WWE General Discussion for August 2007

[RepoMan 0]

Raw has been stale as fuck for a long time now, I've only been watching out of habit and nothing better to do on Monday nights. I'm not suprised ratings go down, but big a fall from one week to next is something I've never remembered seeing.

 

I was actually pretty entertained the first hour, the second hour blew expect for me marking out that Cena jobbed. Face it, Lawler vs. Booker as the big advertised match and Carlito vs. Cena in the Main Event isn't going to draw. Cena's been "overcoming the odds" for so long and you just throw a guy who's been the lower mid-card lately and you have no reason to watch. I thought it was one of the worst main events ever in terms of getting pepole interested, though I thought it was a good match and liked the result.

[Fartsauce 0]

I watch Raw nowadays for guys like Kennedy and Umaga. I can't stand Santino Marella and I hope he gets shipped back to OVW. I remember about 10 years ago I would be excited that Raw was coming on later in the evening. Now I find that i'll be sitting here on a Monday night and forget completely that Raw is on . They need to do a storyline they've never attempted before. The reason i believe so many people liked ( or disliked ) the Vince angle is because nobody had ever really done a death story before. What's a compelling storyline that has never been seen?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

They don't need a storyline that's never been attempted before, because the classics still work and will always work. The problem is the people they put in the storylines. There's nobody that everyone wants to get behind to see succeed or to rally against and see get beaten.

[Hawk 34 0]

I continue to insist that ECW is really the only enjoyable brand from WWE right now and it's probably for the easy approach and the brevity. Raw and Smackdown, right now completely drag while ECW, thanks to the shorter time frame comes off as a better and more crisp product. The main event scene is somewhat refreshing as Punk and Burke are always a fun match to watch and Dreamer has surprisingly held up his end of the bargain.

 

The downfall for ECW is obviously the limited roster size but given the fact it only has a hour to present the product, it doesn't hamper the quality too much. That's the opposite effect of TNA, which crams 20 different things in one hour.

 

You don't need insane and over the top angles to maintain quality. Just smart writing for once wouldn't hurt. We've seen it done a few times but it won't be accomplished under the current regime and the forces behind them as well.

[RepoMan 0]

I actualy liked Santino is his role as a whiney heel. I wouldn't mind having him stick around for a while before he's sent down and repackaged. Come to the ring every week, start complaining, and have someone come out and kick his ass. His segment was the most entertaining thing or Raw yesterday.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

What's a compelling storyline that has never been seen?

 

Good question. I honestly can't think of one.

[Hawk 34 0]

What's a compelling storyline that has never been seen?

 

Good question. I honestly can't think of one.

 

A compelling storyline is easy. It's making it work in the context of a wrestling program that hinders any potential. Jimmy Loves Lacey is one of most brilliant stories done in wrestling and works on all levels because the wrestling advances the story itself. The quality of story just makes the in-ring product more meaningful.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

What's a compelling storyline that has never been seen?

 

Good question. I honestly can't think of one.

 

A compelling storyline is easy. It's making it work in the context of a wrestling program that hinders any potential. Jimmy Loves Lacey is one of most brilliant stories done in wrestling and works on all levels because the wrestling advances the story itself. The quality of story just makes the in-ring product more meaningful.

 

But it's a storyline centered around a woman, which has been done before. It's easy to take an older storyline and improve upon it, but to come up with a completely original angle that hasn't been done before is tough.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

A storyline that's never been done is meaningless if fans don't care about the people involved. You can come up with the most creative and imaginative storyline that's never been done before, but unless the fans care about the people you put in that storyline, all that originally will be for nothing.

[RepoMan 0]

I think enough time has passed since the HHH/Angle/Steph triangle they can pull that storyline out of the vault. I was looking forward to a good whodunit? angle with Vince's death (though the pay off was going to end of horible).

[Hawk 34 0]

What's a compelling storyline that has never been seen?

 

Good question. I honestly can't think of one.

 

A compelling storyline is easy. It's making it work in the context of a wrestling program that hinders any potential. Jimmy Loves Lacey is one of most brilliant stories done in wrestling and works on all levels because the wrestling advances the story itself. The quality of story just makes the in-ring product more meaningful.

 

But it's a storyline centered around a woman, which has been done before. It's easy to take an older storyline and improve upon it, but to come up with a completely original angle that hasn't been done before is tough.

 

The very foundation of professional wrestling exists solely on the premise of creating the illusion of dissension between two or more subjects in hopes of creating a false but believable sense of purpose in order to draw and appeal to a crowd of marks. It doesn’t necessarily invoke the need to conceptualize the most original and innovative storyline/angles because as HTQ just pointed out, it’s about the characters and the ability of those characters to make the people care.

 

I used Jimmy Loves Lacey as a recent reference because it was a well done example of what professional wrestling ought to be. Compelling characters with a defined purpose in their actions, reacting to realistic circumstances that captivate a audience not just for the story in and of itself, but rather the actual performance itself. The storyline built the meaning of the matches, and the matches elevated the meaning of the storyline itself. It took tremendous attention to detail to execute it as successfully as it was done. If those five central characters within that storyline didn’t have the ability to captivate that audience, no matter now well written and crafted the plot and angle advancement was, it would have been for naught.

 

The simple act of taking something as formulaic as boy loves girl, girl doesn’t love boy and building it into a epic wrestling storyline that delivered big time is more compelling that trying to captivate people by outlandish storylines. A good writer takes something at it’s most basic and elevates that to an entirely different platform. It has been done in pro wrestling and it needs to be done more often.

[tommytomlin 0]

Why not a nice old massive stable? Taking aside the shock TV, the Attitude era was powered in part by The Corporation. It gave Austin guys to feud with, gave the rub to Mick Foley when he joined and was kicked out, set the stage for The Rock's heel turn and also feuded with dX and The Undertaker. Look at the nWo, The Hart Foundation, The Alliance, The Horsemen. Say what you will about how those stables ended, they did make some compelling television.

 

RAW needs an over-arching storyline, something beyond Cena's feud of the month.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I think enough time has passed since the HHH/Angle/Steph triangle they can pull that storyline out of the vault. I was looking forward to a good whodunit? angle with Vince's death (though the pay off was going to end of horible).

I hate whodunit's because the story always meanders until it reaches some random conclusion designed not to make sense, but to surprise viewers.

 

The big problem IMO is that there are no hot programs whatsoever running right now.

[cabbageboy 0]

Honestly, you know what is happening? We are getting the results of what WWE does in terms of developing talent when they can't just steal it from other places. Or actually with TNA they could steal it but they tend to sign the exact wrong guys from TNA.

 

Honestly, how much WWE talent actually ever was good simply by being in WWE? Most of the guys in the 80s boom period were hardly their own roster (since their own roster, you know, SUCKED). They pillaged the AWA of its talented workers, got some NWA guys like Piper and Steamboat, and guys like Bret and the Bulldogs were acquired from Stampede. The UWF/Mid South gave them DiBiase and JYD, Savage came from Memphis.

 

In the 1990s they really just got lucky, since WCW basically handed them The Undertaker, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, etc. But also during this time they did get fluke luck and developed The Rock, and later Angle as well. Since they actually did develop 2 quality guys, it made them think they produce the same results with everyone. Thus came WWE development leagues like OVW, DSW, FCW, etc. It's like trying to manufacture stars instead of letting it happen organic style.

[veseo 0]

Maybe WWE will go into a signing frenzy and throw a big amount of cash Chris Jericho, Goldberg, Lesnar, Stone Cold to make a few month return ala Foley every year. Probably go for Hogan.

 

I don't really think WWE are in good terms with Hogan now

 

I continue to insist that ECW is really the only enjoyable brand from WWE right now and it's probably for the easy approach and the brevity. Raw and Smackdown, right now completely drag while ECW, thanks to the shorter time frame comes off as a better and more crisp product. The main event scene is somewhat refreshing as Punk and Burke are always a fun match to watch and Dreamer has surprisingly held up his end of the bargain.

 

The ME scene is fine... for now. Once Punk gets the title, get ready for the ECW (and not in the "extreme" meaning) variant of Cena. These "out of nowhere GTS"-es really remind too much of "out of nowhere FU"-s. I hate the way they're booking Punk, even if we set aside the fact Punk is a face.

[Scroby 0]

I continue to insist that ECW is really the only enjoyable brand from WWE right now and it's probably for the easy approach and the brevity. Raw and Smackdown, right now completely drag while ECW, thanks to the shorter time frame comes off as a better and more crisp product. The main event scene is somewhat refreshing as Punk and Burke are always a fun match to watch and Dreamer has surprisingly held up his end of the bargain.

 

The ME scene is fine... for now. Once Punk gets the title, get ready for the ECW (and not in the "extreme" meaning) variant of Cena. These "out of nowhere GTS"-es really remind too much of "out of nowhere FU"-s. I hate the way they're booking Punk, even if we set aside the fact Punk is a face.

Could you kinda explain why you hate the way their booking Punk? How would you book him?

[luke-o 0]

Walkin Dude, think about it. Cena vs. Orton right now is the Perfect Storm of Suck. In feuds like Cena vs. HBK, I think people at least maybe wanted Shawn to win and get one more run with the belt. Or with Cena/Khali, people at least wanted Cena to beat the giant. Cena/Lashley at least could be hyped as "Which unstoppable guy is better?" Cena vs. Orton? Ugh. It's a champion that is stale and needs to lose the title going against a challenger that nobody genuinely wants to win the title for a reason other than to see Cena job the belt. I don't think I've ever seen a situation like that in WWE, where there literally was no good option in a match.

 

I do. I'm a Randy mark.

[Jingus 0]

One of the few, judging by the number of people who didn't watch again after Randy was named the new #1 contender.

[veseo 0]

Could you kinda explain why you hate the way their booking Punk? How would you book him?

 

If there was a big enough roster, I'd book him an arrogant heel. A role he's proven to be able to deliver much better than a generic non-gimmick face, who's always winning.

 

As the roster is too small and he needs to be face, at least use some variety in his matches. I'm tired of always seeing the same finish - "a GTS out of nowhere!". Let him use Anaconda Vice (if Pepsi Plunge is too risky for WWE), make him lose some TV matches (not only PPV ones, where he has to lose for now so that the title gets at least some kind of credibility). All in all, don't turn him into the ECW variant of Cena, if he's not already. The only difference (booking-wise) between them is that is Punk's on top of ECW and that he'll get promoted to SD/RAW, while Cena's on top of the whole company.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The problem is that if they booked Punk as a heel, his act is so unique he'd still get cheered...he'd basically be the 2007 version of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but I don't think that's where they want to go with him. Frankly, I think the "slow burn" type push they're giving him now is a good thing. When he finally wins the ECW Title, it will actually mean something, rather than just hot-shotting it onto him.

 

Maybe a heel stable or group isn't the answer, but they need to do something different. Maybe they could turn Cena heel, but I doubt they want their top draw and merchandise seller getting booed.

 

I guess that's why I go back to the Four Horsemen type concept. Maybe do a group like that, but make it bigger and have it stretch across all three brands. Make Randy Orton the leader (I know, they probably can't trust him with something like that right now), and have him talk about how it's time for the guys of his generation and mentality to take over the company. They're sick of playing by the rules the McMahons laid out, and want to take control of the company. Have Shane try to stop them, and get taken out. Hell, have them stretcher out Coach and Teddy Long. They could feud with Cena, HBK, Triple H, Undertaker, Dreamer, Punk, Lashley, Batista, etc. Play up that it's the guys who respect WWE and what Vince McMahon built, versus the guys that want to take over and change it into their vision. That type of storyline could be stretched out for well over a year, and consist of a ton of different match ups.

 

Then again, they'd probably end up screwing it up, just like the Alliance angle.

[Perfection 0]

pwi

 

TNA announcer Leticia Cline will be appearing on the cover of an upcoming Playboy special edition magazine.

[pochorenella 0]

Some PPV buyrates info, taken from 411mania.com:

 

WWE WrestleMania 23 - 1,188,000 buys (+230,000 compared to last year)

WWE Backlash - 194,000 buys (-19,000 compared to last year)

WWE Judgment Day - 242,000 buys (+4,000 compared to last year)

WWE One Night Stand - 186,000 buys (-108,000 compared to last year)

WWE Vengeance - 243,000 buys (-96,000 compared to last year)

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

With the exception of Mania, those are some terrible buyrates. Those are as damning as Monday's 2.5 rating.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Is this total or just domestically?

[cabbageboy 0]

The tri brand experiment has been a bad idea. They have used it to basically push the same old guys on every PPV, whereas before they rotated between brands. It also has hurt the significance of the 4 major PPVs, or at least stuff like SummerSlam. SS is a PPV that doesn't have a real gimmick to it, whereas Survivor Series can at least have the usual team matches and the Rumble is the Rumble.

[Guest joshtothemaxx]

I think it's amazing that ECW appears to be the best booked show right now and there is exactly nobody on their roster that was worth a shit this time last year. They're running along with jobbers (Big V, Stevie Richards), green as fuck wrestlers/talkers (Nitro, Thorn), Tommy fucking Dreamer, and CM Punk. Impressive.

 

I want stables back. Bad. They just make too much damn sense. There just aren't enough alliances in the WWE today outside of shitty, cookie cutter tag team gimmicks like D&D and Londrick. Rated RKO v. DX was a good start, but they let it die.

 

There is no way Jeff Hardy affected the RAW rating this Monday. I didn't really realize until about 11:30 that he wasn't on the show, so there's no way people knew he wouldn't pop up. It definitely has got to be the bland title scene of Cena v. Orton.

 

Problem is, I'm 99% sure the WWE is just gonna call it in and hope HHH saves their asses (at least temporarily).

[foleyfanforever88 0]

This Monday night, live on Raw, Mr. McMahon strikes back. Find out what this means by tuning in to on Raw at 9/8 CT on USA Network.

 

-WWE.com

 

 

Any idea what this is going to be?

[Nate 0]

This Monday night, live on Raw, Mr. McMahon strikes back. Find out what this means by tuning in to on Raw at 9/8 CT on USA Network.

 

-WWE.com

 

 

Any idea what this is going to be?

 

i'd like to know how WWE will explain his return, the Benoit Raw was more of a breaking kayfabe thing

[MrRant 0]

This Monday night, live on Raw, Mr. McMahon strikes back. Find out what this means by tuning in to on Raw at 9/8 CT on USA Network.

 

-WWE.com

 

 

Any idea what this is going to be?

 

He's going to put a wrestler in carbonite?

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

This Monday night, live on Raw, Mr. McMahon strikes back. Find out what this means by tuning in to on Raw at 9/8 CT on USA Network.

 

-WWE.com

 

 

Any idea what this is going to be?

 

He's going to put a wrestler in carbonite?

 

Aww I was thinking he came back in a Darth Vader suit, then I read this haha