What If...?

[Guest Vitamin X]

Slayer's 98 NFC Title Game is my Super Bowl XXXII.

[Brett Favre 0]

'98 sucked for everyone. What if the Jets held on to their 10-0 lead in the AFC Championship?

[BruiserKC 0]

Well it's certain that a Vikings-Broncos game would've been a helluva lot better than the Falcons-Broncos game we got instead for the Super Bowl.

 

If you think about it a lot of changes might have happened if Gary Anderson had made that field goal and Minnesota won the NFC title (or hadn't fumbled near the end zone late in the game). First, Dennis Green would've become the first black coach to lead a team to the Super Bowl a little less than a decade before Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith were able to. Also, it might mean that Green is still coaching in Minnesota today as opposed to being remembered for last year's meltdown in Arizona with "crown their ass." Second, it would've further cemented Randall Cunningham's legacy and given him a chance to finally win a Super Bowl that always elluded him.

 

My dad is a big Vikings fan and to this day he's still super pissed about that Falcons game. He talks about it as if someone died everytime he watches a Vikings game.

 

I've got another "what if" from that '98 season, though:

 

What if Steve Young doesn't get injured in the divisional game versus Atlanta? Do the 49ers manage to win and play Minnesota in the NFC title game? If they do win, do they beat Minnesota and play the Broncos instead?

 

 

Another angle to look at...would Randy Moss have remained a Viking had he gotten to the Super Bowl and won it in '98?

 

[cabbageboy 0]

There's no way the 94 Steelers would have had a hope in hell vs. the Niners. Good grief, the Niners treated the Chargers (who beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh) like a total jobber in the Super Bowl. Steelers would have had the same fate.

 

As far as the 1998 season goes, I still have no idea how the Vikings managed to lose to the Falcons. Yeah the Falcons were 14-2 that year, but they seemed a really lame 14-2 that hadn't done anything.

 

I'll toss out a What If from the next season. What if the Titans don't pull off the Music City Miracle? I have to wonder if Manning gets to the Super Bowl in his 2nd year and then get some crazy 42-38 shootout vs. the Rams in the Super Bowl. For some reason I don't see Jacksonville winning the AFC title game in either scenario.

[Vern Gagne 0]

I tried simulating the 1994 baseball playoffs, and got nothing but exhibition games.

[therealworldschampion 0]

Phillies:

 

What if Fregosi had not gone with an obviously overworked Mitch Williams in the bottom of the 9th of Game 6 against Toronto? Do the Phils force a Game 7? (Al can probably answer that one)

 

What if Billy Wagner never gives up the home run to Craig Biggio in bottom of the 9th in that September 2005 game and the Phils make the playoffs instead of the Astros?

 

Eagles:

 

What if the Eagles take Chad Johnson or Steve Smith in the 2001 draft, who were on the board at the time they picked, instead of Freddie Mitchell?

 

What if Andy Reid had put Michael Lewis in at strong safety rather than Blaine Bishop (who was hiding an injury at the time) on that 3rd and long against Tampa (the Jurevicius play) in the 2002 NFC title game? My guess is the younger, faster Lewis probably stops Jurevicius short of the 1st, the Eagles force Tampa to punt deep in their own territory, the Vet crowd gets louder with the 7-3 lead, and the Eagles probably have a much better shot at winning that game (The Jurevicius play KILLED the crowd in that game)

 

Flyers:

 

What if the Flyers never trade for Eric Lindros? The talent they gave up was amazing. Forsberg, Ricci, Hextall, 2 first round picks...

 

What if Lindros had never come back to play against the Devils in 2000? Once the rumors about him returning started before Game 5, the Flyers blew the 3-1 lead.

 

Sixers:

 

What if Billy King and Tony DiLeo, who wanted Dirk Nowitzki or Paul Pierce with the Sixers pick in the 1998 draft, get their way over Larry Brown, who wanted Larry Hughes? Do the Sixers win a title with Iverson/Nowitzki or Iverson/Pierce?

 

Villanova:

 

What if Curtis Sumpter never tears his ACL against Florida in the second round of the 2005 NCAAs? They probably beat North Carolina instead of losing by 1 on a bad call, and are probably in the Final Four, most likely have a better shot at beating Florida in 2006 and winning the national title.

 

Penn State:

 

What if Paterno actually ran up the score against lesser teams in 1994 instead of pulling starters at halftime? Does PSU get more votes over Nebraska?

 

What if the 2 seconds were never put back on the clock against Michigan in 2005? Is it PSU playing USC in the Rose Bowl instead of Texas?

[Guest Vitamin X]

What if the Eagles take Chad Johnson or Steve Smith in the 2001 draft, who were on the board at the time they picked, instead of Freddie Mitchell?

 

Interesting scenario, but I think Chad Johnson's success is at large accredited to having Carson Palmer at quarterback, and the system Cincy plays in. I'm not sure if he would have done as well in Philadelphia. Smith on the other hand, would've been a game changer on the level of Terrell Owens' season in Philadelphia- minus the locker room drama. The problem is, is that Philadelphia peaked at the same time that New England did, so they might've made a Super Bowl or two, but they would've been playing the Bills to the Patriots' Cowboys. They were just not a better team, though they were close, Steve Smith or not.

 

And of course, having Johnson or Smith on board means that they don't sign Owens, who goes to another wide receiver needy team. Maybe he DOES end up in Baltimore, then? Or possibly Tampa Bay?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

What if Fregosi had not gone with an obviously overworked Mitch Williams in the bottom of the 9th of Game 6 against Toronto? Do the Phils force a Game 7? (Al can probably answer that one)

 

The Blue Jays still win. Four Phillies relievers in that series had double digit ERAs. The Phils had used three relievers in that game, leaving Williams, Bobby Thigpen and Ben Rivera as options. Rivera gave up four runs in an inning and a third in his prior appearance. Thigpen had a 5.83 ERA during the regular season. There's no second-guessing Fregosi here. He made the best move given the personnel he had. If the Phils force game seven, they still have to conquer the same bullpen issues and then beat Pat Hentgen. When the game seven starters met in game three, the Blue Jays won big.

 

I never viewed the '93 Phillies as a heartbreak. They were a team that got much farther than they should have. The Blue Jays were better.

 

What if Billy Wagner never gives up the home run to Craig Biggio in bottom of the 9th in that September 2005 game and the Phils make the playoffs instead of the Astros?

 

If the Phils made the playoffs, they probably would have lost to the Cardinals in the first round.

[TheSSNintendo 0]

What if Steve Young doesn't get injured in the divisional game versus Atlanta? Do the 49ers manage to win and play Minnesota in the NFC title game? If they do win, do they beat Minnesota and play the Broncos instead?

 

 

I don't remember Steve Young getting injured in that game. What I do remember is Garrison Hearst breaking his ankle in the 1st quarter.

 

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

What if the Flyers never trade for Eric Lindros? The talent they gave up was amazing. Forsberg, Ricci, Hextall, 2 first round picks...

 

I think things would have remained about the same. I won't completely downplay how big the trade was to both sides, because it really did make both teams much better. But getting Roy is what really made the Nords/Avs the better team. The Flyers did have some success, losing in the Finals, and the Conference Finals, but they had made apretty big trade getting Leclair and Desjardins by that point. So while it's fun to consider, I can't see much difference on either side.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

1991- Minnesota-Pittsburgh...would this Fall Classic been as epic as the one we had IRL? And if the Pirates had somehow won would that have kept Bonds in a Pittsburgh uniform a little bit longer or perhaps for good?

 

Highly doubtful. Bobby Bonilla and John Smiley were not returning the next season, it was clear that the Pirates were going into "small market that can not compete with the big markets" mode by that time.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I tried simulating the 1994 baseball playoffs, and got nothing but exhibition games.

 

Two years ago the then-named Cold Pizza simmed the 1994 baseball playoffs and found that the World Series came down to the New York Yankees and the Montreal Expos with the Expos winning in 6 games.

 

I totally agree with alkeiper that the Phillies would have lost to the Blue Jays even with a pitching change in game 6 and even if they had won game 6 they would've lost game 7.

 

Here's one I've always wondered:

 

What if the Packers are able to stop the Eagles on 4th & long in the NFC divisional playoffs in 2004? The Packers looked to be hte hottest team going into the playoffs with a Brett Favre that was playing his heart out after the death of his father. I have to believe that if the Packers make that stop they have a chance to beat the Panthers and then play the Patriots. Does anyone here think that team might've won the Super Bowl?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Any valid simulation of the 1994 postseason is going to run into one of two conclusions.

 

1. The Montreal Expos defeat the Chicago White Sox in the World Series. This happens if you base your simulation off 1994 statistics only, and those teams had the best pythagorean records in their respective leagues.

 

2. The Atlanta Braves defeat the Cleveland Indians in the World Series. Basing a simulation on career statistics, a team of quality over several seasons stands out.

 

If you just simulate 5-7-7 games, the results are so random that they are of no use. You have to run several hundred trials to get an answer, and if you do that you are just going to come back to the win/loss records anyway.

 

Just to add a relevant list I used to come up with number two.

 

1992-1996
WINNING PERCENTAGE              PCT    
1    Braves                     .613   
2    Indians                    .562   
3    Nationals                  .550   
4    Yankees                    .545   
5    White Sox                  .538   
6    Orioles                    .534   
7    Reds                       .531   
8    Astros                     .523   
9    Rangers                    .509   
10   Red Sox                    .507

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Going back to the issue about Colorado and their altitude, what about the Broncos? How much does it help in terms of lifting the ball? Does it help in terms of getting him yardage? If Elway was on a different team would his stats have been as gaudy?

[Guest •]

I don't think it's as pivotal in football, outside of adding a few yards to field goal attempts. Denver seems to play as more of a running/defense field, anyway.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

Yankees:

 

Don't sign Giambi in 2002. This opens the door for them to sign David Ortiz in 2003 and keep him from Boston. Big Stein wanted Ortiz, but Cash-man firmly said no, since the team already had Giambi and Nick Johnson. Without Ortiz, Boston may not even be able to come back after being dead in the water in August to win the Wild Card and set up the 2003 ALCS. Also, keep Marcus Thames and/or Juan Rivera to play the OF instead of trading him for Ruben Seirra and getting Raul Mondesi to play right. Keeping one or both of these two homegrown outfielders probably puts Hideki Matsui somewhere else in 2003 as well, although they really wanted to get a grip on the Japanese market so that signing may have happened anyway.

 

Rivera comes in to pitch in extra innings in Game 4 of the 2003 World Series, instead of bringing in Jeff Weaver who hadn't pitched since September and gave up the game winning home run to Alex Gonzalez. Yankees go up in the Series 3-1, but if you stay the course and Wells still blows up in Game 5 and Beckett pitches his shutout in Game 6, we have a Game 7 with retiring hero Clemens' last hurrah against Brad Penny.

 

Signing Vlad Guerrero instead of Gary Sheffield in 2004, which in the process chased Andy Pettitte away to Houston (who convinces Rog to come along for the ride; Brian Cashman suggested he file for free agency in case he wanted to make a comeback) for three years. The Yankees win the 2004 World Series, and the Stros don't make it in 2005 without Pettitte and Clemens. Perhaps the pitching holds up in 2005 and the Yanks at least make it past LA of A in the first round and meet the red-hot White Sox in the ALCS.

 

Without David Ortiz, Boston doesn't make it in 2003 and the unspeakable debacle of 2004 doesn't happen. Then for 2005 they get off their laurels and get Carlos Beltran, which sets them up for the forseeable future and doesn't bring in a breaking down Johnny Damon either.

 

Also for 2007, hang on to Carlos Pena to solve the first base black hole (no Mientkiewicz/Phelps/Phillips mess...interesting how in 2003 they didn't want to have a roster with 3 1Bman, but in 2007 they saw it as a neccessity), who was in the system last year. And to bring it full circle, he was also involved in the 3-way trade in 2002 that sent Lilly for Weaver.

[Guest Vitamin X]

What if the Packers are able to stop the Eagles on 4th & long in the NFC divisional playoffs in 2004? The Packers looked to be hte hottest team going into the playoffs with a Brett Favre that was playing his heart out after the death of his father. I have to believe that if the Packers make that stop they have a chance to beat the Panthers and then play the Patriots. Does anyone here think that team might've won the Super Bowl?

 

If the Packers beat the Eagles, they definitely beat the Panthers, since their front four would be neutralized and Ahman Green was having a career year. Unfortunately, I don't think they beat the Patriots- they had a hell of a team that year, possibly the best of their 3 championship teams. I called them winning it all from the moment the postseason began, and I don't think any other outcome in either conference, or any other team, would've changed that. The only thing I will say about that game is that it would've been very close- the Patriots would've played the Packers in much the same way they played the Panthers (with maybe perhaps the whole "we remember Super Bowl XXXI"! thing going for them as well?), and I believe would've won in the last few minutes of the game. If the Packers pull it off, it would be in a similar manner, and Favre definitely retires, plus they most likely retain Rivera and Wahle, whose departure essentially led the Packers into a 4-12 season since their offense was based entirely on their line.

 

Also, the oft-forgotten thing people forget about 4th and long was that was the exploitation of Mike Sherman's failure as a head coach. They had two other chances to win the game that didn't have to do with 4th and 26- one came late in the fourth quarter where the Packers, already with the lead, could've called a running play and gotten a touchdown, thus avoiding David Akers' kick that sent the game into overtime (and 4th and 26 along with it). Another came once the game went into overtime, which was that the Packers had the ball, and Favre makes quite possibly the worst throw in the history of postseason overtime quarterbacking where the ball just sits up there like a lame duck and lands right into the arms of an Eagle, setting up an easy Akers FG.

 

Going back to the issue about Colorado and their altitude, what about the Broncos? How much does it help in terms of lifting the ball? Does it help in terms of getting him yardage? If Elway was on a different team would his stats have been as gaudy?

 

Disagreeing with Czech a bit here, I definitely believe it helps the passing game and special teams a bit, but not by much. If Elway was on a different team, it's difficult to question- you have to take the variable of the thin air out of the equation since there's so many other things involved with him succeeding as well as he did in Denver.

 

It helps in terms of getting him yardage because the ball travels much farther with ease and accuracy. Elway was known for having a cannon arm and having the thin air for which deep balls were designed for was perfect. It doesn't, however, "lift" the ball, it just slows the amount of resistance it might normally have in another climate.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I'm not going to quote Bauer's post in its entirety. I think some of those fall under the category of blunders rather than what ifs. Many franchises make moves that affect their team's success. It's easy to look at the best and worst in hindsight, but of course GMs and managers don't have that information handy when they make the decision.

 

-Bringing in Hideki Matsui was probably a great move due to the increase in the Japanese market. The Yankees are enjoying similar rewards thanks to Chin-Ming Wang in Taiwan, and now they are looking at the chinese market as well.

 

-If there is one key mistake in that whole list, it was taking Gary Sheffield over Vladimir Guerrero.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

What I was getting at was the chain reaction that was set off when they lost the 2001 World Series. I never even put a lot of thought into the Ortiz thing until I wrote it, nor do I fault them for passing on him. But they did end up trading Johnson away the next year in the Javy Vazquez trade, and Giambi had a complete breakdown in 2004 where he only played about 80 games and John Olerud was claimed off the scrap heap for first, and not trusting Giambi for '05, they brought back Tino Martinez, the same guy they had cast off in 2002 in favor of Giambi.

[Guest •]

Disagreeing with Czech a bit here, I definitely believe it helps the passing game and special teams a bit, but not by much. If Elway was on a different team, it's difficult to question- you have to take the variable of the thin air out of the equation since there's so many other things involved with him succeeding as well as he did in Denver.

I tend to associate Mile High with crowd noise and adverse weather more than thin air. From what I've seen, the thin air is something that only gets exploited on long field goal attempts, rather than offense. I'm sure John Elway was just as good at sea level. I also think he resembles a horse, but that's not germane to the discussion.

[Red Baron 0]

Disagreeing with Czech a bit here, I definitely believe it helps the passing game and special teams a bit, but not by much. If Elway was on a different team, it's difficult to question- you have to take the variable of the thin air out of the equation since there's so many other things involved with him succeeding as well as he did in Denver.

I tend to associate Mile High with crowd noise and adverse weather more than thin air. From what I've seen, the thin air is something that only gets exploited on long field goal attempts, rather than offense. I'm sure John Elway was just as good at sea level. I also think he resembles a horse, but that's not germane to the discussion.

 

Anyone have any statistics on their kickers. I know Elam range in Denver is greater than anywhere else.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I too think that some players tend to take on the facial characteristics of their team's mascot. Elway, as you mentioned, does look like a horse. So does Peyton Manning. Barry Sanders looked like a lion. And so on and so forth..

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

Or, Roger Clemens and Freddy:

 

[Canadian Brandon 0]

What if Kevin Dyson gets the one extra yard and the Titans tie up Superbowl XXIV? We would've got the first overtime Superbowl in history.

[Guest •]

I too think that some players tend to take on the facial characteristics of their team's mascot.

Hope there's nobody named Mohammad on the Jets!!!

[Guest Vitamin X]

Haha, good one Czech.

 

What if Kevin Dyson gets the one extra yard and the Titans tie up Superbowl XXIV? We would've got the first overtime Superbowl in history.

 

I was fucking pissed the Titans lost that game. I thought that, given the Music City Miracle and the team that they had, not to mention the Super Bowl being played, it was their game to lose. McNair was a fucking badass in that game.

 

If they go to overtime, they win. They had the momentum in their favor, and the Rams just barely held on.

 

[KingPK 0]

Speaking of OT Super Bowls, what if New England takes John Madden's advice and doesn't go for it on that last drive, sending SB XXXVI to overtime? If the Rams win the toss, I think they could have won it since the Patriot defense was cooked at that point from being on the field for most of the second half.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Ha, John Madden is an idiot. I forgot about him saying that.

[Slayer 0]

That aforementioned 1998 NFC Title game, where the Vikes took a knee with 45 seconds or so to go in regulation to chance it in OT, was the exact reason I was saying "The Pats better fucking go for this" while watching that SB

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

Here is a great baseball one with many, many implications

 

What if Walter O'Malley gets his way and gets to build his new Dodger ballpark in Brooklyn on the area of land with plenty of parking spaces and direct access to the railroad (a lot of Dodger fans moved out of Brooklyn and to Long Island, and Westchester, hence why attendance numbers dwindled during the last few years) that Ebbets did not enjoy. Or what if O'Malley says the heck with "Brooklyn" and agrees to move into a stadium proposed by Robert Moses to be built where the NY Worlds Fair was (and soon to be held) out in Flushing Meadows, Queens, in other words what is today Shea Stadium.

 

Clearly LA would be in line for an expansion team, probably Frisco as well. Would The Giants follow suit? Or would Stoneham, without enticement from O'Malley go forward with his plan to transfer to Minnesota. So where do the original Senators go when they up and move? Or do they?

 

Do the Dodgers have the same trajectory that they have enjoyed in Los Angeles? Was a change to a pitchers paradise really all that Sandford Koufax needed to become an icon? Could he have gotten it together here?

 

Heh, when the NL expands do they dare try to replace the Giants and put a third team in New York?

 

Is that Dodger era that only won 1 championship in 10 years remembered so fondly today or are they given the same treatment as the Braves of the 90s-00s or the Bills of the 90s?