Monday Night Wars

[shadylpete 0]

They have been airing. There was a Stone Cold one this week & last episode there was an Undertaker & Ahmed Johnson one.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

I really enjoyed the Rey/Jericho match. It had a couple of moves I feel like I've only seen in that match, such as the super gorilla press slam and the top top springboard 180 Frankensteiner. And to showcase the spectrum of my taste in wrestling, I kinda liked the atrocious, mindbogglingly long Lawler/Mero match, mostly for Lawler's cheap tactics. Plus, partly due to Lawler wrestling, we get Cornette on commentary, is pretty funny throughout. His disgusted reaction to Goldust is the highlight.

[garfieldsnose 0]

Yes. I remember this episode very well, it was one of the few I taped back then. My favorite part was when Kane comes out during the midget match and the midgets are hiding behind the commentators and Jim Ross says "we need some help out here" when the camera focuses on them and you don't see his lips moving. I was tipped that RAW was taped then, as if Rude showing up on Nitro didn't tip me off already.

[Darth Pipes 0]

I remember reading an interview with McMahon in 95 or 96 where he said the cost of doing a live show was over $100,000 and that's why they didn't do many of them. I think it was in April or May of 1999 when USA picked up the tab to ensure that Raw was live every week. With the money the company was making at the time, it's not a surprise.

 

I was at one of the last taped Raw shows that year.

[Enigma 0]

I think Raw started going live every week the week that Smackdown started. I remember Chris Jericho's second Raw appearance was definitely taped. It was the one where he interrupted Big Show & Undertaker, calling them boring. He debuted about three weeks before Smackdown started.

 

According to the numbers now, taping Smackdown cost about $600,000 a show. That is insane. I have no idea what a live Raw costs these days.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Yeah, it was definitely SmackDown in September '99 that caused Raw to be live every week, though they may have had more frequent live shows, I don't know. Hard to believe it was that far into the MNW but one of their biggest hits was Tony giving away the Foley title win for the first Raw of 1999. I remember reading spoilers all the time in high school - I wanted to avoid them but they were so tempting.

[Enigma 0]

If I recall, WWF.Com put the Foley title win on the fucking front page of the website a full 5 days before the show aired. But given how much the ratings jumped when Schiavone announced it, it shows you how little the Internet had to do with things back then.

[Darth Pipes 0]

I think yesterday marked 10 years since the airing of Foley's WWF title victory. I can't believe it's been that long. That means it's been 10 years since the Fingerpoke of Doom and the last time WCW was ever a serious threat.

[Promoter 0]

I think yesterday marked 10 years since the airing of Foley's WWF title victory. I can't believe it's been that long. That means it's been 10 years since the Fingerpoke of Doom and the last time WCW was ever a serious threat.

WOW! Got me feeling old over here. Doesn't feel THAT long.

 

I forgot RAW use to be taped and so deep into the MNW too.

 

Smackdown costs more than half a mill to produce? Damn!

 

 

[KingPK 0]

The switch to HD probably jacked up the costs since HD cameras ain't cheap.

[Slickster 0]

WWE's weekly production cost to tape an episode of Smackdown is about $630,000.

[cabbageboy 0]

The Fingerpoke of Doom has been given a lot of revisionist history that isn't true. Sure, it pissed people off at the time but take a look at the ratings following it. The angle didn't really cause immediate damage since it set up a ton of NWO guys for Goldberg to destroy in theory en route to facing Hogan and regaining. In fact the Hogan/Flair angle in early 99 did well in the ratings for WCW and the SuperBrawl right after the Fingerpoke did a 1.1 buyrate.

 

As far as Foley goes, I was on Winter break from college and had no net access back then so I knew nothing about his title win. And despite watching parts of Nitro I managed to never hear Schiavone's crap, so it caught me by total surprise.

[King Kamala 0]

Yeah I'll agree with you there, cabbage. I don't think anybody will deny that The Finger Poke of Doom as it happened sucked shit but if Goldberg had not gotten injured and had mowed down the nWo members one by one as planned, it certainly would have sucked significantly worse. But let's face it, Goldberg getting injured before he could avenge his loss and that confusing ass Flair/Hogan double turn are a lot less sexy reasons to blame WCW's demise on than The Finger Poke of Doom

[Guest Smues]

Goldberg certainly hurt things, but this is WCW we're talking about. There's no guarentee they'd have booked it properly anyway. And at my highschool anyway the next day everyone was a buzz over how awful the finger poke thing was, and not in the 'people are talking and will watch the show to see what happens' way but in the 'fuck this shit I'm not going to bother to flip over when Raw goes to commercials anymore' way.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm not sure what the deal is with Goldberg circa mid 1999. He wasn't around to be sure, but I don't recall an injury he had until the idiotic limo incident in Dec. 99. Wikipedia says he was filming Universal Soldier 2 at that point, so maybe that's where he was. What sort of crap is that though? Why start a huge angle with a guy if he's going to be off TV for 2-3 months filming a movie?

 

WCW hit a creative wall around the time of Spring Stampede 1999. That show had a lot of good stuff on it, but the main event was truly bizarre with DDP winning the title in a 4 way out of the blue. Guys were turning heel and face left and right: Hogan turned face for no reason, Flair turned heel despite months of NWO attacks, DDP turned heel despite being "injured" by Steiner, etc. The whole revived NWO angle played itself out quickly and Hogan got hurt at Stampede.

 

It was this crap that wrecked WCW. Stuff like Flair going to the nut house, or DDP's utter bomb of a title run in April/May 99. I sorta feel sorry for Page in a way, since his title win and run had zero chance of getting over: He came back after Steiner destroyed him, then turned heel for no reason at all. Then he was soundly thrashed by Hogan on the Nitro where they destroyed the old set. Then he was tossed into the PPV main event 4 way seemingly at random just to fill out a roster of 4 guys. Then he WINS the belt?? Keep in mind WCW put the title on an untested champion during a time period when the WWF was rolling in the post WM time period (Austin/Rock, Ministry angle, etc.). And I believe Nitro was preempted due to the NBA at various points as well.

 

Hogan getting hurt at Spring Stampede was a big problem, as was Goldberg filming the movie. I'm fairly sure Nash had the idea in mind to build to Goldberg getting to Hogan after going through the NWO guys, but those two things tanked that storyline. The Fingerpoke had little to do with all of that horrible stuff.

[Enigma 0]

Goldberg demanded to renegotiate his contract shortly after the fingerpoke of death and didn't show up again until the Bret Hart angle in Toronto. That's why he disappeared. They gave him a 5-year deal that originally wasn't supposed to expire until May 2004, but he took a buyout in early-2003 to sign a 1-year deal with WWE.

[cabbageboy 0]

Not sure of the timeline of all that...let's see. Goldberg was on the various PPVs in 1999 up until GAB or so. I'm hazy on what he did on weekly TV though. The Bret angle was on a March 99 Nitro I think. Was Goldberg filming the movie as a way of being off TV and demanding a new contract?

[KingPK 0]

Am I the only one that just can't watch an entire Nitro in one sitting? I can watch RAW fine (especially now with DX, Rock and Stone Cold beginning their ascent), but Nitro just seems to creep along and there's very little pacing. The NWO certainly doesn't help as it seems like they say the same shit week after week.

[shadylpete 0]

Am I the only one that just can't watch an entire Nitro in one sitting? I can watch RAW fine (especially now with DX, Rock and Stone Cold beginning their ascent), but Nitro just seems to creep along and there's very little pacing. The NWO certainly doesn't help as it seems like they say the same shit week after week.

 

It's not just you. Nitro seems to be the same thing every week to me, but I get through it thanks to some good matches.

[Diamonddust 0]

Am I the only one that just can't watch an entire Nitro in one sitting? I can watch RAW fine (especially now with DX, Rock and Stone Cold beginning their ascent), but Nitro just seems to creep along and there's very little pacing. The NWO certainly doesn't help as it seems like they say the same shit week after week.

 

It's not just you. Nitro seems to be the same thing every week to me, but I get through it thanks to some good matches.

 

And, as many people have pointed out before, a major reason why we're about to watch the WWE leave them in the dust.

[cabbageboy 0]

At this point these good matches on Nitro hadn't yet become ultra stale. In fact watching both of these shows I was thinking "Wow, WCW had Jericho, Rey, Eddie, Malenko...all this great talent. The WWF was pushing a few top level guys along with a bunch of scrubs that they managed to convince fans were decent."

 

As we get into 1998 it will become more apparent that the only fun stuff on Nitro was the non NWO related segments, though I doubt we get to see the Benoit/Booker series.

[Diamonddust 0]

At this point these good matches on Nitro hadn't yet become ultra stale. In fact watching both of these shows I was thinking "Wow, WCW had Jericho, Rey, Eddie, Malenko...all this great talent. The WWF was pushing a few top level guys along with a bunch of scrubs that they managed to convince fans were decent."

 

As we get into 1998 it will become more apparent that the only fun stuff on Nitro was the non NWO related segments, though I doubt we get to see the Benoit/Booker series.

 

Or even the Raven/Benoit/DDP stuff that was pretty decent as well.

[Ed Wood Caulfield 0]

Something that caught my attention when reading John Petrie's recap of this episode of WCW Monday Nitro.

 

John Petrie on the nWo beats up Larry Zbyszko segment.

 

Family entertainment? Bischoff has now pushed himself right up there with past promoters such as Jim Cornette and Paul E. Dangerously. If Vince McMahon tried this fans would scream their heads off.

 

I don't know about that. The WWF made a ton of money when Vince fought (or atleast tried to fight) Stone Cold Steve Austin.

[Darth Pipes 0]

Or even the Raven/Benoit/DDP stuff that was pretty decent as well.

 

I wouldn't count on seeing that on 24/7 nowadays.

[Enigma 0]

Or even the Raven/Benoit/DDP stuff that was pretty decent as well.

 

I wouldn't count on seeing that on 24/7 nowadays.

 

I do believe that was the point he was making.

[Guest Smues]

Watching the Dude Love vs The Rock match one last time before this episode disappears (damn I loved Dude Love) I noticed this time that while hyping the Degeneration-X PPV that "December 7th is shaping up to be a day that will live in infamy." How did I miss that the first time, and more importantly, did this piss anybody off back in 1997? Doesn't bug me now, wouldn't have back then, but I'm guessing someone (like Bob Ryder) would have had some things to say.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

I don't have 24/7 but thanks to various tape collections and Wrestling Sites I do have most WCW & WWF from 1995 - 2003. Where abouts are 24/7 at the moment, so I can kind of join in?

[Guest Smues]

Currently up is Nitro & Raw from (I think) 11/17 which was the night Rick Rude was on both shows. But the following weeks' episode of each will be up tomorrow or Thursday.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Yeah, 11/24 will be up in 5.5 hours - Eastern Time, anyway (though due to some sort of mess up I've had it for a week and never got 11/17). I know 909 gets his content Tuesday evening instead of 12am.

[Guest]

Unfortunately I don't anymore. They changed it.