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chrislatimer

they would never of worked as a heel/face

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Al Snow as a heel in late '99. He tried, but it just didn't work.

 

Definatley agree. I also agree that even with expert booking, there are some people that should never be heel. Snow is one of them. You can't turn the "goofy but likeable" babyface into a heel because the fans just won't take it seriously. They tried turning Eugene heel last year and it bombed miserably.

 

Delirious could be included in this category.

 

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Orton is an odd case in that I think as a wrestler he would be much better served being a face, where he wouldn't have to dictate the match with his tedious headlock offense. The problem with that is that Orton the character is such an unlikable douche that it's tough to get behind him.

 

I just watched Survivor Series 2005 the other day and you can't tell me he wasn't over. The babyface character wasn't working out well and it wasn't his strong suit, but people were behind him well enough then.

 

Jeff as a heel is the one that instantly comes to mind. At the moment he's just basically himself more than playing face. Would he work going against type and playing a character? I don't know.

 

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Steamboat was never given a chance to be a heel, but I must say all the pieces was there for an awesome heel turn.

 

I believe Steamboat wanted to go heel at one point, and someone told him (It might have been Pat Patterson) that he could shoot Hulk Hogan in the middle of the ring... and people still wouldn't boo him.

 

I might have the specifics of the quote mixed up, but that was the basic premise.

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I don't know. The first time I watched WCW, I think it was Bash at the Beach 2000, my friends told me that Goldberg was an asshole and Nash was the face. I beleived them. Back then I was quite uninitiated in wrestling, not having cable tv, and beleived them. I have a feeling they also thought what they told me. So to me I can't see Nash as a heel. I can't see Jim Ross as a heel, I can't see Jeff Hardy as a heel. I'm very sure I wouldn't be able to see R-Truth or CM Punk as heels either. Just haven't seen them in such roles.

 

CM Punk is a great heel. He's straight edge, just go holier than thou, talk down to everyone who drinks and smokes, easy transition.

 

I don't think Jeff could work as a heel, simply for the fact that his whole moveset is based around popping the crowd, and he's not solid enough on the mic to really give a money heel turn promo. So even if they tried turning him, his high risk moves would still keep him popular.

 

Rey sucked at his failed heel turn for this very same reason.

 

Jeff would work great as a heel. Quit the crazy dancing and put his crazy high-flying over as the fact that he's snapped, he's so desperate to hurt his opponent that he'll take any risk, even one that hurts himself. Get him to sell his own bumps a LITTLE bit less, so they don't generate sympathy, just a realisation that he's putting his body on the line because he's so keen to take out Face Of The Week, and you're there.

 

My idea for Hardy was always that he starts losing until he doesn't care and just wants to hurt people even if he doesn't win. Then, by doing suicidal crazy shit, he starts winning, as a heel. If he's going full-bore, so hard that even if the face is trying to get some space Hardy just goes straight over the top rope after them and keeps pounding, never shows fear because you can't do anything to him that he hasn't already done to himself... sort of like Daredevil on crack, or something.

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Or on the other end of the spectrum, Jeff stops taking risks completely because he doesn't think his fans are worth it anymore.

 

I think that would be funny...he could go up top for the swanton...then jump down and apply a simple sleeper hold to get the win.

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I don't know. The first time I watched WCW, I think it was Bash at the Beach 2000, my friends told me that Goldberg was an asshole and Nash was the face. I beleived them. Back then I was quite uninitiated in wrestling, not having cable tv, and beleived them. I have a feeling they also thought what they told me. So to me I can't see Nash as a heel. I can't see Jim Ross as a heel, I can't see Jeff Hardy as a heel. I'm very sure I wouldn't be able to see R-Truth or CM Punk as heels either. Just haven't seen them in such roles.

 

CM Punk is a great heel. He's straight edge, just go holier than thou, talk down to everyone who drinks and smokes, easy transition.

 

I don't think Jeff could work as a heel, simply for the fact that his whole moveset is based around popping the crowd, and he's not solid enough on the mic to really give a money heel turn promo. So even if they tried turning him, his high risk moves would still keep him popular.

 

Rey sucked at his failed heel turn for this very same reason.

 

When did Rey work heel?

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I don't know. The first time I watched WCW, I think it was Bash at the Beach 2000, my friends told me that Goldberg was an asshole and Nash was the face. I beleived them. Back then I was quite uninitiated in wrestling, not having cable tv, and beleived them. I have a feeling they also thought what they told me. So to me I can't see Nash as a heel. I can't see Jim Ross as a heel, I can't see Jeff Hardy as a heel. I'm very sure I wouldn't be able to see R-Truth or CM Punk as heels either. Just haven't seen them in such roles.

 

CM Punk is a great heel. He's straight edge, just go holier than thou, talk down to everyone who drinks and smokes, easy transition.

 

I don't think Jeff could work as a heel, simply for the fact that his whole moveset is based around popping the crowd, and he's not solid enough on the mic to really give a money heel turn promo. So even if they tried turning him, his high risk moves would still keep him popular.

 

Rey sucked at his failed heel turn for this very same reason.

 

When did Rey work heel?

 

Filthy Animals days?

 

And Jeff Hardy would SO work as a heel at this point. All he'd have to do is blame the fans for popping for all the high risk moves he did, and then blame them for those said moves never getting him over the top. He'd generate heel heat instantly.

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I can't see Jim Ross as a heel, I can't see Jeff Hardy as a heel.

Good ol' JR was twice a heel, both failing. First was when he brought in Fake Razor and Fake Diesel, and the second time was returning after a particularly bad bout with Bell's Palsy (hence his face) and getting mad over Cole replacing him while he was out. It went over as well as expected.

Hardy...I could see somebody with a style similar to Hardy's getting over as a heel, but not Hardy himself. To be a heel you need to either show a complete killer instinct or to be cocky beyond just being confident. Hardy's mic skills are just finally at a level considered "acceptable" to talk here and there, and he lacks the finesse in the ring to be seen as a "killer," per se. IIRC, didn't the Hardy Boyz have a VERY brief heel run upon joining up with Michael PS Hayes, and then another quick one as the New Brood? I'm pretty sure they were initially supposed to be the heels in the Hardy Boyz/E&C feud, but their matches were just so much fun that the fans couldn't hate on them.

I'm very sure I wouldn't be able to see R-Truth or CM Punk as heels either. Just haven't seen them in such roles.

I don't watch Smackdown, but I do believe R-Truth is Ron Killings. If so: DUDE IS A SOLID FUCKING HEEL. He was the highlight of TNA in 2002 outside of the X-Division because of just how solid a heel he was, and he ended up forcing the fans to cheer for him. Killings as a heel would be easy to do, because he's just naturally angry, condescending, and cocky on the mic.

And Punk...like somebody else said, just have him do the RoH "I'm straight edge, so I'm better than you" routine.

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IIRC, didn't the Hardy Boyz have a VERY brief heel run upon joining up with Michael PS Hayes, and then another quick one as the New Brood? I'm pretty sure they were initially supposed to be the heels in the Hardy Boyz/E&C feud, but their matches were just so much fun that the fans couldn't hate on them.

 

When they debuted at Hayes' side, they were really just 'there'. They probably came up on the heel side of things but they didn't really do anything that stood out as heelish. They were heels throughout the TIT tournament as the New Brood, but again they never really did anything heelish. It was just through association. They got pops for the big moves and that was it, until the Ladder Match which turned them face. It might be different now people have connected to them though.

 

I think Hardy the character would work as a heel with the storylines people have been suggesting. But I don't see Hardy playing a convincing heel character. Matt was different, you could always kinda see him as able to change characters. Jeff is just himself. And that's great. It's whether he could stop being himself and play a heel effectively.

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Al Snow as a heel in late '99. He tried, but it just didn't work.

 

Definatley agree. I also agree that even with expert booking, there are some people that should never be heel. Snow is one of them. You can't turn the "goofy but likeable" babyface into a heel because the fans just won't take it seriously. They tried turning Eugene heel last year and it bombed miserably.

 

I almost forgot that Eugene heel turn of 2 years ago. He'd get mad like Adam Sandler in "The Waterboy", then scream "stop laughing at me" while the crowd sat there in silence.

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I don't know. The first time I watched WCW, I think it was Bash at the Beach 2000, my friends told me that Goldberg was an asshole and Nash was the face. I beleived them. Back then I was quite uninitiated in wrestling, not having cable tv, and beleived them. I have a feeling they also thought what they told me. So to me I can't see Nash as a heel. I can't see Jim Ross as a heel, I can't see Jeff Hardy as a heel. I'm very sure I wouldn't be able to see R-Truth or CM Punk as heels either. Just haven't seen them in such roles.

 

CM Punk is a great heel. He's straight edge, just go holier than thou, talk down to everyone who drinks and smokes, easy transition.

 

I don't think Jeff could work as a heel, simply for the fact that his whole moveset is based around popping the crowd, and he's not solid enough on the mic to really give a money heel turn promo. So even if they tried turning him, his high risk moves would still keep him popular.

 

Rey sucked at his failed heel turn for this very same reason.

 

When did Rey work heel?

 

Filthy Animals days?

 

And Jeff Hardy would SO work as a heel at this point. All he'd have to do is blame the fans for popping for all the high risk moves he did, and then blame them for those said moves never getting him over the top. He'd generate heel heat instantly.

 

Yeah, Rey was a heel for like a nanosecond in WCW, but nobody cared. Because his moveset still popped the crowd. Jeff doesn't have the acting chops to pull off the heel turn believably. Him trying to get intense on MVP awhile back was almost laughably bad, he's okay at talking in small portions, but a convincing heel turn would require more mic work than I think I could deal with from Jeff.

 

Now Toxxic's Jeff going Kamikazee heel might work, but I still think he'd at most float tweener with the crowd because he'd still be overly aggressive instead of full out heel.

 

JR's announce table was the Shit. Anyone who doesn't think so needs to go back and watch that shit again.

 

 

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THis is why dudes like KANE and KHALI wrock. Can be heel. Can be face. Crowd loves em/hates em either way, they are always over!

 

Wich is alos why Tirple is ove [email protected]! He weOROCKS! Every time he done t tothe squraed cicle with thes fat fings!!!!!!!

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And John Cena he can rap about how your ghey no matter who you are. Then he'll YOU CAN'T SEE ME and you can't.

 

Chain Gang 4 Lyfe.

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You know what's sad? I actually sort of agree that Kane and Khali are both guys who have been solid as heels and faces.

 

Interesting to mention Rey....I couldn't tell if he was exactly heel or face in the Filthy Animals, but he was a total douche for most of 1999. I thought he was a heel during the No Limit trash. In fact with him using the bronco buster during that era he was getting dangerously close to being X-Pac.

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Fail?

 

NO.

 

Building your OWN ANNOUNCE TABLE because you were replaced and having Dr Death stand guard while you worked was AWESOME.

 

Hell fucker yes! I loved this version of Jim Ross. Have Dr. Death stand guard at your table, then when Bart Gunn is wrestling a match, have Dr. Death give him a BackdropDriver just for the hell of it.

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Someone at the Death Valley Driver Board came up with a great idea to get Khali over as a face, moreso than this weird-ass kiss-cam. Give Khali his own talk show segment, like a Bollywood Larry King Live, complete with dancers, live music, spectacle... the whole works. Have Khali take phone calls and respond to every one by yelling at them in Punjabi. In fact, Khali just randomly yelling at phones and other inanimate objects in Punjabi sounds like instant face heat.

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Me and my brother once pondered what a Tito Santana heel turn would be like and all that we could come up with him growing a goatee and still saying "Arriba" at the end of his interviews but in an ominous hushed tone. I don't know why but the thought of that cracked us up.

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Here's one I just thought of today: Koko B. Ware. I can't really imagine JYD as a heel either.

Didn't Koko work heel in Memphis under a name like Sweet Daddy Sugar?

 

Koko worked as Sweet Brown Sugar. He also formed an effective heel team with Norvell Austin as The Pretty Young Things or The PYT Express.

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Me and my brother once pondered what a Tito Santana heel turn would be like and all that we could come up with him growing a goatee and still saying "Arriba" at the end of his interviews but in an ominous hushed tone. I don't know why but the thought of that cracked us up.

 

 

It's cracking me up right now!

 

"Arriba."

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Jeff Hardy should do a version of what happened to Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn in Major League II.

 

He wins the World Title, then starts getting all these endorsement deals and starts dressing and behaving in a manner to appease his sponsors. He would stop doing all the high-risk stuff as he could say that he has his career to think about. It would be massive heat if done correctly.

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