The 2009 NFL Offseason

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Backups can't count.

 

...

 

Rob Johnson has one.

[Sideburnious 0]

I think I get what tod is saying but it's a little drastic. Sure McNabb is not as good as he used to be, as he is older. He's still better than not having McNabb. I think the plan with this year was play McNabb for a few games, if he bombs, bring in Kolb. Then cut McNabb. He played well and showed that he's better than not having him. I'm pretty sure next year will be a wash-rinse-repeat of this.

They can be building for the future with McNabb as a safety net. Cutting him and leaving us with Kolb (and Feeley?) at QB would be a bad move. Who would we bring in as a third backup? Grossman.

 

The comparison with McNabb & Eli is a fallacy. Eli won a ring so he's better than McNabb, who has been consistantly good, but never won the big game, not taking into consideration the Osi/Strahan rush and the efforts or the whole defence. Again look what happend to Eli's game without Plaxico. Maybe if McNabb had a Plaxico he could get to the playoffs more often too.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Another thing I'd really REALLY like to see the Eagles address is a short yardage pound back. Third and short killed them all season and it wasn't friendly again in the playoffs. Westbrook, as much as I hate saying it, is running quickly out of legs considering the punishment he has taken. They really need to consider finding another guy FOR THE FUTURE (not now Eagle fans). Buckhalter and Booker just strike me as Westbrook clones, which is great for the passing game but zero help in short yardage spots. They need to find one somewhere, anywhere.

 

This is the real problem with the Eagles right now. They have no consistency in the running game. Notice that they win whenever they can get a big game out of Westbrook, but lose (the Divisional Game against the Giants being an exception) when they don't. They really lack that big power back that compliment Westbrook and convert those 3rd & Shorts and on the Goaline. That's what they really need. The passing game is fine.

 

As for McNabb wanting back, we don't have an insight into his mind so we naturally will always look at the franchise side of things. But I can speak personally, that if it was me in the same situation, I wouldn't want to stay an Eagle. The fans and the media are being very disrespectful and have been ever since he got there. Loyalty to Andy Reid (who's in pretty much the same situation) is about the only reason I would want to stay.

 

I know that given the choice of the two, I would much prefer McNabb to Eli Manning. Manning is an average to above-average QB that happens to be on a great team. He's not a bad QB, but he's not a guy that can put a team on his back like McNabb can either. That's why the Giants (or at least Eli) want Burress back so badly. Because he bailed out Eli out lots, and he really struggled without him this year. If you rank the QBs in the NFL, Eli's probably in the 10-15 range out of 32 teams, so I don't believe I'm shortchanging him.

[naiwf 0]

The comparison with McNabb & Eli is a fallacy. Eli won a ring so he's better than McNabb, who has been consistantly good, but never won the big game, not taking into consideration the Osi/Strahan rush and the efforts or the whole defence. Again look what happend to Eli's game without Plaxico. Maybe if McNabb had a Plaxico he could get to the playoffs more often too.

 

I don't think anyone in this thread has said Eli was BETTER than McNabb. I know that I said, I'd rather have Eli as my QB because he proved he could win a SB, while McNabb has not. I also said, I'd rather have Eli's career because they can't take away the fact he won a SB (and was the MVP of the game). McNabb will probably be a HOFer, but that doesn't mean he's ever going to be a champion. If Philly wants a guy with great stats every year, they should keep him. If they ever want to win a title, they need to look elsewhere before we're in 2014 he's 37-38 and they have no choice but to draft another QB high in the draft with Kolb never getting a chance.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I think there is FAR too much emphasis being put on QBs "winning" the Superbowl.

 

Does Elis 255 yards, 2 TDs and 3 turnovers in the Superbowl really make him a better QB than he was the day before or he was this year?

 

McNabb threw for a hundred more yards and one more TD against the same # of turnovers in his Superbowl...

 

The point is the QB, while important, can't always control what happens in a game. And if Eli gets all the credit for winning that SB...then he should get all of the guff for the other 3 no win playoff appearances that surrounded it.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

And Eli wouldn't have that Super Bowl if it wasn't for what was basically a fluke catch by Tyree. There is so much in this game that is beyond the control of one player.

 

Otherwise we should just declare Bart Starr the best player of all-time and call it a day, despite that team being loaded and not missing much when he was hurt.

[2GOLD 0]

 

At the end of the day, all that matters is if you leave the field with a ring. How you do it no longer matters.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

At the end of the day, all that matters is if you leave the field with a ring. How you do it no longer matters.

 

Yes, it does. Relying on blind luck is not a good business model. That's why teams spend millions upon millions in free agency and getting ready for the draft.

[naiwf 0]

I think there is FAR too much emphasis being put on QBs "winning" the Superbowl.

 

Does Elis 255 yards, 2 TDs and 3 turnovers in the Superbowl really make him a better QB than he was the day before or he was this year?

 

McNabb threw for a hundred more yards and one more TD against the same # of turnovers in his Superbowl...

 

The point is the QB, while important, can't always control what happens in a game. And if Eli gets all the credit for winning that SB...then he should get all of the guff for the other 3 no win playoff appearances that surrounded it.

 

He does. If Eli hadn't won it all last year, I think there's the distinct possibility that the Giants would have been looking for a new QB in a couple of years when his deal ends.

 

I can't believe that sports fans are arguing about whether winning championships are important or not when evaluating players. I would have thought that the average sports fan would rather root for a dreadful franchise like the Marlins who have won 2 titles in their short existence and sucked just about every other season than be along for the ride during the Braves' "dynasty" of 13 straight divisions and only 1 championship, but it seems like that's not the case here.

[2GOLD 0]

At the end of the day, all that matters is if you leave the field with a ring. How you do it no longer matters.

 

Yes, it does. Relying on blind luck is not a good business model. That's why teams spend millions upon millions in free agency and getting ready for the draft.

 

I'm not saying I agree with it but let's face it, it has now become the measuring stick for all quarterbacks. It's the strike they were trying to place on Dan Marino. No one pays attention to the talent, hell no one pays much attention to the GAME when it is over. All they seem to care about is which quarterback left with the ring.

 

I'd STILL take Donovan over Eli even without the ring. Cause that receiving corps in NY that game saved Eli's ass about a dozen times and that was a true statement for a long time. He is improving more and more everyday though so it's not even a strike against Eli.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I didn't say it wasn't important. I'm just saying it's not as important as it's been made out to be the last couple of pages. If we go to far down that path we eventually end up with Dilfer being better than Marino.

 

The Ravens were better than the Dolphins. The other 52 guys count.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

But there is more to a championship then one player, that's they point. It is silly to blame the QB, when the problem with the team is elsewhere. That's what the Bears do and they've had an endless revolving door at the position for decades and only one Super Bowl championship to show for it. With this logic in 1995 the Broncos should have dumped John Elway (multi-time playoff loser) for Mark Rypien (Super Bowl MVP). Anybody who suggested that should have been fired on the spot, and if they had gone ahead and made the move the Broncos would still be looking for the their first Super Bowl.

 

Championships are won by fixing your weaknesses, not by tearing down your strengths. Put McNabb on the Giants, and they are probably still playing right now.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I can't believe that sports fans are arguing about whether winning championships are important or not when evaluating players. I would have thought that the average sports fan would rather root for a dreadful franchise like the Marlins who have won 2 titles in their short existence and sucked just about every other season than be along for the ride during the Braves' "dynasty" of 13 straight divisions and only 1 championship, but it seems like that's not the case here.

I'd much rather root for an organization that put a winning team on the field every year than one that wins a title and then holes up for the next decade. I understand the expression "flags fly forever" but I don't see how my enjoyment is improved today by knowing that my team won a title five or ten years ago. Jumping across sports here, but I'd be happy with the Red Sox throwing out a 90-95 win team each year even if they didn't have the two titles this decade. I like rooting for the chance that the team can break through.

 

Also I don't get how you can evaluate "players" in terms of championships. Last time I checked, football, baseball and basketball were "team" sports. Eli didn't win a title because he has some innate ability to win big games. He won because his defense shredded everyone. He won because he has a phenomenal running game. He won because of a tremendous receiving corps anchored by one the game's best wideouts. He dis his part, but I don't know how that ring on his finger makes him any better as a QB than McNabb when their respective circumstances weren't the same.

[Annabelle 0]

you're all idiots.

 

to make it clear:

 

1. donovan mcnabb's career has been better than eli mannings.

2. eli manning is a better choice NOW because he's younger and has proven he can win at a young age. (this comparison was brought up by another poster, not me, btw).

3. i never said the eagles should cut mcnabb. all i said was that the eagles need to start looking at options beyond mcnabb. maybe rebuilding instead of trying to win now with mcnabb. they won't be better NOW if they cut mcnabb, but in the longrun it may help the franchise.

 

 

[naiwf 0]

Also I don't get how you can evaluate "players' in terms of championships. Last time I checked, football, baseball and basketball were team sports. Eli didn't win a title because he has some innate ability to win big games. He won because his defense shredded everyone. He won because he has a phenomenal running game. He won because of a tremendous receiving corps anchored by one the game's best wideouts. He dis his part, but I don't know how that ring on his finger makes him any better as a QB than McNabb when their respective circumstances weren't the same.

 

There's a whole lot of revisionist history going on in that post. The Giants that won the SB last year did not have a "phenomenal" running game or a "tremendous" receiving corps.

 

In the playoffs they ran 30 times for 100 yards and a TD against TB, while Eli was 20-27 for 185 and 2 TDs

Against Dallas, 23 rushes for 90 and a TD, while Eli was 12-18 for 163 and 2 TDs.

In Green Bay, 39 rushes for 134 and 2 TDs, while Eli was 21-40 for 254.

In the SB, 26 rushes for 91, while Eli was 19-34 for 255 with 2 TDs and a pick.

 

That running game carried the ball 118 times for 415 yards which is about 3.5 yards a pop. No individual had more than 67 yards in any game and Bradshaw was probably the most effective back we had. They accounted for 4 of the 10 TDs the team scored and rarely sparked the offense. THIS year's team was run dominant, not the one that won it. And the receiving corps was Plax and a bunch of other guys. Outside of Burress there was no one on the Giants that would have started for any other playoff team in the league. Let's not act like that offense was loaded. The defense held teams in check, but Eli pretty much was asked to win the last two games which he did because Tynes missed 2 FGs at Lambeau, and Eli kept getting us in position to win, and everyone knows about the final drive in the SB. When McNabb is given a chance to win the big one on the final drive and actually does it, I'll admit I was wrong.

[Guest Vitamin X]

If it weren't for Plax last year, it would've been the Packers in the Super Bowl against the Patriots, not the Giants. Plax just completely dominated and abused Al Harris that day, and then of course there was Corey Webster picking off Favre's ridiculously stupid pass in overtime. And then there was New York's run defense shutting down Ryan Grant. Eli didn't have as much to do with it in that game as did the rest of the team (particularly the defense) which did a spectacular job against the offense.

 

Eli did do a tremendous job against the Patriots, though.

[Psycho Penguin 0]

I'm watching the Ravens/Giants Super Bowl now and Dilfer has been awful so far.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I'm watching the Ravens/Giants Super Bowl now and Dilfer has been awful so far.

 

But he has a ring!

[garfieldsnose 0]

eli won because of himself. he's not as good as mcnabb at his peak (he is now, though), but he showed the ability to get the job done in the clutch. i do believe that is what puts eli ahead in the eyes of many gm's.

 

What? Eli Manning isn't playing in the Super Bowl against the Patriots if it wasn't for the NYG defense, and he sure as hell isn't winning the SB with any other defense besides that one. As far as MVP goes, Eli didn't deserve it, all the guys on the defense did.

 

And Eli threw what should have been two interceptions in that final drive in the SB. The Patriots defense choked moreso than Eli "got the job done in the clutch". David Tyree catching a ball with his helmet is as miraculous a play as one could imagine.

 

[Fökai 0]

To get back to the original point...

 

I guess I just don't see who the Eagles could replace McNabb with and expect to take that next step. They don't have a high enough draft pick to get a Stafford or a Sanchez unless they trade up. Besides, they just drafted Kolb in 2007. To be fair, Kolb doesn't have a large body of work, but the comments I've heard on him haven't been favorable. The free agent class doesn't look too promising overall. Cassell's gonna cost a fortune. There's always Warner (ironically), but I don't see that happening. Collins, Garcia, and Garrard are the next best options, but those would probably be lateral moves at best, if not taking a step back.

 

The only viable option out there in the FA class is Warner, and he's going to be locked up in a few weeks. On the draft end, the Eagles front office will not be able to justify another quarterback in the early rounds, and said player would have to play behind Kolb anyway.

 

The best solution is another sure-handed wideout, and the draft is full of late 1st-round/early 2nd round picks. Harvin, Maclin, Nicks, Heyward-Bay (Maryland), Bennett (Vandy) and Britt (Rutgers). Take a flier on a Nicks or Britt and wait another year to address the QB situation.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

NFL Coaching News

 

Rams hired former Eagles QBs coach Pat Shurmur as offensive coordinator. Near as I can tell, he'll be bringing the WCO to St. Louis with him.

 

Lions hired Gunther Cunningham to be their next defensive coordinator. He was notably with the Kansas City Chiefs.

 

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, with the help of defensive coordinator Mike Nolan, has filled out his defensive staff in recent days. Wayne Nunnely, whose contract was not renewed by the San Diego Chargers, will coach the defensive line, Raiders assistant Don Martindale will coach linebackers and longtime NFL assistant Ed Donatell the defensive backs.

 

 

[2GOLD 0]

 

Nicks from North Carolina is the probably the only receiver who I can think of right now where I'd say if you can't get Crabtree, you can get the guy who might be on the same level in terms of speed and route running. Size and strength, no, but his skills in the other two areas make up for it.

 

I'd be shocked if Nicks is still around after the first 20 picks.

 

 

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, with the help of defensive coordinator Mike Nolan, has filled out his defensive staff in recent days. Wayne Nunnely, whose contract was not renewed by the San Diego Chargers, will coach the defensive line, Raiders assistant Don Martindale will coach linebackers and longtime NFL assistant Ed Donatell the defensive backs.

 

I thought he'd already been pegged as the new Defensive Coordinator for the Raiders and was the leading candidate for the head coaching position as well. Either those reports were erroneous or Mr. Martindale has decided that being a linebackers coach for the Broncos is more prestigious. Ouch.

[JaMarcus Russell's #1 Caucasian Fan 0]

The Raiders have like one coach on staff right now. I think Cable is going to be the head coach, but why take this long? I wonder if Al Davis is going to interview Todd Haley of the Cardinals after the Super Bowl?

 

An interesting rumor that I saw floating around was that Al Saunders was talking to the Raiders about become the Offensive coordinator. The team has his type of players to run his power running game, but I've heard that his offenses are complicated and that doesn't bode well for JaMarcus Russell.

 

Don Martindale is really no loss for the Raiders really. Watching the Raider linebackers over pursuit the ball carrier constantly was maddening. I'm actually really glad all these assistants are leaving as the team wasn't winning with them anyway. I say a fresh start is in order.

[Psycho Penguin 0]

Nicks from North Carolina is the probably the only receiver who I can think of right now where I'd say if you can't get Crabtree, you can get the guy who might be on the same level in terms of speed and route running. Size and strength, no, but his skills in the other two areas make up for it.

 

I'd be shocked if Nicks is still around after the first 20 picks.

 

Heyward-Bey is the truth.

 

[AboveAverage484 0]

Yeah, I think most draft projections have Nicks going as an early second rounder, though it wouldn't surprise me if he did go in the first.

[Fökai 0]

He's the 2nd to 4th best receiver in a draft that's frontloaded with pass-rushers, linebackers and offensive linemen. I can't imagine more than 7-8 skill position players being drafted in the first round. Even with a top combine, teams will be hesitant to take him over Maclin and Harvin, who are assumed to be sure-fire elite receivers at the next level.

[the pinjockey 0]

So am I going to be the one steering the Kenny Britt train?

[2GOLD 0]

So am I going to be the one steering the Kenny Britt train?

 

Nope, I'd take Britt and Nicks over Harvin. I'd say Crabtree, Maclin, Nicks, Britt and Harvin are my top five. The only strike I have against Heyward-Bey is I saw him drop a LOT of wide open balls and try to much to cut back instead of going straight up the field in third down situations. His field recognition and hands concern me but both are easy fixes with the right coaching.

 

I don't have any strikes against Harvin other than he is a Florida wide out and I really lack the trust in them after Chad Jackson. And Harvin has that same "durability concern" tag that Jackson had. But a strong injury free combine erases those doubts quickly. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go before Britt, Nicks and Maclin but I like all three guys a little bit more than Harvin.

 

The Niners need one but I know their pick will be going to OL or Safety so they might just be able to get one of them in the second round. They have had a lot of success with Jason Hill so maybe they get lucky and snag Heyward as well.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

So am I going to be the one steering the Kenny Britt train?

 

 

Pleeease. I was suckin' Kenny Britt's dick three pages ago.