Who needs a turn?

[IronManLUNG 0]

Hollywood Hogan, brother

Hogan was already being booed in WCW at that point anyway by some people, and his popularity was waning. PLUS he was barely on TV leading up to when he turned.

I meant that he should come back as a heel. Or a face, really.

[DarKnight 0]

See what I mean? Hogan turned heel in 96, and was still a star. If WWE thinks Cena is such a big star, why are they so afraid to turn him heel? Ironically, Hogan turning heel in 96, may have led the gateway to the wrestling boom of the late 90's.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

See what I mean? Hogan turned heel in 96, and was still a star. If WWE thinks Cena is such a big star, why are they so afraid to turn him heel? Ironically, Hogan turning heel in 96, may have led the gateway to the wrestling boom of the late 90's.

 

There is less money in turning Cena heel at this point. It will happen some day, though.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Cena won't sell the gobs of merch that he does as a heel. The fans of today WILL stop buying his stuff if that happens, it isn't the attitude era fans anymore.

 

Cena won't work as well in the ring as a heel because he does such a damn good job of the selling a beating/making a desperation comeback formula.

 

Cena won't get nearly the heat because the ones who cheer will just stop reacting altogether and the ones who hate him now will have gotten what they wanted and will cheer him for a little while but then miss the goody-two-shoes Cena that was more fun to boo.

 

Wait until Cena's stock has dropped and the fans truly get tired of him(no, not IWC fans), like was the case with Hogan, then turn him heel.

[DarKnight 0]

Well, yeah, Cena will turn heel someday, but why not just get it over with? Judging from what he's done this year so far, his super push looks like its over. Seriously, I think he's only won 1 major match. That was at One Night Stand against JBL, in a hilariously bad finish. Then he actually JOBS to JBL. I'm sorry, but you can't give a guy a super push when he jobs to JBL. Not to mention, he also jobbed in the Wrestlemania title match too. I think WWE really killed off the Rumble match this year, by having a guy win who was unanounced and at #30, then loses at Wrestlemania.

 

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I think WWE really killed off the Rumble match this year, by having a guy win who was unanounced and at #30, then loses at Wrestlemania.

 

Not just that. He lost his title shot at No Way Out, and had to backdoor his way back into the Mania match, much like Rey Mysterio did in 2006. Then yes he took the pin at Mania.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

Well, yeah, Cena will turn heel someday, but why not just get it over with?

 

Because the issue isn't whether or not they should get a Cena heel turn over with, it's whether or not it would be a good business decision at this point in time, which it would not be.

[Hawk 34 0]

Before Vince's departure from the screen, I was pushing for Khali to become Tajiri to Vince's Regal. They had tremendous chemistry on that one particular segment during the money giveaway.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Yeah. I've been kinda joking around about Khali, but honestly, him yelling at the phone was legitimately funny and got a real positive reaction from the crowd. Reactions he doesn't get at the moment. I don't know neccessarily how much money there is a Khali as a comedy act, but I don't see enough in Khali the 70s/80s foreign monster heel either and it's easier to see which is getting the better reactions.

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't know who Cena would even feud with if he turned heel that he can't already face anyway. That's kinda the point of turning heel, to go after someone that promoters won't put you against. But recent booking seems to point the way of a heel turn if you think about it. When Cena had the belt, why would he turn heel? He had it all. A heel turn has to grow out of frustration with the way things are going. Jericho felt angered and frustrated that his big comeback hadn't quite gone the way he planned, he saw Michaels being cheered for what he felt were bogus reasons, so he turned.

 

If they did an angle where Cena got frustrated with his losses this year and got his edge back by turning heel, it could work and he would end up more popular than ever.

[DarKnight 0]

Thats what I mean. If a guy really is a star, he would have popularity anyway. They've already done a bunch of Cena vs. another good guy match a bunch of times, and he gets booed anyway. If he was heel, things would be the same, but actually make sense. Thats one reason why picking him to face RVD at One Night Stand was a bad idea. Because RVD needed to just face a heel to win the title, yet even though Cena would get booed, WWE obviously wasn't going to turn him heel. So then, you end up with a mess. WWE wanted Cena to be the guy he faced, yet they still weren't going to job him to anybody clean, but RVD needed a good clean win over him to get over. Sure, seeing Cena get booed at that show was funny, but it was bad for business, because you had the guy that WWE has been shoving down people's throats as being their #1 face, get completely booed. Its embarrassing. And Cena I think will always be remembered for that. Being a guy that they tried to make the next Hogan or Austin, yet gets booed by everybody.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

Cena hardly gets booed by everybody.

[DarKnight 0]

Well, it has calmed down quite a bit the past 2 years, but I think people just got tired of doing it, since they knew it wouldn't do any good. But 2005? He was pretty much booed in every match he had after he got drafted to Raw.

[SamoaRowe 0]

If Cena turned heel, all the men and guys who are booing him now would suddenly be cheering for his every move. His act was a hit with the guys back in the day, go back and watch Cena vs. Lesnar from Backlash 2003 and notice the men in the audience cheering on Cena.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Exactly. It also might have something to do with the fact that he is one hell of a lot better than he was in 2005.

 

And, DK, what part of "it makes horrible business sense" doesn't resonate with you. Business is really the most important thing when you're, y'know, running a business.

[Noah Fentz 0]

Cena is nowhere near as over as most of you think. Most crowds are split or lean toward dislike of Cena. In fact, the WWE has been dubbing audio for years, and a lot of Cena cheers are done in the production truck.

 

Turning Cena heel is, in fact, a great idea. He receives heat as a face now! Merchandising is not limited to faces, heels sell merchandise, too.

[Wally Balls 0]

I can't believe some of you are actually suggesting that turning Cena would be a good idea. He's the top face in the company and certainly the most over. They've built up Cena as a hero for little kids, so in a sense, he's like Bret Hart was. If the time comes where another "Austin" comes and is able to build up the amount of heat that Austin and Bret had, then yes I would say it would be a good idea, but until then, keep Cena face. He's the only reason why females have become fans, so turning him heel would lose a HUGE fanbase. Just because females can't recite every one of Ric Flair's matches doesn't make them any less of fans than you and I and certainly not to the WWE.

 

And on the subject of heels moving merchandise, they sell a few things here and there, but the majority of the merchansider consumers are little kids and their parents. When you look at the shows, there are loads of Cena, HBK, HHH, Mysterio merch. Not exactly that much for Edge, JBL and the like. Randy Orton is probably the heel that sells the most merch, but no where even close to the faces. So from a business perspective, turning Cena would be horrible.

 

Cena is the top face on Raw even though Punk is the champ (I dont think CM Punk is over enough to be champ), and with Jericho, Orton, Kane, JBL and others, the Raw scene can't afford to give up any faces, espcially not one the magnitude of John Cena. At this point, arguing over Cena's overness is pointless, because I was under the imperssion that theres no arguement.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Cena is nowhere near as over as most of you think. Most crowds are split or lean toward dislike of Cena. In fact, the WWE has been dubbing audio for years, and a lot of Cena cheers are done in the production truck.

 

You realise Raw is live, right? Raw, the show he's been on for some 3 years, right?

 

It's weird how the only people who seem to think Cena turning heel is a viable option are the people who don't enjoy his face act as a way of entertainment. Not business. Entertainment. The arguement always seems to come down to "He should turn heel, because I think he's corny... and obviously everyone else agrees because some only kids and women cheer him!" Try and spin it as they might, in the end it comes down to personal dislike of what he's doing as opposed to whether it's a good idea or not. Listen, I cringe as much as the next person at most of his promos and plenty of what he does in the ring. But I can see turning him heel right now isn't the best option.

[Noah Fentz 0]

You realise Raw is live, right? Raw, the show he's been on for some 3 years, right?

 

Crowd sounds have been pumped into arenas for years.

 

Goldberg chants were done this way when he wasn't getting over, as well as, Hulk Hogan and Cena. In some areas of the country Cena IS over, but in others, if you watch the crowd, they aren't into him as much as the sounds of the crowd imply.

 

As far as kids, they'll find a new hero, they always do. I'm not suggesting turning Cena on the next Raw. But, it's high time for a change in direction for him. A heel turn now can easily evolve in getting him completely over when he faces again.

[hyperchord24 0]

As far as kids, they'll find a new hero, they always do. I'm not suggesting turning Cena on the next Raw. But, it's high time for a change in direction for him. A heel turn now can easily evolve in getting him completely over when he faces again.

Why stop the gravy train now? Keeping him face makes the company more money.

[Noah Fentz 0]

I see so much more potential in Batista. I think this whole Cena vs. Batista angle is to determine who will face and who will heel in the coming months.

[DarKnight 0]

Cena is nowhere near as over as most of you think. Most crowds are split or lean toward dislike of Cena. In fact, the WWE has been dubbing audio for years, and a lot of Cena cheers are done in the production truck.

 

Turning Cena heel is, in fact, a great idea. He receives heat as a face now! Merchandising is not limited to faces, heels sell merchandise, too.

 

This man speaks the truth! I really find it embarrassing that some of the guys WWE pushes hard have only teenage girls in their fanbase. I mean, isn't wrestling supposed to kind of appeal to... you know, guys? And it makes the company look lame that they push guys like that. Kids don't only like good guys either, when I was a kid I liked plenty of heels, like the Rock when he was heel, Edge and Christian, Austin and Angle, the NWO, etc. Yes, I don't think turning Cena heel RIGHT NOW would be a good move at all. It wouldn't make any sense. I'm saying that WWE needs to plan ahead on when to do it though.

[bob_barron 0]

Who cares who they appeal to? Teenage girls and kids will buy WWE products, which in turn will make the company money

[DarKnight 0]

Who cares who they appeal to? Teenage girls and kids will buy WWE products, which in turn will make the company money

 

Because if you look at the great business they did during the Attitude era, they pushed a lot of guys who were over with everybody. Sure, Austin may not be the fan favorite to teenage girls, but I think they liked him pretty well. The Rock I think appealed to everyone: guys, girls, kids, and elders, so he was great for business and crossover appeal. Hell, my grandma loved Too Cool and Rikishi dancing! I don't think there is anyone on the roster that is pushed hard right now that is THAT good for business. I don't know why people say RVD wasn't good for business, besides the obvious weed thing. The dude was popular with pretty much everyone due to his flashy moves and ring attire, and I think he was underrated on the mic. If CM Punk ends up being booked right, he could end up appealing to everyone.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

The Attitude Era was an anomaly, the exception not the rule. Most times booking traditional good face/bad heel(ie: kids entertainment) is better for business.

 

They tried to keep booking Attitude-Era shades of gray even after they started to drop big-time in ratings. They making more money than ever booking this traditional PG WWE.

 

And, do you people not understand that Cena is over not just because of his crowd reactions. His segments are ALWAYS the highest rated on RAW or Smackdown, his merch is way beyond anyone else's, and the general casual wrestling public think of him as the face of WWE.

[Brett Favre 0]

Cena is the most over wrestler in the company. You can't dub people getting up and raising their hands.

[DarKnight 0]

Let's just say what if Cena quit the company tomorrow? Would anybody REALLY miss him? I think they're audience would just move on without him. When Austin and the Rock weren't in the company anymore, you could tell the fans were hit by it, and they miss those guys (though I haven't missed Austin since his horrible 2002 days). And even if Cena does sell a bunch of stuff, WWE has basically made it impossible for him not to, since he's been forced fed to everybody.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Let's just say what if Cena quit the company tomorrow? Would anybody REALLY miss him?

 

*slaps forehead*

[Noah Fentz 0]

I feel there's a few points that have to be made here...

 

1) Faces do sell the most merchandise, true, but eventually, the sales taper off into mediocrity. At this point, there's two choices that can be made. You can create new merchandise for the face, or turn them heel.

 

New merchandise = endless cycle of new merchandise. Normally each product after the first sells less than their predecessors overall, because fans already have a Cena (or whoever) shirt. So, eventually, sales bottom out.

 

Heel turn = New merchandise, new target demo of fanbase to merchandize to...good for sales. Eventual return to face means a BOOM of new merchandizing AGAIN.

 

It's cyclic, and the marketing management exploit this trend to its fullest potential.

 

2) Review Cena's return after surgery. The crowd booed the hell out of him. Watch closely next time Cena comes out to the ring. There are just as many fans heckling as there are cheering. I can promise you the audio of RAW is manipulated...FACT.

 

Cena Sucks Video (Best I could find, but definitive.)

 

 

3) Heels or Faces...both draw ratings. Workers can be over, regardless of which they are. Cena will still be as over as he is right now as a heel, possibly moreso.

 

4) My personal opinion...Cena is the WWE's most shoved-down-your-throat personality because of the "military tribute" aspect of his character, but even that will not be enough to justify their current use of him soon.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Cena gets a huge reaction and while it's been some time since we've had someone try to explain it away as not really being as big as it is, I'm not surprised that someone is, I assume, genuinely trying to argue otherwise. Cena gets major pops on TV, at the arenas, his merchandise sales are huge, and he draws ratings. You don't need to mess with that, and I don't think you can or should either.

 

The reason I say that is that Cena gets those reactions and numbers by being the heroic babyface that people either really love or really hate. People love Cena because of who and what he is and people hate him because of who and what he is. If you take away the Cena that his fans love, then they're going to stop caring about him because they're the type of fan (young, and/or impressionable) who won't stick around to see him get beaten up or whatever. They're simply going to stay home, maybe watch him on TV to yell at, and stop asking mom/dad/care giver to buy his merchandise for them, take them to see him live or buy PPV's he's part of. Conversely, take away the Cena that his haters hate, and make their hatred of him the 'correct' reaction, and you take away their reason to care about him as well. Those people hate Cena no matter what, but I guarantee that a lot of what drives that hate is that they're 'supposed' to like him, and they're determined not to. Take that away, and make their reaction the one Cena is going to want them to have, and they'll not only stop caring about him enough to not hate him, but they'll also stop caring enough to not react when he shows up. They're also going to keep not buying his merchandise.

 

I think Cena is someone who is what he is, a babyface that people either want to love or want to hate, and I don't think he can be anything else. I think the dynamic is just that rare, and that changing it would be a mistake.