OAO TNA: Hard Justice PPV Thread

[JHawk 0]

Let me clarify something.

 

I saw the main event "swerve" coming a mile away.

 

I was getting so wrapped up in the final five minutes of the match that I forgot she was out there.

 

Then they pissed me off.

 

Nine matches, six non-clean finishes. On a show that people were supposed to pay 30 bucks for.

 

This is why I watched a stream instead of paying for it.

[AlaskanHero 0]

I watched a stream and didn't pay for it because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING they did encouraged me to give them any of my money. Sure Impact had been entertaining leading up to the show, but being entertaining isn't worth shit to a company if it can't convince people to open up their wallets to spend money to watch them.

[Ultimo Dugas 0]

My friend convinced me that we should buy this basically just for the Angle/Joe match. I was sorely disappointed in it. Like all of you I could smell a Karen heel turn but I figured they would at least give us a pretty good match until the bullshit finish. The best match of the entire night was the first one, having Dutt/Lethal go over is obviously just to set up a feud between them and XXX. Overall, this show reminded me why I don't buy wrestling PPV's (even if I did mark out for the Frankensteiner).

[bob_barron 0]

I love reading the reactions to the Joe/Kurt feud. I can't tell if you guys are over-reacting to it or just really upset that Joe lost. The way it sounds how things went, the way the match ended was just an excuse to continue the Kurt vs Joe feud. It's a typical swerve finish but at least it continues the feud.

 

Actually, re-reading the reactions to some of you guys again. TNA did a great job booking the end of the Joe vs Kurt match, it ended up pissing you all off, TNA didn't book anything bad juding by your reactions to Kurt winning the match. Espically JHawk and Cabbageboy's "Joe is getting buried" reaction.

 

Are you high? They made Samoa Joe look like a complete moron and did a "swerve" that everyone could see coming a mile away.

 

People aren't pissed off just b/c Joe lost, it's because he looked awful in losing and it was the latest screwjob in a series of them.

[Steviekick 0]

If they were set on doing the Karen swerve, they should have just done it earlier in the match.

[cd213 0]

I was highly entertained by the PPV. Sure there were some parts of the show that I could do without, but I enjoyed it. For the most parts the matches weren't bad. I think I was more upset about Abyss winning the match then I was at the swerve in the final match. I've never been a big Joe fan, and don't care if he ever wins the title. If he does, good, but if he doesn't, oh well. And I agree with the person that said if he doesn't resign, he shouldn't get shit. That's all TNA needs is for someone to win the title then walk out on the company with the belt. Keep working on Storm and Harris moving into the title picture and I'm fine with it.

 

And god forbid Pacman gets beat up off screen. The same people that bitch about that are the same people that bitch about him even coming in. Don't you get it, if he can't be touched on screen why not put him out off screen and have him written out of any action. It's the safe way to play it. TNA messed up by not getting the ok for it before hand, but they handled it the correct way after that. Now they can have Killings vs whoever Pacman gets to be in his corner, or they can get rid of him all together.

 

I love how serious people get when it comes to shows like this. "Fuck TNA for (insert complaint)." It's a fucking show, it's not real life! To make matter worse, if Vince and WWE do the same thing, people seem to love it, when TNA does, "Fuck them." I know I'm the "TNA Mark" and "they can do no wrong by me" but that's not true, they have done stuff that I haven't liked, but I watch them for the entertainment factor and I don't take everything so seriously.

[Jingus 0]

with the belt. Keep working on Storm and Harris moving into the title picture and I'm fine with it.

Not gonna happen. They've teased it a few times, but it's pretty obvious that TNA's glass ceiling is pretty goddamned air tight, and they've only got a "1 new guy per every 2 years" quota for the heavyweight belt.

 

And god forbid Pacman gets beat up off screen. The same people that bitch about that are the same people that bitch about him even coming in. Don't you get it, if he can't be touched on screen why not put him out off screen and have him written out of any action. It's the safe way to play it. TNA messed up by not getting the ok for it before hand, but they handled it the correct way after that. Now they can have Killings vs whoever Pacman gets to be in his corner, or they can get rid of him all together.

1.They never should've brought him in at all.

2. At a time when TNA is crying poor and cutting costs across the board, they signed Jones to the highest paying contract in the company's history.

3. Maybe they should've had someone read Pacman's contract, or at least ask the Titans if it was okay?

4. I hate the offscreen attack because it's so obviously phony. If it didn't happen on-camera, it didn't happen, that's the fundamental rule of wrestling on television.

 

I love how serious people get when it comes to shows like this. "Fuck TNA for (insert complaint)." It's a fucking show, it's not real life!

It's not real life?! Dude, if I counted on my hands the number of people I knew personally who left their homes and moved to Nashville in order to work for TNA and then got fucked over or fired, I'd run out of fingers. TNA has blatantly showed time and time again that they only really care about anyone who's friends with Jarrett/Dixie/Russo/etc, and everyone else can drop dead as far as they care.

[JHawk 0]

I love how serious people get when it comes to shows like this. "Fuck TNA for (insert complaint)." It's a fucking show, it's not real life! To make matter worse, if Vince and WWE do the same thing, people seem to love it, when TNA does, "Fuck them." I know I'm the "TNA Mark" and "they can do no wrong by me" but that's not true, they have done stuff that I haven't liked, but I watch them for the entertainment factor and I don't take everything so seriously.

 

I'm supposed to be entertained by that? Mission failed.

 

The live crowd's supposed to be entertained by that? Final angle aside, I heard "same old shit" chants twice last night during the undercard by the Orlando crowd, and they normally drink the Kool-Aid TNA feeds them and ask if there is any left for a second helping. And when Karen "turned" on Joe, up went the "Fire Russo" chants.

 

They're alienating their core audience now, and free admission or not, there's only so far you can push the core audience before even they go, "Fuck this, I'm done."

 

[Mad Scientist 0]

I love how serious people get when it comes to shows like this. "Fuck TNA for (insert complaint)." It's a fucking show, it's not real life! To make matter worse, if Vince and WWE do the same thing, people seem to love it, when TNA does, "Fuck them." I know I'm the "TNA Mark" and "they can do no wrong by me" but that's not true, they have done stuff that I haven't liked, but I watch them for the entertainment factor and I don't take everything so seriously.

 

I'm supposed to be entertained by that? Mission failed.

 

The live crowd's supposed to be entertained by that? Final angle aside, I heard "same old shit" chants twice last night during the undercard by the Orlando crowd, and they normally drink the Kool-Aid TNA feeds them and ask if there is any left for a second helping. And when Karen "turned" on Joe, up went the "Fire Russo" chants.

 

They're alienating their core audience now, and free admission or not, there's only so far you can push the core audience before even they go, "Fuck this, I'm done."

 

I anticipated crap, but I'm sad to hear that TNA delivered as promised. When your diehard people who pay good money to see your live PPV level event chant against your WRITERS or BOOKERS and not your HEELS, then you have buggered the pooch. That should never happen, ever. TNA is not the only company to ever do that kind of crap, but they're the company that can least afford to do it...and therefore their errors are all the more glaring and saddening. If the WWE does it one night, or even 2 or 3 nights, it won't be on the next night, and they can absorb the loss much more easily. TNA can't.

 

 

[Jingus 0]

By the way, did you know that despite being arrested SIX times in the past two years, Jones was signed to the single highest-paying contract in TNA history? Even when long-timers like Lance Hoyt are being told to stay home because of "cutting costs"? And Pacman gets his own personal Winnebego for a dressing room, while the undercard guys all have to share one double-wide trailer parked out back of the building?

 

I'm not making any of this up. These are true examples of TNA's endless arrogance and stupidity.

[Superfly Snuka 0]

By the way, did you know that despite being arrested SIX times in the past two years, Jones was signed to the single highest-paying contract in TNA history? Even when long-timers like Lance Hoyt are being told to stay home because of "cutting costs"? And Pacman gets his own personal Winnebego for a dressing room, while the undercard guys all have to share one double-wide trailer parked out back of the building?

 

I'm not making any of this up. These are true examples of TNA's endless arrogance and stupidity.

 

I totally agree with almost every anti-TNA comment in this thread, but this is a silly point. Pacman Jones in one week brought more attention to TNA than Lance Hoyt ever has in how many years? It's stupid on one level since he's never going to be a real wrestler, but no one is ever going to turn into a PPV b/c of Lance Hoyt...not even his mother.

[cabbageboy 0]

The booking of TNA and WWE are at the opposite ends of the spectrum right now. TNA is all about doing crazy, convoluted shit with people doing heel turns, ref bumps, run ins galore. WWE has been almost all about clean finishes with no weird stuff. The irony is that both are achieving the same goal, namely putting a bunch of heels over and pissing fans off to no end.

 

First off with Joe, I wonder if he's leaving due to bad booking or if they are booking him bad because they think he's leaving. Chicken or the egg there. But the thing is with Joe is you only have so many chances to put this guy over as a champion and a major star. I can see doing this goofy Karen storyline if this was the 1st or 2nd Angle/Joe match. But this was a match with literally everything in the company riding on it, and they book THIS sort of shit?

 

Does anyone know where Joe exactly fits in at this point? Abyss gets his lame duck shot and will job with a run in. Eventually Jarrett will return as the conquering hero and get his belt back. Hell, do you realize that my dad asks me every week (whenever TNA comes up) when they are going to put the belt back on Jarrett?

 

So where does Joe fit into this if not to be buried or released? Would they seriously do Joe vs. Angle AGAIN at BFG? Even tossing the lame booking aside none of their matches have been so amazing as to justify this.

[Jingus 0]

Pacman Jones in one week brought more attention to TNA than Lance Hoyt ever has in how many years?

Negative attention. The ratings went down.

 

I'm not saying Hoyt is anything special, he's basically Test with a moonsault, but I find it awesomely double-standardy that TNA claims it's too poor to pay Christy Hemme and friggin' Hoyt while they hand over ever-increasing piles of cash to guys like Angle and Jones who don't make that money back for the company.

[Zack Malibu 0]

To play Devil's Advocate, nobody is making TNA money at this point. They have the upper echelon of stars that occasionally spike buys (Sting's return, Joe vs. Angle 1), but not one star in that company is a consistent draw. Not to mention that cutting loose/cutting back on guys like the Lance Hoyt's and David Young's and The Naturals is not necessarily a bad move on their part, as they needed to trim some dead weight sooner or later. It's better than people like Eric Young or James Storm or Alex Shelley getting cut.

 

Pacman Jones is very much the Mike Tyson angle for TNA. If they can't work out the legal problems than it won't be as effective (and in the worst case scenario, utterly pointless, booking-wise), but they got their name out there, and that could be worth the investment.

 

I've long been 50/50 on Russo. He's had some good contributions, and I admire the man in the sense that he tries his best to find something for everybody to do, but enough's enough. Either rein him in or let him go, because his shit's not flying these days. Some ideas may sound good in theory, but they're not clicking in practice.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Even assuming Pacman's appearance did bring in some new viewers, look at what they saw. A terrible soap opera with a twist that Ray Charles could see coming. And that's in the condition he's in now. TNA can spend all the money they want on celebrities in their desperate attempt to get people to notice them, but it won't matter unless they put on a product that keeps the people around and willing to spend money.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Pacman is NOT Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was a world-famous boxer known to have a bad temper and being prone to violent outbursts. Pacman Jones is a semi-well known NFL player who got into legal trouble for causing a ruckus at a few stripjoints. Pacman Jones is not Mike Tyson. Pacman Jones is not Mike Tyson. Trivium is not Metallica. Andy Samberg is not Adam Sandler. They're all famous, just the latter is much more famous than the former. That's why Pacman will not do for TNA what Tyson did for the WWF: Tyson is a household name, Pacman is not. That, and the WWF booking up to Tyson's involvement was helping them gain viewers, with Tyson's involvement helping to put it over the top.

 

Yes, Lance Hoyt is not a draw. Yes, nobody in TNA has been proven as a draw. But who - outside of cast-off's from WWE and has-been's from WCW - have been given the chance to become draws? Nobody. And with the horrible booking TNA has had for the better part of the last year, who in their right fucking mind WOULD WATCH?!

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

I thought I had read somewhere that Joe said at an ROH he was injured due to tripping over some bad booking (aka TNA's Bad Booking).

 

 

As for the PPV, it's one I'll be quick to forget, it'll still be downloaded and stored in the monthly archives though for the sake of it. There wasn't much, if anything, to write home about. I'm trying think of what happened last night, and I can't put a finger on anything, all I can remember is Abyss getting beat senseless again, yet getting his annual #1 contenders chance. This PPV did manage one thing, it managed to further confirm that TNA is slowly heading down the road of WCW.

[Zack Malibu 0]

Pacman is NOT Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was a world-famous boxer known to have a bad temper and being prone to violent outbursts. Pacman Jones is a semi-well known NFL player who got into legal trouble for causing a ruckus at a few stripjoints. Pacman Jones is not Mike Tyson. Pacman Jones is not Mike Tyson. Trivium is not Metallica. Andy Samberg is not Adam Sandler. They're all famous, just the latter is much more famous than the former. That's why Pacman will not do for TNA what Tyson did for the WWF: Tyson is a household name, Pacman is not. That, and the WWF booking up to Tyson's involvement was helping them gain viewers, with Tyson's involvement helping to put it over the top.

 

Yes, Lance Hoyt is not a draw. Yes, nobody in TNA has been proven as a draw. But who - outside of cast-off's from WWE and has-been's from WCW - have been given the chance to become draws? Nobody. And with the horrible booking TNA has had for the better part of the last year, who in their right fucking mind WOULD WATCH?!

Show me where I compared Pacman to Mike Tyson. I said it was TNA's attempt at a Tyson angle, namely taking the hot topic controversial sports star of the time and bringing him in for the media rub. I wasn't talking about fame or money-drawing ability, just the fact that it's a similar situation and an attempt to get their name out there. Granted the WWF was well-known when Tyson came around, but that angle was one of the cornerstones of the Attitude era.

 

As far as building people up, TNA has done a damn good job of building up Samoa Joe and AJ Styles (just off the top of my head) into familiar names amidst the non-smarks...TNA's problem lies in the fact that they were either too shy to put the belt on AJ despite marketing him as their franchise player (and now he's little more than a faction lackey), or in Joe's case, didn't pull the trigger when they should have. They were on their way to doing it with Monty Brown too, but a combination of a stupid booking decision (his heel turn) and his own lack of enthusiasm in the business killed that quick.

[2GOLD 0]

 

TNA does that too much. Build up someone to get the title, have you begging them to put the belt on the guy, have the crowd fully behind the guy and then failing to deliver and thus killing his character dead.

 

Did it with Monty. Did it with Killings. Did it with Daniels. and now they have done it many times with Joe. He is better off in ROH, at least there he'll be built to a title and GET a title run.

 

The TNA booking group tries to stretch stuff waaay too far and end up breaking the rubber band everytime.

[cabbageboy 0]

Thing is, even if Pacman didn't have the various contract issues what exactly would TNA do with him that would be so interesting? Feuding with Ron Killings at this point isn't going to mean much to people.

 

Does anyone else find the booking of Abyss to be quite similar to Kane? We all realize he's TNA's attempt at a Kane/UT/Mankind type character, but mostly Kane. What I mean by similar to Kane is that he's that constant upper card guy that mostly just jobs to the champion and gets his annual lame duck title shot.

 

My advice to TNA: Stop all the fucking run ins. Or at least cut back on this sort of thing. They never seem to have a clean finish to a PPV, which is fine when a particular match calls for it. But doing it month after month is enough to wear down any fan. I for one have zero desire to see that PPV next month, since going in I already know that Mitchell's new man will attack Abyss and cost him the match.

 

Russo doesn't seem to know how to do his own booking at this point. Kane costing UT a match against Shawn Michaels is something that had immense importance, since it led to the entire Kane/UT feud (as well as HBK/Austin). What point do any of these run ins in TNA really serve? Christian's heel turn on Sting....what did that accomplish? Karen Angle last night...what did it really accomplish?

[2GOLD 0]

 

If they can use it to springboard THE TRUTH back to his TRUTH character and lead him to the World Title at Bound for Glory, I'll be fine. But again I know they will build him up, make him into this awesome guy who you are 100% behind and then in his big must win or he loses the crowd match, he'll get pinned because of a run-in.

 

If the whole Pacman thing leads to an ACTUAL Ron "The Truth" Killing run with the title..and I mean a long one while they build up someone wisely then I'll approve. Wasting "The Truth" is the stupidest thing they have done since the waste of the Monty Brown and Joe builds.

[Boxer 0]

So how was the media attention in your area? My local paper ran a little blurb about Pacman in TNA. It didn't name the pay per view, just said he got attacked backstage and was held back by the "police". I'm surprised it actually made my local sports section. The only Wrestling I can remember in my sports section was Benoit and that's pretty much about it.

[Jingus 0]

back to his TRUTH character

lead him to the World Title at Bound for Glory,

build him up, make him into this awesome guy who you are 100% behind and then in

his big must win or he loses the crowd match

Are you kidding? They won't even do THAT much with him. He'll just job to Jones (or more likely whoever Jones manages, at this point) and then vanish again. Every time some outside celebrity is brought into TNA, they always end up beating the shit out of one of the wrestlers. (And no, Johnny Fairplay doesn't count, I mean REAL celebrities.)

[Celtic Guardian 0]

So how was the media attention in your area? My local paper ran a little blurb about Pacman in TNA. It didn't name the pay per view, just said he got attacked backstage and was held back by the "police". I'm surprised it actually made my local sports section. The only Wrestling I can remember in my sports section was Benoit and that's pretty much about it.

 

Embarrassed male news anchor reads the acronym "TNA," gets look of death from female news anchor.

[Zack Malibu 0]

Actually, I don't believe Jones and Killings were to feud, but rather somehow develop respect for each other and form a tag team. The reports were that Pac Man was hinting that he was going to be competing for the World Tag Team Titles at some point. So if he's able to wrestle (or even if he's not), odds are that it's going to come out that it wasn't Killings who jumped him backstage, but someone else, and that's how Killings and he forge an alliance.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

I'm pretty much done with wrestling. TNA has dumped on every talented worker on the roster and turned into WCW. WWE is run by a sick piece of shit who I can't stomach giving money or viewer ratings to. And my new work schedule conflicts with my lucha viewing. It's really sad to look at how much potential TNA had a year ago at this time, and how none of it was even close to met 12 months later.

[cabbageboy 0]

Ha, TNA put the world title back on The Truth? The guy has been so buried for so long that no one would even buy it. Hell if anything he's been on the outs with the company and wanted his release.

 

I actually can see Killings and Pacman forming a tag team if they can ever clear up the Titans mess. But that said, TNA has way too many credible tag teams to dick around with these guys getting title shots.

 

Lastly, TNA desperately needs to change their name. It's always been a stupid name for the promotion itself....it was a better name for the TV show when it was still the NWA. I'm probably the only one who actually wishes they were still the NWA, since that's at least a real promotion name if nothing else. When newscasters say "TNA" on the news and seem embarrassed to hardly get the letters out, that's a problem.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Whoever just compared the cancerous mole that is TNA to the greatness of WCW is delusional.

[razazteca 0]

The company should add a W to its name now repeat after me T-NAW not feeling it...

[Superfly Snuka 0]

Pacman Jones in one week brought more attention to TNA than Lance Hoyt ever has in how many years?

Negative attention. The ratings went down.

 

I'm not saying Hoyt is anything special, he's basically Test with a moonsault, but I find it awesomely double-standardy that TNA claims it's too poor to pay Christy Hemme and friggin' Hoyt while they hand over ever-increasing piles of cash to guys like Angle and Jones who don't make that money back for the company.

 

I understand what you're saying, but even "negative" attention (as long as it's not Benoit type attention) is good if it's on a national level (ESPN,CNN,headline news, MSNBC, which it has all been mentioned on), esp. for a small company like TNA. I equate this to when the WWE brought in convicted rapist Mike Tyson in. It brought attention to the company.

EDIT: Zack made the tyson point a copule of posts above. Guess i should read all the posts first.