WWE/USA network update

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Guest Booker with Gabe Sapolsky

 

and full of retarded rehashed ideas from the original ECW, like Orton as a Raven/Credible hybrid, London & Kendrick as Sabu, MNM as Taz, and Melina as Bill Alfonso.

 

Even if the ideas are rehashed from ECW, and something being 'rehashed' isn't always a bad thing, they'd be fresh to the WWE audience. I'm not a major fan of Gabe's, but I also recognize that he seems to have a good idea of what does or doesn't have a chance to get over well. And even if he tries something and the audience rejects it, Gabe is more willing than most bookers to react accordingly and change things rather than push back and try and force something on his audience.

1. They're still bad ideas.

2. Everything is undermined by his unwitting burial of the brand with the Orton angle.

So what are you saying? That this current writing team would do better than something Gabe would book? Are you saying that the ideas he played out in the Guest Booker thing are worse than what actually happened?

 

Hell, I'm not even convinced Gabe would be that good in the WWE's corporate enviornment. Nor am I saying I like everything I see in ROH. But I CAN say that this year has not been a rehash of last year and that both years have there merits. Some good merits at that. Which is better than I can say for WWE from about a couple weeks after WM until now. Which is a damn shame because WWE was pretty darn good the first few months of this year.

[Kizzo 0]

It all changed in October 2000 when Kreski was replaced. I honestly wonder what would have happened if WCW had managed to stay alive for a little while longer.

 

I remember this guy. A very great writer, and was very successful in the entertainment industry(I think he may be the only WWE writer that had actual "tv success" before arriving to WWE). Which is good, because he actually knew how to write a successful tv program

[The Tino Standard 0]

It all changed in October 2000 when Kreski was replaced. I honestly wonder what would have happened if WCW had managed to stay alive for a little while longer.

 

I remember this guy. A very great writer, and was very successful in the entertainment industry(I think he may be the only WWE writer that had actual "tv success" before arriving to WWE). Which is good, because he actually knew how to write a successful tv program

 

One of the big things he was known for was his attention to continuity. He was said to have had big storyboards charting all the characters and their interactions with each other. That type of thing should be a no-brainer for ANY writing staff, but you can see the results today of not having him around.

[Maztinho 0]

Didn't the E hire someone to keep track of continuity and then fire them soon after for finding too many?

 

And Gabe's booking is too classical in the idea that wrestling or titles is the main reason for action, not a bad soap opera with matches that happen to be in the way of sketches.

[cabbageboy 0]

To be honest I've always found Kreski's booking horribly overrated. I will give him this much..he at least just let the guys perform, but in that 2000 era that's really about all the WWF had going on. Quality in ring work. Go back and watch shows like No Way Out 2000 or WM from 2000 and tell me those are well booked shows. There's some great action on them, but stuff like the Rock jobbing to the Big Show and THEN following it with HHH ending Foley's career? That's just terrible, downbeat booking that sends the crowd home unhappy.

 

Here's some of the stupid crap that happened during the Kreski era:

 

--The obvious WM main event of Rock vs. HHH became a mishmash of McMahons running wild and Foley and Big Show added to it for no good reason. Oh, and HHH retained the belt on that show (bear in mind there was a 50.00 all day version some bought....I can only imagine how thrilled those people must have been).

 

--They brought in Taz and after a slight push mostly just buried him.

 

--The Rock never did quite get the blowoff win over HHH. He beat VINCE for the belt in a convoluted 6 man tag.

 

--The whole Jericho/Chyna co-IC champ storyline. Nuff said there.

 

--Pushing the lame X-Pac/Road Dog tag team over nearly everyone in the tag division aside from whoever had the belts.

 

--The booking of the main matches at Fully Loaded 2000. They had a chance to elevate some new stars, but instead Benoit, Jericho, and Angle all ended up flat on their backs.

 

--The entire month of September 2000. Let's see, we had Austin return and then the whole goofy revelation of Rikishi being the limo driver that ran him down. That angle ended up being a big letdown to a lot of people. Oh, and there was also the big blowoff to Angle and HHH over Stephanie that tanked, with Steph reluctantly choosing HHH even though the entire angle had built to her turning on HHH and choosing Angle.

 

This isn't to say they didn't do some terrific stuff during that period. Anything E & C related was brilliance, the Eddie/Chyna stuff was really the only tolerable Chyna angle ever, etc.

 

 

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I doubt Kreski was given control who went over in matches. So you can't fault him for booking decisions.

[Bix 0]

So what are you saying? That this current writing team would do better than something Gabe would book? Are you saying that the ideas he played out in the Guest Booker thing are worse than what actually happened?

Yes. A thousand times yes.

 

HIS MAIN ANGLE BURIED THE BRAND AND HE IS TOO DUMB TO REALIZE THIS.

 

I doubt Kreski was given control who went over in matches. So you can't fault him for booking decisions.

That and I'm pretty sure that Stephanie took over starting with the HHH-Angle "blowoff."

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

So what are you saying? That this current writing team would do better than something Gabe would book? Are you saying that the ideas he played out in the Guest Booker thing are worse than what actually happened?

Yes. A thousand times yes.

 

HIS MAIN ANGLE BURIED THE BRAND AND HE IS TOO DUMB TO REALIZE THIS.

 

I doubt Kreski was given control who went over in matches. So you can't fault him for booking decisions.

That and I'm pretty sure that Stephanie took over starting with the HHH-Angle "blowoff."

Yeah, but wouldn't you say that the brand is buried anyway?

[Bix 0]

That doesn't mean that going on TV and saying "Randy Orton was punished for acting up and thus sent the the shitty brand" is not a terrible idea. Plus, the booking ideas were for the first year of the brand.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

That doesn't mean that going on TV and saying "Randy Orton was punished for acting up and thus sent the the shitty brand" is not a terrible idea. Plus, the booking ideas were for the first year of the brand.

It's just good to remember that the Guest Booker thing was a Gabecentric best case scenario based totally on what he would like to see. The unlikelyhood of anything he mapped out of actually happening is just too great. I mean RIC FLAIR in ECW? Please, I doubt Flair would ever go for that.

 

That being said I enjoyed his ideas.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Where were these "Gabe ECW ideas" actually reported? The RoH message board?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Where were these "Gabe ECW ideas" actually reported? The RoH message board?

 

HTQ/CTP just posted the link to the soundbyte of the ideas at the top of the page. (Well the last page, but it was quoted on the top of this one)

[Bix 0]

That doesn't mean that going on TV and saying "Randy Orton was punished for acting up and thus sent the the shitty brand" is not a terrible idea. Plus, the booking ideas were for the first year of the brand.

It's just good to remember that the Guest Booker thing was a Gabecentric best case scenario based totally on what he would like to see. The unlikelyhood of anything he mapped out of actually happening is just too great. I mean RIC FLAIR in ECW? Please, I doubt Flair would ever go for that.

That's really not the point at all.

 

That being said I enjoyed his ideas.

How was the Orton gets OMGDEMOTED!!!~~!111 angle not a bunch of ridiculous Russo-esque smarky bullshit that also buried ECW completely out of the gate?

 

Where were these "Gabe ECW ideas" actually reported? The RoH message board?

He did a "Guest Booker" DVD w/ Kayfabe Commentaries.

[TheBigSwigg 0]

--The obvious WM main event of Rock vs. HHH became a mishmash of McMahons running wild and Foley and Big Show added to it for no good reason. Oh, and HHH retained the belt on that show (bear in mind there was a 50.00 all day version some bought....I can only imagine how thrilled those people must have been).

 

--They brought in Taz and after a slight push mostly just buried him.

 

From what I've read, Vince wanted to bring Foley back for the ME at WM, and Kreski was the one who pushed for Tazz, only to have McMahon shoot down Kreski's idea because Taz wasn't "big enough."

 

--The entire month of September 2000. Let's see, we had Austin return and then the whole goofy revelation of Rikishi being the limo driver that ran him down. That angle ended up being a big letdown to a lot of people. Oh, and there was also the big blowoff to Angle and HHH over Stephanie that tanked, with Steph reluctantly choosing HHH even though the entire angle had built to her turning on HHH and choosing Angle.

 

Another angle in which Vince changed the ending. This is also when Steph started the booking.

[Diamonddust 0]

--The obvious WM main event of Rock vs. HHH became a mishmash of McMahons running wild and Foley and Big Show added to it for no good reason. Oh, and HHH retained the belt on that show (bear in mind there was a 50.00 all day version some bought....I can only imagine how thrilled those people must have been).

 

--They brought in Taz and after a slight push mostly just buried him.

 

From what I've read, Vince wanted to bring Foley back for the ME at WM, and Kreski was the one who pushed for Tazz, only to have McMahon shoot down Kreski's idea because Taz wasn't "big enough."

 

--The entire month of September 2000. Let's see, we had Austin return and then the whole goofy revelation of Rikishi being the limo driver that ran him down. That angle ended up being a big letdown to a lot of people. Oh, and there was also the big blowoff to Angle and HHH over Stephanie that tanked, with Steph reluctantly choosing HHH even though the entire angle had built to her turning on HHH and choosing Angle.

 

Another angle in which Vince changed the ending. This is also when Steph started the booking.

 

I believe the line about Taz was that "it wouldn't be believable that a man his size could suplex certain WWE stars."

[The Buzz 0]

Which in turn kills off a big part of what got Taz over in ECW.

[Diamonddust 0]

Which in turn kills off a big part of what got Taz over in ECW.

 

Which would have been the reason he was hired in the first place.

 

Still, if they had pushed him more towards the "Thug from Brooklyn" side of his character (I remember one rumor stating they were going to bring in someone like Chris Chetti to play "Joey Numbers", things might have been different. Although, injuries were catching up with him.

[cabbageboy 0]

Steph didn't take over the booking team until Nov. 2000, so you can blame that horrendous Survivor Series with Austin dropping HHH (in a car) from a crane and the goofy Eric Angle nonsense in the UT/Angle match on her. I don't think Steph was booking in Sept. 2000 when they blew it with the Angle/HHH/Steph angle and the Austin limo angle.

 

Considering the WWF had an insanely awesome roster in 2000 with all the WCW guys jumping ship it would have been hard to not make serious $$. Kreski just had to say "Hey, I think the Rock and HHH would be a good match" or maybe "Let's take our 3 best tag teams and let them kill each other will tables, ladders, and chairs."

 

I doubt we'll ever know for sure, but I wonder if Kreski was demoted in Nov. 2000 because those long term angles didn't really pan out all that well. Combine it with the WWF taking a serious ratings hit with the TNN move, and maybe Vince panicked and went to Steph. I wonder if WCW was in better shape if he would have put Steph in charge of anything.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Stephanie took over as head writer in September, just before the love triangle storyline concluded. Survivor Series, though, was the first PPV where she had total control.

[Jingus 0]

IIRC, Kreski quit over just being plain sick of working for the WWE, tired of the brutal schedule and frustrated at having his storylines constantly undermined. Most of the stupidest crap from 2000 just happened to feature one HHH, so you tell me where those ideas originated from. Aside from that? 2000 was The Best Year The WWF/E Has Ever Had, period.

 

Tazz being short certainly didn't help, but supposedly his attitude rubbed people the wrong way backstage too.

 

As for the Sapolsky/ECW argument, c'mon Bix, anything would've been better than what actually happened at December To Dismember. Gabe even talks about how he didn't want it to seem like ECW would be a demotion for Orton, more like he was being punished by being sent to the crazy land of extreme hardcore.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Tazz being short certainly didn't help, but supposedly his attitude rubbed people the wrong way backstage too.

An incident I remember is when Teri wore an orange dress, Tazz asked her not to wear orange in the future because it was his color. That one had people shaking their heads.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Ii was reading Kreski's wikipedia entry, and it made reference to how he used to storyboard storylines to try and keep continuity, and that it was something that people in the WWF used to mock him for. What an idiot, trying to keep storylines semi-consistant!

 

apparently he died of cancer? Bad break there.

[Bix 0]

As for the Sapolsky/ECW argument, c'mon Bix, anything would've been better than what actually happened at December To Dismember. Gabe even talks about how he didn't want it to seem like ECW would be a demotion for Orton, more like he was being punished by being sent to the crazy land of extreme hardcore.

I wasn't talking about just December To Dismember, which was all obvious Heyman booking except for the first half of the Elimination Chamber match, anyway.

[Kizzo 0]

Stephanie started back in September 2000 I think..

 

Its easy to see when the change happened(especially if you were watching WWE throughout 2000).. I mean the entire conclusion of the Kurt/Steph/Triple H angle was just weird(and definitely not Kreski's work). You can easily see that there was a shift in a different direction.

 

One of the big things he was known for was his attention to continuity. He was said to have had big storyboards charting all the characters and their interactions with each other. That type of thing should be a no-brainer for ANY writing staff, but you can see the results today of not having him around.

 

True, but that's what separates him from the others. He actually knew how to write television.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Their numbers are strong enough that there is zero chance of USA cancelling them

 

So, did 83% of the posters in this thread stop reading the original post before this part of the story?

 

I think the discussion is revolving along the lines of what happens when USA come back to renew the deal in 2008 and offer Vince far below what he's prepared to take, he takes his ball and leaves (or tries to), rather than an out-and-out cancelling.

 

I suggested two ways (Wrestling Network, Internet only) as ways Vince could combat USA lowballing him and having no other network to go to.

Both of which would kill the company.

 

A wrestling only network would bring way more exposure than 2 hours on USA/CW and 1 hour on Sci Fi so I dont see how it would kill the WWF.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Their numbers are strong enough that there is zero chance of USA cancelling them

 

So, did 83% of the posters in this thread stop reading the original post before this part of the story?

 

I think the discussion is revolving along the lines of what happens when USA come back to renew the deal in 2008 and offer Vince far below what he's prepared to take, he takes his ball and leaves (or tries to), rather than an out-and-out cancelling.

 

I suggested two ways (Wrestling Network, Internet only) as ways Vince could combat USA lowballing him and having no other network to go to.

Both of which would kill the company.

 

A wrestling only network would bring way more exposure than 2 hours on USA/CW and 1 hour on Sci Fi so I dont see how it would kill the WWF.

Do tell us more about this part.

 

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Marvin, I don't know the exact number, but I think that the 3+ million fans they get for USA's Raw or 2+ million for CW's SD or 1+ million for Sci Fi's ECW far outweighs the thousands of subscribers they might get for the network.

[Black Lushus 0]

Often times new channels aren't offered to everyone on every cable and satellite service. That channel could only be available to half of the country for the better part of a year. If they can survive that first year or two with half the country not seeing their product, then maybe you have something there.

 

Also, USA is on basic cable...a huge chunk of the wrestling audience can only afford basic cable. A 24/7 wrestling channel would have to be on one of the higher tiers of cable service, the ones in the $80 and up range.

 

On the other hand, if Vince signs a deal where his channel is made available to everyone right away, then it's not that big of an issue.

[Bix 0]

Their numbers are strong enough that there is zero chance of USA cancelling them

 

So, did 83% of the posters in this thread stop reading the original post before this part of the story?

 

I think the discussion is revolving along the lines of what happens when USA come back to renew the deal in 2008 and offer Vince far below what he's prepared to take, he takes his ball and leaves (or tries to), rather than an out-and-out cancelling.

 

I suggested two ways (Wrestling Network, Internet only) as ways Vince could combat USA lowballing him and having no other network to go to.

Both of which would kill the company.

 

A wrestling only network would bring way more exposure than 2 hours on USA/CW and 1 hour on Sci Fi so I dont see how it would kill the WWF.

I hope you understand that you're the dumbest person on internet wrestling boards this week.

[Black Lushus 0]

ah we love Marvin here...he's our hapless lovable loser!