WWE General Discussion - November 2007

[The Truthiness 0]

A lot of the Memphis show's semi-failure (I saw semi, because that is a massive goddamn crowd for any indy show period) I think was because the main event was changed from Hogan-Lawler to Hogan-Big Show at the last minute.

 

Regardless of whether or not MVP has the talent, you guys are all forgetting something. He's not a big hoss, and he's black. That right there means Vince will almost certainly never push him as a top guy.

 

That doesn't say much about Hogan's name value, now does it?

 

I think Vince is subtely going in too another direction because of the steroid press he's getting. That's why people like Punk, MVP, and J.Hardy are getting groomed for huge pushes. That's probably why he put Punk on Death Grip, and why HHH is buddy'ing up with Jeff. MVP gave the wellness polkicy it's 1st bit of good press, and has made a heart procedure mandatory every 6 months or so. I know in the big scheme of things that doesnt mean much to "the real world. But I'm pretty sure Vince was grateful too have something good come out of his wellness program, and essentially MVP's "saved heart" could lead to a big push. So him being a very talented worker, over with the crowd, able to work a mic, and giving the WWE good press almost guarantee him a big push.

 

[Wally Balls 0]

MVP is getting pushed to only be squashed by Batista or Taker...

 

 

 

Punk will remain the "European Champion" on ECW...which btw, I'm sorry to say, no one really cares about.

 

 

 

Jeff Hardy is super over, but I can't help but think that he'll be stuck in the shadows of HHH due to their new partnership. Plus once Lashley gets back, he'll be pushed over Hardy.

 

 

[The Truthiness 0]

MVP is getting pushed to only be squashed by Batista or Taker...

Sure he will, the same thing happened to Cena back when he was getting over as a heel in 2003, he was jobbing out to Brock and Taker. It didn't really stop him from getting over, and when he turned face it was basically a beginning of a new era.

 

 

Punk will remain the "European Champion" on ECW...which btw, I'm sorry to say, no one really cares about.

 

Still a very solid show, and his "Straight Edge Gimmick" is going to be pushed strong in the coming few months I believe. If he can stay awy from the Tony Atlas's and Arn Anderson's of the world he'll be ok. JBL making guys apologize to him isn't a bad thing to have on the resume either.

 

 

Jeff Hardy is super over, but I can't help but think that he'll be stuck in the shadows of HHH due to their new partnership. Plus once Lashley gets back, he'll be pushed over Hardy.

 

I'm starting to think it's going to lead to a "respect match" of some kind. Where he gives Hunter a good 25 minute fight on ppv, that will end with Hunter barely winning, and giving Jeff a handshake/hug and putting him over huge the next night. Then he might win the MITB, and use it to get the better of a heel Champion of some sorts during the summer of 2008. Triple H from reports might just give him a huge rub, just to spite Jericho if what I've been reading is true.

 

I honestly believe all 3 guys are going get ME pushes in the next 2-3 years. Punk and MVP are just in their 1st and 2nd years. J. Hardy just had to build up trust with Management for being such a fuck up in the past.l now that he has Hunter on his side, he might go further the a lot of people expect. Matt Hardy might also be in line for a nice push also when he returns. The thing with Matt is I don't think they're comfortable with his promo skills, he's not the "Highlight reel" type like his brother, and he didn't get over as easily as Punk. But he still looks to have a nice future ahead of him.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

HHH is eager to push Hardy because, like Benoit, he knows he isn't a threat to his spot.

[The Truthiness 0]

And let me guess Chris Jericho is a "threat", right?

[Boxer 0]

HHH is eager to push Hardy because, like Benoit, he knows he isn't a threat to his spot.

 

Since we all know who ARE the threats, over the years, who has HHH actually backed?

 

We got Benoit and Hardy thus far. Who else are we missing here.

[Hawk 34 0]

Batista is the most obvious one.

[Boxer 0]

Oh yeah, how could I miss him. Would Orton actually be considered one? One can say yes, due to evolution, but one can say no, one month reign, ended by HHH himself.

[Jingus 0]

And let me guess Chris Jericho is a "threat", right?

I've never understood that argument either. Jericho is, what, 5'10" and 220 pounds? In terms of size and working style, he's way closer to Benoit and Hardy than he is to HHH.

 

 

I can tell you one guy who is sort of a threat: Cena. Just look how HHH dealt with him:

 

-Cena jumps from Smackdown to Raw. HHH finishes his program with Batista and promptly takes a months-long vacation.

 

-HHH comes back, but for the first time in six years, he doesn't even TRY to get involved in the championship picture. Jobs out Ric Flair and Big Show for months on end instead.

 

-Loses the Royal Rumble... after being the #1 participant, lasting throughout the entire match, eliminating half the main eventers himself, and only getting eliminated at the very end, by the eventual winner (Mysterio), and only because of a double-team move backfired. And THEN he somehow scoops Mysterio's main event spot at Wrestlemania; damn, that's some smooth backstage political burial.

 

-Well, he knows that Cena is the new babyface superman and is being pushed so strong that even Captain Trips himself can't bury the kid. He's gonna have to job to him. But look how he gets around that and keeps his heat:

 

a. Their feud just happens to get booked only after Cena starts getting booed out of arenas.

b. Throughout all the interviews, HHH keeps hammering on how Cena is a crappier wrestler than him. Cena agrees with him in the dueling promos.

c. At Wrestlemania, Shawn Michaels des a DX crotch chop and got a huge pop. In his match, "hated heel" HHH just happens to do the same thing, for another huge pop.

d. For the Mania finish, HHH taps out real quickly to a hold which Cena had barely begun to use. You can see fans going "wtf?" in the crowd. Cena afterwards got booked to win half his matches with that hold; Triple H can take credit for "getting it over".

 

-With the guys who beat him at Mania the previous two years, HHH kept the feud going all the way into the summer, losing multiple rematches and finally losing a big blow-off match. With Cena, he has only more match, it's a three-way with Edge, and the finish is a fluke roll-up.

 

-Triple H promptly turns babyface, reforms DX, and never wrestles Cena again.

 

 

Put it all together, it sure as hell seems like he was threatened by Cena.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Eh, he just used Cena to help him get over as a babyface.

[Guest cheetoe]

While there are a bunch of theories, one thing can be said without a doubt. HHH does nothing that doesn't benefit himself more than anyone. The end result has always been the same. If it is true that he is sweating Jerichos return, he will find a way to make it benefit him. The guy is in the best position of any star in the history of the WWF/E. He is married to a McMahon. He is a father to Vince's grandbaby. And he is the son-in-law of a McMahon. Basically he IS a McMahon. He's almost blood and that means he isn't ever going to be put into a position he doesn't want to be in. The normal rules don't apply, so it's no use even arguing about it.

 

Only thing to do is enjoy the best case scenarios, like Jeff Hardy getting a push and Benoit becoming a champion. Maybe one day he'll mature enough to actually do things to make the company and it's product better over the long haul.

 

It could be worse, it's not like the guy can't wrestle. He's capable of having some pretty amazing matches. It's a shame that he basically suffers from a lack of confidence or some type of inferiority issue, he seems obsessed with making himself into the greatest there ever was. He doesn't realize that you can't make yourself that, as much as the fans, the era you wrestle in, and the opponents/matches make you great. I think sometimes he forgets that his profession is a work.

[fazzle 0]

HHH is eager to push Hardy because, like Benoit, he knows he isn't a threat to his spot.

 

 

Wait...what are you trying to tell us?

 

 

What is Jeff Hardy's physical address?!

 

WHERE ARE THE DOGS?!

[King Cucaracha 0]

HHH does nothing that doesn't benefit himself more than anyone.

 

Exactly. But, how many legit main eventers didn't/haven't? It's just the way of the business.

[Jingus 0]

How about the Rock? Don't remember him burying anyone, ever, and he's now the single biggest name in wrestling history. Mick Foley, Ric Flair, Terry Funk all come to mind at least somewhat as guys who tried to help people besides just themselves. The "you've gotta be a selfish cutthroat in order to succeed in wrestling" meme is one of the more annoying unspoken wrestling commandments. Kind of like those drug addicts who claim that everyone is on something, so it's okay that they're sucking down oxycontins by the handful.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Buried. Guys bitch because they thought Van Dam, Booker T, etc. were going to become mega-stars and they didn't. Like their success/failure into mega-stardom hinged on a single feud. Fans are still marks, they just cheer for better workers instead of along face/heel lines. It's still the same thing, and it gets tiresome.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Regardless of whether or not MVP has the talent, you guys are all forgetting something. He's not a big hoss, and he's black. That right there means Vince will almost certainly never push him as a top guy.

 

That is the most ignorant thing I've read here. The Rock was black(please don't give me that "Rock isn't REALLY black" bullshit) and wasn't a big hoss, and he is one of the greatest WWE stars of all time.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

MVP is getting a pretty serious push. I don't know what show you guys are watching, but the push he's getting is similar to ones Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit received in their first years in the WWF...multiple title reigns, serious feuds, being booked as a legit in-ring threat, even taking out a top babyface (Matt Hardy). Unless he flunks a "wellness test" or does something stupid, I don't think he's getting buried any time soon.

[King Cucaracha 0]

How about the Rock? Don't remember him burying anyone, ever, and he's now the single biggest name in wrestling history.

 

Rock I'll give you. It's not neccessarily an issue of 'burying' people though. It's more an issue of people picking and choosing who they help out and who they don't, and I don't think Rocky ever discriminated over who he put over (everybody from Brock and Mankind to Hurricane and Mark Henry). You could also argue that Rock was never in a really high political position within the company and, like Cena, lived and died on crowd reactions rather than relationships behind the scenes. But, I dunno.

 

Mick Foley, Ric Flair, Terry Funk all come to mind at least somewhat as guys who tried to help people besides just themselves.

 

I think there'd be plenty of people who'd argue with you over Foley, at least in recent years, just for him coming back to try and boost his book sales. Whether you'd class him as a geniune mega-star is debatable. His selflessness didn't exactly help his career. Flair was mostly selfless but made decisions to profit himself at times. Funk... yeah, I'd say Funk is up there. But, again, his selflessness didn't make him one of the genuine superstars in the business.

 

The "you've gotta be a selfish cutthroat in order to succeed in wrestling" meme is one of the more annoying unspoken wrestling commandments.

 

That's the thing. Do you blame HHH for 'playing the game', or do you blame Austin for passing on the lesson with the issue surrounding Summerslam '99. Or do you blame Hogan for passing the lesson on to Austin by burying him in WCW? Or do you blame Michaels for passing the message on during the D-X days? Do you blame Taker, who I'm sure learnt his trade from The Hulkster too? Do you blame whoever Hogan learnt to play the political game from in his early days?

 

Most of the worst offenders in the 'politix' game have been victims of it in the past. Brock. Angle. Savage. Jarrett. Coincidence? I think not. Guys see that it works and they take advantage. It's not a good thing, but it's something that's not going to change any time soon.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

He'll probably get "lotteried" over to Raw next summer when HHH and Cena are out of viable contenders. I wouldn't mind seeing Undertaker vs MVP feud sooner than later, but Taker is likelytied up in the title scene until after WM (at least) and I don't think Porter will reach that level until next summer. If MVP could stick on SD! after the lottery, I could see him a legit title contender by this time next year, if not already be in his first world title reign(or is it wwe championship on SD?).

 

I still like the idea of Porter going after Punk right now (because he liked having two titles) more than feuding with Rey Mysterio in the interim, however then they'd have nothing for Mysterio.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

He'll probably get "lotteried" over to Raw next summer when HHH and Cena are out of viable contenders. I wouldn't mind seeing Undertaker vs MVP feud sooner than later, but Taker is likelytied up in the title scene until after WM (at least) and I don't think Porter will reach that level until next summer. If MVP could stick on SD! after the lottery, I could see him a legit title contender by this time next year, if not already be in his first world title reign(or is it wwe championship on SD?).

 

I still like the idea of Porter going after Punk right now (because he liked having two titles) more than feuding with Rey Mysterio in the interim, however then they'd have nothing for Mysterio.

 

I fear that he will get buried on RAW because of politics,

 

I really like the Mysterio Vs. MVP feud, they've had very good one on one matches so far. They bring the best out of each other, their styles click.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

...or do you blame Austin for passing on the lesson with the issue surrounding Summerslam '99.

 

If you're talking about Austin supposedly refusing to put HHH over, that wasn't the case.

[King Cucaracha 0]

...or do you blame Austin for passing on the lesson with the issue surrounding Summerslam '99.

 

If you're talking about Austin supposedly refusing to put HHH over, that wasn't the case.

 

I thought that was at least part of it. I know there were other extenuating circumstances.

 

But, it still amounted to the same thing. Could Austin not have dropped the title to HHH the next night if he was being put over, instead of Mankind taking the belt as an interim, making everyone involved look bad?

[Hawk 34 0]

Austin had no problem doing the job. It wasn't his call.

[Enigma 0]

Jericho's only like 5'8'' or 5'9''. When I met him after a Fozzy concert, I was taller than him and I'm 5'10''.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

...or do you blame Austin for passing on the lesson with the issue surrounding Summerslam '99.

 

If you're talking about Austin supposedly refusing to put HHH over, that wasn't the case.

 

I thought that was at least part of it. I know there were other extenuating circumstances.

 

But, it still amounted to the same thing. Could Austin not have dropped the title to HHH the next night if he was being put over, instead of Mankind taking the belt as an interim, making everyone involved look bad?

It wasn't part of it. Mankind pinning Austin was done so that Ventura didn't have to raise the hand of a heel, and so Mankind could transition the belt to HHH who could get his big win over Austin at a PPV, where it could be built to and made to mean more than if it was just given away with no build on Raw the next night. They wanted HHH's big win over Austin to mean something.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Which makes me wonder why they even bothered getting Ventura in if it required backdoor booking to get the results they want (HHH going over Austin with the belt on the line).

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Which makes me wonder why they even bothered getting Ventura in if it required backdoor booking to get the results they want (HHH going over Austin with the belt on the line).

You're wondering why they brought in the governor of Minnesota to guest referee?

 

Think about that one for a second.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Yes considering there were many other options of how to use Ventura than guest refereeing a match that he couldn't have a heel win.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Yes considering there were many other options of how to use Ventura than guest refereeing a match that he couldn't have a heel win.

You expect them to bring in Ventura and put him in an undercard match?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

No, but he could have interactions with Mankind or Austin or even HHH before the match. Or have him be a guest commentator (seeing how he used to be one) or something like that. It just irritates me that they wanted HHH to ultimately win, but they figure they rather have HHH beat Austin where it meant something (PPV) yet his FIRST TITLE WIN was not worthy of PPV. All because Jesse Ventura couldn't raise his hand. Way to let someone who means nothing to your plans long term dictate the booking.