RavishingRickRudo

You know what's funny? Both Kane and Randy Orton -The only two challengers outside HHH/HBK- became #1 contenders through battle royales.

I have two definitions for art: 1. Something that tells a story (Film, Song, Lit, Theatre) 2. Something that takes high skill to perform (martial arts) Wrestling can do both. However, if a wrestling match is performed poorly and does not tell a story (with intent to tell that story), it isn't art. And I don't think I've ever hugged Curry, have I?

"So I turned the TV to Off the Record yesterday and.." "... Ric Flair was on?" "Yeah, and boy does he hate Bret Hart" "Yeah he does" "I mean, he really hates him. He said some really harsh stuff." "Yeah, Bret wrote on his website some harsh stuff about Flair after Flair bashed him in his book" "And does he ever like McMahon" *Big Laugh* "What?" "It's so true" - a convo between me and the old man about 2 minutes ago.

What It sounds like you're making excuses for Benoit ahead of time. So after his reign is over, you can say "oh it wasn't Benoit's fault he was a weak champion, it was Triple H's!" even though Triple H lost to Benoit in 4 matches and tapped out three times to him. Dude, I've been "making excuses" for Benoit since December 2003 - before he even had a shot at the title, let alone the title itself. I fear(ed) people calling Benoit a failure as champion, because I believe that he could be a great champion. There are groups of people who have said in the past that Benoit would either never be champion or be a bad champion because he lacked the character, charisma, and promo skilled needed for the position. I think his character is strong, that his charisma is unique, and that his promos are good enough to carry the load. Does that mean he's the Rock? No. He doesn't have to be - he can be Chris Benoit. The WWE, however, isn't giving him a real chance at becoming a great champ - to live up to that potential. They "protect" him by not giving him those bigtime promos, or putting the focus on him where his personality and character would have to sustain fan interest. In that way, they've set him up for mediocrity. He really hasn't done anything noteworthy as champ - and anything he has done has been related to HHH and HHH has been the more important figure. What did those 4 losses and 3 tap outs do for Benoit, anyways? What was their impact? You can list off all the shit Benoit has done to HHH till you're blue in the hands, until you explain how they have benefited Benoit they don't hold any significance. Has Benoit been getting a better reception? I don't think so. I think he was better received vs. Angle and Lesnar. He doesn't get "the superstar pop" because he isn't treated like a superstar.

Iggy That's a good point, in totally disproving what RRR was saying. No, it's a horrible point that doesn't "totally disprove" anything that I've said. I gave an example of what would "disprove" my point in Savage/Steamboat, and even then it doesn't "totally disprove" it because the majority of memorable matches still have clean and conclusive finishes, which is part of the reason why they're memorable in the first place. If you compare it to the Austin/Hart feud, they both have a decisive winner at WM. Benoit made HHH submit clean in the middle of the ring (even if HBK was involved in the match), and Hart made Austin submit clean in the middle of the ring (even if Austin did pass out from the pain instead of tapping). _This_ is a pretty good point. BUT, you're missing the second half of _my_ point, though. HHH/Shawn/Benoit wasn't conclusive of anything besides "when HHH/Shawn/Benoit wrestle in the same ring, Benoit wins". It didn't answer each individual question which is _much_ more important because 1 on 1 is the purist of competition. They continued feuding after the Mania match, and Austin being better on the mic got more time to speak, even if Bret was still regarded as the better wrestler. The only real difference was that since Austin was the less established star at the time, he actually got a victory as the feud progressed (by DQ at Revenge of the Taker), and he ended up getting credit for taking Bret out. The finish concluded Hart as a face and Austin as a heel and started a whole new era. The question of that match was clearly answered given the finish - Austin would never tap, so the hitmans victory is hollow. Hart became Austin in that match and betrayed his virtuous beliefs - the penalty for that betrayal is the hollow victory and a crowd turning. Austin stayed true to himself, he never tapped, and the reward was respect and admiration of the fans. The feud continued, but it was forever changed. My whole problem with DQ finishes is that it doesn't really change anything. Meanwhile, since Benoit is less established in this feud, Trips has been doing everything he can to put Benoit over, even if it means that he doesn't get a token victory to protect his heat. HHH hasn't been doing everything - he hasn't stepped down from the top position for Benoit - which is the INTEGRAL part of losing the title. He can do all the jobs in the world, as long as those jobs don't mean anything, it doesn't do anything for Benoit.

Let's see, two weeks ago RAW ends with an Evolution 4-on-1 beatdown of Eugene. what do you think? What, a Eugene post-match attack to get back his heat and set up the match? Or the typical 3 on 1 beatdown happens after the match? You didn't even come close to answering or countering my point. Since it's obvious you _can't_ make an on-topic rebuttal, I'll move on to your red herring. Eugene could have gotten his revenge next week when a down-and-beaten HHH hits rock bottom. HHH sees Orton become #1 contender, Benoit is better than him, and a retard has his number. That all could be summed up in 2 segments and he wouldn't be the focus of the show and Benoit/Orton could because Benoit is the champ - he "beat" HHH - so he should be more important to the storyline. See what I did? I responded to your distraction, countered it effectively, and brought it all back to my original point. Me = Good at this. You = Bad at this. And guess what, he ALREADY LOST. ....In a match/feud that very few will remember, let alone remember in a good light. And guess what? You continue to airball on my points. Either actually respond to my points or just stop responding cause you're wasting my time. and I'm not the one crying like a little bitch here either. Can I get you a tampon? No, you can get me some intelligent conversation. Wait, sorry, you can't. And we're talking Wrestlemania matches in all three, as opposed to RAW. They were the ones that came to me at the time, which is the whole point of my, well, point. They were memorable. Had they had any "funny business" in them, I doubt they would have been as successful. Hell, lemme do you a solid - Savage/Steamboat from WM 3 - the same card as Hogan/Andre - had interference and it is still regarded in a special light. That's an actual counter-point. Shit, this is a one-man debate. I can take your position better than you can, even if I completely disagree with it. And what 'inaction' would that be? Inaction - ie: doing nothing with him. Rather than having him in multiple segments and be the focus of the show, they have him in a reduced role. Sure, that "saves" Benoit from acting and potentially looking like a goof in silly segments, but it makes him look irrelevant as well. The champion should never be irrelvant - so how does that make Benoit look as champion? Actually if you wanna go there it was Eugene jumping up and down and mocking him and HHH looking like a total bitch. But hey as long as you're on TV! HHH has looked like a total bitch before - it's nothing new. It has happened many times before and it will happen many times after. With Scott Steiner and those retarded "challenges" HHH looked very silly. In-the-end, however, it will be Eugene that'll look like the bitch when he's wrestling on Heat and HHH is still main eventing - much like Steiner was. HHH's best attribute is not his promos or ring work, it's knowing his characters limits and knowing how to make wins and losses irrelevant (the key is -much like what you have done throughout this discusssion- to divert attention.) He lost to Dvon and Test before and that did nothing for them and did nothing to hurt him - it was a calculated risk. I don't like the guy, but I recognize his skill in doing so much while actually doing nothing-at-all; quite masterful. Yeah I know, how dare a World Champion in WWE actually, gasp, wrestle? perish the thought! HHH didn't wrestle close to the same schedule as Benoit does when he was champ. I perish the thought of the World Champion being the top star on house shows only; infront of 2000 fans rather than 2 million. *snip* BTW are you supposed to be posing as a HHH or a Benoit fanboy (I'd say Democrat with all your errant bitching but I'll save it for CE) here? Can't be Benoit with all the shots you've taken at him, can't be HHH with all your whiny complaints of him getting TV time. Benoit is in my top 5 favourite wrestlers and I think HHH is hilarious. I'm like 75% fanboy of Benoit, because I'll overlook something from him most of the time, but that 25% -like Vengeance 03- I can't. That was a bad match and Benoit's spotty nature got the best of him. HHH is a smark, his comments like (when a mic breaks) "Goldberg must have made this mic, cause it doesn't work well either" gets a big pop from me and when he said "I'm gonna kill him!" (about Eugene), that was one of my favourite moments of the year. I don't see myself as a HHHater, because I don't hate HHH - I just think he has control over his storylines (and others' if he chooses) and uses that control in a way that benefits him only. When circumstances like that arises, I call em the way I see em. It just happens to happen a lot, so it appears that I hate a guy who I'd jump at the chance to discuss wrestling with. To people who don't see him in that light, it certainly appears that I hate him because they -usually HHH fans- can't see the intricaces of his politiking, and tend to defend him on it. Which is ironic, cause you'd think a HHH fan would notice it more and be proud that one of their favourite wrestlers has pull.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT~! (via WO.com) Pride just announced six of the seven scheduled matches for the 8/15 show at the Saitama Super Arena: *Wanderlei Silva vs. Yuki Kondo *Mirko Cro Cop vs. Alexander Emelianenko *Ron Waterman vs. Kevin Randleman Grand Prix semifinals Fedor Emelianenko vs. Naoya Ogawa Sergei Kharitonov vs. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Winners meet in the main event. Bracketing was a surprise. *Blows load*

I think HHH "let" Benoit hold the title for so long because Benoit is a non-threat. Benoit can be controlled. It's not like a Guerrero, or Cena, or Austin-thing where it blows-up and could potentially get "big". Benoit-as-champ is "safe". HHH is the all-star quarterback, the title is the head cheerleader, and Benoit is the captain of the chessclub. HHH needs someone to take the title to the dance while he goes away without having any "funny business" crop-up; so Benoit shows up in his striped tux and $2 corsage thinking that he's finally getting his shot.

Yeah because Benoit had already, you know, taken care of business. Yeah let's get a motorcade and follow him back to the lockerroom or have a big WM-type celebration (sans Eddie) again! How, exactly, is this relevant to my point of Eugene/HHH upstaging Benoits win? When'd that happen, you mean when Kane got all pissy after he lost to Benoit, chokeslammed him, was about to choke Lita out and Benoit comes back and nails him with the belt? Yeah what a non-factor. Again, relevancy? Kane spent more time focusing on Lita than on the World Champ. The World Champ (and title) should be priority #1. As such, it makes the champ -in this case Benoit- important. This goes back to the Ironman point. When the champ is not the primary focus, it makes him _not_ important. What's the point of being the champ if you are not important? What does that belt mean? That "he's the best"? But if "being the best" is not presented as important, then what good is it? "If a tree falls..." And you still post here........... And here you are. And what would that be? That Benoit can't beat HHH? We've seen it what, three times now? And HHH has beaten Benoit exactly HOW many times? No Mercy 00 comes to mind. Around the time Benoit debuted in the WWF HHH beat him as well. I recall one more time, but nothing specific jumps out. So that'd be 3. And we've seen him beat HHH -in singles- twice now. Both with the help of Eugene. He also beat HHH in 3 ways, which do not have the same impact as singles. And, the times when HHH beat Benoit, Benoit went significantly down the card. What happens when Benoit beats HHH? Anyways, this is all irrelevant to my actual point (strike 3 - you aren't very good at this.) The point was - "what if Evolution didn't get involved" is the question. Title matches of a certain magnitude are supposed to make you wonder "Could the challenger -on his best day- beat the Champ on his?". The ironman match should have established that, but it didn't. Hey Ric Flair never beat Lex Luger without heel cheating either, does the question still linger 16 years later? Hogan beat Andre straight-up. Hart beat Austin straight-up. Warrior beat Hogan straight up. Matches that leave an impression -matches that have weight- tend to be clear of any lingering questions. And the world title match with Benoit and Orton at Summerslam. I didn't hear RAW go off the air with Ross yelling "BENOIT! ORTON! WORLD TITLE! SUMMERSLAM!", no it was more like "THE GAME HAS GOTTEN WHAT HE DESERVES AND IT'S THANKS TO EUGENE!". Benoit/Orton wasn't the focus _at all_. Let's see, Benoit glared at the defeated HHH, nodded at Eugene, and left. Yeah looked like a chump to me. Did I say "chump"? I said "insignificant". Benoit looking like a chump would imply direct harm - say, having him walk HHHs dog. Insignificant is more indirect harm where inaction is incredibly harmful to his role as champion. And how exactly was THE HHH getting his "glory-time", lying in defeat after being beaten down by Eugene, looking like he was swallowing cum in the process? Some glory........... He was the focus. The attention was on him. His loss was more important than Benoits win. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, did your parents use you as a sex sandwich as a child as well? That might explain the frustration. No, the "frustration" comes from dumb fucks who are happy that "benoit has the title" even if "the title" hasn't done anything for him except make him look silly carrying it with that grin on his face and work longer matches on house shows. How people see this lacklustre and unremarkable title reign as being good is mindblowing. Also, posters who completely miss the point also are very annoying (mmm redundant). I don't want to point out any posters around here who -in the span of one post- was able to air-ball 4 times, but the humour of it goes away pretty quickly.

Austin was the focus of the shows, though. He was an integral part to the storylines and show. If Benoit missed a Raw or two, would it even matter?

As for Benoit not getting as much TV time as HHH, it's not that he's treated as less important, it's just that he has a different gimmick. Yeah, that's it. The camera and the announcers going on and on about Eugene and HHH and completely forgetting about Benoit's supposed "big win" relates to their gimmicks. Benoit's last (coughONLY) non-HHH feud (Kane) getting horrible billing and playing second fiddle to LITA is gimmicks. Benoit never being the central focus of the show while HHH is always the focus is because of their gimmicks. Here's a gimmick for you.... WORLD CHAMPION. This board is fucking retarded. The run-in isn't my problem (well, it is *a* problem. It completely made the last 50 minutes worthless. What people don't get about run-ins is that it leaves a question about the match - in building a feud, this can be a good thing. The Ironman match wasn't building HHH/Benoit, it was blowing it off. There is no sense of finality when there's a run-in because typically the run ins "leave something open".), the problem is how that run-in totally shifted the focus AWAY from Benoit and ON TO Eugene and HHH. The winner of the match - the guy who busted his ass for 60 minutes and has been working house show after house show like a fucking champ should - still has to take a seat and let the HHH get his glory-time. It was fucking blatent on RAW that I would have thought people (95% of this board, it seems) would have gotten the message that "Benoit is champ" means nothing because it's presented as nothing. But here we are, Benoit is still insignificant and people couldn't be happier. Motherfucks.

At the start of the show the Divas got a pretty big pop - editing, truth, or "first thing on the show" pop?

What was the last impression the WWE tried to impart on its fans? Was it Benoit winning and proving his worth as champion or was it HHH being screwed by Eugene?

It's really odd how some people are looking at this as a good thing. Benoit and HHH have been "feuding" since Royal Rumble; which is about 6 1/2 months (3 PPVs) and this was their blow-off and it couldn't even do better than average. Oh, I forgot, the actual sense of heat between HHH and Benoit couldn't warm a hotdog and they didn't give any reason to watch the match. Speaking of cold and meaningless, hows about that DIVA search?

Krusty

Call it... "Transactions"

Ok, the Serenity panel from Comicon has gone down and there is a TON of stuff to get to. But fuck all that stuff fer now... http://mattandodile.com/cc_sd2004/7%2025%202004%20353.jpg "Twabbawho?"

UFC 28 airs on TSN tonight: 1 Ben Earwood vs. Chris Lytle 2 Mark Hughes vs. Alex Stiebling 3 Jens Pulver vs. John Lewis 4 Andrei Arlovski vs. Aaron Brink 5 Josh Barnett vs. Gan McGee 6 Renato Sobral vs. Maurice Smith 7 Randy Couture vs. Kevin Randleman

Does it matter if HHH has the title or not? He's still the star of the show. I though the Benoit reign would have proven that who has the title doesn't matter as-long-as HHH is the focus of the show.

Holy Crap, I totally forgot about Angel shutting the doors on WR&H. At the time, that was like "DID HE JUST DO THAT??!?". Fucking awesome stuff. You won't see that on other shows. The way they had WR&H playing around with Darla and Angel and thinking they had full control over the situation. Thinking that they held the leash. These rich humans playing with fire and getting burned. How smug they were sitting in the basement with their wine tasting and the fear that filled the room and the powerlessness from the realization that they weren't in control - they never were -; you can't see that on other shows because other shows wouldn't let their hero let those people die. And the Lindsey thing... I read the spoilers. I read it. I still was fucking shocked when I saw it. So cold. So very cold.

The New Japan story is one of my favourite things about Benoit. I like the fact that he's one of the few North Americans who have completed the training. They're putting a good amount of focus on that aspect and I'm so fucking happy they put some Japan matches on the DVD to SHOW Benoit in Japan, rather than just tossing it out. Now it will have meaning (hopefully) to the fans who watch it who don't "know" how important that is. To have success in all these different promotionss, with different fans, with different wrestlers, and in different styles. God I want this DVD.

I loved the first episode of SL2. I have no idea when it's on so I haven't been able to catch another full episode, but Traci's quest to see Rons shlong and Rons attraction to Tammy Faye and Vanilla Ices absolute madness is so fucking great. SL3 trumps them all though with Dave Coulier.

The only good thing I can see happening with Orton winning the title is the dynamic with HHH. That would probably be the most interesting thing to happen to HHH in a long, long, looooong time - if Orton were to have his gold and he lost to a retard.

Jewel Staite... Just may be... the most perfect woman in the world... (Does that make sense? Is there something "more" perfect than perfect that would be "most" perfect?) BLOG~! ACTIVATE! (favourite parts HLted) Jewel Staite’s Blog Updated From Users.ev1.net - 2004-07-23rd 23 July 2004 We are officially "more than half way" to finishing "Serenity". It’s unbelievable that time is flying by this fast. And it’s even more unbelievable that I still don’t know my way around the Universal lot. I know where the Starbucks is, though. And I know exactly how much time it takes to get from my house to the front door of my trailer in the morning. I’ve timed this so I can sleep in as much as possible, which is kind of sad and stupid, because another eight minutes of sleep really doesn’t make any kind of difference at all. But you know what does? Snapple. I put a little bug in somebody’s ear that I loved me an ice-cold lemon iced tea Snapple every once in a while, and someone planted two cases of the stuff in my trailer. So now I have an addiction. I have to drink all of it before the shoot is over, or all of those lovely little Snapple’s will go to waste. The dailies have been looking great so far. Every lunch hour, the crew and the cast (the ones that can stand to watch themselves on screen, that is) scurry into the viewing theatre next to our stage to see what kind of magic we’ve created the day before. They have lunch there for us, so we pile our plates in a hurry, and then settle into our seats to watch the footage. Problem is, once the lights go out, it is BLACK in there, and you can’t see what kind of forkful you’re getting, so it’s always a surprise what lands in your mouth. I ate my butter packet yesterday, a nice big mouthful of foil and lard. So now I inhale my food before the lights go down and then suffer through indigestion for the rest of the lunch hour. Good times! This Sunday is ComiCon, which we’re all very excited about. Universal is flying us out there bright and early, and we’re spending the day doing a panel and an autograph session. We’ve never done anything as a whole and complete cast convention- wise, so it’ll be very cool. I’ve also confirmed my attendance at DragonCon during labor day weekend. Matty’s birthday is September 4th, so his birthday party will have to be postponed until we come back. We’ve never been to Georgia, so we’re pretty excited. People on the Firefly/Serenity message boards are still chattering about my weight. I don’t look skinnier. Just older. Because I am. And since I’m in my twenties, it’s hard for me to keep weight on. I feel happy though, and healthy. When I’m hungry I eat, and when I’m full I stop. It’s a perfect existance. The only times I go overboard is if there are cheeseburgers around, and the only times I go under-board is when there’s corn or Thai food around. I hate corn and I hate Thai food. Hate. Passionately. But no, they’re not adding weight to me in CGI, and no, Joss isn’t force-feeding me every day at the craft service table. Kaylee will look like Jewel (unfortunately? fortunately?) because that’s who’s playing her. Thank God. PS I saw I, Robot with Mr. Tudyk himself the other day and LOOOVED it. Yay, Alan! Jewel ---------------- And now, CHRIS BUCKANANANNANAANANNA....AN BLOGANANANNANANAN Chris Buchanan Posts At The Official ’Serenity’ Blog From Serenitymovie.com - 2004-07-23rd July 22, 2004 - Thanks again for all your support! Hellloooo, Browncoats! For those of you who don’t know me, I’m Chris Buchanan, right hand man to Joss (which is paradoxical because he’s actually left-handed) and one of the producers of the BDM. I’m also known as "Affable Chap" on the OB. And my mom still calls me "Christopher" when I’m in trouble. It’s great to be guest hosting the official SERENITY blog whilst Dusty sorts out some personal legal issues that have arisen here on the Universal lot. I’m amazed by the extent that the Patriot Act comes into play when someone accidentally "borrows" a big star’s golf cart. I also had no idea that Universal had such a secure "detention facility" as part of their studio tour. Live and learn, I guess. The past week has been another long week of flying for the cast and crew alike on our beloved ship, SERENITY. I could describe in detail the ins and outs of the latest version of our little Firefly-class boat, but I think you’ll want to wait and see the epic tour of SERENITY Joss shot on Super 35 instead. I’ll just give you some impressionistic snippets from the set: Things heard: "SUMMER!" Jurassic Park theme. Over and over and over. "I did not murder him" Nathan singing. Cast members muttering in Chinese. Ongoing political debate between certain unnamed cast members. A bunch of cheers as we screened our first clip of the movie. Things seen: Our crew gathered around the wooden table in the galley, just like old times. Tight pants. (No, not just those on the Captain.) The beginnings of a wicked cool new saloon. Ice Cream. Blue Sun hooch. Stars, smoke and fire. An extremely buff, shirtless crew member working on the ship. Visitors to the set with mouths agog and the magnitude and beauty of our boat. Every day when I go on set, it really brings home the fact that we’ve kept SERENITY off the scrap heap and put her back in the black where she belongs. And by "we" I mean all of you, too. Thanks again for all of your support! As a small gesture of fan payback, we are marking the launch of official SERENITY marketing and promotional efforts with a very special panel at this weekend’s Comic-Con in San Diego, CA. I wish we could simulcast the entire thing worldwide on the Internet, but we can’t, so you’ll have to rely on fellow Browncoats to spread the word. And, trust me; you’ll want to hear it all! For those of you in the San Diego area this weekend, Joss wanted to make sure you had the pertinent details of his appearance at Comic-Con this coming Sunday with the entire cast of the show: What: Joss Whedon/SERENITY panel When: Sunday July 25th, 1-2pm Where: Room 20 Who: Joss, Nathan, Gina, Adam, Summer, Jewel, Ron, Alan, Sean, Morena We will also be screening the first footage from SERENITY shown anywhere! The panel will be followed by a signing session in room 28DE, where there will be give-aways for those of you interested. (Like you’re not interested!) I’ll be there, too, with our editor, Lisa Lassek, and our visual effects wizard, Loni Peristere and our respective posses. Stop by and say "hi." Best, Buchanan PS: Good news for Dusty, Nathan just sent over a stack of signed photos to the "tour" department. Apparently, they trade just like currency in parts of Universal City. Fingers crossed, DB will be back soon.

Austin rewrote the rules on what a face can and can't do. If Eugene was of greater face value than those faces he attacked, then the crowd would have been receptive to it.