Grenouille 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Rickey Henderson & Jim Rice get in per MLB Network. Finally Jim Ed gets his due. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Czech please! Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I would've put Alan Trammell in before Jim Rice, but Tram's not wicked hahd enough to have an entire Connecticut-based arm of the sports media perennially lobbying for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 The Sox fan in me should be happy that Rice made it, but I don't think he's a HOF-caliber player. Blyleven and Raines deserve it a hell of a lot more. Henderson's speech will be amazing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 28 voters ended up leaving RICKEY~ off the ballot. No other first ballot players received enough votes to stay on the ballot. Both McGwire and Raines lost ten votes this year. Player Total Votes Percentage Rickey Henderson 511 94.8% Jim Rice 412 76.4% Andre Dawson 361 67.0% Bert Blyleven 338 62.7% Lee Smith 240 44.5% Jack Morris 237 44.0% Tommy John 171 31.7% Tim Raines 122 22.6% Mark McGwire 118 21.9% Alan Trammell 94 17.4% Dave Parker 81 15.0% Don Mattingly 64 11.9% Dale Murphy 62 11.5% Harold Baines 32 5.9% Mark Grace 22 4.1% David Cone 21 3.9% Matt Williams 7 1.3% Mo Vaughn 6 1.1% Jay Bell 2 0.4% Jesse Orosco 1 0.2% Ron Gant 0 0% Dan Plesac 0 0% Greg Vaughn 0 0% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Rickey Henderson is the greatest leadoff hitter to ever play the game and probably one of the 25 best overall. There is no reason to leave him off the ballot. This retarded holier-than-thou sportswriter complex about unanimous selections is one of the most embarrassing things in sports. As I stated in the other thread, Blyleven and Raines should be no-brainers. I still support McGwire and would probably be in favor of Dawson and Trammell as well. Jim Rice is not a HOF guy. The fact that he's in and Mo Vaughn gets 1.1% is shocking. Look at their numbers sometime... there's not much difference. But somehow because Rice was "feared" for three years, he's in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Joe Gordon was elected by the Veteran's Committee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I think alkeiper's going to have a stroke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Who voted for Mo Vaughn? Who didn't vote for Ricky Henderson? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 As I said in the other thread- Who voted for Mo Vaughn? Who didn't vote for Ricky Henderso? Aren't there some sports writers who won't vote anyone in first ballot? and one more question- When did Jim Rice become the cause to champion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Who voted for Mo Vaughn? Who didn't vote for Ricky Henderson? Answer: http://deadspin.com/5127313/ancient-journa...off-of-his-lawn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jwest27 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Here's a somewhat interesting list of who voted for who. Or at least, who they say they voted for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I guess being the all-time 90s hit leader (Mark Grace) doesn't get you much Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Jay Bell 2 0.4% Really? I mean, why bother? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Just in case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I think that's just local sportswriters voting for a guy as a favour. I remember one pitcher a few years ago campaigned for one vote...and got it. Someone's got to find the al v. frigid Jim Rice debates. Great stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy no nose 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I really haven't paid any attention to the whole Jim Rice debate, but someone please explain the differences that get Rice 76% and Parker only 15%. The biggest difference I can find is that one of them won 2 World Series titles and 3 Gold Gloves and that one is Dave Parker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 It's useless to try and explain, jimmy. There really is no discernible argument for Rice to be in the Hall, at least compared to both his peers and the others that are already enshrined. He was barely a blip on the radar five years after he retired, but for some unexplainable reason, his myth has grown in the past fifteen years. He was a popular player on a good team for one of baseball's most identifiable franchises. That's why there has been a push to get him in. That's why Tim Raines will eventually be lost to history and Rice gets in. Sad but true. The argument, as it goes, is that Rice was the most feared hitter in his era, with a peak that is hall-worthy. Fact is, the the numbers just don't support that. He racked up good counting stats for a few years in a hitter's park. He didn't run or field all that well and he dropped off a cliff late in his career. He had a massive three year run in the '70s, but it wasn't all that special, at least in terms of the Hall of Fame. Check this: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1150 - Sheehan does a better job than I could summing it up That inevitability is why the debate over Rice’s candidacy, so fierce a year ago, has been quiet this time around. The hagiographers, the storytellers, the mythmakers…they’ve won. Those who would argue the objective standards have lost. Once Rice advanced to within a handful of votes and a spot as the leading returning vote getter, it was clear that he would cross the line this time around, making a debate over his candidacy pointless. All of the points made last year, and the year prior, and the year before that are just as valid, just as winning as they have always been. All of the comparisons of Rice to Hall members, and those left out, and his peers on the ballot still show him to fall below the line. Nevertheless, the idea that Rice was the “most feared” hitter of his era, a notion that is both unproven and unprovable, has carried the day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I think that's just local sportswriters voting for a guy as a favour. I remember one pitcher a few years ago campaigned for one vote...and got it. That was Jim Deshaies. I remember going to his website, www.putjdinthehall.com. I am absolutely stunned that Tim Raines is probably not going to make the Hall of Fame. He was one of the three best players from my childhood (keeping in mind that I started following baseball around 83-84, after Mike Schmidt started to decline). Yet Jim Rice was somehow championed into the Hall. I loved these lines from Rob Neyer's latest blog entry...sums it up perfectly: The thing is done. Now we can stop talking about Jim Rice, until a respectful period has passed and we can simply add him to the list of good players -- Bruce Sutter, Catfish Hunter, and Orlando Cepeda come to mind -- who don't really belong in the Hall of Fame, but are there anyway. As I wrote earlier this morning, the election of Rice will do little to lower the standards of the institution, as it's unlikely that players like Dave Parker, Albert Belle, Dick Allen, and big Frank Howard will now be knocking on the Coop's door (even though, it should be said, all of them were at least Rice's equal). Of course, Andre Dawson may soon join that list, as he inched up again this year, to 67 percent. Meanwhile, his old teammate Tim Raines is stuck at 22 percent, which quite frankly might be the single most embarrassing number in the history of Hall of Fame voting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 In case anyone was wondering the biggest names to join next year's ballot are Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, and Fred McGriff. Out of the four I think only Alomar has a shot next year but I don't think he'll get in on the first ballot. Larkin should get in at some point but the lack of support of Alan Trammell over the years makes me doubt that will happen. Jay Bell 2 0.4% Really? I mean, why bother? Pedro Gomez was one of them. Some writers do always vote ten players and if they want to throw in someone who was a favorite of there's that is fine. Gomez though had three open spots on his ballot yet elected to pick Bell over the likes Blyleven, Raines, and McGwire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 How did John Burkett not make the ballot, yet Ron Gant did? This is blantant homerism, but Crime Dog should be in the HOF. I wonder how much Alomar shitting the bed when he was traded to NY will hurt him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 In case anyone was wondering the biggest names to join next year's ballot are Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, and Fred McGriff. Out of the four I think only Alomar has a shot next year but I don't think he'll get in on the first ballot. Really? He's a shoo-in in my mind. Do you think the spitting incident will keep him out next year? Seems kind of silly in light of all the guys not getting in because of PEDs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 This is blantant homerism, but Crime Dog should be in the HOF. I don't think it's homerism at all. McGriff is borderline, but I could see him in the Hall. That magical 500 HR is just out of reach, but otherwise the numbers are strong. He's not a lock, but if you squint hard enough you could probably put him in. What will hurt him is playing in the PED era, where the power numbers don't look as good and the contemporaries were so over-the-top that he doesn't seem that special. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 This is blantant homerism, but Crime Dog should be in the HOF. I don't think it's homerism at all. McGriff is borderline, but I could see him in the Hall. That magical 500 HR is just out of reach, but otherwise the numbers are strong. He's not a lock, but if you squint hard enough you could probably put him in. What will hurt him is playing in the PED era, where the power numbers don't look as good and the contemporaries were so over-the-top that he doesn't seem that special. It was more homerism b/c I'm not going to argue whether his stats merit it or not- he's my favourite Braves hitter. The guy had a streak of 30 HR seasons, that's pretty impressive. Do you think the spitting incident will keep him out next year? Given that he and the ump became good friends, I don't think so. Besides the spitting incident, wasn't Alomar known for being kind of a dick? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Given that he and the ump became good friends, I don't think so. Besides the spitting incident, wasn't Alomar known for being kind of a dick? Only near the end of his career, I think. He was always known as a good teammate when I watched him in Toronto. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Yeah, Jim Rice getting into the Hall of Fame is quite maddening. I may expand a bit on that later. What's truly infuriating is the lack of support for Tim Raines, and that's been noted as well. Fred McGriff next year is such a hard case that even I haven't made up my mind yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YourKock'sReallyGreat 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 What is stopping the love for Raines? Is it because for the majority of his career that he played on teams not as good as what Henderson played for? Is it because his #'s were only 80,85 percent as good as Rickey's? Is it because once he hit 35 until the end he didn't play as much as Rickey did? During both of their prime which lasted for plenty years for each, if Rickey was a 10, Raines was a 9.5. As a Yankees fan it was a true pleasure to watch Raines play in LF at the start of the late 90's Yankees dynasty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xena Asomugha 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Jim Rice 412 76.4% Tim Raines 122 22.6% The Baseball HOF committee hasn't improved since Rabbit Maranville was elected due to his 52 Jocularity Over Replacement Player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YourKock'sReallyGreat 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Congrats to Rickey Henderson as well. It's funny to think that in the mid to late 80's the Yankees had two future Hall of Famers in the outfield. How long is Big Mac going to be punished for? I wonder how he feels since he has been found guilty in the court of public opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 What is stopping the love for Raines? Is it because for the majority of his career that he played on teams not as good as what Henderson played for? Is it because his #'s were only 80,85 percent as good as Rickey's? Is it because once he hit 35 until the end he didn't play as much as Rickey did? During both of their prime which lasted for plenty years for each, if Rickey was a 10, Raines was a 9.5. As a Yankees fan it was a true pleasure to watch Raines play in LF at the start of the late 90's Yankees dynasty. 1. So much of his career peak was frontloaded. He hung on for a full decade past his prime. 2. He only cleared 150 games played once after 1986. It's a shame that Raines' best statistic does not appear on baseball-reference.com. He retired as the greatest percentage basestealer of all time, with 84%. Carlos Beltran has 88% now, but that could come down as Beltran declines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianGuitarist 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2009 I'm a little late to the party, but one of my New Year's Resolutions was to make the leap from Blue Jays fan to Baseball Fan. This is a good way to start, but sorry if we've beaten this horse: Why isn't Andre Dawson in yet? He did play five seasons longer, but his numbers are as good as Rice's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
