Jena school case

[EricMM 0]

He is making a point, Jingus. He's saying your hum-dee-dum kind of "honest real world truth" is stupid.

 

"This is the real world! That's just how things are! I don't like it but dadgum, boy, you'd better just keep on walking, this town isn't for the likes of you." That's all ridiculous.

 

In other words, this thread wasn't an attempt to argue whether or not this whole thing was the black kids' faults or not, it is already assumed that they are being racially punished here. The point was to bring the issue to light. You attack Czech for gratuitous snark, but you haven't had any valid points raised either.

 

Racism is not a foregone fact of life.

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

assburger?

 

 

[Guest Tzar Lysergic]

ASSBURGER?

[Jingus 0]

He is making a point, Jingus. He's saying your hum-dee-dum kind of "honest real world truth" is stupid.

 

"This is the real world! That's just how things are! I don't like it but dadgum, boy, you'd better just keep on walking, this town isn't for the likes of you." That's all ridiculous.

So you missed the various points where I said the people & the media should be grilling the shit out of this town to try and change things?

 

Racism is not a foregone fact of life.

Then please point to an example of a society that has no racism at all.

[Slayer 0]

please point to an example of a society that has no racism at all.

[Slayer 0]

Well... it would have been, eventually

[Guest Gym Class Fallout]

ASSBURGER?

I think it was a weak attempt at an anti-autistic slur.

[MFer 0]

(CNN) -- A Louisiana appeals court Friday vacated the remaining conviction of a teenager accused in a violent, racially charged incident in Jena, Louisiana, his attorney said.

 

Bob Noel said the 3rd District Court of Appeals in Lake Charles threw out the conviction for second degree battery against Mychal Bell, saying the charges should have been brought in juvenile court.

 

The future of the case against Bell is up to the district attorney, who must decide whether to refile the charges in juvenile court, Noel said.

 

Bell, who is now 17, was 16 at the time of the fight in December 2006.

 

Earlier this month, a district court judge vacated a conviction for conspiracy to commit second degree battery, saying that charge should have been brought in juvenile court.

 

He left standing the second degree battery conviction, however.

 

Bell's defense team would be filing a motion to get him out of prison, where he has been since his arrest in December, Noel said.

 

A sentencing hearing that had been scheduled for September 20 is now off, he said.

 

The Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton had been planning a rally in support of Bell on that date, The Associated Press reported.

 

Bell and five other members of what has become known as the "Jena 6" were initially charged with attempted murder and conspiracy to commit attempted murder in connection with the December 4 beating of a white student.

 

Charges against Bell were reduced, as were charges against Carwin Jones and Theodore Shaw, who have not yet come to trial.

 

Robert Bailey, Bryant Purvis and an unidentified juvenile remain charged with attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

 

Racial tensions had simmered at Jena High School and in the small town for the first three months of the 2006 school year after a black student asked the vice principal if he and some friends could sit under an oak tree where white students typically congregated.

 

Told by the vice principal they could sit wherever they pleased, the student and his pals plopped down under the sprawling branches of the shade tree in the campus courtyard.

 

The next day, students arrived at school to find three nooses hanging from those branches.

 

"I seen them hanging. I'm thinking the KKK, you know, were hanging nooses. They want to hang somebody. Real nooses, the ones you see on TV, are the kind of nooses they were," Bailey, 17, one of the Jena 6, told the syndicated radio show "Democracy Now!" in July.

 

The school's principal recommended expulsion for those behind the nooses, according to The Town Talk newspaper in nearby Alexandria. Instead, a school district committee suspended three white students for three days for hanging the nooses, the newspaper reported, a gesture written off as a "prank."

 

"Toilet paper, that's a prank, you know what I'm saying?" Bailey told the radio show. "Nooses hanging there -- nooses ain't no prank."

 

The district attorney was summoned to address the student body. Off-campus fights were reported. On November 30, someone torched the school's main academic building. The arson remains unsolved, but many suspect it was linked to the discord.

 

Four days after the arson, several students jumped a white classmate, Justin Barker, knocking him unconscious while stomping and kicking him. The charges against the Jena 6 resulted from that incident.

 

Parents of the Jena 6 said they heard Barker was hurling racial epithets. Barker's parents said he did nothing to provoke the beating.

 

Barker was taken to a hospital with injuries to both eyes and ears, as well as cuts. His right eye had blood clots, said his mother, Kelli Barker. He was treated and released that day.

 

Bail for the Jena 6 was set at between $70,000 and $138,000. All but Bell posted bond. The judge had refused to lower his $90,000 bail, citing Bell's criminal record, which includes four juvenile offenses -- two simple battery charges among them.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

Well... it would have been, eventually

haha shit, that's made me laugh really badly - thought it is like 9am in the morning so I'm probably still asleep (make excuses, not a racist)

[Celtic Jobber 0]

I live in Mississippi, in a mostly black town (87%), and on my first day of 11th grade, my highschool had a new rule that everyone had to stand outside the building before class instead of in the halls. So on the first day of school, me and 4 of my friends go to the side door, instead of the area where the buses let kids off, to wait for the first bell.

 

There were atleast 15 black kids in this same area. The assistant principal (who's black and in the NAACP) comes out and sees us standing there, sends us to the office and gives us a week of in-school suspension. Only me and my friends were punished, none of the black kids were as much as told to stand somewhere else.

 

The moral of the story? Racism can go both ways. And I know people from up North who are more racist than anyone down here. I even have one friend in Montana who claims she's never even spoken to a black person and is affraid of the "Mexicans taking over". So please don't typecast the South as being the only place in America where racism still exists.

[Guest Gym Class Fallout]

The moral of the story? Racism can go both ways. And I know people from up North who are more racist than anyone down here. I even have one friend in Montana who claims she's never even spoken to a black person and is affraid of the "Mexicans taking over". So please don't typecast the South as being the only place in America where racism still exists.

I liked this post better when it was a Randy Newman song.

[Celtic Jobber 0]

The moral of the story? Racism can go both ways. And I know people from up North who are more racist than anyone down here. I even have one friend in Montana who claims she's never even spoken to a black person and is affraid of the "Mexicans taking over". So please don't typecast the South as being the only place in America where racism still exists.

I liked this post better when it was a Randy Newman song.

 

 

Who the hell is Randy Newman?

[EricMM 0]

*cough*

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbjFfujojh4

[theintensifier 0]

What the white boys did is/was wrong.

What the black boys did is/was wrong.

What the white boys did is not illegal, but immoral.

What the black boys did is illegal, and should be punished.

 

The white boys resposnible should be expelled from school, but it'll be absurd if they get any kind of sentence. I haven't heard, nor read any kind of reports where the white boys made any kind of motion to actually use the nooses. It can certainly be taken as a threat, especially to black people. However, wouldn't an outlaw from Texas feel threatened as well?

 

As usual, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are attemtping to say that all white people are racist. I especially liked what Sharpton said "Two wrongs don't make a right......BUT......."

[theintensifier 0]

Four days after the arson, several students jumped a white classmate, Justin Barker, knocking him unconscious while stomping and kicking him. The charges against the Jena 6 resulted from that incident.

Six versus one. Now, I'm not trying to stir up a heated arguement, but what would happen if the roles were reversed? Six white men beating a single black man unconscious and continuing to stomp and kick him while he's down?

 

Parents of the Jena 6 said they heard Barker was hurling racial epithets. Barker's parents said he did nothing to provoke the beating.

Last time I checked, beating someone until they had to be hospitalized was not okay for racial slurs. And of course, each side is going to say "he deserved it - he didn't do anything wrong"

 

Barker was taken to a hospital with injuries to both eyes and ears, as well as cuts. His right eye had blood clots, said his mother, Kelli Barker. He was treated and released that day.

Quite the serious beat down. Sounds like he just got out of a MMA bout.

 

Bail for the Jena 6 was set at between $70,000 and $138,000. All but Bell posted bond. The judge had refused to lower his $90,000 bail, citing Bell's criminal record, which includes four juvenile offenses -- two simple battery charges among them.

I'm curious how they raised that kind of money. None of them seemed to come from wealthy families.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Well attempted murder was insane and would have been impossible to prove. Second Degree Battery sounds about right, so the system appears to be working for now. Hopefully, they will get an appropriate punishment and are not turned into saints as this Bell character apparently even has a record, which is what I believe Jingus was trying to get at. Obviously, you can't bum rush and stomp somebody who or may not have said something offensive and go scott free.

 

White or black, they really don't fuck around with high schol violence anymore. I mean I have a 12 year old cousin that got sentenced to community service for getting his ass kicked in a fight he didn't provoke, since evidently your suppose to curl up into a ball when someone is pounding you.

[Ripper 0]

Six versus one. Now, I'm not trying to stir up a heated arguement, but what would happen if the roles were reversed? Six white men beating a single black man unconscious and continuing to stomp and kick him while he's down?

 

According to the law in Jena, simple assault. The roles were reversed at a party a couple of days before.

 

And according to witnesses this should be more like the Jena 3-4.

 

Last time I checked, beating someone until they had to be hospitalized was not okay for racial slurs. And of course, each side is going to say "he deserved it - he didn't do anything wrong"

 

Not to nitpick, but you could punch someone once and they could be hospitalized. What exactly is an okay response for racial slurs. At a school where they hung nooses to keep you away from a tree. And a black student being jumped at a party by a group of whites a few days earlier. What exactly is the right thing to do?

 

If you say or do something that you know will incite rage, then yes, expect physcial harm. There is a such thing as provocation you know. Calling a bunch of black people nigger and expecting nothing to happen is the equivilant to pulling a toy gun at police who have their weapons drawn on you. Don't whine about the expected consequences when they happen.

 

What is with this new trend of taking up for stupid people doing incredlibly stupid thing? First that dumb taser boy now the white guy in this case. Hundreds of students at that school seemed to be able to not get their asses whooped for spewing racial taunts. Was it that hard for him not to?

 

Quite the serious beat down. Sounds like he just got out of a MMA bout.

 

Yeah. Real serious. I wonder how much it hindered his enjoyment of the party he went to that night. I bet he couldn't even dance quite as long as he could have had the serious beat down didn't occur.

 

I'm curious how they raised that kind of money. None of them seemed to come from wealthy families.

 

Probably crack and prostitution.

 

Definately crack.

[theintensifier 0]

I'm not taking up for the white boy involved in this, not in the least.

 

I was simply pointing out that he was a victim as well. Of course there will be a confrontation if racial slurs are tossed, but the point of the matter is simple, the story says 6 blacks attacks 1 white. Unless I read something different, that's what I will believe.

 

Who are the witnesses? Are they white, or black?

Simple assault? Jesus christ. I'd hate to see what an actual severe assault would look like then.

An okay response for a racial slur is "Fuck you" or simply walk away and be the bigger man. "Sticks and stones may break your bones but names will never hurt me."

I didn't read anything about any black guys supposedly getting beat down. Which is honestly surprising. Generally, when that sort of thing occurs, it's called a hate crime immediately.

Same with the white boy going to a party after he was beaten unconscious.

The white boy in question is an idiot, and possibly could have said some racial slurs (we'll never know 100% or not) but does that warrant physical abuse? Just because someone pisses you off does not give you the right to physical assault them, period.

 

I hope you have some links to back up what you're saying, Ripper.

 

And, there's no need for the sarcasm with the last quote. It was an honest question. I wasn't implying they got it from drugs, or prostitution. I was curious if they were helped out by any organizations.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

If some white guys did this in my high school they probably would have moved for their own safety. Some shit you just don't do. I can't get over how stupid these guys are for doing that. They probably thought they were just being funny though.

 

A beating is standard, that shit happens in high school all the time, or at least lots of the time in not so nice schools. Black kids get beat up in ghetto ass schools by other black kids pretty often. None of them are going to jail for murder or even assault...just another day in the projects, nigga.

[EricMM 0]

It sounds to me like those kids may have though (realized?) that they had little other recourse than to physically defend themselves against all kinds of agression.

 

I mean, if hanging nooses isn't met with more than suspension, then for christ sake...

[Ripper 0]

I'm not taking up for the white boy involved in this, not in the least.

 

I was simply pointing out that he was a victim as well. Of course there will be a confrontation if racial slurs are tossed, but the point of the matter is simple, the story says 6 blacks attacks 1 white. Unless I read something different, that's what I will believe.

 

Yes, he was a victim of a highschool fight that he provoked. Since when does that result in prison terms? And even in the case of the kid that already had trial, some of the witnesses said they didn't see him hit the kid. There are at least one of the kids that says he was trying to break it up and another who said he was watching the fight.

 

6 were charged with the assault. Most of them are admitting that they were involved in the fight, at least 2 of them are saying they weren't and there isn't anyone that can say for sure otherwise.

 

Who are the witnesses? Are they white, or black?

 

The fuck difference does this make? Would the witness account mean more or less depending upon the race of the witness?

 

Simple assault? Jesus christ. I'd hate to see what an actual severe assault would look like then

 

It usually would involve not being release in a few hours and going to a school function that night. He got in a fight.

 

An okay response for a racial slur is "Fuck you" or simply walk away and be the bigger man. "Sticks and stones may break your bones but names will never hurt me."

 

I really hope you are a minority, because if not, you can honestly fuck right off with your appropriate response crap. Okay, that sounds more antagonistic than it should, but seriously, thats bullshit. Unless you know what it is like to have racial slurs thrown at you (and none of that weak sauce shit like "This one time a black guy called me cracker!!!" you can't even understand the anger and fury that comes behind being degraded in such a way.

 

I didn't read anything about any black guys supposedly getting beat down. Which is honestly surprising. Generally, when that sort of thing occurs, it's called a hate crime immediately.

Same with the white boy going to a party after he was beaten unconscious.

 

Well then you didn't read the story.

 

In December before this a group of white men assaulted a few black men who were going to attend the mostly white party. One guy was charged with battery and given probation even though the fight reportedly included a bottle being broken over the head of Robert Bailey(one of the Jena 6).

 

The next day, there was a confrontation at a convienance store between Bailey, some other black guys and one of the whites that were at the party. The white guy pulled a gun, the gun was wrestled away from him by the black students. Bailey was charged with theft of the gun, disturbing the peace and second degree robbery(for taking the gun). The guy that pulled the gun wasn't charged.

 

And yes, the horribly beaten barely can move serious assualt victim in this case attended the Ring ceremony that evening. No doubt in a wheel chair.

 

The white boy in question is an idiot, and possibly could have said some racial slurs (we'll never know 100% or not) but does that warrant physical abuse? Just because someone pisses you off does not give you the right to physical assault them, period.

 

First, of course he said something, unless you believe they just randomly picked some random kid out of all the kids at the school and beat him up as he was just trying to go to class. no doubt thinking about what a swinging good time he would have at the ring ceremony that night. Come on.

 

And once again, yes, physical abuse is the expected response behind racial slurs. You know it, I know it and everyone living outside of 1958 town knows it. If you thought it would just piss people off, it would be said alot more often. But the reason you wouldn't call a 6'8 300lb black man a nigger to his face is because you would think he is going to beat the shit out of you for it. And I don't care if he was a Supreme Court Justice, you would expect him to punch you in the fucking face.

 

So what is supposed to be expected of some High School boys, who we all know are the smartest creatures in the world.

 

I am not saying these boys should get anyless than Mr Head Bussa with the bottle at the party where the blacks were jumped. But attempted murder? Aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy? They were initially charged with assault until Mr. "I can take away your lives with one stroke of a pen" came along and uped the sentences.

 

 

[theintensifier 0]

I really hope you are a minority, because if not, you can honestly fuck right off with your appropriate response crap. Okay, that sounds more antagonistic than it should, but seriously, thats bullshit. Unless you know what it is like to have racial slurs thrown at you (and none of that weak sauce shit like "This one time a black guy called me cracker!!!" you can't even understand the anger and fury that comes behind being degraded in such a way.

 

I'm of Hispanic/Irish/Italian decent. Since I'm so dark complected, I get called a wet back on a fairly often basis. I get called a wet back, even though I have the most Irish name in the known universe. I just retain a tan very well, I guess. I've had many racial slurs thrown my way since I was in elementary school, through the Marine Corps., and to the present day.

 

I'm curious though. Why do you consider it to be weak sauce for being called a cracker? It wouldn't bother me in the least, but, I'm just curious.

 

Yes, he was a victim of a highschool fight that he provoked. Since when does that result in prison terms? And even in the case of the kid that already had trial, some of the witnesses said they didn't see him hit the kid. There are at least one of the kids that says he was trying to break it up and another who said he was watching the fight.

 

6 were charged with the assault. Most of them are admitting that they were involved in the fight, at least 2 of them are saying they weren't and there isn't anyone that can say for sure otherwise.

 

Regardless of the fact that he and his friends provoked the occurrence, does not mean what the African Americans did was not illegal. Was it justified, obviously. I’d take that as a threat. I don’t even have to have black skin to take that as a threat. Irish people, Irish men from my family tree were hung in New York back in the day.

 

If two of them denied being involved in the fight, was it really necessary for the other four to attack a single man? That’s either being caught up in the moment, pure hatred, or an overall “gang” assault. Like I said before, they were justified in their actions, but being justified in doing something doesn’t always make it legal.

 

I think the sentences are harsh, and it’s possibly due to their skin color. It’s 2007, we as a nation should be past all of that. I know of a few Caucasians that were given a rough sentence for school related violence. I think the one who had a prior obviously got a harsher sentence for being a repeat offender.

 

The fuck difference does this make? Would the witness account mean more or less depending upon the race of the witness?

 

I think it does make a difference. If another white boy from the school witnessed the fight, he’d be more inclined to lie and say the black kids were being vicious and all attacking the other white boy. And if it were a black person standing there, who probably knows about the nooses being hung, they’d be more inclined to think that justice had been served. It’s not completely out of the question for something like that to happen.

 

It usually would involve not being release in a few hours and going to a school function that night. He got in a fight.

 

Maybe he was manning up? Doctors fuck up, all the time. I was released fourty five minutes after I had been emitted to the emergency room after rolling my car six times.

 

The white guy pulled a gun, the gun was wrestled away from him by the black students. Bailey was charged with theft of the gun, disturbing the peace and second degree robbery(for taking the gun). The guy that pulled the gun wasn't charged.

 

That’s incredibly fucked up. Have a link for the story, by chance? Apparently, the white guy had a great attorney. Or, just an incredible story, and alibi.

 

But the reason you wouldn't call a 6'8 300lb black man a nigger to his face is because you would think he is going to beat the shit out of you for it.

 

I did that once before. SSGT Mahone, who was 6’7, 320 pounds of solid muscle. He was also a former Marine Corps. Drill Instructor. He gorilla pressed me over his head and threw me. He called me a spic, so I responded with a racial slur of my own. It was all in good taste, we were using Marine Corps. Martial Arts.

 

So what is supposed to be expected of some High School boys, who we all know are the smartest creatures in the world.

 

They did exactly what was expected of them. It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t pay the consequences, though.

 

I am not saying these boys should get anyless than Mr Head Bussa with the bottle at the party where the blacks were jumped. But attempted murder? Aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy? They were initially charged with assault until Mr. "I can take away your lives with one stroke of a pen" came along and uped the sentences.

 

Well, just goes to show you how fucked up our legal system really is.

[The Niggardly King 0]

...

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

FYI, Mychal Bell's trial featured an all-white jury and all white witnesses. His public defender didn't call any witnesses or present any evidence.

[Jingus 0]

If you're a trial attorney, how do you literally make no effort whatsoever on the behalf of your client in court and still keep your job?

[2GOLD 0]

If you're a trial attorney, how do you literally make no effort whatsoever on the behalf of your client in court and still keep your job?

 

He was waiting to see how it played out then preparing a great appeal. Or he was too busy thinking about that sandwich he had in the fridge. Either way, you would think the state board would be going after his license (? I forget what lawyers have) since he didn't do the one thing his job required of him.

 

That's one part of the case I'd like to hear more about. How is this guy still being allowed to continue practicing law after this?

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

It's called being a public defender. Paid jack shit and given about three gajillion cases per week.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

FYI, Mychal Bell's trial featured an all-white jury and all white witnesses. His public defender didn't call any witnesses or present any evidence.

 

http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=2...070922345513498

 

Clearly, something bad occurred in Jena, population 2,971, an old sawmill town in LaSalle Parish that, once upon a time, was Ku Klux Klan country. And, as most white and black residents readily agree, there is no good reason for embracing what unfolded here.

 

But what happened, exactly?

 

The story goes that a year ago, a black student asked at an assembly if he could sit in the shade of a live oak, which, the story goes, was labeled "the white tree" because only white students hung out there. The next day, three nooses dangled from the oak - code for "KKK" - the handiwork of three white students, who were suspended for just three days.

 

Much of that is disputed. What happened next is not: Two months later, an arsonist torched a wing of Jena High School. (The case remains unsolved.)

 

Two fights between blacks and whites roiled the town that weekend, culminating in a school-yard brawl on Dec. 4 that led the district attorney to charge the Jena Six with attempted murder. The lethal weapon he cited to justify the charge: the boys' sneakers.

 

In July, the first to be tried, Mychal Bell, was convicted after two hours of deliberations by an all-white jury on reduced charges of aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit it.

 

(It was widely reported that Bell, now 17, was an honor student with no prior criminal record. Although he had a high grade-point average, he was, in fact, on probation for at least two counts of battery and a count of criminal damage to property. In any event, his conviction was overturned because an appeals court ruled he should not have been tried as an adult.)

 

There is, however, a more nuanced rendition of events - one that can be found in court testimony, in interviews with teachers, officials and students at Jena High, and in public statements from a U.S. attorney who reviewed the case for possible federal intervention.

 

Consider:

 

-The so-called "white tree" at Jena High, often reported to be the domain of only white students, was nothing of the sort, according to teachers and school administrators; students of all races, they say, congregated under it at one time or another.

 

-Two nooses - not three - were found dangling from the tree. Beyond being offensive to blacks, the nooses were cut down because black and white students "were playing with them, pulling on them, jump-swinging from them, and putting their heads through them," according to a black teacher who witnessed the scene.

 

-There was no connection between the September noose incident and December attack, according to Donald Washington, an attorney for the U.S. Justice Department in western Louisiana, who investigated claims that these events might be race-related hate crimes.

 

-The three youths accused of hanging the nooses were not suspended for just three days - they were isolated at an alternative school for about a month, and then given an in-school suspension for two weeks.

 

-The six-member jury that convicted Bell was, indeed, all white. However, only one in 10 people in LaSalle Parish is African American, and though black residents were selected randomly by computer and summoned for jury selection, none showed up.

 

further on

 

Tommy Farris, 27, an oil driller, and his wife, Nikki, 29, a registered nurse, concur - to a point. "Those boys should have expelled," says Nikki, who is white. "It was no innocent prank. I think those boys knew what they were starting by hanging those nooses from a tree."

 

Tommy, who is black, agrees. But free the Jena Six?

 

"That's not going to happen," he says, adding that he thinks the black teenagers are being given a fair chance to defend themselves against the charges.

[theintensifier 0]

This certainly puts a spin on things.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Tommy Farris, 27, an oil driller, and his wife, Nikki, 29, a registered nurse, concur - to a point. "Those boys should have expelled," says Nikki, who is white. "It was no innocent prank. I think those boys knew what they were starting by hanging those nooses from a tree."

 

Tommy, who is black, agrees. But free the Jena Six?

 

"That's not going to happen," he says, adding that he thinks the black teenagers are being given a fair chance to defend themselves against the charges.

 

What is the point that you're trying to make with this?