Let's Talk About...Vince Russo's first stint booking WCW

[EVIL~! alkeiper]

That match was infuriating in particular. Since it took them so long to do the blood from the ceiling spot, Russo laid in the figure-four for over a minute.

[Jingus]

Yeah, go back and watch that match again if you think it was good. It was not. The only worthwhile part was Flair chopping the bejezus out of Russo. Otherwise, compare it to Flair's matches with Bischoff or Vince or his son David, all of which were way better.

[cabbageboy]

The Flair/Russo feud at least had its moments. I could at least buy into it more than Hogan/Bischoff stuff, since we couldn't buy into those guys hating each other when we had seen for years that Bischoff practically idolized Hogan.

 

The single worst angle that Russo ever booked was still New Blood Rising with Nash/Steiner/Goldberg. They had Goldberg going against the booking of the match and pulling away from the powerbomb, the announcers talked about Nash and Steiner improvising a new finish, etc. I mean how can a wrestling promotion even ALLOW such an angle that admits wrestling is scripted?

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS!]

That was appalling. I remembered seeing an advertisement for one of their pay-per-views with a voice over pushing that Goldberg "broke the script." Ugh.

[bob_barron]

Goldberg-Nash-Steiner is one of the funniest matches ever

[King Kamala]

Goldberg Vs Kevin Nash Vs Scott Steiner (New Blood Rising)

 

 

YES! Thanks Daily Motion! I've never actually seen this one before..

[Slayer]

Quite frankly I have a hard time remembering anything about WCW between the FPOD and its demise.

 

Hell, I went to two live Nitros in Minneapolis (Nov '99 and Feb '00) and I can't remember anything about either one other than Hogan's quote about "proper strapation". I have to look up the results to remember what happened.

[Display Name]

I'm Just about to get The Goldberg - Bret Hart Match From Mayhem 1999.

 

The provider of the link said it was a 'Great match'

so it better be good.

 

I've Got the NB Rising 2000 Tape

 

"Our Time is Now"

 

I liked the Kronic Shit a bit.

 

[BruteSquad_BRODY]

Now we need to find links to the WAR GAMES on Nitro and Russo getting speared through the cage and winning the WCW World title

[BUTT]

WarGames:

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/video...mpionship_sport

 

Booker vs Russo

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRCY3M9JxHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37e22q4dp_4

[Jingus]

I'm Just about to get The Goldberg - Bret Hart Match From Mayhem 1999.

 

The provider of the link said it was a 'Great match'

so it better be good.

You're gonna be disappointed, since it's either not Mayhem 99 or not the Goldberg/Hart match. It didn't happen on that show. Hart and Goldberg only had three televised singles matches. Two on Nitro were complete crap, and the third (Starrcade 99) was the match where Bill superkicked Bret into permanent brain injury and forced retirement.

 

Now we need to find links to the WAR GAMES on Nitro and Russo getting speared through the cage and winning the WCW World title

I hated that Russo put the belt on himself, but I loved that he was so fucking stupid that he willingly allowed goddamned Goldberg to spear him through a cage. Think he still wonders why he got a massive concussion?

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

I hated that Russo put the belt on himself, but I loved that he was so fucking stupid that he willingly allowed goddamned Goldberg to spear him through a cage. Think he still wonders why he got a massive concussion?

It might explain his complete inability to fully admit his mistakes.

[BUTT]

He had that before ever getting concussed.

[RepoMan]

I got talked into paying to get Great American Bash 2000 because my brother convinced me that "the event that will change sports entertainment forever" was Shane McMahon jumping to WCW. I still pissed that I never bothered to send away for the free Hogan inflatable raft you could get if you sent in your cable bill.

[Gert T]

I don't know what was worse, Russo being in the figur four for over a minute, or completely no-selling it afterwards.

 

 

[cabbageboy]

Repo, oddly enough I too was kinda looking forward to GAB 2000 due to Bischoff's promise of a surprise. Thing is, I looked forward to it for all the wrong reasons, as in I wanted to see how horribly disappointing the actual revelation would be. There are 2 Holy Trinities of Russo Crap in WCW: The first was Halloween Havoc/Mayhem/Starrcade 1999 and then he was removed. The 2nd was GAB/BATB/NBR 2000.

 

In all honesty that Starrcade 99 show might be the worst PPV ever. Even worse than atrocities like GAB and BATB 99 (and those should be banned by the Geneva convention). But at least there might be SOMETHING on those PPVs that might approach feasible pro wrestling, stuff like DDP/Bigelow vs. Benoit/Saturn. But there is literally nothing redeeming on Starrcade 99. The entire show sucks, there are no good matches on it, and the top matches were the goofy Nash/Sid powerbomb match and the Bret/Goldberg fiasco.

 

What does it say about a PPV main event when the world champion had a career ending injury during the match, the challenger later ripped his arm to shreds by punching a limo, it had a finish that was a ripoff of the Montreal Screwjob, and it set up yet another lame variation of the NWO?

[Hunter's Torn Quad]

What does it say about a PPV main event when the world champion had a career ending injury during the match, the challenger later ripped his arm to shreds by punching a limo, it had a finish that was a ripoff of the Montreal Screwjob, and it set up yet another lame variation of the NWO?

It says that Vince Russo booked it.

[King Kamala]

In all honesty that Starrcade 99 show might be the worst PPV ever. Even worse than atrocities like GAB and BATB 99 (and those should be banned by the Geneva convention). But at least there might be SOMETHING on those PPVs that might approach feasible pro wrestling, stuff like DDP/Bigelow vs. Benoit/Saturn. But there is literally nothing redeeming on Starrcade 99. The entire show sucks, there are no good matches on it, and the top matches were the goofy Nash/Sid powerbomb match and the Bret/Goldberg fiasco.

 

I haven't seen it since it happened but I vaguely remember liking the Chris Benoit/Jeff Jarrett ladder match. Then again, like with The Royal Rumble, I haven't seen a ladder match that I haven't at least kind of liked. But yeah Starrcade '99 was a terrible show.

 

Again, something that hasn't been brought up enough IMO in this thread is how Russo killed the cruiserweight division during his first stint there. Even in the most dire times before, you could usually count on a good cruiserweight match. Not with Russo. It only semi-recovered during Chavo's run with the belt after Russo left and by then WCW was almost dead anyways.

[cabbageboy]

Wow, I had totally forgotten that Benoit/Jarrett match. I recall the fiasco with Jarrett's concussion that led to Souled Out being screwed up since he and Benoit were scheduled for a 2 out of 3 series.

 

If that match was in fact decent that might eliminate Starrcade 99 as worst PPV ever. It's hard to truly find the worst major promotion PPV (not stuff like Heroes of Wrestling). Fall Brawl 98 is one of the worst pieces of shit I've ever seen but even it had a pretty decent Raven/Saturn match.

[King Kamala]

It's got to be King of The Ring '95. When the MOTN is "Spark Plugg" Bob Holly Vs The Roadie, you know it's a pretty terrible show.

[Gert T]

Road Wild '98 has to receive some votes from me too.

 

Jay Leno.

Goldberg-nWo battle royal

 

And I can't remember for sure but since it happened about 10 times in the span of 6 months, an announced Steiner v. Steiner match that never happened.

 

 

[cabbageboy]

I actually have never seen KOTR 95 in its entirety, though I did have the chance to rent it some years ago and passed it up. I kinda regret that now, haha. Thing is, did KOTR 95 really have a long term negative impact of the WWF? It made the Summer of 1995 suck ass with Mabel getting such a push, but after SS 95 he just jobbed and that was it.

 

I think that is what always separated the WWF from WCW. The WWF would sometimes put the wrong guys in the main spots, but they would eventually correct it. Like with Diesel in 1995, there wasn't much actively awful about his title run but he just wasn't over enough for a year long run.

 

The hell with it, I still might say Fall Brawl 98 even with the solid Raven/Saturn match. Everything else was just heinous on all possible levels and isn't even as notably horrible as the 1999-2000 WCW output. I had some friends over and both of them fell asleep on the show. My brother fell asleep on the show. My dad fell asleep at various points. My mom left the room and took a nap. I was the only one who made it through the entire PPV without dozing off.

[Jingus]

Road Wild 98 wasn't all bad. They had a couple of decent lucha matches, and I'd argue that the Leno match wasn't even as bad as the celebrity match from the previous ppv (the truly terrible Malone/Rodman debacle). KOTR 95 was bad, but aside from the dumb decisions in booking the tournament I've never understood the Worst Show Ever hatred. But if you want to talk about an absolutely worthless fucking dogshit show, look no further than Bash at the Beach 99. Every single match sucked in some way. Some just sucked by being boring, some sucked in that "I can't believe they expected people to pay to watch THESE two guys wrestle" manner, and some were so disgraceful in actively insulting your intelligence that it makes me hate WCW all over again just thinking about it.

[cabbageboy]

The only thing that might have saved BATB 99 from worst PPV ever is maybe the Triad vs. Benoit/Saturn for the tag titles. That said, my friend Ian (who fell asleep during Fall Brawl 98) flat out left during the junk yard match.

 

Some would likely say GAB 91 is the worst PPV ever but I have only seen individual matches from it over the years and not the full show. I do confess to having a morbid desire to see it though.

[Gert T]

I do too, I would like to see Capture the Flag played at 20 feet in the air!

 

 

 

[Aero]

I watched Road Wild 98 and Fall Brawl 98 not too long ago. While both are pretty bad, Fall Brawl has the edge if only because of its atrocious main event that made no sense and featured the dumb Warrior antics. Not only that, but the finish to the match is one of the worst looking finishes I've ever seen to a big match in regards to how badly it's botched. And of course, holding off Rick vs. Scott for MONTHS was already bad enough, so for the second straight month, they deprive the audience of the match by faking Buff's injury and take 10 minutes to bring him to the back on a stretcher, only for... GASP, he was FAKING! No one in the crowd bought it, of course.

 

[UseTheSledgehammerUh]

GAB 91 is worse than KOTR 95, without a doubt. Both shows are awful. KOTR is just a bad show. GAB is embarassing to watch featuring talent and matches that make TNA seem like 2000 WWE.

[cabbageboy]

I don't know about that...I mean KOTR 95 is ill conceived just for the hell of it and not due to some fiasco backstage. Hell they had Savio Vega wrestling like 3 or 4 times on a PPV with MABEL winning a tourney to be #1 contender. At least Luger vs. Windham sounds like a somewhat feasible match given the chaos of the situation.

[claydude14]

Was Savio a bad worker? I mean, I was a mark at the time and all, but I always really enjoyed his work as both face and heel.

[Jingus]

No, he was a perfectly competent wrestler. But he was also an undercard nobody who was being pushed way past his popularity level. Same thing with Mabel. I'm all for elevating new talent, but they completely bungled the execution on that night. Roadie and Sparky Plugg are in the tournament, but Jarrett and Ramon aren't? Shawn Michaels, Yokozuna, and Undertaker get eliminated in the first round? It especially didn't help that the show was in Philadelphia and had a ringside section full of ECW fans. Hat Guy was NOT impressed by King Mabel, and ten thousand more people loudly agreed with him.

 

And the rest of the show besides the tournament sucked too. Bret Hart couldn't save the show with his match, as per usual for 1995 he was stuck in a shitty midcard matchup, this time with Lawler and a "Kiss My Foot" stipulation. And finally the show had a crappy main event, a tag team match with Diesel and Bigelow vs. Sid and Tatanka which wasn't even good on paper, much less in practice. There also weren't any title matches on the show at all, no titles defended whatsoever. I'm not bothering to check, but that might be the very first time that had ever happened on a pay-per-view. It was definitely the first PPV in over a year and a half where the World title wasn't defended.

 

 

GAB 91 wasn't completely worthless. The Robert Gibson vs. Richard Morton match was okay. Underwhelming, since for a "turned heel on his partner after a decade of teaming" grudge match you'd think they would do something more special than a standard Work The Leg match, but it was still tolerable wrestling. And while neither of them was a blowaway encounter and the arena rang with "WE WANT FLAIR" chants, both Sting/Koloff and Windham/Luger were at least watchable.

 

 

Weren't there a couple of really, really bad ECW ppvs? I recall November 2 Remember 98 being a piece of crap, but it's been a while since I've watched most of those shows so the details don't exactly spring to mind.