OAO WrestleMania 23 Thread-April 1st, 2007

[NoCalMike 0]

I figured HBK had a more then good chance to win the title tonight once HBK came out to his DX music.

 

I thought the way it was going to go down was, HBK wins the title, then HHH comes back with a super face push,(still as part of DX though) while HBK slowly resents Triple H because HBK had to go through the process of winning the title all by himself when HHH was out of action, and suddenly HHH is back and he expects himself and HBK to once again be considered equals, so HBK turns sometime before Royal Rumble, then HHH wins the Rumble and then you get HBK vs. HHH to ME WM 24.

 

I guess though they can still do the same scenario, but it will be a "where were you when I needed you the most" angle...of course this means one of them wins the title at Summerslam or Survivor Series, or even Rumble.

 

I'll tell you my problem with Cena, it's the fact that the guy defines generic. A big Main Event match like tonight, where Cena has to play the role of the reeling face that has to "defy the odds" comes off lame because John Cena has no entertaining offense. The guy basically took a beating for twenty minutes and then on three seperate occassions just hits a move or two and then goes for the F-U. Lets reverse roles here, if HBK was the face making the comeback, in otherwords the guy that is booked to be cheered for, then the match probably turns out a hell of a lot better. Cena is much more fitted to be in the role of the bruiser, who punches, kicks and slams his opponent around with generic power moves for ten or so minutes, while letting his opponent make the cunning comeback, especially in a face vs. face match involving one of the best workers of the past 20 years. The match wasn't horrible, but you could tell that the crowd is not going to buy into Cena making these "comebacks" that involve a mere punch/kick and then right into an F-U. Cena really needs to work on learning more setups and transitions that amount to some kind of credible offense, because right now, to anyone with the slightest understanding of what changes a match from being decent, into good/great, a Cena match, no matter who it is with, will never be anything special to watch.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

I'm going to give my thoughts on the show, and ignore about four pages of this thread after my post. I'm not going to try and convince you that Cena's one of the best in WWE, that him going over Shawn was perfectly fine, and that if one smark leaves the WWE over Cena, four marks will be drawn by him...it's a dull topic. Nor will I tell you that Cena's booing is nothing more then something the fans have involved themselves in, like the "what" chants. Cena still draws. He still sells insane merchandise, and he's only going to more popular. Not worth the effort. If you've closed off your mind that much to John Cena, then enjoy it. Cena turning heel would be an astronomically bad idea right now, and if you can't understand that then whatever.

 

MITB: I was actually kind of disappointed in this. After the Jeff/Edge spot it kind of seemed to lose it's speed, like it was planned but it still messed them all up. Matt taking Sharmell hostage was one of the best spots of the entire night I thought. I did like how they teased the Hardy Boys ladder see-saw spot, which I'm sure absolutely NO ONE wants to take anymore. Some of the matches had weird pacing, and I think this was one of them. They teased the ladder spots in the early going, then once the ladders came in play it just seemed like it was a road runner cartoon with no stop for breathing. I expected a little more from it, I think.

 

Kane/Khali: Meh. Twas what was expected of it, really. Saddly, no one got stabbed.

 

Benoit/MVP: I was LOVING this until the abrupt finish. This was another match with weird pacing. They built up the counter wrestling for a significant portion of time, with some very nice exchanges and then right when the match seemed to be getting in gear for a five, ten minute finish spree...it ended. I'm confident with more time, these two will produce some great matches.

 

UT/Batista: This was the big surprise of the show. Batista came to work tonight, and really did his share of the workload. UT, of course, showed why he's a "big match player" and really excelled with some awesome work. I liked how the further into the match they went, the more aggressive Batista became like he was reverting right before our eyes back into his "Demon" era style. Some good spots, including the tope suicida, announcer table powerslam and Batista just tossing UT through ringside objects including the ringbell table for a good visual. Ending was hot as hell, and UT going over was a good moment for the show.

 

ECW/NB: Meh. They could have probably gotten something good had they had a few more minutes, and been allowed to use weapons but it was alright for what it was. Nothing bad, nothing good.

 

BOTB: This was THE big disappointment of the night for me. I went out on a limb with my prediction, and I really paid for it. Umaga tried to carry Lashley, but the match was booked really awkwardly at the beginning, and Lashley wasn't peaking like he could have. They made Umaga look incredibly weak at the beginning of the match with a second rope shoulderblock killing him for some time while Lashley beat on Estrada for no reason. When Umaga took over, Lashley didn't sell Umaga's moves more then simply laying there, while Umaga sold everything Lashley did like he was being killed. Lashley is completely unable to connect to the fans through his in-ring work or his character, which makes "face-in-peril" spots not work at all. Once Umaga whacked Austin the match picked up, but when you look at it...it was really just a tool to get Lashley more over. He had Umaga, Shane, and Vince all working on him, or distracted him and without any help at all he overcame it and beat Umaga after a Stunner. Austin did more to put over Umaga by taking two Samoan Spike's and being KO'd. Just...really disappointing, and I blame the booking and Lashley's inabilities in both charisma and ring-work.

 

Womans: I was surprised Melina retained. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Shawn/Cena: This was a flat out great match. Everything about it was great. Shawn's cocky attitude at the begging giving way to sheer desperation near the end. Cena's worry turning into a burning desire to win. Shawn working heel, then Cena working heel, then Shawn working heel to keep the fans unable to really do the token "BOO CENA" crap. The teases of the FU, SCM, and STFU were really nice and the fact that Cena had a second finishing hold, while Shawn didn't proved to be the ace up Cena's sleeve again just like last year at WM. Cena's not a brawler, despite what they want to bill him as. Cena's an overall wrestler with good high flying abilities, good brawling, and decent to good technical abilities. Cena can really do ANY style of match now. Shawn was great in the match, selling everything that was going on including the disappointment at having to lose. They had some great exchanges, told a great story about a veteran in Shawn being unable to put away the newer Cena and included many nice spots like Shawn ramming Cena's leg into the post in the opposite direction you usually see, Cena countering the SCM with a Windham-style diving lariat, and the ringsteps Piledriver. The exchanges with Shawn desperately trying to kick Cena away from the STFU were great, and him BARELY surviving the hold despite being right next to the ropes really sold that the move could end it. When Cena got the second STFU, and proceeded to put INSANE tork on it (It's called Leverage, folks. Look it up.) you knew there was no way in hell Shawn was getting out of it but he still sold the small desperate glimmer of hope he had until he couldn't anymore. Just a flat out FANTASTIC match, that may have been better the second time around. ****3/4 to ***** and I do not feel sorry for saying that.

[Hoff 0]

My brief thoughts.

 

MITB: ***1/2. Very entertaining opener. All the guys hitting finish after finish was a crowd pleaser, and as an Orton fan I loved seeing three RKOs, then a SUPER RKO. It wasn't an epic psychological contest, but it was exactly what it should have been. People have been saying 8 guys is too many, but I actually preferred it, as it enabled more spots and gave guys more time to rest.

Kane/Khali: *, but that's not really a complaint. Given who they were they worked the right style of match. With a few more minutes and a little more fire, this could have been in the ** range for me. Basically, though, this was what it was. Don't expect Shakespeare from first-graders.

Benoit/MVP: ***. I wanted to like it more, but it was one-sided and lacked any real fire. MVP showed he can go, though, and the crowd reacted to him ("BALLIN!"), so it was a good night. Couple nice spots, and the arm psychology was great.

Batista/Taker: ***. I was pleasantly surprised. I hate the Taker, but he had his work boots on, and so even though I don't like his style, the match was a success. Batista haters need to chill. Dude is a power wrestler, he doesn't need to be deep. He hit his spots, and hit them well. Hot match.

ECW: *. I wanted it to be so much more, with RVD, Burke and Monty involved. But it pretty much sucked. Unorganized and hard to follow. * might even be generous, but it wasn't TERRIBLE, just bad.

Lashley/Umaga: * on the match, *** for entertainment value. Lashley and Umaga both have potential, but neither one is expereicned enough to lead or carry a match, and it showed. Parts were exciting, others were plodding. But the crazy overbooking worked here, as the match wasn't the real story anyway.

Melina/Ashley: 1/2*. I wanted to say DUD, but the finish was acceptable and there were a couple actual moves. But Ashley can't work and Melina has a LONG way to go. Keep her with Victoria, and keep Mickie with them. Mickie and Melina can learn from Victoria and then help each other, and we might make a wrestler out of Melina yet. Ashley is useless. Hot, though.

Cena/Michaels: ****1/4. Your first MOTYC. My only complaint is that they went to the "we're both spent but we're gutting it out" WAY too quickly. They had time to work a bit more. They started off SO hot, with a blend of brawling, mat wrestling, and storytelling (Michaels' dodging was awesome), but they went outside before they needed to and the match suffered. The Asai moonsault was insane, though. But that flaw hurt the match a lot for me. It's still head and shoulders above a standard **** match, but Michaels -- who I love -- needs to resist the temptation to get spotty too soon. He never used to have that problem, which is why he's the GREATEST EVER, EVER. Cena was aces here as well though, and he really knows how to finish. Great match.

[Enigma 0]

A match that involves someone working a leg for 10 minutes and then the victim selling the leg for a maximum of 30 seconds for the next 20 minutes is not a match of the year candidate.

 

John Cena's fucking ass needs to be locked in a room for 24 hours and forced to watch Flair/Savage from WM8 and learn how to sell a fucking leg injury. The way he totally disregarded that during the match was unbelievably stupid. That's probably why HBK got pissed in the match and yelled at him when Cena was slumped in the corner and they muted the ring audio with crowd noise.

[Mecca 0]

There are tons of matches that people think are great where someone didn't sell early match limb work.......

 

People like to shit on Cena cause he's Cena and they think it's the cool thing to do....

[luke-o 0]

Hawk52, i know you wanna play the "Cena rules, if u dont like him fuck off" card,

 

But giving that match 5 stars is fucking ridiculous.

[iggymcfly 0]

There are tons of matches that people think are great where someone didn't sell early match limb work.......

 

People like to shit on Cena cause he's got the biggest God push since Hogan's first WWF title run despite being a mediocre worker, having a very stale character, being booed by close to half the audience as a face champ, and the fact that he says at least one thing so stupid you feel embarrassed for him every time he handles a microphone.

 

FYP.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Seriously, even WM 22 was better than tonight's show. If Benoit and Undertaker lost, this would have been the worst Wrestlemania ever.

 

By the way, Batista / Undertaker being placed in the middle was fucking bullshit and Cena's entrance was awesome!

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Hawk52, i know you wanna play the "Cena rules, if u dont like him fuck off" card,

 

But giving that match 5 stars is fucking ridiculous.

 

I would like to know what constitutes a ***** match for you then. This had LAYERS of psychology, great work, a super hot crowd, and good spots. For the record, Cena DOES sell the knee. He shakes it during his big comeback. Not everyone is a Benoit or Savage. Selling it to that extent is more then 90% of the wrestlers in the world do, and need I remindyou that someone like Angle NEVER EVER sold leg/arm work and yet people ROUTINELY gave him MOTYC honors. Explain that to me.

 

For the record I give it ****3/4 right now.

[Si82 0]

People like to shit on Cena cause he's Cena and they think it's the cool thing to do....

I think there are plenty of people who shit on Cena because they simply don't like him.

 

Perhaps because WWE having been shoving the guy down the public's throat for a couple of years now.

 

That's why I do.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Okay...I really want someone to explain better why Cena/Michaels last night was great, because I fucking hated every second of it. In general, WM23 was a huge disappointment for me. I was expecting something fun and entertaining, and what I got was 2 good matches, a decent comedy fest, and the rest was filler and hogwash.

[Downhome 0]

Vince and Trump were just on The Today Show acting all buddy buddy, laughing it up saying they've made up and are friends again. Wasn't trying to hide his bald head either, and was acting proud of it and really showing it off. Just seemed weird for me to see that no more than 12 hours later.

[megaadvice 0]

Cena vs HBK could have been a million times better. Was it a bad match? No not at all, but they played it 100% wrong in the early stages, instead of spending 10 mins on the knee there should have been back and forth offense to get the crowd into it.

 

Last year Trips and Cena played to the crowd perfectly, this year HBK and Cena didnt even let the crowd get into it.

 

I acually think Batista/Taker was better, in terms of pacing their match and getting the corwd into it, if anything it could have done wioth an extra 5 mins

[Black Lushus 0]

How did UT/Batista compare to the other good UT WM matches: vs. Nash and vs. Orton?

[bob_barron 0]

I never liked Taker-Nash, but thought it was a little better then the match with Orton.

[Black Lushus 0]

I never liked Taker-Nash, but thought it was a little better then the match with Orton.

 

I thought it was good enough for what it was: Taker was still in Zombie offense mode and Nash was, well, Nash.

[Garth 0]

The Money In The Bank was a good fun match. The right man won in my eyes. 8 Men may have been too many though, there were long periods were you just didn't see people. I hardly remember Finlay doing anything in the match. There just wasn't enough time for all 8 of them to get a decent amount of screen time. Shame really.

 

Batista/'Taker was better than I expected. Undertakers streak never really seemed in doubt though.

 

Cena/HBK I didn't enjoy as much as I should have. Admittedly I'm not a fan of either mens characters, but they can both put on matchs that are very watchable when they want. They just didn't manage that last night. There was a few good spots like people have said, the Asai moonsault, the reversal sequences. The rest, bland and didn't go anywhere. If they'd gone out there and just thrown each other around and not really sold I would have understood and at least have enjoyed what I was watching but the long period of leg work and striking in the corner just killed big sections of the match dead. This is not me hating on the match for the sake of it, I really wanted to enjoy the match but just couldn't.

[humongous2002 0]

It sounds like a Wrestlemania with very predictable outcomes, is it good enough for me to order the playback or should I just wait for netflix?

[Downhome 0]

It sounds like a Wrestlemania with very predictable outcomes, is it good enough for me to order the playback or should I just wait for netflix?

 

You know what happened, the DVD comes out in a month or so.

 

Just wait.

[Downhome 0]

There was one hour and forty-one minutes of actual wrestling on the show, if anyone cares.

 

 

Here is the PWInsider report of what I mentioned earlier:

 

DONALD TRUMP AND BALD VINCE MCMAHON ON TODAY TALK ABOUT BEING FRIENDS AGAIN, POSSIBILITY OF A REMATCH AND MORE

by Brian Richey @ 10:00:00 AM on 4/2/2007

 

All of the hosts of Today were standing outside Rockefeller Center where fans of the previous guest Beyoncé were waiting for a live concert. They showed the clip of Trump attacking Vince at ringside last night and then showed it again in slow motion. They then welcomed both Donald Trump and Vince McMahon, who was wearing a Wrestlemania 23 ballcap. Obviously, Trump still had his hair and the hosts promptly took the hat off to reveal Vince's clean shaven head.

 

They put up a before and after graphic and one of the hosts mentioned that Vince had a bit of a shiner, to which Vince replied, "Trump's got a hell of a right hand." Trump said that they were now friends again despite not liking each other for the past few weeks. They showed a clip of Vince being shaved and Trump remarked on how he issued the challenge and that his guy Bobby Lashley is 'great.' Vince said that the whole ordeal was somewhat humiliating and confirmed the host's inquiry that a new Ford Field record had been set with 80,000 fans. Vince went on to say that entertainment is the most important thing and that Trump is very entertaining.

 

The hosts started to feel Trump's hair to see if it was indeed real and Vince asked for some scissors to confirm it. They put up a graphic of what Trump would look like bald, which was a lot better than the photoshop version Vince has been looking at for weeks. The hosts asked about a rematch and Trump said that Vince probably wants one and that, "We'll see." One of the hosts seemed to think he could take Trump and they joked about the smackdown that could take place at Wrestlemania 24.

 

They finished up by congratulating Trump on keeping his hair and Vince on the show overall. Al Roker did a small weather update and they put him in the after section of the before and after graphic. He told Vince he would get used to the feeling and Vince gave him his Wrestlemania hat as the segment ended.

 

Overall Vince seemed very happy and humble to be there and was very out of character. Trump seemed a little indifferent at the whole situation but then again when has he not in the past few weeks.

[Taker666 0]

Ulitmatly disappointed that I missed Wrestlemania because of work but why the FUCK was the World Title Match only mid-way in the show?!?!?!. Undertaker winning the World Title should of closed WrestleMania but instead got a repeat from last year with Cena retaining which is utterly ridiculas.

 

Anyways, I'am happy the right people went over last night except for Cena and Khali which were both unexcusible. And nonthing can make me more happier that Undertaker is finally the World Heavyweight Champion. Cena and Lashley can kiss my ass because now, SmackDown is where the true power lies now. Taker hasn't been Champion sence 2002 which is long overdue for someone who busted his ass as much as Taker. well, anyways. hes Champion now and lets hope this time, unlike is previous Title reigns, he has a nice long run as Champion.

[Red Baron 0]

Review:

 

Money in the Bank:

 

Solid. Pulled the spots nicely, but dangerous. I feel bad for the midget taking the rolling fireman carry from the Ladder. Edge seems legit hurt, and everyone pulled in nicely. Seemed weird without Shelton Benjamin. Glad to see Mr. Kennedy win though, and his nice little promo at the end. ***1/4

 

Kane vs Khali:

 

Bad 1/4*

 

Benoit vs MVP.

 

This is the first time seeing MVP, and was not impressed. Benoit carried his ass throughout the match, and should give a good chunk of his paycheck to him. I love technical wrestling, but when one of them can't carry a technical match, then it becomes very boring. Props to the Superplex/roll up, but thats about it. **1/2

 

Taker vs Batista:

 

From what I thought it was going to be boring as anything, it became fairly decent match. I'm surprised Taker landed the Last Ride, and Batista going on the top rope (which Michael Cole will now be on YTMND forever). **1/4

 

Lashley vs Umaga:

 

Did I expect this to be anything great? Not really, but it was entertaining. Shane-o-Mac coming out was surprising, and Austin interfering kept the pace up. **

 

The Originals vs The New Breed.

 

Short, quick, and easily forgettable. *1/2

 

Melina vs Ashley:

 

No exposed boob, and exposed how bad the WWE women's divison is. DUD

 

Cena vs HBK.

 

Solid match. Cena getting booed is nice, but everything was done well, and no botches. Great pyschology, timing and pacing. HBK with the obvious blade job hurts a bitch (could have used it at a different spot) but I was surprised to see HBK pull off the piledriver on the steps. If they could have made Cena a heel, they should have done it here I believe. ****1/4 and match of the night.

 

Overall. Good show, with a disappointment in the Benoit/MVP match.

[Hawk 34 0]

The Money In The Bank was a good fun match. The right man won in my eyes. 8 Men may have been too many though, there were long periods were you just didn't see people. I hardly remember Finlay doing anything in the match. There just wasn't enough time for all 8 of them to get a decent amount of screen time. Shame really.

 

How can you forget Finlay's head in blood, trying to climb the ladder but is completely in pain and damn near in tears until Hornswoggle runs out and Finlay has that "yeah! go boy!" look on his face like Lassie just showed up. Then after Kennedy kills Hornswoggle, Finlay goes nuts and even though he was in pain tried to take Kennedy out. Ending after the match with Finlay holding Hornswoggle almost crying. I thought everyone had their moment in this match.

 

Jeff and Edge obviously with the big spot (as well as Edge's spear fest). Matt was a total dick in the match telling Jeff to die and at the same time taking out his bitter rival and threatening to hurt Sharmell (this is something they need to continue, maybe a heel turn for Matt should be in the works). Punk had his spot with the step-ladder, was the only one to actually counter the spear and took the second biggest spot of the night and was essentially the runner up in the match and actually had the crowd going at the ending thinking he was about to win. Booker had a couple comedy moments specific with the step ladder reaction and his humanized moment with Sharmell. Kennedy shined here, obviously with his fantastic reaction to Hornswoggle and the following bump and his finish sequence with Punk. The only part I didn't like was that ladder turn but he obviously knew to turn it to the hard camera for the visual. It wasn't as dramatic as the first one with Benoit selling the fuck out of his arm injury and Edge being the dick throughout the night along with Benjamin's nifty leaps but it was quite ahead of last years which was the Flair spot, Benjamin's leap and a good pop for RVD.

 

Also, I just wanted to say while I agree with 52 on most, he's way off calling it a ***** match. From all accounts, that match wasn't even in the top 3 in Detroit that weekend.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Sounds like a tongue-in-cheek work. Kind of like how the WWE has worked their smarky fans into hating Cena so much that they'll pay to see him lose.

[mfn 0]

I honestly think that Taker/Batista was the best match of the show, much to my surprise. Either Batista really worked his ass off, or Taker just carried the shit out of him.

[LJSexay 0]

man. All I could honestly complain about are a few things:

 

* WHT match placement: half-way? Really? WHY? This is two years in a row that the Rumble winner's match is right in the middle, and while personally John Cena matches are not horrible by any stretch... Taker/Batista was just awesome, and deserved the final spot. bah

 

* Match times: some lagged, some were cut off so short, it was really strange.

 

* Women's Title match: I'm sure more could have been done to make it entertaining. bleh

 

* John Cena's miracle leg

 

but it's alright I suppose... MR KENNEDY WINS!!!!!!!

[Enigma 0]

MICHAELS UNHAPPY WITH MATCH AGAINST CENA

 

-- Shawn Michaels was said to be extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena last night, screaming about how it sucked right when he got backstage. The spot after the match where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. A lot of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.

 

Meltzer on the Law

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

 

From my local paper.

 

I had a great time being at the show (section 125, row 9, good seat!). To people complaining about the placement of the world title match, WrestleMania VIII/XIX/XX say "hey, remember us?". WM22 also says 'what's up'. Way off the the side of the stadium you could hear a bunch of people trying to start a "Let's Go Cena" chant, but nothing. Batista/Taker was way better than I thought it would be and the last minutes of HBK/Cena was the most dramatic match I've ever been to live. Awesome stuff. Yeah, Cena didn't sell the leg but all in all it was great work. Someone on the bus back to Canada was complaining about the show for basically the same reasons people here are but even he agreed Cena worked hard, he just wishes he was the hungry challenger and not the invincible champ. I really wanted Shawn to win too but I (and a lot of people) just applauded after the match. There were a lot of signs with things like "If Batista wins, we riot" / "14-1, we riot" though. I didn't see the Booker spot that everyone is talking about from my seat so I look forward to watching the DVD next month. In person, the video wall was HUGE. I see (sort of) what the meant about the 'morping set' as sometimes we would see lights lowering or the WM23 sign being raised (like to make room for the big X, which was cool). Kane's flaming pentagram (which I didn't even notice lower in) was up there with Burning NYC. Lashley had a giant shiloutte shadow fighting on the tron. The weird thing was with Taker and all those flames, there were sets of pyro going off at the very top of the video wall. I don't know if the viewing audience could those or if it was just extra fire for the audience.

 

"OMG SHAWN TAPPED OUT WORST WM EVER".

 

Christ, get over it people. I thought Benoit tapping out was the height of worthess complaining but thanks for proving me wrong.

 

It was a very cool atmosphere walking around Detroit and seeing all the media and people in their wrestling shirts. Nothing like any PPV I've gone to before. There were a lot of homemade t-shirts around - of the two I saw, one had a back with the 14 different match graphics from Undertaker's past Manias, and the other was "CENA SUCKS" on the front with a screencap of him getting the superkick on Raw on the back.

[muzz 0]

Benoit vs MVP.

 

This is the first time seeing MVP, and was not impressed. Benoit carried his ass throughout the match, and should give a good chunk of his paycheck to him. I love technical wrestling, but when one of them can't carry a technical match, then it becomes very boring. Props to the Superplex/roll up, but thats about it. **1/2

 

Too harsh in my opinion. MVP did just fine, and I don't remember Benoit favouring his arm much at all. Another 5 or 10 minutes and it would have been much better, and shown MVP in a better light.

[bob_barron 0]

Glad you had a good time Venkman.

 

I thought HBK was supposed to over bitching people out during matches and being unprofessional- some things never change.

 

They really need to start pushing Hardy now, he was the MVP of MITB