Who needs a turn?

[Noah Fentz 0]

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Joey Styles...

 

Listen to his comment at 1:23 of this Video.

 

And, yes, I know it's almost a year old, but how do you explain his return at Royal Rumble and return to Raw? Both are MUCH more recent!

 

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

You didn't get my point, did you?

 

And that's also a crowd not representative of the WWE fan base.

[Noah Fentz 0]

I totally got your point about not messing with his current status because he's in a place that is perfect for both the fans that love him and the fans that hate him.

 

But I disagree with your opening paragraph...

 

Cena gets major pops on TV, at the arenas, his merchandise sales are huge, and he draws ratings.

 

Seeing as this is not necessarily the truth, he's NOT in a perfect place. McMahon is merely leading the sheep into believing he's hugely popular with the fans-at-large, and it is simply not true.

 

And that's also a crowd not representative of the WWE fan base.

 

Styles was describing the WWE crowd's reaction to Cena.

[DarKnight 0]

3) Heels or Faces...both draw ratings. Workers can be over, regardless of which they are. Cena will still be as over as he is right now as a heel, possibly moreso.

 

4) My personal opinion...Cena is the WWE's most shoved-down-your-throat personality because of the "military tribute" aspect of his character, but even that will not be enough to justify their current use of him soon.

 

Exactly. Thats why its stupid for WWE to be worried about turning Cena heel because their afraid merchandise sales will be down. Who honestly gives a flying fuck? Cena hasn't increased ratings at all. Since 2002, Raw has consistently had the same ratings in the 3's and only went to 4's in 2006 because WWE went back to USA the year before, and there was also the ECW angle. Sure, I know Cena was a part of it, but I think One Night Stand that year would have done a good buyrate anyway. And Cena isn't even in the same ballpark when it comes to Austin or Rock level of popularity. Even if Cena has the highest selling merchandise currently, it isn't shit compared to Austin or Rock or NWO.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

And Cena isn't even in the same ballpark when it comes to Austin or Rock level of popularity. Even if Cena has the highest selling merchandise currently, it isn't shit compared to Austin or Rock or NWO.

Which means absolutely nothing at all, because Austin and Rock were once-in-a-lifetime hits and virtually nobody will match their popularity or merchandise sales.

[Noah Fentz 0]

And Cena isn't even in the same ballpark when it comes to Austin or Rock level of popularity. Even if Cena has the highest selling merchandise currently, it isn't shit compared to Austin or Rock or NWO.

Which means absolutely nothing at all, because Austin and Rock were once-in-a-lifetime hits and virtually nobody will match their popularity or merchandise sales.

 

I have to totally disagree there...

 

Hulk Hogan

Ric Flair

Randy Savage

Bret Hart

DX

NWO

The Rock

Austin

 

More to come, I assure you. Cena is NOT that guy right now, and probably never.

 

Guys (or marketing gimmicks) rise like that rise about once every 3 years, as history shows. It's Batista's turn, IMO.

 

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

And Cena isn't even in the same ballpark when it comes to Austin or Rock level of popularity. Even if Cena has the highest selling merchandise currently, it isn't shit compared to Austin or Rock or NWO.

Which means absolutely nothing at all, because Austin and Rock were once-in-a-lifetime hits and virtually nobody will match their popularity or merchandise sales.

 

I have to totally disagree there...

 

Hulk Hogan

Ric Flair

Randy Savage

Bret Hart

DX

NWO

The Rock

Austin

 

More to come, I assure you. Cena is NOT that guy right now, and probably never.

 

Guys (or marketing gimmicks) rise like that rise about once every 3 years, as history shows. It's Batista's turn, IMO.

Either you're total gimmick, or you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

 

Austin, Rock and Hogan are on a plane all to themselves. I'm a big fan of almost everyone you mention, but none of them are close to those three. Strong numbers on their own? Yes. But reaching the levels of Austin, Rock and Hogan? Not even close, and not for as long.

[IronManLUNG 0]

Hulk Hogan owns the top tier by himself IMO.

[Noah Fentz 0]

You place those three on a much higher plane of success than the others, and I completely agree with you.

 

I wasn't referring to the height of their popularity to the wrestling world, I was referring to their importance to the company.

[BUTT 0]

Aren't you a wrestling promoter? And you don't even realize that Cena is over? Does your promotion make money?

[Noah Fentz 0]

Cena is nowhere near as over as the WWE would like him to be. This is a case of shoving a worker down the fans' throats.

 

The company could do what it's doing with or without Cena. He's simply not that big of a draw.

 

When was the last time you heard someone say, "I just HAVE to get tickets for the upcoming house show...CENA will be there!"

 

My guess is never.

 

Note: At this point, I've stated my opinion, so there's no point of continuing. I hope I have given all of you something to think about. When a discussion turns into nothing more than a back and forth debate, it loses my interest. Feel free to comment, and hopefully, add a new perspective or insight to it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Aren't you a wrestling promoter? And you don't even realize that Cena is over? Does your promotion make money?

I should have checked his posting history before wasting time with him.

[DarKnight 0]

Well if you want my opinion, I really think no wrestler draws on his own. I too have never seen anybody say that they have to go to a show just to see 1 guy. It depends if the card is good and sounds interesting. This is a reason why WCW ran out of business, their cards for house shows and PPV's sounded terrible, so nobody went.

[Noah Fentz 0]

I should have checked his posting history before wasting time with him.

 

I really thought we were onto a good conversation. I edited my original post to maintain some composure. But I would like to make an observation here.

 

I may have come off wrong in my original posts, and for that I admit I was wrong. Once it started going in the direction of flaming me, I got impatient and irritated.

 

I have shared with you my insight into the business I know and love. If you have nothing good to say, when you see me post, just do this...

 

Don't get up. Just sit on your bedroom floor with your little WWE action figures and your little WWE ring. Slip on your John Cena foam fingers and rap to your little hearts content, because the adults are talking. Nobody likes kids interrupting when the adults are talking.

 

 

And, if you're good, we'll get some ice cream later

[bob_barron 0]

Noah Fentz, but you're incredible stupid.

 

And many WWE House shows attract kids because they want to see John Cena.

[Broward83 0]

Well if you want my opinion, I really think no wrestler draws on his own. I too have never seen anybody say that they have to go to a show just to see 1 guy. It depends if the card is good and sounds interesting. This is a reason why WCW ran out of business, their cards for house shows and PPV's sounded terrible, so nobody went.

 

Not to be an ass, but I ordered a TNA ppv once on the sole reason of Liger being on the card. I could give a fuck about the rest of the card, Liger being on it made it a buy.

 

*shrug*

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Cena is nowhere near as over as the WWE would like him to be. This is a case of shoving a worker down the fans' throats.

 

The company could do what it's doing with or without Cena. He's simply not that big of a draw.

 

When was the last time you heard someone say, "I just HAVE to get tickets for the upcoming house show...CENA will be there!"

 

My guess is never.

 

Note: At this point, I've stated my opinion, so there's no point of continuing. I hope I have given all of you something to think about. When a discussion turns into nothing more than a back and forth debate, it loses my interest. Feel free to comment, and hopefully, add a new perspective or insight to it

 

You, sir, are a fucking moron.

 

And, FWIW, the WWE's new rebranded image, which Cena is the face of, is way more marketable to a broader cross section of potential viewers/buyers than it was in the late nineties, and thats part of the reason why WWE is making more profit now than they ever did during your precious Attitude Era.

 

But you probably didn't realize that because you clueless enough not to believe that anybody would go to a WWE show just for John Cena.

 

What a joke.

[BUTT 0]

I never got an answer about Noah's indy fed. I really wanted to know about his experiences in THA BIZ.

[TheFranchise 0]

I should have checked his posting history before wasting time with him.

 

I really thought we were onto a good conversation. I edited my original post to maintain some composure. But I would like to make an observation here.

 

I may have come off wrong in my original posts, and for that I admit I was wrong. Once it started going in the direction of flaming me, I got impatient and irritated.

 

I have shared with you my insight into the business I know and love. If you have nothing good to say, when you see me post, just do this...

 

Don't get up. Just sit on your bedroom floor with your little WWE action figures and your little WWE ring. Slip on your John Cena foam fingers and rap to your little hearts content, because the adults are talking. Nobody likes kids interrupting when the adults are talking.

 

 

And, if you're good, we'll get some ice cream later

Put this man in the Gulag.

 

With....

 

 

Leena.

 

I smell a good conversation.

[DarKnight 0]

Wow, this thread is crazy now.

 

Not to be an ass, but I ordered a TNA ppv once on the sole reason of Liger being on the card. I could give a fuck about the rest of the card, Liger being on it made it a buy.

 

*shrug*

 

You really just cared about Liger only? No one else? Not even Somoa Joe or AJ Styles? And I might know what PPV your talking about. Was it Bound For Glory 2005, since that show had a Liger/Joe match on it? I couldn't think of any other TNA PPV that Liger was on, but I'm pretty sure he was on another one, since he was probably in the World X Cup.

[SamoaRowe 0]

I seem to remember the Raw ratings took a hit after Cena's injury (though a lot of the smark blame for that seemed to go to new WWE Champion, Randy Orton). And I recall when Cena was off filming that movie in the spring, crowds were actually upset about Cena not being there, a lot of live notes from news sites made mention of it.

 

You know, it seems to me that a certain portion of the IWC made up their minds in 2005 that Cena was terrible and would always be terrible and then have spent the three years since covering their ears and eyes, trying to ignore all the in-ring accomplishments he has had since then.

[Noah Fentz 0]

Wow, this thread is crazy now.

 

Actually, it's gone totally off-topic, now, because people insist on name calling and insulting.

 

You, sir, are a fucking moron.

 

Isn't that comment Gulag material, or do the rules only cover newcomers.

 

Put this man in the Gulag.

 

You must be joking.

 

Back ON TOPIC...

 

Cena will turn heel, IMO, soon...very soon. Expect to see Batista carry the torch for a while. With the current roster the way it is (listed below), I also expect to see someone big return to Raw. I just don't see enough talent to carry the flagship brand for very long.

 

Batista

Beth Phoenix

Candice

Charlie Haas

Chris Jericho

Chuck Palumbo

CM Punk

Cody Rhodes

Deuce

Hacksaw Jim Duggan

Hardcore Holly

Jamie Noble

JBL

Jerry Lawler

Jillian

John Cena

JTG

Kane

Katie Lea Burchill

Kelly Kelly

Kofi Kingston

Lance Cade

Layla

Lilian Garcia

Matt Striker

Melina

Michael Cole

Mickie James

Mike Adamle

Mr. McMahon

Paul Burchill

Paul London

Randy Orton

Rey Mysterio

Robbie McAllister

Ron Simmons

Rory McAllister

Santino Marella

Shad

Shawn Michaels

Snitsky

Ted DiBiase

Val Venis

William Regal

 

 

[bob_barron 0]

Thank you for going to WWE.com and listing the RAW roster!

 

That does not help your argument in the slightest!

 

As top face on RAW, Cena sells an insane amount of merchandise, his matches always have insane heat, he's the main draw on house shows and he's the face of the company. He's perfect as top face on RAW and turning him heel would be a disaster.

 

I agree that there are certain peoiple who just decided they hated Cena and stick their fingers in their ears when it's proven he's a draw

[NyqZoo 0]

Anyways, I think Edge should turn face. Argue with me.

 

If you think SD has too many faces already you could have Vicky trade him to raw for some heel, maybe Orton when he gets back.

[Noah Fentz 0]

Thank you for going to WWE.com and listing the RAW roster!

 

That does not help your argument in the slightest!

 

As top face on RAW, Cena sells an insane amount of merchandise, his matches always have insane heat, he's the main draw on house shows and he's the face of the company. He's perfect as top face on RAW and turning him heel would be a disaster.

 

I agree that there are certain peoiple who just decided they hated Cena and stick their fingers in their ears when it's proven he's a draw

 

What is it with you people?!?!

 

Do you not read before you post?!?

 

With the current roster the way it is (listed below), I also expect to see someone big return to Raw.

 

I listed the roster to show a lack of drawing/ratings power. It had nothing to do with Cena.

 

Pay attention.

[bob_barron 0]

What is it with you people?!?!

 

Do you not read before you post?!?

 

With the current roster the way it is (listed below), I also expect to see someone big return to Raw.

 

I listed the roster to show a lack of drawing/ratings power. It had nothing to do with Cena.

 

Pay attention.

 

No, it still makes you wrong. And you've also never really defended the Cena argument either, since it was basically: You guys, they pipe the crowd noise. I swear. And look at this clip from ECW One Night Stand.

 

RAW has Batista, Cena, Kane, Jericho, JBL, HBK, Punk and (probably) Rey Mysterio and Orton, when he comes back. Plus, they're trying to get over new stars as well. They're fine.

 

If anyone is going heel it's Big Dave

[Noah Fentz 0]

See, I have issue with "argument", and, unless I'm mistaken, this is an opinion.

 

The most you, or anyone, can do is disagree. Calling me an F'N moron or trying to continually make me DEFEND myself takes all the enjoyment out of discussing wrestling.

 

 

[bob_barron 0]

Tough shit. This is a message board. You can have your opinion, and I can have my opinion that you're stupid. Everyone else on the board can share the same opinion and refute everything you say.

 

Also, I was at the Rumble, and the pop for Cena's music and him coming out was probably the loudest of the night, for someone only popular because McMahon says so.

[naiwf 0]

It amazes me that people who consider themselves "smarks" don't understand that Cena turning heel would be a titanic error on the WWE's part. Even though it might make THEM a little bit happier to see the guy wrestle, it would completely kill the half of their fanbase that is rabid for the guy. The last time I checked, the money that women and kids spend is worth exactly the same as the money that men spend. The whole expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face" is appropriate here.

 

If Cena turns heel, the women and kid fans go away, and the guys who have been shitting on him forever will start to cheer him because now they'll like his whole schtick again. Then you'll have a heel who gets cheered with less fans than he had before, less merch sales than he generated before and a less effective formula because he'll be paired up against babyfaces who aren't nearly as over as he is.

[Broward83 0]

Wow, this thread is crazy now.

 

Not to be an ass, but I ordered a TNA ppv once on the sole reason of Liger being on the card. I could give a fuck about the rest of the card, Liger being on it made it a buy.

 

*shrug*

 

You really just cared about Liger only? No one else? Not even Somoa Joe or AJ Styles? And I might know what PPV your talking about. Was it Bound For Glory 2005, since that show had a Liger/Joe match on it? I couldn't think of any other TNA PPV that Liger was one, but I'm pretty sure he was on another one, since he was probably in the World X Cup.

 

Honestly? Yeah. I ordered it because of Liger being on the card and when he promptly got bitched around by Joe I left the room the PPV was showing in and played my 360.