Let's Talk About....WrestleMania IV

[King Kamala 0]

That's sort of what I figured.

 

And I hope nobody accuses me of being a WrestleMania V hater. I've probably rented that tape more times than any other. Survivor Series '89, Royal Rumble '92, and WWF Wrestling World Tour ('92 edition with Ric Flair Vs Kerry Von Erich, Bret Hart Vs Rick Martel, and The British Bulldog and LOD Vs The Repo Man and The Nasty Boys) probably could claim that title as well.

 

 

[ChrisMWaters 0]

WrestleMania V also had a pretty good short match, IMO, between Mr. Perfect and Blue Blazer.

 

But that's just my opinion on that match.

[Guest Nitro 24/7]

I've never understood why some people feel that DiBiase should have won the title at this PPV. In WWF terms he had no real credibility as a wrestler at this point, mainly trying to use his money to buy wins or titles.

 

And also I can't imagine them ending a 4 hour+ PPV with a heel title win. Can you imagine a huge tourney like this ending with DiBiase pulling off some sort of screwjob for the title?

 

 

In one of Honky Tonk Mans shoots he says that he was told to drop the IC title to Savage at SNME/The Main Event and said he wouldnt do it, thats when he called WCW/NWA and said he wanted to go there.

 

The plan was for Ted Dibiase to win the WWF title at wrestlemania 4 and for Savage to win the IC title from HTM at the SNME/The Main Event. Honky went and had the match with Savage but it was a shmoz ending. So Vince then allowed Savage to win the WWF title at Wrestlemania 4 but it was supposed to be Ted Dibiase winning the WWF title and Savage winning the IC title at the SNME/The Main Event show.

 

As far as Wrestlemania 4 goes, I loved it. Awesome show.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

In one of Honky Tonk Mans shoots he says that he was told to drop the IC title to Savage at SNME/The Main Event and said he wouldnt do it, thats when he called WCW/NWA and said he wanted to go there.

 

The plan was for Ted Dibiase to win the WWF title at wrestlemania 4 and for Savage to win the IC title from HTM at the SNME/The Main Event. Honky went and had the match with Savage but it was a shmoz ending. So Vince then allowed Savage to win the WWF title at Wrestlemania 4 but it was supposed to be Ted Dibiase winning the WWF title and Savage winning the IC title at the SNME/The Main Event show.

 

We've heard this song and dance before from Honky, but I believe that it has been refuted by other sources who worked for the company. As others have pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense to change the booking of your world title program because the freaking Honky Tonk Man doesn't want to play ball.

 

It wouldn't be the first time Honky pulled a fake story out to inflate his self-importance (see: Butch Reed fake I-C title story)

[King Kamala 0]

I like Honky. He makes me laugh and his shoots are incredibly entertaining. But man does he have a bloated sense of self-importance

 

Don't get me wrong- he was a good perhaps even great Intercontinental Champion but a lot of his success has to be attributed to the quality of his opponents. Jake Roberts, Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat and "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan all had mini-feuds or full-fledged feuds with HTM and they were the biggest guys behind Hogan at the time. Even Brutus Beefcake was still pretty over when he fought Honky Tonk Man.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

It's funny how the whole "Greatest Intercontienental Champion of All Time" thing evolved from a joke to an accepted fact. The line was so tongue-in-cheek because of Honky's gimmick of getting DQed or counted out in every single match and having a joke of a reign. But it was said for so many years that he was the greatest that the new generation of fans just accepts it. Now, it's like "Wow, 14 months as champ? He must have been awesome!"

[King Kamala 0]

Personally I feel Honky is both underrated (by the IWC) and overrated (by the aforementioned new generation of fans). I'd probably put him in the lower half of my personal Top 10 IC Champs list. But we just had that thread six months ago...

 

 

I mean around the same time, Ric Flair was NWA World Champion and he was getting DQd and counted out all the time and it'd be internet blasphemy to call his title reign(s) a joke. I'm not saying Honky is in the same realm as Flair but there is a little bit of a double standard. Not to mention Flair was the focus of the company and Honky was a secondary heel.

[Fartsauce 0]

Was this the Wrestlemania that Jake Roberts put his snake near Trump's wife at the time and she tried getting his bodyguards to "shoot the fucking snake". I forget which book I read this in.

[Guest Nitro 24/7]

In one of Honky Tonk Mans shoots he says that he was told to drop the IC title to Savage at SNME/The Main Event and said he wouldnt do it, thats when he called WCW/NWA and said he wanted to go there.

 

The plan was for Ted Dibiase to win the WWF title at wrestlemania 4 and for Savage to win the IC title from HTM at the SNME/The Main Event. Honky went and had the match with Savage but it was a shmoz ending. So Vince then allowed Savage to win the WWF title at Wrestlemania 4 but it was supposed to be Ted Dibiase winning the WWF title and Savage winning the IC title at the SNME/The Main Event show.

 

We've heard this song and dance before from Honky, but I believe that it has been refuted by other sources who worked for the company. As others have pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense to change the booking of your world title program because the freaking Honky Tonk Man doesn't want to play ball.

 

It wouldn't be the first time Honky pulled a fake story out to inflate his self-importance (see: Butch Reed fake I-C title story)

 

 

Only one way to find out for sure...The Ted Dibiase shoot maybe the Jimmy Hart shoot as well. I will see what I can find out.

 

Honky Tonk Man rules by the way.

[garfieldsnose 0]

One of the things I loved about WM IV & V was the entrance. Those stairs and ceiling were cool visuals for a wrestling event.

[Diamonddust 0]

In one of Honky Tonk Mans shoots he says that he was told to drop the IC title to Savage at SNME/The Main Event and said he wouldnt do it, thats when he called WCW/NWA and said he wanted to go there.

 

The plan was for Ted Dibiase to win the WWF title at wrestlemania 4 and for Savage to win the IC title from HTM at the SNME/The Main Event. Honky went and had the match with Savage but it was a shmoz ending. So Vince then allowed Savage to win the WWF title at Wrestlemania 4 but it was supposed to be Ted Dibiase winning the WWF title and Savage winning the IC title at the SNME/The Main Event show.

 

We've heard this song and dance before from Honky, but I believe that it has been refuted by other sources who worked for the company. As others have pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense to change the booking of your world title program because the freaking Honky Tonk Man doesn't want to play ball.

 

It wouldn't be the first time Honky pulled a fake story out to inflate his self-importance (see: Butch Reed fake I-C title story)

 

 

Only one way to find out for sure...The Ted Dibiase shoot maybe the Jimmy Hart shoot as well. I will see what I can find out.

 

Honky Tonk Man rules by the way.

 

Ted, according to HTM, contends that HTM refusing to drop the belt to Savage was the reason he didn't get the World Title. HTM also says Savage understood why he wouldn't want to drop the belt. HTM's reasoning behind refusing to drop the belt was that it was on television, and back during that period, a loss on television (Especially on NBC) would have been extremely damaging. He says that since he was on a pay-per-appearance deal, Vince could have jobbed him that night and cut him right after that.

[Guest Nitro 24/7]

In one of Honky Tonk Mans shoots he says that he was told to drop the IC title to Savage at SNME/The Main Event and said he wouldnt do it, thats when he called WCW/NWA and said he wanted to go there.

 

The plan was for Ted Dibiase to win the WWF title at wrestlemania 4 and for Savage to win the IC title from HTM at the SNME/The Main Event. Honky went and had the match with Savage but it was a shmoz ending. So Vince then allowed Savage to win the WWF title at Wrestlemania 4 but it was supposed to be Ted Dibiase winning the WWF title and Savage winning the IC title at the SNME/The Main Event show.

 

We've heard this song and dance before from Honky, but I believe that it has been refuted by other sources who worked for the company. As others have pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense to change the booking of your world title program because the freaking Honky Tonk Man doesn't want to play ball.

 

It wouldn't be the first time Honky pulled a fake story out to inflate his self-importance (see: Butch Reed fake I-C title story)

 

 

Only one way to find out for sure...The Ted Dibiase shoot maybe the Jimmy Hart shoot as well. I will see what I can find out.

 

Honky Tonk Man rules by the way.

 

 

OK heres the deal. I just listened to the Ted Dibiase shoot and what Honky Tonk Man said in his shoot is indeed a fact. Ted also says that he was supposed to win the WWF title at Wrestlemania 4 but because HTM wouldnt drop the IC title to Savage on SNME/The Main Event the plan was changed; so Vince to keep everyone happy then promised Savage the WWF title at Wrestlemania 4, HTM was able to keep his IC title, and Vince convinced Ted that the "Million Dollar Man" didnt need the WWF title , he can buy and create his own title : The Million Dollar Championship.

 

So there it is.

[Guest Nitro 24/7]

"Lets talk about..." is a great topic by the way because there is so many back stories to certain events in pro wrestling.

 

Lets keep these going!

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The Butch Reed IC title story has been confirmed by numerous people.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Something that does lend some credence to the Butch Reed story is that he had a non-title match against Steamboat that had an indecisive finish on Challenge. I think Steamboat won by countout.

[King Kamala 0]

I haven't seen it with my own two eyes (so it may be complete bullshit) but wasn't Butch Reed seen amongst all of the heels during HTM's backstage celebration after he won the title?

 

 

Hey, speaking of next week's "Let's Talk About...", who wants to pick the topic?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The Butch Reed IC title story has been confirmed by numerous people.

 

Butch Reed was at the show where Honky won the belt. He was even seen celebrating with HTM after the match. Doesn't that debunk the whole no-show story?

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Kind of, according to Cawthon's site, Reed did not wrestle at the taping even though he was backstage. Kind of silly to have a 4-5 hour taping and not use one of your guys for anything other than a backstage cameo.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's possible Reed simply wasn't anywhere to be found when it came time to set up and have the match. For Reed to be there and yet not wrestle does seem like something was up, especially when it appears just about every other person on the roster had a match that night.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Was this the Wrestlemania that Jake Roberts put his snake near Trump's wife at the time and she tried getting his bodyguards to "shoot the fucking snake". I forget which book I read this in.

Yes.

 

I'd like to call dibs on next week's "Let's Talk About..."

[cabbageboy 0]

The way things turned out ended up way better than this would be booking in 1988. Savage was flat out over enough to main event and be world champ. Putting the IC back on him would be stupid and pointless. Sure, he never quite beat HTM, but I'd say the WWF title is a nice consolation.

 

I'll explain the difference between HTM and Flair. Flair's dubious runs were near the end of Dusty Rhodes' booking tenure in the NWA, when Dusty was trying to either get Flair to job or to make him look bad as champ. However, Flair had already had some excellent title runs before that 1987-88 period and he would go on to have an amazing 1989. Flair did win quite a few matches clean in the 1980s, and also went the 60m with a bunch of guys as well.

 

HTM? Shit wrestler, had shitty matches, and retained quite literally due to countout or DQ. I've always been aghast at anyone who seriously thinks he was the Greatest IC Champ of All Time. Based on what exactly? His stellar Win-Loss record as champ? His great matches?

[King Kamala 0]

HTM? Shit wrestler, had shitty matches, and retained quite literally due to countout or DQ. I've always been aghast at anyone who seriously thinks he was the Greatest IC Champ of All Time. Based on what exactly? His stellar Win-Loss record as champ? His great matches?

 

I think he's an underrated bumper and he was half-decent on the stick. He's far from the greatest IC Champ of all time and probably isn't even in The Top 5. His reign was supposed to be a joke and in that way, it worked. I can see both sides of the argument, the IWC side who thinks he was terrible (You could have put Jeff Jarrett circa '99 in a time machine, gave him the title and it would have been just as successful. This type of reign was just born to draw heat and virtrol) or the side that thinks he was a decent champ. I lean towards the latter.

 

Alright that's the last time I'm defending Honky in this thread.

[Mike wanna be 0]

With Kamala down, guess I have to pick up the HTM defense.

 

One could argue that the DQs and count-outs established him as a great IC champion. You concede he was a shitty wrestler; if you're going to kayfabe it, HTM knows he's a shitty wrestler. He knows he isn't going to feasibly out-wrestle most of the #1 contenders for his title. He recognizes he has a very slim chance of putting himself in, or having his opponent inadvertently put him in, a situation where he can win the match and retain the title; so he instead opts to put himself into the inverse situation, one where he cannot lose the title.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The "greatest IC champion" talk was Honky himself referencing his record reign length, not any serious analytical talk. Classic bombastic heel schtick.

[King Kamala 0]

The "greatest IC champion" talk was Honky himself referencing his record reign length, not any serious analytical talk. Classic bombastic heel schtick.

 

You summed it up what I was trying to say better in one sentence than I could in two paragraphs.

 

Back to the subject at hand, what's everybody's MOTN? Worst MOTN?

 

 

Personally, my favorite was Steamboat-Valentine with Demolition-Strike Force a close 2nd.

 

Worst would be Hogan-Andre with the surprisingly boring Roberts-Rude draw in 2nd. I remember Hercules-Warrior was also shitty but at least it was kind of short.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

That's sort of what I figured.

 

And I hope nobody accuses me of being a WrestleMania V hater. I've probably rented that tape more times than any other. Survivor Series '89, Royal Rumble '92, and WWF Wrestling World Tour ('92 edition with Ric Flair Vs Kerry Von Erich, Bret Hart Vs Rick Martel, and The British Bulldog and LOD Vs The Repo Man and The Nasty Boys) probably could claim that title as well.

 

I hate this tape and this match is not on it. It has Kerry von Erich vs. The Mountie but mine doesn't. What?!?!

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

Best Match of the Night

Ted DiBiase vs. Don Muraco

 

Worst Match of the Night

Rick Rude vs. Jake Roberts

[MillenniumMan831 0]

That's sort of what I figured.

 

And I hope nobody accuses me of being a WrestleMania V hater. I've probably rented that tape more times than any other. Survivor Series '89, Royal Rumble '92, and WWF Wrestling World Tour ('92 edition with Ric Flair Vs Kerry Von Erich, Bret Hart Vs Rick Martel, and The British Bulldog and LOD Vs The Repo Man and The Nasty Boys) probably could claim that title as well.

 

I hate this tape and this match is not on it. It has Kerry von Erich vs. The Mountie but mine doesn't. What?!?!

 

There were two World Tour tapes released in 1992. The one w/ Von Erich vs Mountie was "World Tour 92" and also had Savage/Michaels, a battle royal, and gobs more (Also had the same Hart/Martel match as the other vid). It was priced for rental.

 

"Wrestling World Tour" was priced to own ($10ish at the time of release), was an hour, and had the matches Kamala mentioned plus Bushwhackers vs Beverly Brothers from a random ep of Prime Time.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Best Match of the Night

Ted DiBiase vs. Don Muraco

 

Worst Match of the Night

Rick Rude vs. Jake Roberts

 

Agreed there. Muraco/DiBiase had another fun match at SNME in the spring of 1988. Surprisingly, it was semi-billed as a #1 Contender's Match IIRC.

[King Kamala 0]

Semi off topic but that Ric Flair Vs Kerry Von Erich match was really fun and was the main reason why I loved that tape. As a mark, I thought the Texas Tornado had a shot at upsetting Flair. Ah to be young and stupid.