Chris Benoit Dead - Toxicology results released

[justcoz 0]

I just don't understand why a few people like justcoz keep defending the company. The WWE has clearly shone that they only care about their employees health AFTER something bad happens... and as soon as nobody's paying attention, they go right back to not caring. They never had drug tests until 1992 when the federal steroid investigation forced them to implement them. And then in 1996, incredibly, they GOT RID OF THEM. "Well, ratings are way down and we've got a thin roster... let's cut the drug tests!" And they never had more tests until Eddie's death once again got the public's eye on them, and pretty much forced them into doing so. And now the tests are a proven failure, because how can a guy who's real levels are 59/1, way way above the company's already-inflated "fail ratio" of 10/1, still pass the tests? If the company doesn't want steroid abuse, why the fuck do they push Lashley, who couldn't possibly get a body like that naturally?

 

 

Because the problem that we are talking about here is an INDUSTRY PROBLEM, not a WWE problem. Why should WWE be the only company in their form of entertainment that tests? And what is the point of testing and suspending or firing talent if they are just going to be grabbed up by smaller groups and competitiors regardless of their addiciton or abuse to their body? The deaths that we've witnessed over the past twenty years are not directly related to WWE. They are indicative of a personality problem of the talent within the professional wrestling industry. You can say, "well Vince McMahon likes big guys and that's why everyone is on steroids" but it's up to that individual to make a decision for themselves as to what compromises they are going to make to reach the top of their business. There are clearly examples of talent that have succeeded that didn't fall to that pressure. Vince also has a history of liking big fat guys - does that mean an indie worker has to eat themselves to Yokozuna, Rikishi or Umaga size to get a spot?

 

I also think that the people being critical of WWE are also discrediting and overlooking obvious things that the company have done to improve conditions for the workers. The dressing room has changed from the party scene it was in the 80's and 90's. The schedule is lighter. They preach a safer in-ring style and they pay to send guys to rehab, pay for surgeries, give people time off when needed, etc.

 

Yes, they look VERY BAD by being so lenient with this testing and the steroid level that they allowed, the prescription loophole, etc. but they thought that they could have their cake and eat it too. They thought they could monitor the health of their performers, know what drugs they are on, provide physicals, etc., while writing in little loopholes that would allow the talent to make their own choices when it came to putting on muscle, size, increasing performance, etc. They thought that they could make sure there was a 'safe level' of steroid usage among their workers and since they weren't a legitimate sport their numbers didn't have to be as tight since it wasn't a matter of competition advantage like the Olympics.

 

The fact that they do monitor what the talent is taking and provide cardiovascular testing is a HUGE thing. They just thought they could get away with the steroid loophole and a terrible, terrible tragedy happened, where one of the most beloved people in the business snapped and killed his wife and children. Nobody had a massive heart attack. Nobody overdosed in their hotel room. Someone had a domestic dispute and freaked the fuck out!!!!! And now suddenly they are put in a position where they are being held accountable for deaths that occurred in World Class, NWA, WCW, AWA, ECW, indies, etc. - all before they implemented this Wellness Program that everyone is scrutinzing now. When they are the only company in this business that HAVE ANY HEALTH MONITORING AT ALL.

 

In the 90's, they drug tested until they were nearly put out of business by a company where drugs were rampant, pay was better and the schedule was lighter and all of their talent - because of the PERSONALITY PROBLEM among wrestlers - figured they could get rich, travel less, party more and be more muscular. The WWE right now could have the STRICTEST POLICY EVER. They could fire talent every week. But as long as someone else like TNA, ROH or whoever, pick them up and let them work regardless of their condition, WRESTLERS WILL STILL DIE. The problem isn't solved.

 

 

 

[Jingus 0]

Of course WWE shouldn't be the only wrestling company to test their workers. TNA is much worse in this department. But WWE employs a lot more people, has been around a lot longer, and has repeatedly run into the same problem before. (Plus, aside from TNA, what other American fed could actually afford the tests?)

 

And "why should they test/fire people when the competition will just hire them" is the lamest argument ever. Why should the WWE care about what happens to an unrepentant addict if they refuse offers for help and fail the (easy to pass) test multiple times? THAT'S where personal responsibility comes in. And, like I said, it's weird how Angle is the only true top guy they've ever fired for drug use. What other publicly traded corporation in the country could an employee walk around the place of business smoking a goddamn joint in plain view and not only not get fired, but still get promoted into a top slot (Orton, Wrestlemania 22)? You could possibly make a case for guys like Warrior or Sid being top guys released over drugs, but they had all kinds of other crazy problems besides just da roids.

[Bix 0]

Has anyone ever actually gotten any sort of heart test done? You would think there have to be some guys with badly damaged tickers that would've been caught by now.

[Dangerous A 0]

And now suddenly they are put in a position where they are being held accountable for deaths that occurred in World Class, NWA, WCW, AWA, ECW, indies, etc. -

 

Unfortunately for WWE, that is a by-product of being the #1 promotion by a large margin and the face of professional wrestling when viewed by non-fans. Groups like TNA and ROH don't register on the mainstream media's radar because they are so small. Joe Average thinks TNA is still Tits n Ass and that the Ring of Honor is in Texas Stadium. If WCW were still around and this happened, there'd be a lot more blame going around than to just the McMahon family business.

[justcoz 0]

Of course WWE shouldn't be the only wrestling company to test their workers. TNA is much worse in this department. But WWE employs a lot more people, has been around a lot longer, and has repeatedly run into the same problem before. (Plus, aside from TNA, what other American fed could actually afford the tests?)

 

Everything you stated above is justification for the business being regulated. WWE does employ the most people and should test and give physicals - and they do - whether you like the guidelines or not - but the whole business needs regulated if it's a matter of no other company being able to afford drug testing or afford making sure their workers are healthy. Don't tell me Dana White wouldn't be crying foul if a bunch of unregulated Fight Club MMA shows started touring across the country, presenting 'ultimate fighting' and hiring talent that weren't allowed to fight in UFC for drugs or whatever. That is why HE WANTS REGULATION. And I don't follow UFC or MMA so if the above scenario already exists, forgive me.

 

I'd think highly of WWE if they pushed for industry regulation but they won't because Vince McMahon is a rebellious control freak who doesn't want someone, especialy government, breathing over his shoulder, telling him what to do. So the only thing they can do right now is defend their Wellness Program and quitely make improvements since all eyes are on them and those levels.

 

And industry regulation itself is so difficult. It would be like regulating Hollywood or Ringling Brothers. And even if it went through somehow in the States there would still be a matter of the guys that want to roid up and party like rock stars going to Mexico or Japan, so again, common theme here, wrestlers will still die!

 

They should have never stopped testing when they were losing against WCW but they kind of had no choice. They were close to going out of business and probably couldn't afford testing plus the reasons I mentioned earlier about no drug testing in WCW along with more money and less travel making the company more appealing. And when they bought out ECW and WCW and had industry control they should've have started testing again but they view themselves as entertainment and not a legitimate sports organization so there was no pressure or reason for them to do so until Eddie died. Prior to that their method was paying to send people to rehab, thus saving their lives (but you'll say it's them protecting their liability), if they were aware of talent having a problem.

 

And "why should they test/fire people when the competition will just hire them" is the lamest argument ever. Why should the WWE care about what happens to an unrepentant addict if they refuse offers for help and fail the (easy to pass) test multiple times?

 

Well, here is the slimey part. It's not because they care about what happens to the unrepentant addict that refuses help - it's because they will lose a talent to a competetor that may have a cable deal, run PPV's and impact their business and WWE's bottom line. If as much talent were roided up and on drugs as some of you on this board think you could practically start another wrestling company if WWE would release them.

 

THAT'S where personal responsibility comes in. And, like I said, it's weird how Angle is the only true top guy they've ever fired for drug use. What other publicly traded corporation in the country could an employee walk around the place of business smoking a goddamn joint in plain view and not only not get fired, but still get promoted into a top slot (Orton, Wrestlemania 22)? You could possibly make a case for guys like Warrior or Sid being top guys released over drugs, but they had all kinds of other crazy problems besides just da roids.

 

This publicly traded company is a Hollywood like entity. It would be like a movie studio firing an actor for smoking a joint on set. Marijuana is the least of their concerns. God, if you are telling guys to not take pain killers and not drink, they should practically give them a joint to smoke at bedtime to ease the pain and relax. Randy Orton's discipline was for doing it openly backstage and giving a symbolic fuck you to the agents. All the more evidence that this isn't an 80's or 90's locker room where people were doing lines of coke, drinking, taking ecstasy after their matches and whatever else. I saw ECW guys openly smoking pot and drinking beer outside their locker room door at the Rostraver Ice Garden. The Orton suspension should be a sign to you that they don't tolerate stuff like that anymore. I can see why you'd think the penalty should have been termination, I'm a stoner, you probably aren't, joint = no big deal to me. Oxycotin prescriptions = really big deal and I think that was the companies perspective too.

 

Again their testing wasn't going to be at Olympic, NFL and legitimate sport levels because they are on an entertainment company and athletic advantage from steroids isn't their concern. Creating living breathing action figures, at least in the eyes of Vince, is their priority so I don't think the test was ever to eliminate steroids but instead know where they are coming from (case in point being Benoit being mentioned with that black market internet distributor), who is on them, how much they use and the reason they have them.

 

That will all likely change now. You are beginning to see differences in physiques and bodies. Yeah, it sucks that something bad had to happen and for them to be worried about the media scrutiny but I don't see them as the terrible horrible heels like you do. They f'd up and they will respond accordingly. Yeah, they are pushing Lashley but Lashley will likely get smaller in weeks to come, if he doesn't, I'll be as pissed as you are at them but not necessarily shocked.

[justcoz 0]

Has anyone ever actually gotten any sort of heart test done? You would think there have to be some guys with badly damaged tickers that would've been caught by now.

 

I'm sure there have been cardiovascular tests - I believe I read Rob Van Dam say something about cardiologists being backstage now and how he used to do that on his own before the Wellness Program.

 

[justcoz 0]

And now suddenly they are put in a position where they are being held accountable for deaths that occurred in World Class, NWA, WCW, AWA, ECW, indies, etc. -

 

Unfortunately for WWE, that is a by-product of being the #1 promotion by a large margin and the face of professional wrestling when viewed by non-fans. Groups like TNA and ROH don't register on the mainstream media's radar because they are so small. Joe Average thinks TNA is still Tits n Ass and that the Ring of Honor is in Texas Stadium. If WCW were still around and this happened, there'd be a lot more blame going around than to just the McMahon family business.

 

AFFIRMATIVE!!!!!

 

[Dangerous A 0]

Here is a rebuttal letter against the WWE Writer Pete Doyle from yesterday's WO.com...(nice points)

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

The letter from Pete Doyle was a great example of smokescreening. It's

great that wrestlers sent their friends to rehab when needed (as opposed to

just letting them endanger themselves or others, I suppose). But it's

irrelevant to the issue. If the problem were that Benoit had showed up in

no condition to perform and wasn't sent home or to rehab by WWE personnel,

Doyle's points would have addressed the issue. The better example of WWE's

role in wrestling deaths (including Benoit's) isn't when Guerrero or

Michaels were sent away for being too messed up, but when Chris Masters lost

his push for not having the right physique.

 

Complaints about blaming WWE for the acts of a deranged individual are

nothing more than straw-man arguments. They don't address the issue, which

you yourself have expressed in simple terms: Benoit was obtaining huge

amounts of steroids and using at least some of them while passing WWE's

tests. The testing that was supposed to clean things up after Eddie died,

had failed.

 

As to the issue of choice: Is using steroids a wrestler's choice? In

theory, absolutely. In practice, only if he doesn't mind losing the only

chance at success a pro wrestler gets in life. The idea that it's purely a

wrestler's choice to use steroids is disingenuous. Theoretical choices

aren't necessarily practical choices. Even with a gun to your head, isn't

it still your choice to hand over your wallet? You're simply making a

rational decision about one alternative being better than the other. But in

practice, no one would see it that way.

 

The same argument applies to pain pills, the other big problem in wrestling.

Is it wrestler's choice to pop some pills so he can work through his

injuries? Sure, and his choice to refuse, and lose his push, his pay, and

maybe his job. Theoretical choices aren't necessarily practical choices.

 

WWE itself knows the difference; they use that distinction every time they

excuse their product by saying they're just giving the fans what they want.

The difference is that WWE isn't limited to two options, like

your-health-or-your-job. The fact that they've reinvented themselves so

many times shows that they are able to pursue alternatives when needs be.

For that matter, the UFC's success shows that you can test for steroids and

still draw fans.

 

As for Pete Doyle putting the burden on the fans or the media to change the

situation...well, not to sound simple-minded, but it would be more effective

to put the burden on WWE itself. Perhaps Doyle is only saying that change

is as likely to come through the actions of fans as the WWE, which is

frightening and hopefully untrue. I do think, though, that someone besides

the WWE may have a hand in changing the steroid and drug problem in

wrestling--the government. For now, it may still be WWE's choice to pursue

change. But if Mr. McMahon doesn't take action in time, he may not have a

practical choice in the matter.

 

Doug Koorman,

 

St Paul, MN

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Even if they do know their hearts are in trouble, what difference will it make? They'll still wrestle. Look at the rumours about rey's heart. But he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

 

I remember Vicki mentioning that Eddie was aware his heart was in bad shape. And he kept wrestling and taking steroids because he needed the money that came with being a headliner. It's probable he wasn't aware of the extent of the damage, but they knew he had problems.

[Jingus 0]

God, if you are telling guys to not take pain killers and not drink, they should practically give them a joint to smoke at bedtime to ease the pain and relax. Randy Orton's discipline was for doing it openly backstage and giving a symbolic fuck you to the agents. The Orton suspension should be a sign to you that they don't tolerate stuff like that anymore. I can see why you'd think the penalty should have been termination, I'm a stoner, you probably aren't, joint = no big deal to me.

I've deforested entire jungles with the amount I've smoked over the years. I don't think it's a big deal, and should be legalized. But right now, it's not. And Orton was wandering around smoking in plain view of everyone, including arena workers, random people backstage, and so on. That kind of crap could've easily caused a scene where the cops were called and dragged Orton kicking and screaming out of the building, right in front of all the fans. And then imagine the press coverage the WWE would've gotten the next day.

 

Oxycotin prescriptions = really big deal

Having had a good friend drop dead because of that shit, and known several others who got seriously addicted to it, I'd agree. Of course, then the problem becomes, how do you tell a real doctor from someone who has a real doctor degree and license but acts as a legalized drug dealer?

 

Again their testing wasn't going to be at Olympic, NFL and legitimate sport levels because they are on an entertainment company and athletic advantage from steroids isn't their concern.

So, what standards should they follow then? If the World Anti-Doping Agency's rules aren't good enough, then who's? The WWE seems to have arbitrarily made up their own, and obviously it's not working too well.

 

Creating living breathing action figures, at least in the eyes of Vince, is their priority so I don't think the test was ever to eliminate steroids but instead know where they are coming from (case in point being Benoit being mentioned with that black market internet distributor), who is on them, how much they use and the reason they have them.

That, I do agree with.

 

That will all likely change now. You are beginning to see differences in physiques and bodies. Yeah, it sucks that something bad had to happen and for them to be worried about the media scrutiny but I don't see them as the terrible horrible heels like you do. They f'd up and they will respond accordingly.

IF they change. I kinda doubt they will.

[Bix 0]

Even if they do know their hearts are in trouble, what difference will it make? They'll still wrestle. Look at the rumours about rey's heart. But he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Well, this is kind of my point, if someone's heart was red flagged, wouldn't that take them off the road? Were there even any specifics of the cardio testing in the original public policy?

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Even if they do know their hearts are in trouble, what difference will it make? They'll still wrestle. Look at the rumours about rey's heart. But he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Well, this is kind of my point, if someone's heart was red flagged, wouldn't that take them off the road? Were there even any specifics of the cardio testing in the original public policy?

 

 

If Rey's having heart problems, there's a good chance WWE knows he has heart problems, but they're keen to get him back as soon as possible.

WWE will likely only get involved when there's an immediete danger (Kurt Angle), at present they're probably not thinking about Rey dropping dead at 45.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

SK is, in his own words, cashing in:

 

http://www.rspwfaq.com/?p=499

[justcoz 0]

Even if they do know their hearts are in trouble, what difference will it make? They'll still wrestle. Look at the rumours about rey's heart. But he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Well, this is kind of my point, if someone's heart was red flagged, wouldn't that take them off the road? Were there even any specifics of the cardio testing in the original public policy?

 

 

If Rey's having heart problems, there's a good chance WWE knows he has heart problems, but they're keen to get him back as soon as possible.

WWE will likely only get involved when there's an immediete danger (Kurt Angle), at present they're probably not thinking about Rey dropping dead at 45.

 

Yeah, but remember, even before the Wellness Program, when Russ Haas was given medical clearance to wrestle with his heart condition the WWE delayed okaying it because they wanted a second opinion. Russ died watching television before they got that second opinion. I seriously think if they were like that for an OVW guy they'd be just as strict with someone on the main roster. They were also careful with William Regal's heart problem.

 

I kind of think some of you are so hell bent on WWE being evil, just because of what they tried to pull with getting around steroids on the Wellness Program, that you are dismissing the program entirely when it shouldn't. They just thought they were smarter than the World Anti-Doping Agency. They don't want their talent to die. They just want them to look good.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Even if they do know their hearts are in trouble, what difference will it make? They'll still wrestle. Look at the rumours about rey's heart. But he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Well, this is kind of my point, if someone's heart was red flagged, wouldn't that take them off the road? Were there even any specifics of the cardio testing in the original public policy?

 

 

If Rey's having heart problems, there's a good chance WWE knows he has heart problems, but they're keen to get him back as soon as possible.

WWE will likely only get involved when there's an immediete danger (Kurt Angle), at present they're probably not thinking about Rey dropping dead at 45.

 

Yeah, but remember, even before the Wellness Program, when Russ Haas was given medical clearance to wrestle with his heart condition the WWE delayed okaying it because they wanted a second opinion. Russ died watching television before they got that second opinion. I seriously think if they were like that for an OVW guy they'd be just as strict with someone on the main roster. They were also careful with William Regal's heart problem.

 

Yeah, but Regal and Haas weren't main eventers. They wouldn't have stuck by Angle for so long if he hadn't been a major guy in the company. WWE could do without Haas or Regal, smackdown on the other hand, desperately needs rey, a proven ratings draw, right now.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I kind of think some of you are so hell bent on WWE being evil, just because of what they tried to pull with getting around steroids on the Wellness Program, that you are dismissing the program entirely when it shouldn't. They just thought they were smarter than the World Anti-Doping Agency. They don't want their talent to die. They just want them to look good.

Might you not be taking the reverse position? That because you think some people are on this major anti-WWE kick, that you're going a little overboard in defending WWE and downplaying certain things because you think other people are overplaying them.

[justcoz 0]

I kind of think some of you are so hell bent on WWE being evil, just because of what they tried to pull with getting around steroids on the Wellness Program, that you are dismissing the program entirely when it shouldn't. They just thought they were smarter than the World Anti-Doping Agency. They don't want their talent to die. They just want them to look good.

Might you not be taking the reverse position? That because you think some people are on this major anti-WWE kick, that you're going a little overboard in defending WWE and downplaying certain things because you think other people are overplaying them.

 

well then dammit who wins then! someone has to be right! that's it, i quit!

 

 

[RepoMan 0]

Here's Lance Storm on Nancy Grace last night:

 

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiY3RWkKhac

 

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKttv0PocCA

That's the least Bitchy I've even seen Nancy.

[Perfection 0]

I fear the day that someone, like Rey for instance, drops dead from a heart attack in the middle of the ring. If wwe is aware of any heart problems and him being tied in with all this steroid mess, they are insane to even think about putting him back in the ring.

[Annabelle 0]

i see scott keith on a weekly basis. he walks like a penguin. i should punch his for his ignorance.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

From the Torch:

 

The office of Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-FL) has sent PWTorch.com the following statement this afternoon:

 

'"Earlier this month, I called for a Congressional hearing on steroid use in professional wrestling. I have talked with both the Chairman of the Energy & Commerce Committee, Rep. John Dingell (D-MI), and the Chairman of the Commerce, Trade & Consumer Protection Subcommittee, Rep. Bobby Rush (D-IL), on this issue. Although no hearing yet has been scheduled, I was encouraged by those discussions that a hearing likely will be held this fall."

 

PWTorch has also learned that Rep. Stearns was planning to draft a letter to be sent to Vince McMahon to find out how they would about learning more about how their company operates in preparation for the hearings this fall.

 

 

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I fear the day that someone, like Rey for instance, drops dead from a heart attack in the middle of the ring. If wwe is aware of any heart problems and him being tied in with all this steroid mess, they are insane to even think about putting him back in the ring.

Already happened on a few occasions, I believe Moondog Spot was the most recent. Iron Mike DiBiase (Ted's father) was another.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Gary Albright also died in the middle of the ring.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

I think he means "in a WWE ring".

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Just because Rey has a bad heart doesn't mean he's going to drop dead anytime soon. He may be another guy to die in his forties or fifties, but I doubt he's at death's door just yet.

[Celtic Jobber 0]

Did anyone else catch Glenn Beck's show tonight? He bashed wrestling really bad, saying something like "it's a bunch of jacked up thugs throwing themselves to the canvas" and encouraged parents to play with their kids this weekend instead of watching WWE"s ppv.

[Mecca 0]

so what would you say to a drug testing policy where guys just pay for shit that doesn't show up?

 

The NFL is infested with steroid mutants no one is crying bloody murder.

What type of idiotic strawman argument is that?

 

Do you just expect the NFL to magically invent a test that can detect The Clear? It took DECADES to develop a test for HGH, and all they have so far is a blood test that only detects it immediately after the subject has injected it.

 

It's the argument that if someone really wants to do steroids...they will and they will get away with. Even with stringent testing if a guy really wants to use steroids and not get caught doing it, he will.

 

Only morons like Shawne Merriman get caught.....the WWE can implement a drug policy on par with the NFL's if they want but guys will still find ways to beat it just as NFL players do. There's a hell of alot more than just steroids as to why guys are dropping dead and I don't see the WWE giving guys an offseason or drastically reducing dates to help with this.....

 

Did you even see my post? I'd like to see you respond to it.

 

Also, your comment implies that we should not have testing at all, since anyone can get around it and therefore it doesn't prove to be of any use. Do you not see why people might not take you seriously? Also, how do you not see why an offseason would help? As stated earlier the Japanese style of wrestling is much more demanding on a person's body, but the reason why they're not dropping dead is because of the time off. Dynamite Kid for one mentions in his book how that made his life alot easier while wrestling there, even though his matches with Sayama were pretty daredevil, at least for their time. Not nearly as many Puro guys roid up either, as you can tell by their looks, if nothing else.

 

You come as a huge hypocrite criticizing the media for bashing pro wrestling than saying the NFL is full of "steroid mutants". I'm sorry, but in the NFL guys don't take steroids nearly as much as you think, and the testing, contrary to whatever you may believe, is actually pretty stringent and relatively effective. Finally, they're all world class athletes. Are there some great athletes in the WWE? Sure. But if you had to ask me which org., the NFL or the WWE, had a higher proportion of steroid mutants, I'd have to say the WWE and their fill of a bunch of sluggish brick shithouses beats out the NFL any day of the week.

 

Uh, I didn't say an offseason wouldn't help I said things like that are more of an issue than even the steroids are. I said the WWE isn't going to do one because it will affect their bottom line as a company.

 

The WWE employs roughly 150 wrestlers........there are 53 football players per 32 teams and I'd be willing to bet money atleast 50% of the league is juicing, namely lineman, LB's and RB's.....the LB's are the really easy ones to point out.

 

I'm not even trying to say hey it's ok or something like that. My point is simple, if you watch any sport, or any athletics steroids are running rampant these days. To think that any sport is effectivly keeping roids out of their game is highly naive. If you watch and support wrestling or any real sports you basically just accept that their is steroid usage. If you really really hate steroids and think anyone who does them is cheating you should probably stop watching anything athletic all together. I read about golfers juicing the other day fucking golfers, it's everywhere.

 

My NFL point was just that tons of athletes in general are juicing these days not just wrestlers, Glenn Beck should go nuts on all the roided up violent football players that get arrested for domestic violence all the time....but that won't happen.

 

There's problems in every single sport these days in regards to steroid usage, problems that will likely never be fixed do to new undetectable steroids. If you think a WWE can't afford designer steroids that's also naive......the lowest paid WWE guy is pulling down what 150 grand a year? Cena pulled overall close to 5 mill last year........these guys can skirt a stringent test if they need to. The WWE policy makes it where right now they don't have to do that though, which leaves them open to a lot more attack than say the NFL.

 

Justcoz argument makes some sense to me, Jingus called his point lame about well other companies hire them whatever. Look if Kurt Angle dropped dead tomorrow, the WWE would be blamed for that despite them parting ways with him due to problems. As long as other companies will hire them the WWE will look bad. People are blaming the WWE for deaths of guys they had gotten rid of...if someone else is willing to hire a guy you fired and then they die for not changing their lifestyle, you still get blamed despite parting with him.

 

I think my biggest problem is people blaming the WWE for every single problem in wrestling. Guys that roid up that never worked there or do it down in Mexico......that is a wrestling problem not a WWE problem. Konnan isn't fucked up because of Vince or the WWE.....no matter how bad he wants to say it. He worked almost all of his career in Mexico and WCW, he really has no place to say he's fucked up at all because of the WWE yet he sure came off that way. If some star down in AAA dies because he did a ton of roids and drugs being a star in Mexico that will somehow be the WWE's fault when the WWE likely has no clue who the guy even is.

 

I'm just very tired of problems that are inherent in the industry on all ends, all sides and all countries are being acted as though by some people like they are a WWE problem that they created and begins and ends with them. It's that whole "I hate the WWE let's blame them for everything" mantality some people have.

[Bix 0]

There's problems in every single sport these days in regards to steroid usage, problems that will likely never be fixed do to new undetectable steroids. If you think a WWE can't afford designer steroids that's also naive......the lowest paid WWE guy is pulling down what 150 grand a year?

$39,000 downside, a continuation of the OVW salary.

 

Cena pulled overall close to 5 mill last year........

Says who? If he said it in an interview, he's lying, as wrestlers do professionally. A $5 million year would be up the with the biggest money year of any wrestler in history, and I doubt Cena is up there.

 

these guys can skirt a stringent test if they need to. The WWE policy makes it where right now they don't have to do that though, which leaves them open to a lot more attack than say the NFL.

A lot of guys ARE skirting the tests and using other people's urine, because, y'know, they can't afford the best steroids or find a mark doctor who will give then a scrip.

 

Justcoz argument makes some sense to me, Jingus called his point lame about well other companies hire them whatever. Look if Kurt Angle dropped dead tomorrow, the WWE would be blamed for that despite them parting ways with him due to problems. As long as other companies will hire them the WWE will look bad. People are blaming the WWE for deaths of guys they had gotten rid of...if someone else is willing to hire a guy you fired and then they die for not changing their lifestyle, you still get blamed despite parting with him.

If Angle died, more people would be defending WWE because it's known they tried to help him.

[Guest NateW]

so what would you say to a drug testing policy where guys just pay for shit that doesn't show up?

 

The NFL is infested with steroid mutants no one is crying bloody murder.

What type of idiotic strawman argument is that?

 

Do you just expect the NFL to magically invent a test that can detect The Clear? It took DECADES to develop a test for HGH, and all they have so far is a blood test that only detects it immediately after the subject has injected it.

 

It's the argument that if someone really wants to do steroids...they will and they will get away with. Even with stringent testing if a guy really wants to use steroids and not get caught doing it, he will.

 

Only morons like Shawne Merriman get caught.....the WWE can implement a drug policy on par with the NFL's if they want but guys will still find ways to beat it just as NFL players do. There's a hell of alot more than just steroids as to why guys are dropping dead and I don't see the WWE giving guys an offseason or drastically reducing dates to help with this.....

 

Did you even see my post? I'd like to see you respond to it.

 

Also, your comment implies that we should not have testing at all, since anyone can get around it and therefore it doesn't prove to be of any use. Do you not see why people might not take you seriously? Also, how do you not see why an offseason would help? As stated earlier the Japanese style of wrestling is much more demanding on a person's body, but the reason why they're not dropping dead is because of the time off. Dynamite Kid for one mentions in his book how that made his life alot easier while wrestling there, even though his matches with Sayama were pretty daredevil, at least for their time. Not nearly as many Puro guys roid up either, as you can tell by their looks, if nothing else.

 

You come as a huge hypocrite criticizing the media for bashing pro wrestling than saying the NFL is full of "steroid mutants". I'm sorry, but in the NFL guys don't take steroids nearly as much as you think, and the testing, contrary to whatever you may believe, is actually pretty stringent and relatively effective. Finally, they're all world class athletes. Are there some great athletes in the WWE? Sure. But if you had to ask me which org., the NFL or the WWE, had a higher proportion of steroid mutants, I'd have to say the WWE and their fill of a bunch of sluggish brick shithouses beats out the NFL any day of the week.

 

Uh, I didn't say an offseason wouldn't help I said things like that are more of an issue than even the steroids are. I said the WWE isn't going to do one because it will affect their bottom line as a company.

 

The WWE employs roughly 150 wrestlers........there are 53 football players per 32 teams and I'd be willing to bet money atleast 50% of the league is juicing, namely lineman, LB's and RB's.....the LB's are the really easy ones to point out.

 

I'm not even trying to say hey it's ok or something like that. My point is simple, if you watch any sport, or any athletics steroids are running rampant these days. To think that any sport is effectivly keeping roids out of their game is highly naive. If you watch and support wrestling or any real sports you basically just accept that their is steroid usage. If you really really hate steroids and think anyone who does them is cheating you should probably stop watching anything athletic all together. I read about golfers juicing the other day fucking golfers, it's everywhere.

 

My NFL point was just that tons of athletes in general are juicing these days not just wrestlers, Glenn Beck should go nuts on all the roided up violent football players that get arrested for domestic violence all the time....but that won't happen.

 

There's problems in every single sport these days in regards to steroid usage, problems that will likely never be fixed do to new undetectable steroids. If you think a WWE can't afford designer steroids that's also naive......the lowest paid WWE guy is pulling down what 150 grand a year? Cena pulled overall close to 5 mill last year........these guys can skirt a stringent test if they need to. The WWE policy makes it where right now they don't have to do that though, which leaves them open to a lot more attack than say the NFL.

 

Justcoz argument makes some sense to me, Jingus called his point lame about well other companies hire them whatever. Look if Kurt Angle dropped dead tomorrow, the WWE would be blamed for that despite them parting ways with him due to problems. As long as other companies will hire them the WWE will look bad. People are blaming the WWE for deaths of guys they had gotten rid of...if someone else is willing to hire a guy you fired and then they die for not changing their lifestyle, you still get blamed despite parting with him.

 

I think my biggest problem is people blaming the WWE for every single problem in wrestling. Guys that roid up that never worked there or do it down in Mexico......that is a wrestling problem not a WWE problem. Konnan isn't fucked up because of Vince or the WWE.....no matter how bad he wants to say it. He worked almost all of his career in Mexico and WCW, he really has no place to say he's fucked up at all because of the WWE yet he sure came off that way. If some star down in AAA dies because he did a ton of roids and drugs being a star in Mexico that will somehow be the WWE's fault when the WWE likely has no clue who the guy even is.

 

I'm just very tired of problems that are inherent in the industry on all ends, all sides and all countries are being acted as though by some people like they are a WWE problem that they created and begins and ends with them. It's that whole "I hate the WWE let's blame them for everything" mantality some people have.

 

Well it's typical of the internet to be anti-WWE and pro-whatever other non-WWE fed. With this situation a lot of people's concern and outrage over industry problems is B.S. They know they that this is good ammo to use against WWE. I would actually get a big kick out of it if wrestling ends up having to be regulated. Sure it would P.O. Vince McMahon, as WWE would be forced to make changes and others would have control, but WWE has the resources to afford it. The indy scene would be wiped out as a result. Lets see how the internet would feel about this story after that.

[Downhome 0]

Nancy Grace is talking about Kronus right now, with Bruno as a guest.