WWE 24/7 Discussion Thread - September 2007

[Black Lushus 0]

You're right, he doesn't...at least not by choice. Wasn't the original plan for Hart to drop the title to Austin at WM14 before Shawn Michaels and politics came in to play?

[cabbageboy 0]

What I've never understood is this: What was HBK supposed to do at that WM if Austin and Bret had the WWF title match? I don't think a 3 way would have had the same impact.

[Guest]

The NWA show this time around was really good at the beginning, but it tapered off at the end. The first hour was about as good of a TV show you could watch in that time period.

 

Flair lacing into Crockett was great... as was the 6 man match that featured 3 of the 4 soon to be Horsemen.

Dusty's promo was the high point of the show for me. As much as I don't like his in-ring work or anything he did in the WWF, the guy sure could cut a promo in the 80's. Of course, I ignored that he said 100,000 people were at Starrcade.

[Black Lushus 0]

What I've never understood is this: What was HBK supposed to do at that WM if Austin and Bret had the WWF title match? I don't think a 3 way would have had the same impact.

 

Something with Owen maybe or maybe a DX vs. Owen/Bulldog tag match? UT was wrapped up with Kane so that would have been out.

[bob_barron 0]

Wow, Rey just KILLED Psicosis in that Nitro match

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

HHH worked his ass off in that Flash Funk match. German Suplex!

[bob_barron 0]

That last segment on RAW was fantastic

[Black Lushus 0]

That last segment on RAW was fantastic

 

absolutely, Bobby...my only gripe was HBK's random appearance. I mean, I know he's part of the ME card group, but he just kinda comes out, wanders around, looks completely stoned/drunk, picks up a chair and a piece of cage piping and really just doesn't do anything of note.

[cabbageboy 0]

As fun as that main event segment was from that Raw, I really don't see how it could have drawn any money. I've often thought that wrestling needs to be an issue of "We want this guy to win, we want this guy to lose." That Raw main event was wildly entertaining but it did a terrible job at hyping WM (which actually did a lower buyrate than friggin UNCENSORED that year). After that match was over it seemed like all 4 of the main event guys were a bunch of assholes not worth getting behind. Sid needed help to retain, Bret came off like a whiny pussy who couldn't win even with help, Austin was still a psychopath, and UT screwed Bret over.

 

At WM, who were we supposed to want to win those matches?

[bob_barron 0]

The big problem with the main event is it kills the point of a cage match. The point of the cage match is supposed to end a feud and prevent interference, and that match did the opposite.

 

I liked HBK coming out and not knowing what to do. Whose side is he on?

 

Bret standing in the ring ready to kill someone, only for Austin to come on the screen and call him a loser is great stuff.

 

And wow, this NWA episode goes on forever

[10 Pounds 0]

Wow, Rey just KILLED Psicosis in that Nitro match

 

Psychosis was dropped right on his head on that hurricanrana (or hurrucurana [/Joey Styles] )but Norton's powerbomb on Chavo was nastier.

 

Speaking of Nitro, the fan who threw the beer at Scott Hall must have been the same guy who threw Austin's beers in the Attitude era. He completely nailed him.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah, the beer hit on Hall there was right up there with the hilarious smack on Heyman after he screwed RVD out of the title last year. Heyman's was worse though, he really took it right in the face.

 

These Raws are fascinating though. You can tell they see some money in Austin but with the current Bret storyline his character is still such a psycho redneck asshole that it's hard to fully get behind him. That was the drawback of the Bret "pro Canada" angle, since Bret wasn't a total heel so it was difficult as a fan to know what to think of it. Austin the drunk American redneck vs. Bret the patriotic Canadian was an angle people couldn't quite wrap their heads around enough for it to translate into money. Whereas Austin the blue collar redneck who overcame injury and hostile management vs. HBK, the total douchebag, did draw.

 

That makes for an interesting question: If Bret Hart had just gone full heel and they didn't do the Canadian part of the angle, would it have drawn better?

[Diamonddust 0]

The Raws we're getting on 24/7 show an interesting point in the WWE's history. Regardless what they were doing, they were going to get their asses handed to them by Nitro. Nitro and WCW had built up so much momentum that it really didn't matter how good a show was on the other channel. Like the previous poster said, they did see money in Austin at this point, and that's what led to the double turn at Wrestlemania. I honestly think Vince was thinking for the future instead of the present with Austin. He basically had a year where not a lot of people were watching him, and it allowed for the Hart Foundation/Austin/Canada vs. USA angle, which let Austin do a lot of stuff to further develop the character. It didn't produce in terms of ratings, but it generated MONSTER heat at its peak and the Raws were generally a lot better than Nitro. It also let him determine whether or not wrestling crowds were ready to cheer a guy who acted like a total heel in Austin. They did, however, throw some face characteristics on him - namely refusing to quit in the I Quit match at Wrestlemania, which produced the standing ovation and Austin chant at the end of the match. The plan for WM14 was Austin/Hart where the Austin era would officially begin, but we all know how that turned out.

 

Anyways, as a result of what they were doing, they slowly started chipping away at the massive Nitro machine. WCW rested on their laurels and botched the Sting/Hogan feud in the end, and right at that time... you had the WWE building Wrestlemania 14 with the Austin/Michaels/Mike Tyson hype. The fact that a guy named Rocky Maivia was allowed to get over as a heel didn't hurt things in long run either.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The European Raw with Owen vs Bulldog getting a 1.9 compared to the Nitro with one of the worst segments in history getting a 3.X pretty much shows that WCW's 1996 momentum could not be stopped - the best booked Raw with the most star power and the best matches would still have lost to a 1997 Nitro (case in point: MSG Raw in September 97 - I don't recall what Nitro was doing that night but to me, Cactus/HHH and Austin stunning Vince should have taken the night) whether there were shades of gray or not. In something that perhaps WWE of 2007 could learn a lesson form, 1997 was about BUILDING the momentum, not sprinting ahead. They gave their storylines and characters time to develop despite losing the ratings war, but by the time WrestleMania XIV rolled around, it was the talk of my high school (and, note on that, Raw didn't win a ratings victory until AFTER that hugely successful PPV).

[Guest]

In the end, WCW having so much momentum and starpower really did them in (as we all know, making this the most obvious statement in history). Their main-eventers didn't put over a single younger guy all year. Anyone getting buildup ran straight into the glass ceiling. It's easiest to see at the end of the year. Eddie was getting to at the point where he should have got a main-event push. The only guy WCW was able to build through this time period and get to the main event was the Giant. And I'm sure we all know the reasons for that. But then again, the Giant wasn't built up. He started at the top, drifted to the midcard and found his way back up again once the NWO angle began.

 

WCW only built up Sting v. Hogan. They rushed through everything else (or sat on it for a year and a half, like what I'm about to mention) before and after. I loved what they were doing with Raven. Where the hell did that go? He got screwed more than anyone else.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah in Sept. 1997 Raw was doing mid 2s or so and Nitro was hovering near the 4.0 mark. It might sound strange but I don't recall much ever watching WCW in 1997. I didn't hate what they were doing, it was just that I was so compelled by Raw that I rarely changed the channel. I didn't care about ratings and all that, so it always bewildered me whenever I'd hear Schiavone say stuff like "Nitro is THE #1 wrestling show each and every week!"

 

You know, would Austin have gotten as over without the notorious Owen match? Cause to me him coming back from a very serious neck injury was pretty inspiring stuff. It was a Faustian bargain though...in exchange for the heat it got him, it shortened his career considerably.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I think it might have been interesting to see what would have happened in Canada if WCW and WWE aired on different networks at the same time. I would imagine Nitro (especially during the Hart Foundation era) would not have fared well here. I don't remember much about specific Nitro episodes due to their odd aiting schedule on TSN. At this point in the MNW, I believe TSN is still airing Raw's first run at 12am eastern for 2 hours (edited to 90 minutes when real sports run long) with the replay that the school kids watched being 4pm on Tuesday, so Nitro would be airing Wednesday afternoon in Canada. A lot of weeks I just didn't bother watching a full Nitro.

[cabbageboy 0]

I just now realized what it was about the Austin/Sid match that doesn't make sense to me. The part with Austin trying to help Bret. Bear in mind that Austin cost Bret the title just a couple of weeks earlier in his previous match with Sid. What was he thinking when he did that? If he simply hadn't done that then he gets to face Bret for the title at WM. And really since UT was already named #1 contender I don't see how he wouldn't just get the winner of Bret/Sid in the cage match anyway.

[Nate 0]

If its ok I can go ahead and start the October thread

[Guest flairfan]

If its ok I can go ahead and start the October thread

 

well, there is still a week left in Sept. Problably should wait till Sept is over..

[Black Lushus 0]

I just now realized what it was about the Austin/Sid match that doesn't make sense to me. The part with Austin trying to help Bret. Bear in mind that Austin cost Bret the title just a couple of weeks earlier in his previous match with Sid. What was he thinking when he did that? If he simply hadn't done that then he gets to face Bret for the title at WM. And really since UT was already named #1 contender I don't see how he wouldn't just get the winner of Bret/Sid in the cage match anyway.

 

I never understood it either. UT, being the #1 contender, shouldn't care who wins. In fact, you could rationale that he would have wanted Bret Hart to win because he's faced him before and knows what to expect.

 

He never faced Sid before WM13, at least not officially, right?

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't think UT ever faced Sid before WM 13. Anyway the storyline they were going for was that the matches at WM were set in stone. UT faced Sid either way, Bret faced Austin either way. Based on that UT's motives made sense I guess, but I don't get why Austin one week costs Bret the belt and then a couple weeks later tries to help him win it back. Austin seems like a complete moron if you think about it.

[garfieldsnose 0]

Was the Submission Match at WrestleMania 13 announced before Austin cost Bret the belt? I haven't been keeping a close eye on the MNW, I just record them and sometimes don't even watch them as I record them, so I don't really remember. They could have made the Bret/Austin match at WM 13 AFTER Austin cost Bret the belt, in which it would make a lot more sense he wanted to help Bret win back the belt.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah but Austin at that point knew two things for sure:

 

1. UT was the #1 contender, so he wasn't getting a shot at Sid.

2. Shawn Michaels was hurt, so that potential match was out.

 

By simple process of elimination Austin had to know he was facing Bret at WM. Who else is there for him to wrestle other than the guy he had been feuding with for months?

[garfieldsnose 0]

Maybe he realized it after he cost Bret the belt. This is fun.

[Black Lushus 0]

wait a tic...was Russo booking at this point?

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm pretty sure Russo was booking at that point, or dare I say maybe someone else was and then Russo starting booking more at the point where it became Raw is War.

[Guest]

He was on the writing team. He wasn't head booker like later in the year, I believe.

[10 Pounds 0]

I've read somewhere that the first true Russo show was the one where Austin attacks Bret in the ambulance.

 

I could be wrong though.

[zappafrank 0]

I got around to watching the pre-WM 13 ep of RAW (had it on tape for a few weeks), and having never seen Bret's post-match promo, I was excited to get a chance only to be disappointed b/c WWE felt the need to bleep out Bret's swearing. I don't understand why they feel the need to do that, esp since the rating probably covers swearing and it's on a pay service, anyway. I've heard the exact same language on F/X just last week, for God's sake!

 

Also, would it be fair to say that Taker/Sid was a face/face match-up, even though Taker was the "facier" of the two? I never realized that Sid was basically booked as a face (or more like a tweener) for his run b/w SurSer and WM. I knew he was a face before he won the title, and I knew he was a face after WM, but I thought the whole "attacking Jose Lothario and his kid" stuff was designed to get him heel heat, and it didn't really work.