Approaching the 10th anniversary of the...

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Bret was originally supposed to stay until IYH: DX, but the Survivor Series issues and Michaels refusing to job to ANYONE (not just Bret) complicated things.

 

I think a lot of people are forgetting that part and that Shawn would also frequently bring it up on Raw, that he wasn't 'laying down' for anyone. They also forget that Bret eventually did agree to job to Shawn, as long as it wasn't in Canada. I think considering Shawn's attitude towards losing, that he refused to do it at all and regularly bragged about that fact on television, that Bret's request was more than reasonable.

 

I wonder how many people who are criticizing Bret also criticized Rock for not wanting to properly put over Jericho or Booker, and it might have been both.

[alfdogg 0]

IIRC, Rock's reason for not doing a program with Booker was more or less because he knew HHH would just bury him afterwards (much like with Jericho), wasn't it?

[The Buzz 0]

That was the reasoning I hear many posters give at the time that the programs were rejected by The Rock, I don't remember ever reading anything from a credible source on that being the case. I believe it stemmed from The Rock giving Hurricane a decent rub, only for him to be squashed by HHH a few weeks later.

[garfieldsnose 0]

I don't buy Bret was in the right here. Neither was Shawn. But refusing to do your job (no pun intended) is just unprofessional. HBK wasn't the one asked to job first.

 

 

I wouldn't really side with either on this matter. Both were stubborn and ignorant at the same time.

[Bix 0]

Bret Hart had it written into his contract that he had reasonable creative control (reasonable meaning that he and Vince had to agree) over his character for the last 30 days of his contract.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

That's what I've been arguing for years now. You can't fault a guy who wanted to exercise a LEGAL CLAUSE in his contract. It might have been markish of him to not want to job the belt to his most hated enemy in his home country, but he had legal right to do so.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

On an unrelated note, was it ever confirmed that Bret had an affair with Sunny, or was it just a rumor?

 

From Tammy's mouth, they were just friends. Shawn was the one who had the affair with Sunny.

 

 

Well there was the incident at a recent autograph signing where Sunny was running around screaming that she was the best pussy that Bret ever had.

[Diamonddust 0]

On an unrelated note, was it ever confirmed that Bret had an affair with Sunny, or was it just a rumor?

 

From Tammy's mouth, they were just friends. Shawn was the one who had the affair with Sunny.

 

 

Well there was the incident at a recent autograph signing where Sunny was running around screaming that she was the best pussy that Bret ever had.

 

Didn't hear about that one. I was going off the shoot interview she did after Candido's death where she went into detail he relationship with Bret (Close friends) and Shawn (Full on lovers).

[RedJed 0]

HBK wasn't the one asked to job first.

 

Actually I believe he was asked first to do the job before Bret.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I'd always been of the school of thought that neither side was right, but Bret was less wrong.

 

It's sad we'll probably never know the whole story from both sides.

[edgehead69 0]

I don't believe HBK wouldnt Job to ANYONE....

It's Vince's Company and whatever he says, goes!

Bret just had a big ego like he was a hero...

He couldnt do the professional thing and dropped the damn belt and but his ego aside!!

 

[Bix 0]

Bret Hart was willing to drop the belt at any time to any person other than specifically to Michaels in Canada. Michaels elsewhere was fine.

 

And yes, Michaels was refusing to job to anyone, which led to his European win and then the title being switched to Owen Hart the way it was.

[cabbageboy 0]

Frankly, Michaels should have been fired over taking such a stance. What kind of asshole in pro wrestling flat out states he will not lose a match to anyone? It turned out well enough, they got a few more months out of HBK but somehow I doubt Vince and Co. missed him all that much. The only reason Shawn got away with that crap is because Vince was already going to lose Bret, so he probably didn't want to lose Shawn at that point too.

 

For the life of me I don't see why they didn't make that Euro title match a DQ schmozz. That's the match that needed the run ins, not Montreal. Michaels had no use for the European title, and it prevents jobbing the Bulldog in the UK and doing damage to international business.

 

With that said, I agree with Shawn in not wanting to job to Bret. Why the fuck would he agree to job to a guy who was finishing his time in a promotion, especially when he would end up as champ anyway in time for WM? In a deranged way Shawn being such a prick about jobbing made his character such an asshole heel that when it came time for WM (when he 100% had to job to Austin) there was huge money to be drawn.

[RedJed 0]

Keep in mind how Michaels was going back and forth as well about doing the job to Austin as well too at Mania XIV too though the day of the show, and how Taker stepped in, etc. It was an ongoing issue with him that didn't stop until he was forced out of the company via the back injury. Fortunately when he came back, that hasn't been an issue anymore.

 

I'm torn on the Montreal "who should have done the job" thing still. Considering before Bret was even going to leave the company, Michaels already had put his foot down on doing the job. So Bret leaving or not leaving wasn't even an issue at that point to Michaels. With Bret then about to leave the company, Michaels just had more fuel to his fire that he shouldnt be losing to him. Ultimately, however you slice it, there should be some criticism given to Vince for awarding such ridiculous behaviour by Michaels with a title run after Bret left, anyway you slice it. Taker probably should have been the guy to get the belt again briefly upon Bret leaving, with Michaels surely getting the belt well before Mania (say they still did the casket match at Rumble and Michaels still could have gone over there then, winning the belt) but I just thought, given the situation, it was always completely tacky for Vince to give Shawn that belt right then and there. A transition should have been done to make a point to him that Michaels can't just fucking say and do as he pleased, compromising plans and the like. THAT fact, more than the concern of Bret not doing the "company right" and leaving to WCW without dropping the belt, should have been the prevalent issue that Vince should have dealt with first and foremost.

 

Ultimately, I think somehow, someway, the company should have forced Bret to sign a short term agreement from when it was agreed upon that he would leave that in no way, shape, or form, would he leave WWE until said date, say, a month after Survivor Series. Then things could have ended pretty amicably for the most part. Survivor Series could have ended in some sort of schmoz with Bret winning by DQ or something. Then from there, you build to a triple threat (or the proposed fatal four way that was the running idea at the time) with the two and whoever else, and Bret could have dropped the belt to whomever, hell he wouldnt have even needed to do the job to Michaels in that context (he could have dropped it to Taker which could have led at Rumble to Taker dropping it to Shawn), NOR would have Bret even had to lay down for Shawn at all, as Michaels could have beaten someone else in the match (say, Undertaker again) to win it.

 

It seemed like the company always used the excuse that they were afraid Bret was going to "run away" as champion and go to WCW if he didnt job at Survivor Series. By having him agree on paper to a short term extension to stick around, that would have alleviated that concern. With that said, I think that excuse was pure bullshit.

 

In a perfect world where nobody would have issues with jobbing and there would be no paranoia of one person doing another thing to another or the company, I always thought Bret should have pinned Michaels at Survivor Series to swerve the wrestling community, which was a totally abuzz that it was going to be Bret's last match anyway, then the company, again if it took signing him officially to a short term agreement, by giving him that favor of sorts (which I truly believed he deserved, not just because he had creative control but also because he was always a very reliable employee and always did what he was told, and never missed dates) would have to force him to job the title out to Michaels a few weeks later or at the latest, at the next ppv in a loser leaves WWE match. While the ladder would be predictable, it would have put closure to the program. Again though, this is all fantasy booking, taking out the fact that both guys had legitimate heat and let that get the best of them.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Ultimately, I think somehow, someway, the company should have forced Bret to sign a short term agreement from when it was agreed upon that he would leave that in no way, shape, or form, would he leave WWE until said date, say, a month after Survivor Series. Then things could have ended pretty amicably for the most part. Survivor Series could have ended in some sort of schmoz with Bret winning by DQ or something. Then from there, you build to a triple threat (or the proposed fatal four way that was the running idea at the time) with the two and whoever else, and Bret could have dropped the belt to whomever, hell he wouldnt have even needed to do the job to Michaels in that context, NOR would have Bret even had to lay down for Shawn at all, as Michaels could have beaten someone else in the match (say, Undertaker) to win it.

 

It seemed like the company always used the excuse that they were afraid Bret was going to "run away" as champion and go to WCW if he didnt job at Survivor Series. By having him agree on paper to a short term extension to stick around, that would have alleviated that concern. With that said, I think that excuse was pure bullshit.

 

In a perfect world where nobody would have issues with jobbing and there would be no paranoia of one person doing another thing to another or the company, I always thought Bret should have pinned Michaels at Survivor Series to swerve the wrestling community, which was a totally abuzz that it was going to be Bret's last match anyway, then the company, again if it took signing him officially to a short term agreement, by giving him that favor of sorts (which I truly believed he deserved, not just because he had creative control but also because he was always a very reliable employee and always did what he was told, and never missed dates) would have to force him to job the title out to Michaels a few weeks later or at the latest, at the next ppv in a loser leaves WWE match. While the ladder would be predictable, it would have put closure to the program. Again though, this is all fantasy booking, taking out the fact that both guys had legitimate heat and let that get the best of them.

Bret got Eric's approval to stay with WWE through to 12/8, which was the Raw after the December PPV, when Bret would have given his farewell speech. That was when the plan, as Bret knew it, was for Montreal to end in a DQ, leading the four-way at the December PPV where Shawn would get the belt.

[RedJed 0]

Ultimately, I think somehow, someway, the company should have forced Bret to sign a short term agreement from when it was agreed upon that he would leave that in no way, shape, or form, would he leave WWE until said date, say, a month after Survivor Series. Then things could have ended pretty amicably for the most part. Survivor Series could have ended in some sort of schmoz with Bret winning by DQ or something. Then from there, you build to a triple threat (or the proposed fatal four way that was the running idea at the time) with the two and whoever else, and Bret could have dropped the belt to whomever, hell he wouldnt have even needed to do the job to Michaels in that context, NOR would have Bret even had to lay down for Shawn at all, as Michaels could have beaten someone else in the match (say, Undertaker) to win it.

 

It seemed like the company always used the excuse that they were afraid Bret was going to "run away" as champion and go to WCW if he didnt job at Survivor Series. By having him agree on paper to a short term extension to stick around, that would have alleviated that concern. With that said, I think that excuse was pure bullshit.

 

In a perfect world where nobody would have issues with jobbing and there would be no paranoia of one person doing another thing to another or the company, I always thought Bret should have pinned Michaels at Survivor Series to swerve the wrestling community, which was a totally abuzz that it was going to be Bret's last match anyway, then the company, again if it took signing him officially to a short term agreement, by giving him that favor of sorts (which I truly believed he deserved, not just because he had creative control but also because he was always a very reliable employee and always did what he was told, and never missed dates) would have to force him to job the title out to Michaels a few weeks later or at the latest, at the next ppv in a loser leaves WWE match. While the ladder would be predictable, it would have put closure to the program. Again though, this is all fantasy booking, taking out the fact that both guys had legitimate heat and let that get the best of them.

Bret got Eric's approval to stay with WWE through to 12/8, which was the Raw after the December PPV, when Bret would have given his farewell speech. That was when the plan, as Bret knew it, was for Montreal to end in a DQ, leading the four-way at the December PPV where Shawn would get the belt.

 

Hence, the "going to WCW with the belt" argument was such bullshit. Like I said, if he had the ok from WCW to stay longer, all the company needed to do was ask him to sign a legally binding contract extension through 12/8.

[Jingus 0]

I don't believe HBK wouldnt Job to ANYONE....

Go look up the match results yourself. Between his WWF title loss to Sid at Survivor Series 96 and his semi-retirement match with Austin at Wrestlemania 14, Shawn DIDN'T job to anyone. For seventeen months he didn't get pinned one single time, no matter whether he was babyface or heel, champ or not. (And no, HHH's Euro title "win" doesn't count.) Meanwhile, Bret was jobbing to guys like The Patriot.

[Boxer 0]

I don't believe HBK wouldnt Job to ANYONE....

Go look up the match results yourself. Between his WWF title loss to Sid at Survivor Series 96 and his semi-retirement match with Austin at Wrestlemania 14, Shawn DIDN'T job to anyone. For seventeen months he didn't get pinned one single time, no matter whether he was babyface or heel, champ or not. (And no, HHH's Euro title "win" doesn't count.) Meanwhile, Bret was jobbing to guys like The Patriot.

 

Are you sure? I mean I'm not doubting you, but I never looked at it like that. Damn, that's a lot of non-jobbing. When he won the Tag Title in 1997......... uh wait....

 

Triple H and the Euro title...........

 

His feud with Undertaker...................

 

On Raw vs Mankind.............

 

I guess you are right.

[pappajacks 0]

I don't believe HBK wouldnt Job to ANYONE....

 

Look at HBK's track record.

 

He even refused to job to Austin at WM14, before Taker stepped in days before the show and threatened to beats the lights out of him.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think his excuse for that WM was that he was too injured to compete and put Austin over the way he deserved it.

 

All of those above scenarios just don't work as well as what happened, know what I mean? Let's say Shawn gets it in some weak ass 4 way and doesn't even pin Bret. He looks like a bogus champ (not that he wasn't anyway) who didn't even pin the champ for the belt. Shawn was a horribly unprofessional piece of shit, yet in total irony it ended up being the best thing for the company. By the time he had formed DX, screwed Bulldog out of the European title in the UK, gotten lucky as fuck against UT in the HIAC, won the title in the Montreal screwjob, and then beaten UT in the casket match with Kane interfering AGAIN.....was there anyone who didn't want to see this man get destroyed in the middle of the ring???

 

WM 14 was the ultimate comeuppance for Shawn Michaels the character, and the back injury around that time period was the comeuppance for Shawn Michaels the man. Four years of being on the shelf and watching the WWF become more popular than it ever was when he was around made him a bit more humble, at least when it comes to stuff like not jobbing.

 

For the life of me I don't understand what he was thinking in refusing to job to Austin at first. Not only would he be missing the main event of WM for the 2nd year in a row, but what were they supposed to do instead? He was obviously hurting, so he couldn't have retained there. Did he seriously expect them to job Austin out to HIM? Did he want to just forfeit the belt like he did seemingly a dozen times before?

[Celtic Jobber 0]

Source: PWInsider.com

 

The Vancouver Sun is reporting some new details on Bret Hart’s upcoming autobiography. According to the publication, Hart carried a tape recorder with him on the road for several years where he would put his thoughts and later transcribed them. Apparently those will be included in the autobiography.

 

Also in the book, Hart admits to many extra-marital affairs, his weakness for women while on the road as well as painting WWE Chairman Vince McMahon as a master manipulator who "wasn’t good for shit."

 

Bret Hart has promised that he is very open and brutally honest in the book.

 

[pappajacks 0]

What happened exactly in the European title fiasco between HBK and Bulldog? Bulldog was suppost to go over?

[cabbageboy 0]

I think so but who knows. The match was a foolish powder keg to book in the first place, given HBK's diva behavior and the potential for pissing off the UK fans. In theory Bulldog was supposed to go over, but in all honesty that booking made little sense itself with Michaels scheduled to face UT in the HIAC match. Anyway, Bulldog dedicated the match to his dying sister that had cancer and Shawn refused to go along with the planned booking. So Bulldog ends up passing out in a figure 4 after a DX run in and Michaels wins the European title, a belt he had zero use for.

 

The punchline is that the other main event on that show was Bret/UT, which had a DQ itself because they weren't changing the title there and UT was scheduled to face HBK in the HIAC. In other words they didn't want to book TWO DQs in the major matches. Personally I would have done it anyway, since I doubt fans in the UK would have minded Bulldog winning by DQ. Michaels and DX still come off strong if they leave him laying, they could have jobbed Bulldog to HHH back in the States if it was apparent Davey Boy wanted to leave with Bret (this would save burying the title in that HHH/HBK "match"), and it doesn't run the risk of infuriating the British fans.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

What happened exactly in the European title fiasco between HBK and Bulldog? Bulldog was suppost to go over?

Yes. Bulldog was meant to go over, and, knowing this, he dedicated the match to his dying relative. An hour before the show started, Vince went to Bulldog and asked him to put over Shawn with the explanation being that they wanted to build for a bigger show in Bulldog's former hometown where he would finally go over. While that idea does make sense, it's more than a little strange that Bulldog wasn't told about it until literally hours before the match. Why that happened should be obvious, considering who else was involved.

[BUTT 0]

I don't believe HBK wouldnt Job to ANYONE....

Go look up the match results yourself. Between his WWF title loss to Sid at Survivor Series 96 and his semi-retirement match with Austin at Wrestlemania 14, Shawn DIDN'T job to anyone. For seventeen months he didn't get pinned one single time, no matter whether he was babyface or heel, champ or not. (And no, HHH's Euro title "win" doesn't count.) Meanwhile, Bret was jobbing to guys like The Patriot.

He jobbed a few times on house shows. I know there was at least one time in late '96/early '97 when he got pinned by Austin, then Hart pinned him in a dark match at the MSG Raw that year (it was a 3-way with Taker), then I believe Taker pinned him in a six-man at MSG about a week after the screwjob. And, um, that's all I can think of. But none of those were on TV, so your point stands.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Eric Bischoff even said he understood why Vince McMahon did it. I think after the whole Madusa incident, Vince wasn't going to fuck around and trust anyone. Vince was in the dark about everything that was going on with Bret and Bischoff. Vince was put in a very bad situation. He was dealing with 2 wrestlers with some of the biggest egos in the wrestling business, and a possible bad situation involving WCW trashing another WWF title on air.

 

Although it was said Bischoff at that point wasn't allowed to do anything of the sort because Turner was afraid of lawsuits, Vince didn't know it.

 

And as far as Shawn and Bret go, even when Bret didn't job he still made mid-card wrestlers look like main event stars. Bret Hart could've made a broomstick look like a million bucks. Shawn Michaels, although very talented, didn't really give a fuck about anyone but himself and his peers. He would only put on great performances against the top level talent.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Eric Bischoff even said he understood why Vince McMahon did it. I think after the whole Madusa incident, Vince wasn't going to fuck around and trust anyone. Vince was in the dark about everything that was going on with Bret and Bischoff. Vince was put in a very bad situation. He was dealing with 2 wrestlers with some of the biggest egos in the wrestling business, and a possible bad situation involving WCW trashing another WWF title on air.

 

Although it was said Bischoff at that point wasn't allowed to do anything of the sort because Turner was afraid of lawsuits, Vince didn't know it.

Just to clear up any misunderstanding about this part, Vince knew the WWF title belt couldn't get the garbage bin treatment. He had to make a story up for an unhappy locker room the next day, so he went with the idea that he couldn't risk the WWF title belt being thrown in the trash. It was never going to happen and couldn't happen anyway, which he was fully aware of.

[cabbageboy 0]

Here is one thing I don't get: Why is Bret tossing the belt in the trash good for WCW anyway? Madusa tossing the belt in the trash is one thing, since that is a belt no one cared about. But let's say Bret shows up on Nitro, rants on the WWF, and tosses the belt in the trash. I personally think that the die hard WCW fans could care less, while the WWF fans out there would be outraged over them doing something like this and boycott WCW's shows. It would have been a much more vicious attack than the comments about Foley's title win. I think I would have been so pissed at WCW for pissing on the WWF title belt that I would have a hard time watching any of their shows.

 

If that had happened Vince could have gone out of his way to belittle Bret Hart and ironically enough come out of the whole thing looking like the good guy. It might have hurt his ability to draw heel heat against Austin later, but not to the degree that angle doesn't work.

[zappafrank 0]

HAPPY MONTREAL SCREWJOB DAY, EVERYONE!!!

[hyperchord24 0]

The Montreal Screwjob is Wikipedia's featured article of the day.