k thx Posted July 15, 2007 Report Posted July 15, 2007 If the MLS sticks around for a few more decades, so you can get long term fans and rivalries, it has a better chance of taking off. Better players would also help, as would having the US team in more meaningful conpetitions (say have yearly summer tournament with the best teams from Europe or South America: they bring weaker teams for experience, the US wins, everybodies happy). Freddy Adu also need to move to a European club in order to develop into a great player. Unfortunately, however good he may be a youth level, he won't progress much further with the quality of the game in the States. It looks like he may be going to Tottenham Hotspurs in the UK, which may be a good thing although they have a record of wasting talent. With the low scoring thing, I like the fact that a goal can come at any time and change the course of a match. For every goal, there's usually a fair few opportunities which are missed. Ultimately, it's a cultural thing. I couldn't watch a Baseball, Hockey, Basketball or Football game without getting far more bored than a Soccer game.
Guest • Posted July 15, 2007 Report Posted July 15, 2007 You're absolutely right about the cultural thing. It's not our sport, and never will be. As it stands, they're playing during the rest of the world's offseason, which coincides with our baseball season, the alternative being to coincide with the NFL, which is a death wish. I don't get why people are still trying to sell America on soccer. We don't push our games on the rest of the world like they do to us, with the help of our domestic soccer advocates who won't shut up about it. They keep selling, but we're not buying. I'd know; my neighbors are a soccer-mad family of Austrian descent (they're really just from Palatine, but they scold their kids in forceful German) who embody everything I can't stand about American youth soccer culture.
Guest Vitamin X Posted July 15, 2007 Report Posted July 15, 2007 I don't know about you, but it does seem like a. we have (successfully!) pushed basketball on the rest of the world, enough to where they're getting better than we are, b. we're certainly trying to cram our brand of football down the rest of the world's throats, like the whole 2 regular season games every season are going to be played abroad (like this year's exciting exhibition of the Giants vs. Dolphins!), which, by the way, I'm totally against. It does seem like the Germans, Mexicans, and Japanese in particular love our game, though. In other news, they should make rugby an Olympic sport again. Most of the world is playing that game, and it's a perfect mix of soccer and football.
Guest • Posted July 15, 2007 Report Posted July 15, 2007 They've embraced basketball, though. We haven't embraced soccer.
Guest Vitamin X Posted July 16, 2007 Report Posted July 16, 2007 They've embraced basketball, though. We haven't embraced soccer. But that's exactly the point. As CW said, eventually, just as Europe and other countries have. What we need is an American star making it big overseas. Also, in regards to rivalries and whatnot, MLS could really get a boost by buying out the USL. Unlike other business, sports is something where having one governing body for a sport could help. To top it off, they do pretty well for themselves and have several teams (more than MLS, I believe) in other big cities. The way the system works now is that the USL (despite having some talent much superior to that of MLS) serves as MLS' pool of talent to draft from, considering that they are an amateur league. Currently, MLS has teams in: Chicago Columbus, OH D.C. Kansas City New England New York Toronto Denver Dallas Houston Salt Lake City Los Angeles (Two teams, Chivas USA and the Galazy). Adding USL's First Division would add: Atlanta San Francisco Bay Area North Carolina (Charlotte) Charleston Miami Minneapolis-St. Paul Montreal Portland Puerto Rico Western NY (Rochester) Seattle Vancouver, B.C. That's a fairly good list of cities there.
k thx Posted July 16, 2007 Report Posted July 16, 2007 If they add another league, they should allow promotion and relegation between divisions. That seems to be one thing missing from US sports that adds a lot to a season.
Guest • Posted July 16, 2007 Report Posted July 16, 2007 I hate promotion and relegation. It doesn't work with American sports, anyway.
Black Lushus Posted July 16, 2007 Report Posted July 16, 2007 I guess I fail to see the significance in this....and Posh has a TV show about her life in America now? For what???
Broward83 Posted July 17, 2007 Report Posted July 17, 2007 I'd be up for the promotion/relegation idea if we (the MLS) were to buy out the USL. The thing would be, do you keep the teams that are in the MLS as "top flight" teams and the USL teams start off on the lower rank, or do you find a way to take a top percentage of teams from each group to make the top flight with the rest of the teams going down? As far as rivalries... eh, FC Dallas / Houston is one (if only because of the natural Houston/Dallas rivalry) and I think that Chicago / Houston has either been one, or is becoming one... oh yeah, Chivas / Houston is quickly becoming a rivalry between the two clubs.
Your Paragon of Virtue Posted July 17, 2007 Report Posted July 17, 2007 It's gone off really well in Toronto, but that's because our huge multicultural population loves soccer. Every world cup that comes around gets more play here than any other sport. Perhaps things would be crazier if the Leafs won a stanley cup, but that would be a smaller but more rabid crowd. Also, the fact that they haven't won in forty years makes a difference too. But a world cup win has EVERYONE going nuts. Anyway, the point is that it's successful in Toronto, but the rest of Canada, not so much.
Kurt Angle Mark Posted July 17, 2007 Report Posted July 17, 2007 I'd be up for the promotion/relegation idea if we (the MLS) were to buy out the USL. The thing would be, do you keep the teams that are in the MLS as "top flight" teams and the USL teams start off on the lower rank, or do you find a way to take a top percentage of teams from each group to make the top flight with the rest of the teams going down? As far as rivalries... eh, FC Dallas / Houston is one (if only because of the natural Houston/Dallas rivalry) and I think that Chicago / Houston has either been one, or is becoming one... oh yeah, Chivas / Houston is quickly becoming a rivalry between the two clubs. L.A. Galaxy/ San Jose Earthquake was the best rivalry in the MLS. I don't really watch the MLS but The only game that I saw that had the European/South America crazy atmosphere was a playoff game between the two at San Jose. With San Jose now returning next year that rivalry might be re-newed
razazteca Posted July 17, 2007 Report Posted July 17, 2007 What about REAL Salt Lake vs Chivas USA or DC United vs FC Dallas in the gimmickry name game. PS. I wish Dallas Burn + Frisco Fire = United DFW!
LaParkaMarka Posted July 17, 2007 Report Posted July 17, 2007 It's gone off really well in Toronto, but that's because our huge multicultural population loves soccer. Every world cup that comes around gets more play here than any other sport. Perhaps things would be crazier if the Leafs won a stanley cup, but that would be a smaller but more rabid crowd. Also, the fact that they haven't won in forty years makes a difference too. But a world cup win has EVERYONE going nuts. Anyway, the point is that it's successful in Toronto, but the rest of Canada, not so much. Vancouver and Montreal would work. The problem with Vancouver is that they don't have a modern soccer stadium, but there is a huge multicultural population here that would support a soccer team. Even the minor-league Whitecaps get a fair bit of support.
Guest Vitamin X Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 The Whitecaps play in the USL First Division, which isn't really a minor league, it's an amateur one, and what I suggested the MLS look into merging with. I know that they play for the Cascadia Cup with the Seattle Sounders and our Portland Timbers.
Maztinho Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 What about REAL Salt Lake vs Chivas USA or DC United vs FC Dallas in the gimmickry name game. PS. I wish Dallas Burn + Frisco Fire = United DFW! Sadly, REAL and Chivas sort of have a fued going. For reals.
Guest Tzar Lysergic Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 I hate mascots that aren't s-plural nouns. The Dallas Burn. What the fuck. All great mascots are s-plural nouns.
Your Paragon of Virtue Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 These names are almost as bad as the IFL ones.
Maztinho Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 I hate mascots that aren't s-plural nouns. The Dallas Burn. What the fuck. All great mascots are s-plural nouns. The Dallas Burns? Excellent.
RepoMan Posted July 18, 2007 Report Posted July 18, 2007 The Whitecaps play in the USL First Division, which isn't really a minor league, it's an amateur one, USL D-1 and D-2 are pro leagues. The nobody cares about soccer line is crap. It's a growing niche sport at this point. I'd say it's almost on par with hockey outside of Canada, North East and upper Mid-West. I'm worried that the mega ESPN hype is just going to promot a backlash against soccer rather than to get pepole interested.
Guest • Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 Sure, maybe a few people care about soccer, but it'll never be as big here as baseball and football, so why aspire to that? Just be minor-league family entertainment. Even then, I bet the Kane County Cougars and Schaumburg Flyers outdraw the Chicago Fire.
Guest Vitamin X Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 Chicago Fire's average attendance throughout the years: regular season/playoffs * 1998: 17,887/22,677 * 1999: 16,016/8,197 * 2000: 13,387/8,431 * 2001: 16,388/11,239 * 2002: 12,922/9,434 * 2003: 14,005/14,961 * 2004: 17,153/missed playoffs * 2005: 17,238/11,493 * 2006: 14,088/10,217 * All-Time: 15,419 They won the MLS cup in 1998, by the way. Aside from 2002 and 2006, those are decent numbers, and fairly consistent. They're one of the top three best clubs in MLS, along with the L.A. Galaxy and D.C. United. New England has done well, but always seem to lose in the MLS Cup (They have the Patriots for winning championships, anyways). Those minor league clubs you mentioned don't even have the capacity for half of that, and furthermore is just a bit less than what the Bulls draw. I'm sorry Czech, but your argument holds absolutely no weight. I still think that the only two things that soccer in the U.S. needs are great, marketable stars and television exposure. With Beckham getting lots of hype on ESPN (I don't watch ESPN, so I can't testify as to how much really) that's a good step in the right direction. My problem is that I don't feel any particular attachment to any MLS team, except maybe the Galaxy. I follow the Timbers locally, and sometimes I might watch some European clubs, but that's it.
Guest • Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 They won't get the stars, though. They'll always be in the Premiership or other European leagues, just like the best basketball players will be in the NBA. You'll get some washed-up big names like Beckham or Zidane, but pro soccer will never be played at its highest level in an American league, which means that it is automatically inferior to our big four, and thus undeserving of equivalent attention. Come on. We went through this with Pele. My problem is that I don't feel any particular attachment to any MLS team, except maybe the Galaxy. I follow the Timbers locally, and sometimes I might watch some European clubs, but that's it. And this is another obstacle that cannot be overcome. Our teams don't mean anything. The ancillary sports culture that transcends the game itself doesn't exist, so you're just watching a soccer team play. You're not part of something. You can try, but it's just forced. Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United, et al., have been at this since the 19th century. just a bit less than what the Bulls draw That's an average, and the Bulls have 41 home games to the Fire's 15, so the Bulls are still miles ahead in tickets sold.
Maztinho Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 We are to soccer, what the European basketball leagues are to the NBA. They'll take the creme of the crop, and we get to say we have professional soccer.
Guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 The sport would have grown quite a bit if we didn't get drawn into a group of death last World Cup. David Beckham's not washed up. At all. Right when he got back into the lineup at Real Madrid they went on a tear and won the league. Without him they finish 4th. The obstacle of getting good players in their prime to come here was almost accomplished in the spring when Djibril Cisse nearly signed a deal with the New York Redbulls. Our league may not draw interest, but I think that our national team always will. And I'm fine with that. Actually, I prefer it that way. I like tuning in early on Saturday and Sunday to watch my footy so that I can watch the various other events taking place in the sporting world later in the day without having to choose. If we had the best league, I'd have to choose and I wouldn't want that.
Guest Vitamin X Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 Yeah but on the other hand we'd have better game and the envy of other countries. And that's really the American dream, isn't it? Gaining the envy of others.
Cheech Tremendous Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 Chicago Fire's average attendance throughout the years: regular season/playoffs * 1998: 17,887/22,677 * 1999: 16,016/8,197 * 2000: 13,387/8,431 * 2001: 16,388/11,239 * 2002: 12,922/9,434 * 2003: 14,005/14,961 * 2004: 17,153/missed playoffs * 2005: 17,238/11,493 * 2006: 14,088/10,217 * All-Time: 15,419 Why does their attendence go down in the playoffs? That's not a good trend.
Guest Vitamin X Posted July 19, 2007 Report Posted July 19, 2007 I imagine it has something to do with either ticket prices or that they may have snuck in against a team way better than them. The one season where they won the MLS Cup and I guess seemed to have an overwhelmingly good squad was 98 which is where playoff attendance jumped significantly.
Mike wanna be Posted July 22, 2007 Report Posted July 22, 2007 Just what MLS needed: a 0-0 tie at the half, Chelsea scores early in the second half to take the lead, and they announce that Terry's playing with a toe he broke on Wednesday while Beckham continues to ride the pine with a month-old swollen ankle.
USC Wuz Robbed! Posted July 22, 2007 Report Posted July 22, 2007 Question for the people who have seen Beckham play before, does he usually play like this? He looked so lifeless out there.
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