Monday Night Wars

[Ed Wood Caulfield 0]

To back up a bit, yes I know exactly what WCW was trying to say with the Sting angle. And yes, the initial angle was really excellent stuff with Sting being accused. The problem is that it went on forever.

 

Well, that was just WCW listening to the fans on that one. The fans LOVED Sting as the superhero who saved the day, so they kept with it and kept with it until the anticipation was so high that everybody and their mother would pay to see Sting take on Hogan. Which they did. So obviously, they did something right. Plus, Starrcade was their biggest pay-per-view of the year, so it made sense to do the big match there.

 

And having Sting take on other nWo guys would have killed the mystique BEFORE the Hogan match. The whole appeal was that Sting was this mythical superhero who terrified Hogan. To put him in a match before Starrcade would just remind the fans that this was the same old Sting that wrestled from 1987-1996 in numerous television shows. And it wasn't what the fans wanted to see anyway. They wanted to see Sting take on Hogan. I don't know if Sting vs. Buff Bagwell at say Halloween Havoc would have gotten the buyrate Sting vs. Hogan at Starrcade 1997 got. Besides, it was kind of approriate saving Sting's in-ring return for a match against his arch-nemesis.

 

And the match at Starrcade would have been better if Sting actually got more offense. Hogan had spent 18 months running away from the guy, and then all of a sudden, he got the courage, what, overnight, to fight Sting? It made no sense from a storyline perspective.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Ed Wood Caulfield

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

And the match at Starrcade would have been better if Sting actually got more offense. Hogan had spent 18 months running away from the guy, and then all of a sudden, he got the courage, what, overnight, to fight Sting? It made no sense from a storyline perspective.

 

On a smaller scale, this is exactly how I felt about the Summer `06 angle between Big Show and Sabu. All of Heyman's promos put Sabu over as a crazy mad man that could take Show's title, but for all that talk and hype, Sabu sure managed to job in spectacular fashion in every match they had.

[Ed Wood Caulfield 0]

Hogan should have only gotten offense after cheating. It was the perfect oppoturnity for him to use every single dirty heel tactic imaginable. Hogan should have gotten control over Sting by choking him, scratching his back, choking him some more, not starting the match by applying a headlock for TWO MINUTES!

 

And Sting should have no-sold more. If he could no sell the nWo attacking him, then he could have easily no sold whatever Hogan tried to do to him. At one point in the match, Hogan did a suplex, but Sting stood right back up. That was one of the few things they did *right* in that match. Sting should have gone all Undertaker on Hogan.

 

Nobody was expecting a ***** classic. Atleast I don't think so, what with Sting not wrestling for 16 months, and Hogan...being Hogan. But you would think they wouldn't book Sting to look like such a chump after spending a YEAR AND A HALF of building him up as an unstoppable Superman to the point that more fans brought Starrcade 1997 than any other pay-per-view in WCW history!

Edited October 21, 2008 by Ed Wood Caulfield

[Enigma 0]

Yes, Sting's magic would have sort of disappeared after the title win. But what SHOULD have happened after Starrcade was to shift the focus off Sting and focus on the complete crumbling of the nWo. But what did WCW do? They kept the nWo going and made them feud with themselves, which took some of WCW's top faces (Sting and Lex Luger) and put them in nWo shirts. Who really wanted to see Sting wearing an nWo shirt considering what all he went through with them for a year and a half?

 

One of the big criticisms about the nWo angle, which Flair event mentioned on WWE 24/7 a few weeks ago, was that the nWo just fizzled out after feuding with each other and the big Georgia Dome schmozz. WCW never got the big, decisive, once-and-for-all victory over the nWo to cause it to collapse.

 

Sting still had a little bit of an allure to him because he still didn't say anything until a few weeks after Starrcade. What I would have done is build up Sting's first comments and after he did that, slowly transition him back to the old Sting now that he got his revenge. Also, just have the nWo completely fall apart and start fighting with each other. Instead of making the nWo damn bigger, just take the guys you wanted to become faces out of the group (Nash, Savage, and Konnan) and have them just join the WCW side.

[cabbageboy 0]

Agreed. The NWO angle needed to end after Starrcade 97. It needed to crumble. I dunno, I can't say I was really all that interested in this whole Sting/Hogan angle even at the time. Certainly not compared to the total insanity going on in the WWF in late 1997. I think part of this is that I was simply sick of Hogan being a world champion, particularly when he was jobbing in every major non title match. With Piper beating his ass at every turn why on earth would anyone think the mythic Sting couldn't crush Hogan?

 

I think Sting's whole appeal was a smoke and mirrors act. A guy who is over mainly because he isn't wrestling and isn't cutting promos is someone that isn't going to stay over in the long run. Sure, maybe it takes away Sting's "mystique" to actually show up for work and WRESTLE (gasp!), but the fundamental booking is better that way in the long term.

[shadylpete 0]

In the book "The Death of WCW", they mention that sting's contract wouldn't allow him to wrestle. His contract had a set number of matches for a set period of time, and WCW hit the limit. So they came up with this for the whole year. I think it worked perfectly.

[Darth Pipes 0]

Agreed. The NWO angle needed to end after Starrcade 97. It needed to crumble. I dunno, I can't say I was really all that interested in this whole Sting/Hogan angle even at the time. Certainly not compared to the total insanity going on in the WWF in late 1997. I think part of this is that I was simply sick of Hogan being a world champion, particularly when he was jobbing in every major non title match. With Piper beating his ass at every turn why on earth would anyone think the mythic Sting couldn't crush Hogan?

 

I think Sting's whole appeal was a smoke and mirrors act. A guy who is over mainly because he isn't wrestling and isn't cutting promos is someone that isn't going to stay over in the long run. Sure, maybe it takes away Sting's "mystique" to actually show up for work and WRESTLE (gasp!), but the fundamental booking is better that way in the long term.

 

Sting should have won the title by destroying Hogan. One of the biggest dropped balls in wrestling history.

 

I doubt the NWO angle would have ended then but it should have at least by the turning point. WCW goes on offense against the NWO and the feud is resolved later in 1998 at War Games. There was never any resolution to the NWO storyline. They became too big and then just faded away.

[Jericholic82 0]

This Nitro (10/13/97) had some moments. It marked the debut of Eddie's "Lowrider" type theme. I don't think Goldberg was using his 2nd, more famous WCW theme yet, but they dubbed in his WWE theme over whatever it was. Later McMichael had the 98 version of the Horseman theme dubbed in over what I assume was the debut of Mongo's post-horseman face theme(a Production theme called "Unledded"), which was later used by Hardcore Hak (Sandman).

Plus we saw the debut of Sick Boy, (not yet named) and Kidman into the Flock (which led to a ringside fan to loudly yell "Billy Kidman? OMG!)

The end of the tag title match was odd as they immediately cut back to the announcers and didn't even show the Steiners with the belts (Which for some reason were the old WCW belts and not the newer ones Hall & Nash had been wearing for most of 97. Though it did lead to an angle where they wore the new belts and pretended they were still champions) Weird they didn't show much celebration

[Jericholic82 0]

Sorry for yammering too much but I must say Eddie running in to steal Rey's mask was hella cool, and a totally dickish act at that.

Speaking of, I would be surprised if Scotty Riggs had children after Goldberg dropped him like that on the guardrail. Even the announcers seemed cringed by the replay.

Plus the debut of the Spear was cool . (As well as them naming the Jackhammer as such)

[cabbageboy 0]

I didn't really react to the tag title change since I assumed a Dusty Finish was coming due to Larry Z. counting the pin. I guess since he was a ref at the upcoming PPV he was allowed to count a pin?

 

The more perplexing moment was that US title match. DDP actually pinned Hennig before Flair entered the ring, yet the ref apparently gave Hennig the belt back for....some reason. I do recall DDP winning the US title at Starrcade though. Was that finish botched?

[Boner Kawanger 0]

The Steiners keep the belts because Larry was made an Official of WCW the week before. I have no idea how they'll cover the DDP thing. It was definitely botched, and, of course, the announcers made it about a thousand times worse.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

(Watching this episode again since it'll be gone tomorrow) I noticed that at the start of the final segment, Tony notes that they are "well past the ten o'clock hour" as the Nitro Girls stumble through a dance routine. Here's where the trouble starts. They're well past ten and didn't cut the Nitro Girls. Then, when Flair tries to run out, he is held back by Doug Dillinger and security. For waaaaay too long. My guess is, in typical WCW fashion, no one told them to not really hold Flair back, thus Flair wasn't able to go after Hennig and cause the DQ in time. Of course the announcers would be clueless. Then there was no time to offer any explanation.

[franchise632 0]

New stuff is up for me

 

Just watched the Jeff Jarrett interview. I don't ever remember seeing this but he was doing a worked 'shoot' promo. It was interesting.

 

Shamrock was horrible in the opening match.

 

Looking forward to the rest of the show.

[KingPK 0]

That Jarrett promo was probably Russo's first instance of "well, the internet fans are talking about it, so EVERYONE must be!" booking where it flew over the heads of about 90% of the audience.

 

Michaels/Owen is a pretty good match.

Edited October 29, 2008 by KingPK

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

New set pieces for Michael Cole!

[Enigma 0]

King, these fans have the right to cheer, boo, or just raise Hell for whoever they want.

 

I wonder how much he struggled to say that.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think Jarrett cut the promo of his career on this Raw, although in the long run it hurt him more than it helped since Austin refused to work with him after the way Jarrett badmouthed his use of 3:16.

 

Seeing these shows again makes me take a look at Bret in a new light. You can really see that he was dogging it and was fatigued by the behind the scenes dealings. If Vince wanted to truly avoid the Montreal Screwjob he probably should have just had Bret job to Shamrock on this next Raw. Michaels/Shamrock happened in Dec. 97 anyway, so they could have put it on HBK there and been set for early 1998.

[KingPK 0]

That probably would have been logical, but then that means Survivor Series would have been completely fucked up and Shawn/Shamrock (which would have to be the new main event to keep the storyline) would have been completely shat upon. Then what does Bret do? Word of him going to WCW would be out by now so any farewell promo would probably have him booed out of the building.

Edited October 31, 2008 by KingPK

[zappafrank 0]

When do the "Attitude" promos start? Or have they already started and for some reason they're being cut from 24/7?

[Aero 0]

It should be pretty soon since I remember there being one (with Bret) at Survivor Series.

 

[Boner Kawanger 0]

So I keep seeing where DX eating the bananas is supposed to be a rib on Jim Cornette, but what's the rib referring to?

[Darth Pipes 0]

When do the "Attitude" promos start? Or have they already started and for some reason they're being cut from 24/7?

 

Vince gave the Attitude promo on a December 1997 Raw. This was the one that included them playing poker and/or laying waste to the Road Warriors with the Outlaws.

[Diamonddust 0]

So I keep seeing where DX eating the bananas is supposed to be a rib on Jim Cornette, but what's the rib referring to?

 

Apparently a video exists of Cornette sticking a banana up his ass. Not sure of the validity, though.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Aside from the DX antics, these last two episodes have been absolutely brutal. Good thing we're not far off from the Montreal Screwjob. Tough to say what happens and what doesn't happen based on Bret's departure, but everything seems so aimless right now.

[packwingfn 0]

3 Hour Nitros drag on for way too long. Especially since the whole 3rd hour, they just talk about Hogan-Sting.

 

Haven't watched Raw yet, plan to do that next.

[cabbageboy 0]

It didn't help that seemingly every match on Nitro in the last half of the show had a run in or DQ finish. DDP/Hogan was actually pretty good too, which was a nice surprise. But then DDP and Hogan had another fun match in 1999, where they destroyed the Nitro set to make way for the new logo.

 

It's hard to care about some of the stuff on these recent Raw shows, stuff like The Nation vs. Harts. Since we know what happens to Bret in a few weeks we know there isn't any sort of blowoff to this Nation angle, so it's tough to care. Taker isn't on TV during this period, selling the Kane angle while Mankind takes the beatdown. In fact aside from Montreal the whole last 2 months of 1997 were basically a wash for the WWF. Once January 1998 hit though they started building to the Rumble and then to WM and that produced some timeless wrestling TV.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Nitro's program description (and Michael Cole hyping a Hogan match at the end of the Raw portion) had me interested in this episode - Flair/Savage No DQ, Hogan in action, Rey/Malenko (I think that's what it said)... but then I saw it was a 3 hour episode and I didn't have time.

 

Raw was ok but kind of dull, and it will be there for 3 weeks too so the wait for the Lightheavyweight Tournament continues to be a long one. Cornette's rant was really good, though. One thing that caught my attention during Raw (besides the constant Hogan bashing, which was great, and Rock's t-shirt with the giant "R" on it - did he think he was a member of Team Rocket? I'm too old to be able to make that reference...) was the mention of the Pillman angle during the HHH/Goldust match. I thought it was odd they would bring it up as in my memory, they just kind of swept the whole deal under the rug. Then they said next week, Marlena would discuss her time with Pillman. It dawned on me that this must be the angle that led to Goldust becoming Forever Unchained / TAFKA Goldust. That sounds awful, but I really don't remember it.

[packwingfn 0]

Awww we really have Nitro/Raw for 3 weeks? I hate when they take 3 week gaps.

[cabbageboy 0]

I recall thinking that during that late 1997 era the WWF seemed like they were just reeling, while WCW was clicking as much as they could have been. The WWF had someone die during this period (Pillman) and then had their world champion leave and get "screwed" out of the title (Bret). Not to mention Austin being hurt and largely unable to wrestle.

 

Meanwhile WCW was building to their biggest PPV ever with Sting/Hogan and had signed away Bret Hart. They had a chance to put the WWF away, but Starrcade 97 sucked and the WWF rebounded with Austin in 1998.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

So I keep seeing where DX eating the bananas is supposed to be a rib on Jim Cornette, but what's the rib referring to?

 

Apparently a video exists of Cornette sticking a banana up his ass. Not sure of the validity, though.

 

Well, there goes my lunch.