TSM Town Hall: Elimination Chamber

[Dandy 0]

I figured we could use some decent discussion in this folder. Maybe a topic a week (unless the topic doesn't get enough discussion for a full week) for a few weeks and see how it goes. The subject could be a wrestler, an angle, a PPV, a match, a maneuver, etc. I doubt this will be the saving grace for the folder, but maybe we could get some decent discussion going on.

 

This week, we shall discuss the Elimination Chamber. Give your opinions on the concept of the match, and what its future may hold. Does it get you more excited than usual for a PPV? Are you totally apathetic toward the event? How could they do it better? After stating your opinion on the match, answer the following questions:

 

1. What was your favorite EC match?

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match?

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC?

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is?

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches?

[The Niggardly King 0]

Goldturd ruined the match for me, sorry.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

My favorite one was the original. It should be used for title matches, but I thought using it for a title shot was a nice change that should be used more often. And having it once a year is enough like HITC.

[The Truthiness 0]

1. What was your favorite EC match? Raw No Way Out 2008

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match? Umaga samoan dropping HBK and Y2J at the same time.

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC? Don't know.

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is?Less

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches? Title matches.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Good stuff here, considering I just finished watching No Way Out today.

 

Honestly, it is a concept that seems terrific in theory but comes out flat in execution. I would be hard-pressed to find a really great multi-man elimination match in any format. It just doesn't lend itself to great matches.

 

1. What was your favorite EC match?

 

I think the first one was the best of the lot. A couple memorable spots including Van Dam injuring HHH, and a popular title change.

 

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match?

 

Umaga crushing Chris Jericho through the plexiglass was as good as anything I've seen.

 

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC?

 

I don't have that creative of a mind. I'd think one of the plexiglass panels breaking with a wrestler still inside, but that could be altogether dangerous.

 

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is?

 

Less often, once a year at most.

 

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches?

 

Yes, otherwise it is very difficult to explain why six men are beating the piss out of each other in a gigantic steel structure.

[The Niggardly King 0]

One spot I hope to see is a wrestler climbing to the top of it, going across the middle with his arms, and dropping a legdrop or a big splash.

[Dandy 0]

I have always liked the Elimination Chamber as a whole. I, like most people, wanted WarGames to be brought back for WWE to use. This is not WarGames, but it seemed to be a decent enough concept. I liked the fact that all the entrants were already inside the cage, and there would be no coin flip to determine which side went in. Also, it was not set up for team matches, though it certainly could be adapted as such. More on that later. The chain instead of regular cages or fencing didn't make a big difference for me, but it was a slight change that makes it different than other cage matches, so it was an okay addition. The chamber idea with a timer was the part that I liked the best.

 

This match does not have the history of Hell in the Cell, and I don't think it ever will. I don't think they will be going to the top of the Chamber for "Holy Shit!" spots any time soon. However, it is now hard to top previous HIAC matches when they bring that match back every other year or so. The EC doesn't have that obstacle at the moment.

 

One of the major things I don't like about the EC is that the chamber was hyped as having bulletproof glass, which has been shattered a few times. They should have had they foresight to either not hype it as such, or not plan any spots where the glass would be shattered. One other thing I don't like is that even though it is set up fairly well to prevent other from coming into the chamber, they still have the problem of letting a defeated wrestler exit the cage, which opens up opportunities for outside interference. Perhaps if they had to go into a small outer cage and have the door shut behind them before the outer door was opened for them to exit. That is just a kayfabe issue to make it that much more an isolated match to prevent interference.

 

To me, this match is the ultimate setup for a 6 man elimination. However, it could also be used for teams or stables to face off and end a fead, a la War Games. For a four on four situation, however, there would have to be a slight modification to allow for the other two entrants. I guess you could just start of with two on two instead of one on one. I don't know.

 

As for the future of the match, I see it becoming a staple of No Way Out, but I hope it doesn't become a yearly tradition to determine the number on contenders for the titles at WM, as that would ruin the Rumble's tradition. I do see it being used only in title matches or to name a contender unless they modify it for stables. If it is used for No Way Out, you have a strong lineup of Rumble, No Way Out, and WM.

 

Now for the questions:

1. I haven't seen the two newest chamber matches, so as of now, my favorite is the first one in late 2002.

2. RVD's frog splash off the top of a chamber to injure Triple H. He didn't really get much air, but it looked devestating, which in retrospect it was just that.

3. I would have the glass not shatter, and have someone that has bladed get thrown into the glass at some point. It is a very simple spot, but I think it would have a cool visual if someone slowly slid down the glass after impact, leaving a smear of blood on the glass as a result. I would also like to see more spots of maneuvers or throws over the ropes onto the steel floor.

4. I don't think the EC is overused at the moment, but they really shouldn't do it more than it is. Once a year or so would make it more effective.

5. I answered this above. Yes, it will be reserved for that unless it is modified for stables to end feuds.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I haven't seen enough to fairly answer the question, but here's my nickel with three pennies back:

 

 

Once a year. Same show each year: Give it to Raw and SD gets HIAC, or vice versa. The intrigue of it is what makes it special. Having it on the same show would give it a unique allure; imagine if there were three Royal Rumbles a year. And I prefer the idea of having it for the #1 contendership rather than a title match. The title shouldn't need a gimmick, and it opens the door for re-hashed booking (heel champion finds a way to overcome the odds).

 

I still like it altogether, however.

[SamoaRowe 0]

1. What was your favorite EC match?

The original one from Survivor Series 2002.

 

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match?

As much as I disliked the match in general, Test's elbow drop off the top at December to Dismember was awesome. I also loved when RVD caught onto the cage and jumped back off (at Survivor Series).

 

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC?

Anything involving multiple people fighting on top of a chamber.

 

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is?

As is, with the exception that there were two at No Way Out.

 

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches?

With this year's No Way Out, I think we learned that it works much better to determine a contender. None of the title match EC matches were satisfying ways to crown new champions, or retain.

 

[Dandy 0]

I'm glad this is getting some discussion. Feel free to do a little more discussion than just answering the questions, though. I just threw those out there, but discussions and opinions will breed more discussion.

[Hawk 34 0]

I thought the comparison between Elimination Chamber and the oft-desired return of War Games was spot on. Nothing can duplicate the quality that those matches produced before they became sterilized. Independent promotions and TNA have attempted to duplicate it but ultimately failed. WWE was wise to create a unique gimmick of its own here and it works for the most part. Like most things in life, especially in the professional wrestling business, it has flaws. I’d like to offer my brief review/opinions on each match and then answer the supplied questions.

 

Let’s start off at the beginning, when this concept was unclear. It was essential to have a good combination of talent to properly execute such a strange concept and they succeeded with Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Jericho, RVD, Booker T and Kane. This had the difficult task of replacing the always popular survivor series match up but the spectacle and novelty of it made up for its absence. Shawn going over was a good and memorable moment, so it helped begin the legacy of the Elimination Chamber.

 

As good as that legacy was built by Shawn’s victory; it was nearly destroyed in full by the horrible booking of the Summer Slam 2003 version. Goldberg marching through the ring and dominating was the right idea. Triple H taking him out despite a very noticeable and affecting injury with very little effort was a near disaster. This effectively killed Goldberg in WWE, which was probably the intended direction but if that was the case, it didn’t need to be done in the EC. However, this wasn’t the worst example and we’ll return to it.

 

The quality and importance of the Elimination Chamber was revived with the NYR event that some people inaccurately believe was won by Batista. Believe it or not, Triple H actually won that in a sneaky and downright brilliant tactic to gain a notch on his march to 16 without losing the title at all. The lone negative of this match was that Benoit and Edge, the impetus for the match were swiftly eliminated. The in-ring stuff was top-notch at this point for this concept match.

 

The following event which took a year later was the least suspenseful and star loaded to that point. It involved Carlito and Chris Masters and not only that, they were the runner-ups. This entire spectacle is noteworthy for one reason and that was Edge ushering in another WWE gimmick creation, the MITB contract, to figuratively “steal” the title from John Cena. This has become a staple of Edge’s career.

 

The absolute worst EC match from involved talent, booking, match quality and importance is the EXTREME edition of it. All the barbed-wired bats, chairs, crowbars and tables couldn’t save this atrocity. The supposedly planned set-up from Paul Heyman for this match could have been something special but in a classic misfire from Vince McMahon, they went a total different way. There was not one redeemable moment in this match aside from the tease of RVD-CM Punk, which has yet to occur and probably never will.

 

After a considerable hiatus, the EC returned,not with just one match but two. The change was that a title wasn’t on the line but rather a shot at the title. Something that was considered controversial in some parts as it’s believed that it takes away from the value of the Royal Rumble victory.

 

Each match was separated by brands and the first match of the night was the one with a rough cast. The match didn’t do much aside from a thoroughly satisfying finish from Batista and Undertaker who continued to show good chemistry with each other. The rest of the match, aside from the short moments with MVP and Undertaker, was largely forgettable.

 

The follow-up and main event of that card was for the Raw brand. This had more intrigue as the winner was still debatable in the minds of some viewers between HHH and Jeff Hardy. Naturally, the finish saw those two at the end. This was a much better EC match across the board and one of the better ones yet. Triple H won his 3rd EC chamber and can now effectively claim this as his match.

 

 

1. What was your favorite EC match?

I would be hesitant to claim this as the “best” but I do believe my favorite edition of this match was the original. Maybe it’s the aforementioned memorable moment of Shawn's victory or the novelty of being the first match that still resonates over the others.

 

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match?

I enjoyed a good deal of the acrobatics that RVD displayed despite the limited range but ironically, it was the least acrobatic spot that stood out. The frog splash onto HHH in the inaugural match was, like Dandy claimed, gruesome. An honorable mention goes to Umaga and his double Samoan Drop at the most recent event as well as the UT/Batista tombstone reversal finish.

 

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC?

I don’t know if I’m creative enough to conjure up something original but I would like to see someone hang like Spider-Man onto the top/side of the chain fence for an extended period of time as a measure of defense/escape but that’s been done to a certain extent.

 

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is?

I’m fine with it as an annual event at this point although the initial matches were based off feuds that spawned six people that could only end with that gimmick but if it allows a smaller show to have a marketable gimmick like the Rumble or Cyber Sunday, then by all means, make it an annual occurrence. I don’t believe it should be done at No Way Out, however. I think it’d be a good bookend to the Rumble as the final event of the PPV year at Armageddon, another event that often goes under the radar by fans since it’s sandwiched between Series and Rumble.

 

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches?

I think it’s probably more suited for a title shot purpose right now, especially if it leads to a title shot at the Rumble.

 

[Guest droptoehold]

1. What was your favorite EC match? The First

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match? Goldberg Bustin Out!!!!

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC? I'll leave that to them

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is?

Once a year...make a secondary PPV a bit better. Make a No Way Out PPV the home of the EC

and a shot at the title not being sought after by the Rumble winner.

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches? Contender Match

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I've only actually seen two EC matches (the first one and the Goldberg one); I thought the first one was good, especially considering it was the first and they didn't really have too much to go on. Did not like the second, mostly because of the booking.

 

Also, the first one kinda annoyed me because, if I recall, they said that the order of entry into the Chamber would be random, but it was the exact same (or very very close) as the order the guys were introduced. I thought that was silly, especially because it was such an easy fix (either don't say it was random, or change the order up).

 

That said, I think they should use the EC only once per year, at No Way Out. Have it be the match where they determine the OTHER WM title match - Like, say if Cena hadn't used his shot already, and he was going to wrestle Orton at WM; they would then have had one EC match at NWO, Smackdown-only, to determine what the World title match would be.

 

I don't think it would de-value the Rumble to do this, because it would still be better to win the Rumble, kayfabe-wise. If you do that, you can pick who you want to wrestle, plus they could start booking all those title matches to be the final match of the night (they don't always do this, I don't think), so you also get that if you win the RR.

 

Oh, and I realize that I left ECW out of this, but they could come up with something else for them, I guess. Maybe an annual tournament? I dunno.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I remember when Bischoff first introduced it as a combination of the Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, and War Games. Had me quite intrigued. While I didn't hate the original, I couldn't get into it since HBK winning it was as bad as HHH keeping the belt at the time. I've since mellowed out to Michaels as my petty hatred for a worker as shifted to Edge ever since the spear has been sold as a main event finisher but that's neither here nor there.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I watched both NWO EC matches on youtube and I have to say that the SD one was just awful. There was no need to have 6 guys fight for the #1 spot when it was pretty clear the only two with any chance were Taker and Batista. A 1 on 1 Taker/Batista match would have been much better. the Raw match was better because everyone in the match at least could have a tad bit of believability in them winning but it got dragged down by having to follow the boring SD EC match.

 

Whoever thought "lets do 2 EC matches on one PPV" should have been fired..terrible idea.

 

 

[Papacita 0]

1. What was your favorite EC match?

- Of the ones I've seen, the Batista one was my favorite. The first was good but I still don't like the "Shawn, Hunter, and everybody else" vibe it had; it made it really predictable, and the lame duck reign for Shawn just made the whole match seem meaningless to me at the end of the day. Even though the 05 version was mainly about the HHH/Batista storyline, the other players, the other players were (save Jericho) came in relatively strong as well so there was a lot more suspense to this one. The action here is good and I loved the story with Batista. I haven't seen any chamber matches since, so I really can't compare.

 

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match?

- RVD's Spiderman spot still stands out.

 

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC?

- I dunno.

 

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is?

- I like the idea of doing it annually. I remember thinking they were going to do it every year at Survivor Series. I prefer that to one of the bs PPVs.

 

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches?

- Sure. Why not?

[HellSpawn 0]

1. What was your favorite EC match?

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match?

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC?

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is?

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches?

 

1.- NWO 2K8 Raw match

2. Again.. the "tag team" elimination of Umage.. Everyone hittin his finishing moves on him.

3. Mmm.. I dunno. How about a Tag Teams match. I mean, 6 teams .

4. I guess one every year colud be fine.. maybe one match for SD and one for Raw. But not at the same PPV.

5. Yes.

[Superfly Snuka 0]

I mentioned this in another thread awhile ago but as a fan actually attending the event, this has to be the worst match to see live (or not see really). With all the chain obstructing vision and more significantly, the camera guys blocking the fans vision VERY significantly. it's amatch much better to see at home than actually attend. I saw the NYR chamber in Albany, was 3rd row, and it was awful as a paying customer viewing wise. Though, it's my favorite EC because it was the only one that almost came to be what it should be: to put over a talent (s) that isn't big yet but should be pushed. When Carlito and Masters were two of the last 3, when most figured they'd be the first two gone, it was very exciting and the whole teaming up together to take everyone out was done quite well. Not saying that Carlito/MAsters should have been a long time champion (could have easily been beaten at RR two weeks later like they did with Edge) but it would should be the one type of match where UNPREDICTABILITY rules, given there are so many variables (6 guys, random order of entry). The Royal Rumble (aside from this year) and Mania, and usually SS are so predictable in terms of who's going over usually that the WWE needs this match to be the one that is different.

 

Just my two cents.

[Toxxic 0]

The one spot I really want to see in the Chamber is someone who is mad to get at another guy in the Chamber released from his pen, ignore what's going on in the ring, head straight across to where his rival is penned and start trying to kick the glass down to get to him. It'd give an atmosphere of real ferocity, and put over that when Wrestler B is 'released', he has nowhere to go but towards the guy waiting for him.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

ECs ranked best to worst:

 

1.) Survivor Series 2002: Can't beat the first one, completely awesome and very long. RVD was eliminated too early though, and Booker T could have last a little longer. It took Jericho's, Michaels', and Triple H's finishers in succession to eliminate Kane. Jericho lasted a half hour and did awesome, but was eliminated fourth. The Triple H/Shawn Michaels ending was cool because the two battled one on one for a long time. Ending was great, nice to see Michaels win.

 

2.) RAW Chamber No Way Out 2008: Great match, highly entertaining. They picked the best guys to compete in this match and they all had moments to shine. JBL gets knocked out early, but comes back in the ring with steel chairs and beats up everyone. Umaga's double samoan drop on Jericho and Michaels was cool. His elimination was even better: Codebreaker, Sweet Chin Music, Pedigree, then a SWANTON BOMB OFF A POD FROM HARDY! Jericho was immediately hit with Sweet Chin Music after and eliminated. Right after this was Michaels getting hit with a Twist of Fate from Hardy and a Pedigree from Triple H. Triple H vs. Hardy, with Triple H winning after a Pedigree on a steel chair. Very enjoyable match.

 

3.) New Year's Revolution 2005: Fantastic match. Everyone had a chance to look good and no one was eliminated super early like in the other ones. Nearly as good as the first one. Edge was the first one out but didn't get eliminated until almost 20 minutes into the match, nice Sweet Chin Music by our special guest ref. HBK. Batista was great in this match as was Benoit and Jericho. Batista eliminated both of them, the spinebuster to Jericho on top of Benoit was neat. Batista gets eliminated cheap by Orton, but Triple H gets him back for it by winning the match. Long and brutal match, good ending if you like heels.

 

4.) Smackdown/ECW Chamber No Way Out 2008: Not as good as RAW chamber but still good match. A few guys were wasted though. Big Daddy V was eliminated after a couple minutes after a DDT on the steel floor. Probably for the best as a giant fatass can't really wrestle very well. The Great Khali was most wasted as he got eliminated early as well. He dominated while he was in there, so it wasn't too bad. Undertaker and Batista really put on a clinic, the match was clearly all about them. They used the chamber well and carried the match. MVP's elimination was cool: a chokeslam off a pod by Undertaker. Finlay lasted a while into the match and also did well, eventually eliminated after an Undertaker chokeslam. Undertaker won in the end, good match.

 

5.) Summerslam 2003: Wow they screwed this up. They had a bunch of kickass wrestlers in this match yet couldn't do anything with it. Kevin Nash gets about 2 minutes in the match before his elimination, then shows his anger by destroying everyone before he leaves. Triple H gets hit with Sweet Chin Music right as his pod opens, then falls back into his pod and stays there for most of the match. Michaels and Jericho performed well in the match, and Orton did decently. Goldberg enters last and destroys everybody. He delivered a nice spear to Jericho through a pod. He eliminates Orton after a spear, Michaels after a spear and Jackhammer, then Jericho after a spear and Jackhammer. Remember, Triple H has been in the match the entire time. Goldberg breaks down Triple H's pod and beats the hell out of him, but Ric Flair passes Triple H the sledgehammer and he hits Goldberg in the head with it to win the match. They screwed the match up so bad. It ended up being the shortest chamber ever (Why the Hell did they change the Pod opening to 3 minutes?), Triple H didn't do crap and Goldberg gets screwed.

 

6.) New Year's Revolution 2006: Come on, an elimination chamber featuring Carlito and Chris Masters? Give me a break. One of the worse elimination chamber matches. Michaels and Cena had a good battle in the beginning, and that continued as Carlito entered. Carlito was pretty boring to watch though. Then Angle enters and dominates. But all of a sudden he gets eliminated first after Sweet Chin Music from Michaels. Way too early for him. It gets worse once Masters enters. Masters and Carlito team up against Michaels and Cena. Cena spends much of the match getting his ass kicked. Michaels was easily the top performer, but gets a cheap elimination after a rolling cutter from Carlito. Kane's elimination was even worse. He got eliminated before Michaels, got a few short minutes in the match before he got hit with a double DDT then had Masters slam Carlito on him. Down to three, Masters and Carlito bust open Cena and beat the crap out of him. Carlito turn on and low blows Masters and rolls him up for a pin, but this gives Cena an opening to roll up Carlito after and win the match. Very bad match, they used the wrong guys for this.

 

7.) December to Dismember 06: Oh god what a pile of crap this match was. The only chamber to feature weapons and this ends up being the worst one. They didn't have any really great guys in the match except for Punk and RVD. Big Show and Lashley are alright, but Punk was eliminated too early. Same goes for RVD. Who else was in it? Hardcore Holly? Test? What the hell? Holly eliminated early, Test doesn't do crap and gets speared by Lashley. Lashley wins the match after spearing the Big Show. Awful match and Lashley wins. Ugh.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

This formula writes itself, though it may not sell a lot of PPV's:

 

Rumble in January, winner gets title shot as normal. Whichever show he challenges, the opposite gets EC the following month at No Way Out. Winner of EC at No Way Out represents their show for the title at WM.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

This came during an EC match, but it's not so much an EC spot. Still one of my favourites:

 

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6376/gold...slamss03xr5.gif

 

During Goldberg's rampage, he just slams the shit out of Orton.

[daileyxplanet 0]

One thing I will add. I think it would be a good idea to marry War Games and the Chamber for one shot down the road when there are two worthy stables.

[hitman82 0]

1. What was your favorite EC match? First one.

2. What was your favorite spot from an EC match? None that stand out.

3. What spot have you thought of that would be great in the EC? No sure, but I would have a Tag Team Elimination Chamber.

4. Should this match be done less often, more often, or as is? Once a year.

5. Should the match be reserved for title matches/contender matches? Title matches only.