a dreary pace and as many have noted Cena's selling of the leg was gone later in the match.

 

Remember this: Just because a match is a WM main event and goes about 30 minutes doesn't mean it's all that good.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Remember this: Just because a match is a WM main event and goes about 30 minutes doesn't mean it's all that good.

 

Fair enough but the last 10 minutes were the most into a match I've been in ages (well I guess the end of the 07 Rumble, but this was more). I'm sure being there was part of it, but I imagine if I was watching it with a group of friends it would have had a similar effect.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

"--A fan hit the ring just as the Michaels vs. Cena match was starting. He started to take his clothes off. Ref Mike Chioda shoved him down. Michaels wanted to take a shot but Chioda stopped him. Michaels hopped on the turnbuckle. Chioda signalled for the bell but Michaels refused to start until the guy was gone, not wanting attention diverted from his match"

 

WO.com daily update (and not fakery like S_D's "I was pissed on IRC about Cena's leg no-sell so I'll make up a story about HBK being as mad as me" post).

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

This year's WM was a fine affair. The matches ranged from great to good to total DUD's.

 

MITB: A good opener, but while there were some great spots, I don't think it was as good or as spectacular as the previous two. I'd say it was in the ***1/2 range. The Edge/Jeff Hardy spot was insane, and the Matt Hardy/King Booker spot where Hardy threatened Sharmell and forced Booker to get down off the ladder might be the start of a program between the two, and it might hopefully see the end of the 'King' gimmick.

 

Great Khali vs. Kane: Not terrible, but a complete DUD. The fact that it didn't suck beyond belief is a miracle in itself, but that doesn't mean it was in any way good.

 

That backstage skit: Am I the only one who thought it was terrible and in no way funny?

 

Chris Benoit vs. MVP Couldn't tell you anything about the match because I had no interest in it at all and wandered off until it was over. I do know that MVP got no reaction coming out while Benoit got a tremendous reaction, which reminded me of his match with Orlando Jordan at Summerslam in 2005. That should be called the Orlando Effect.

 

Donald Trump/Boogeyman skit: It sucked.

 

The HoF clips: It seemed full of genuine emotion, and I'll stop at that.

 

Undertaker vs. Batista: This was was shockingly good, with Undertaker working hard to carry Batista and Batista managing to hold up his end of the match just fine. I wouldn't call it ****; I think, like with Khali/Kane, the fact it was so much better than people thought it would be made the match seem better than it really was. It was still a good match, though. I'd say in the ***-***1/2 range.

 

Tommy Dreamer & Sandman & RVD & Sabu vs. Elijah Burke & Marcus Cor Von & Matt Striker & Kevin A fair match, that was neither good nor bad. It was just there. The finish surprised me, and it looks like RVD is either staying or they're very confident he is.

 

Bobby Lashley vs. Umaga: Very awkward and nowhere as good as a match between these two could be, which I think you can blame on the storyline surrounding the match, because without the need to involve anyone else, I think Lashley and Umaga could have a very entertaining brawl. Umaga was kept stronger than Lashley, getting to lay out Austin twice, while Lashley had to sell for Shane.

 

Melina vs. Ashley: This was another 'match' that I had no desire to watch, so I went elsewhere.

 

John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels: A very good match, but not quite as good as some people have said it was, and I'd even go so far as to call it disappointing. I thought it was very good, like I said, but I was expecting something special from these two, and while they produced a strong match in the ***3/4 to **** range, it wasn't what I think they're really capable of. The first ten minutes or so was pretty boring, and I wasn't all that excited by it. As the match went on, it got better, and they really had the crowd going by the time they hit the home stretch and some of the counters and near falls were very well executed. I'm not shocked to see Cena win via the STFU, and while I can see why some people aren't happy with it, Cena is WWE's golden child and is going to be in the main event scene for a long time. It makes total sense for Cena to win on the biggest stage of the year. How they build the rematch will be interesting, because they can't build any more tension between the two without Shawn going full blown heel on Cena, and I don't see that happening.

 

All in all, a good WM. Not the best, but close to being one of the best.

 

EDIT: Did anyone else catch this piece of WM feedback on the Torch site:

 

Richard Gozinya of Sacramento, Calif. (1.0): Best Match: M.I.T.B. Worst Match: Cena-Michaels. As a TNA fan I can honestly say that I wasn't impressed with this show at all. I have never ordered a WWE PPV before, and after watching this drivel I will never do so again. Lashley is an extremely poor man's Brock Lesnar. Why was Steve Austin involved in that match? From a logic standpoint, he has history with Vince McMahon and couldn't possibly be impartial. Cena-Michaels was laughably bad. How are you helping your champ by having him sell chops from an old, skinny dude? The crowd (who had been bored to tears by this point) were dying for anything to cheer for at this point and didn't receive it. If you want some cutting edge wrestling, order Lockdown. You won't be disappointed.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

This was a really good PPV that was worth about 40 of the 50 bucks I'll spend when I get the bill.

 

MITB - Killing midgets ALWAYS gets a thumbs up from me and the right guy won. Seems they are going to build something with Mr. K. which I approve of. Two guys actually STAYING injured for the remainder of the match is a new one, so no "Hero Flair" moment like last year. Lots of good hard work from everyone. ****

 

Kane/Khali - Well they didn't fuck up. They still don't seem to have much direction for Khali. Don't you think they should have made a bit more of the RAW vs. SD angle here? *3/4

 

Benoit vs. MVP - I was impressed as MVP really stood up to be noticed here. This played really well in that "Young upstart who nearly pulls one out on the vet... but not today kid" kind of way. ***

 

Taker/Batista - MOTN right here as they blew everyone away with how good this was. Say what you will about big Dave. He has no friends anymore but he REALLY wanted to have a great match here. Thankfully, he was in there with Taker. That dive over the top scares me every time.

 

ECW - I don't watch ECW anymore so I am kinda lost on the storyline. Needed more Sandman. **

 

Lashley/UMAGA - I think I saw this match a couple times before when it was called Vince vs. Shane and Vince vs. Hogan. **1/4

 

Melina/Ashley - Piss break match and thats what I did. Awful. DuD

 

Cena/HBK - Not sure where this hate is coming from for this match. If the match was a bit slow but ended as the hottest match of the year so far it doesn't make it pointless it just means it has a direction. MOTY so far. Period. ****1/2