WWE Raw - December 1, 2008

[Silence 0]

lol @ ask him

 

Invisible ref!

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

I think Ted Jr should still be in the Orton-led faction. He could have been the IC threat, with Orton for the World Title and Cody and Manu after the tags.

 

 

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I think Ted Jr should still be in the Orton-led faction. He could have been the IC threat, with Orton for the World Title and Cody and Manu after the tags.

And if not, he could always bring in his brother...

[cabbageboy 0]

Is there some sort of law stating that Orton can never hit his Lethal Kick of Doom on Cena? When Jericho had Cena in the Liontamer at the end of the show it would have been an ideal time. Jericho is for all intents and purposes a dead man walking at this point when it comes to main eventing. He's clearly in this match at Armageddon so he can job out and they can build Orton for the Rumble (and maybe No Way Out too).

 

The IC tourney has a solid Final 4 but I have to admit Rey winning was a bit puzzling. The whole Knox attack seemed to be building to the excuse for Rey losing to The Miz, but he won anyway. It looked like they were going for Punk/Morrison and Kofi/Miz in a battle of tag teams facing off in singles matches.

[goldengreek 0]

Holy shit did Cena look aweful in that match with Kane. Botchfest.

[RedJed 0]

Holy shit did Cena look aweful in that match with Kane. Botchfest.

 

Yeah, that match was atrocious to sit through, thank god I DVR'd the show versus watching it as it was happening live. He did a great job selling during the beatdown though, at least.

 

In fact, most of that Raw was a fucking chore to sit through. Highlight had to be the short Rey/Miz match to me. Pretty fun little deal there. The beatdown at the end was pretty strong, although I totally question them even thinking of doing Orton/Cena again, given we would see a pretty strong opposite effect type of reaction for each of them if you ask me. They might as well just go ahead and turn Orton if they are going to go back to Cena/Orton again. And of course we know they won't turn Cena, so the idea of a double turn just isn't going to happen. Thought it would have made more sense for Jericho to just have did the final beatdown comeback on Cena instead of Orton, since, ya know, he's supposed to be challenging for the belt in a few weeks. But it is what it is.

 

Next week sounds really like a loaded show to me, ppv calibur on paper in terms of the matches lined up. HHH/Batista, Cena/Edge part ???, Hardy/Jericho, as well as I would assume Kofi/Rey (which could be strong) and Punk/Morrison (which is normally a solid matchup) to lead to Regal versus the winner at the ppv. I'm sure the awards segments will be some of the most out of touch corniness seen in quite some time from the company, if recent booking ideas seem to keep going the same way. The Duggan Shopzone commercial on the show, the Santino shit, as well as the DX hauking toys certainly reached levels of sheer ridiculousness of stupidity in WWE always striving to just be sooooo hilarious we all forgot to laugh. Doesn't Freddy Prinze Jr. have any better ideas for ways to add comedy to the show than this shit?

[Boner Kawanger 0]

I think Ted Jr should still be in the Orton-led faction. He could have been the IC threat, with Orton for the World Title and Cody and Manu after the tags.

And if not, he could always bring in his brother...

If Ted's gonna be in a movie, they might feel the need to turn him face. Which would suck.

[Enigma 0]

If you didn't laugh at Santino's stuff tonight, you have no sense of humor. That is all.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Speaking of which, can anyone make a .gif of that fall?

[CubbyBr 0]

If you didn't laugh at Santino's stuff tonight, you have no sense of humor. That is all.

 

I actually laughed more at Dolph Ziggler.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Question (though based on the times of posted comments I can make a guess at the answer): Is Raw getting shorter / losing the overrun, or is The Score in Canada doing a better job of "catching up" to the live program? The show always seems to end at exactly 11:15 pm here, the sole exception in the past month was an episode that ended at 11:12 (!).

[Enigma 0]

The shows have been ending around 11:05 in the U.S. for the last few months, although there was one show about a month or two ago that actually ended right at 11pm.

[sluggo 0]

Is there some sort of law stating that Orton can never hit his Lethal Kick of Doom on Cena? When Jericho had Cena in the Liontamer at the end of the show it would have been an ideal time.

 

Cena and his dad got the boot before he got injured the first time (torn pec)

[Scroby 0]

I really enjoyed Raw tonight from start....to almost the finish of the show. The show kinda started to drag around 10:40 or so but overall I liked it.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The only problem I had with Raw were some odd continuity issues, and I don't even know if that would be the correct term. There were two things they set up during the show that made no sense by the end. The lesser one would be removing Rey from his match with Miz, then all of the sudden Miz comes out for his match and there's no dramatic "Is Rey able to compete?" pause, he just comes on out. The injury played a part in the match so I can't fault the lack of callback there, but it was a bit odd to have Layla ask Stephanie to remove Rey from the tournament, Stephanie agree, and then Rey wrestles anyway. The bigger issue was Kane turning face but not being a face at all. I'll choose to interpret his comments as playing into the fact he's nuts, but I'm sure it confused others into thinking he turned face.

 

Other than that, fun stuff. Jericho's promo work tonight was great, I enjoyed Punk/Kofi vs Priceless (but another slight gripe - what kind of tag champions have separate entrances? Do these guys think they're Cena and HBK?), Santino's antics, and the rest.

 

Is there a rule that Edge has to face Cena on Raw within a few weeks whenever he (Edge) wins a world title? I think Edge did his Raw farewell job to Cena (but that might have been HBK, who I recall got to give Kurt Angle the Raw farewell job when he won the World Heavyweight Title in a battle royal) and he wrestled Cena in a champ vs. champ match at the 2007 draft. So, here we are, another 3 hour special and another champ vs. champ Edge vs. Cena match. I'm not complaining though, they work well together.

 

I noticed people were questioning the comment about a great Jericho vs. Hardy rivalry with no answer given, but they did have a series of matches in the spring before Jeff was suspended that were pretty good. They also had a really good match at No Way Out 2003, and that was when Jeff was awful and blowing every spot.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

For me, the best thing on the show last night was the HBK/JBL segment. JBL begging Shawn to hit him, and Michaels just looking saddened, foreshadowing an inevitable heel turn, was gold. Anyone who thinks JBL needs to be back in the booth, is missing the boat, as evidenced by segments like the one last night.

 

I was also surprised and mildly impressed by Dolph Ziggler. I expected a fairly generic wrestler by his appearance, but he busted out some pretty cool moves. Not sure I get the logic in jobbing him in his first match, and the announcers didn't really put him over post-match.

 

As far as Rey's angle...I was also pretty confused by that. The only thing that makes sense at this point is for him to make the final match of the tournament, and then lose due to the injured arm. However, if he faces Punk, that won't really make sense. Maybe it will be Rey/Morrison in the finals, with Morrison brutalizing the arm and getting a "cheap" win?

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

As far as Rey's angle...I was also pretty confused by that. The only thing that makes sense at this point is for him to make the final match of the tournament, and then lose due to the injured arm. However, if he faces Punk, that won't really make sense. Maybe it will be Rey/Morrison in the finals, with Morrison brutalizing the arm and getting a "cheap" win?

 

However then you'd have a Morrison vs Regal IC match, and I don't think that would really work with the fans. If anything Regal is going to be the one to brutalize Mysterio's arm. I guess the bookers felt they needed to protect Mysterio from eventually losing by giving him an injury.

 

[Shooter in a Wedding Dress 0]

Quick idea for Kane that may be too dangerous to pull off....

 

But how about a story where he goes over-board trying to win the fans over? Kind of playing off what he said to Jericho last night, you can have Kane just destroy some lower-midcard heel, continually beating him to the crowds approval. Then you do that with another guy until you expect the 'Kane savagely attacks _______' segment. Then you pair him with a face and have him just punish him in an attempt to win over the fans. This of course only works if the fans start booing him when he takes it too far with the face. It'd be a new tweener level character I don't think I've seen before. Of course expecting wrestling fans to not cheer brutality after relying on them to cheer it, at some point isn't exactly likely.

 

Thoughts?

[Wrestlefreak 0]

Jericho screaming "ask him!" when he put Cena in the Walls was a nice touch.

 

The JBL/HBK segment was really well done. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

 

I'm glad my man JoMo beat Finlay. Shame Miz didn't go over Rey.

 

 

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

Overall I thought it was a pretty solid show. I dug the Jericho opening, he's really on the top of his game right now, too bad it's nothing but Cena fodder. At least he can make Cena seem interesting. I do have a continuity beef though as I recall the Jericho/JBL feud soon after Jericho's return involved Jericho's son watching him on teevee.

 

So is Knox just a cruiserweight bully? Or was there something more behind his Mysterio assault? I hope the bookers have something in ind for Knox that isn't Snitsky v2.0

 

Kingston/Punk vs Rhodes/Manu was a good enough television match. Cody is bulking up, and while Manu looks like a slob, he's actually pretty good in the ring. Punk playing Face-in-Peril for Kofi was a strange decision by the writers, but I guess Kofi does have better "hot tag" offense. "Priceless" is such a stupid faction name though, hopefully that goes th way of the Dodo when Orton enters to lead.

 

I'm not feeling Orton/Rhodes/Manu, probably because I saw Dibiase as the leader and one with the breakout potential. For whatever reason Rhodes is still the greenback teaming with Hardcore Holly and not really even a midcard threat in my eyes. Manu is a tag worker at best right now. I think this faction will need a fourth member, assuming Dibiase will not be returning.

 

I thought the DX shilling segment was amusing and otherwise harmless.

 

Kane talking about "his fans" was just to show how demented and out of touch with reality he is. I'm so damn tired of Kane.

 

I don't know how Melina will work as a face, but her "Code Red" finisher will go a long way in getting her over and accepted as a face. I was an instant and early critic of the Marella and Phoenix pairing, but they've surprised me together. I will say (again) that I wish Santino would be allowed to be more of a threat in the ring, but I guess the powers that be think he;d lose his comedic value if he could win matches (without cheating).

 

JBL is a pro. He can lose feud after feud, but instantly get heat back with a mic segment. I still believe his best value to the company is as a color commentator, but he wants to be in the ring right now and I can live with that. He's dropped a lot of weight lately and has no problem putting folks over while his mic work keeps him in the upper card. His feud with HBK should be decent enough in-ring (HBK will make sure of that), both can bring it on the mic and I assume that JBL and HBK will have a lot of creative input into this storyline. Will be a short program though, as HBK has grand plans for WM25 and it doesn't include JBL.

 

Dolph Ziggler's debut loss did more for him than a jobber squash win. He had a couple nice moves that made the crowd take notice and didn't get squashed by Batista even if it was a short match. I hate the fact that we're not supposed to remember Nicky though, however other than Doane, the Spirit Squad members were never really pushed as individual personalities/entities and were more like Spirit Squad Member #1, Spirit Squad Member #2 etc. At least it's not as bad as trying to sell Big Daddy V as a new character when he jumped to ECW.

 

I missed all of the Morrison vs Finlay match because I was watching Boston Legal. I can't stand Finlay with Hornswoggle anymore, so it was probably a good thing.

 

I also missed the Mysterio vs Miz match. Denny Crane.

 

Cena vs Kane was U-G-L-Y. Kane jobs in 2-minutes, but next week he'll be the Big Red Threat again - go figure.

 

The beatdown looked bad at first(with Cena no-selling everything) , but the elevated DDT and Liontamer fade to black was solid.

 

 

 

 

[Boner Kawanger 0]

 

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

If the JBL/Shawn angle leads to Shawn dressed up as a limo driver, it's golden.

[Chazz 0]

I wasn't expecting much from this show going in considering next week's program, thus I was pleasantly surprised. The only thing that bothered me was the Kane comment about "loving the fans", considering it was only several weeks ago he said how much he hated them for wearing everyday masks, or whatever the hell it was. Maybe they'll follow up on this, who knows.

[haws bah gawd 0]

I noticed people were questioning the comment about a great Jericho vs. Hardy rivalry with no answer given, but they did have a series of matches in the spring before Jeff was suspended that were pretty good. They also had a really good match at No Way Out 2003, and that was when Jeff was awful and blowing every spot.

 

FWIW, there was one match on RAW a couple weeks prior to No Way Out '03 which was even better, where Jericho carried Jeff like a backpack, to one of the better matches I've seen. They clicked very well, with Jericho just barely squeezing by with a pin. With the HORRIBLE matches Jeff was putting on week in and week out at the time, I always considered it a testament to just how good Jericho is.

 

RAW was indeed a bit of a chore to sit though, and I found myself getting bored and flipping to TBS to watch the same overplayed Family Guy reruns from time to time.

 

Kofi/Punk vs Rhodes/Manu was actually pretty good. Manu showed some major agility with the height he got on the corner splash. I don't really buy Cody as a threat to anyone, but he has improved by leaps and bounds over the past year.

 

The DX-Shopzone segment was great! When kept to short spurts like that, DX is always entertaining.

 

I got a laugh out of Kane saying, "I love these fans, and they love me!". I don't know if they're trying to turn Kane face for the 1000th time, or if it's just playing into his crazy person character.

 

Dolph Ziggler's debut was a lot of fun. He and Batista put on a decent match, that surprisingly, wasn't a squash. Dolph has some unique offense, and I was kind of surprised at how much offense they let him get on the hometown hero. I'd like to see more of him.

 

I'm liking Melina using the "Code Red" as a finisher. It's a hell of a lot better than that HogLog she used to use.

 

I always laugh when WWE advertises Kane for a match against anyone, like the guy is actually a threat, or has a chance of winning. You're pretty damned delusional if you think Kane is going to get a win over my favourite wrestler of all time John Cena.

 

Speaking of my favourite wrestler of all time John Cena, up until Priceless and Orton ran in, I was getting pretty pissed that they had him handing Jericho's ass to him, AGAIN. I know Jericho is supposed to be a chickenshit heel, but let the guy do something to Cena. Also, Cena was no selling everything Priceless and Orton were throwing at him until Jericho hit some miracle move from behind, and Orton hit his Death DDT. Orton's back had to be feeling GREAT after that one! Cena locked in the Liontamer was a great way to close the show. It'd be nice if Jericho went back to using the Liontamer, as opposed to the Walls of Jericho, more often. Same move, but better visual presentation.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I have to give props to the Geico parody with Duggan. "Why'd they stop making those foam 2x4's anyway!?". The narrator also sounded a lot like Christopher Sabat but I'm sure it wasn't. Either way, my mind heard Piccolo saying the lines it and it was great. I'm also looking forward to a 3rd DX Christmas commercial next week.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

Given the outside interference, why did Kane have to lose in such short order last night?

 

Why is Melina's "Code Red" flipping powerbomb called "The Last Call"? Where is the character tie in? That move is going to get her over like Bourne's SSP did for him. It's one of those moves that you want to see live.

[Silence 0]

Why is Melina's "Code Red" flipping powerbomb called "The Last Call"? Where is the character tie in? That move is going to get her over like Bourne's SSP did for him. It's one of those moves that you want to see live.

 

Melina got drunk with Scott Hall?

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Probably because her character was always kind of a club girl

[Brett Favre 0]

Speaking of my favourite wrestler of all time John Cena, up until Priceless and Orton ran in, I was getting pretty pissed that they had him handing Jericho's ass to him, AGAIN. I know Jericho is supposed to be a chickenshit heel, but let the guy do something to Cena. Also, Cena was no selling everything Priceless and Orton were throwing at him until Jericho hit some miracle move from behind, and Orton hit his Death DDT. Orton's back had to be feeling GREAT after that one! Cena locked in the Liontamer was a great way to close the show. It'd be nice if Jericho went back to using the Liontamer, as opposed to the Walls of Jericho, more often. Same move, but better visual presentation.

 

I don't have a problem with chickenshit Jericho. Why must everyone look strong all the time? John Cena took it to another gear last week, and he's exposing Jericho for who he really is. I have no problem with this booking. Especially since after Orton hit the DDT he looked like a great heel by locking on the Liontamer on a defenseless Cena.

 

Also, sometimes we see what we want to see, because what actually happened was Cena pushing away Manu and Rhodes, which led to Orton coming right at him and knocking Cena down, beating the crap out of him, before hitting the DDT. There was no Jericho "miracle" move from behind or any of that.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Really strong show this week.

 

I'm assuming the point with Knox is that he only attacks people when they're at their most vulnerable, and once he's stared at them for a while first. If that's the case, and otherwise why would they have Rey tripping up, the commentary didn't sell it all. Knox didn't attack Rey at all until he fell, even when Rey was punching him, yet King was talking as if Knox jumped Rey and kicked his ass.