RavishingRickRudo

The HHH/Eugene story is not over. The beatdown was simply the end of one stage of their dealings, and the beginning of another. HHH/Eugene, for all of the focus put on it, was a sidestory to Benoit/HHH. Eugene was a tool to *cough* advance HHH's character (the cough there was because "HHH is a bad man" was established a long, long time ago and didn't need it). In this possibility, Eugene/HHH would be a _feud_, which it wasn't before. Thus making it a different entity. Granted, it is a feud with some backstory, but a feud is composed of certain things that couldn't be established in 3 weeks. Or, could be established, but would be very poorly done. The crap about Orton/Benoit "blurring the divisions"is just that- crap. This isn't Pride where there are clearly defined mid card and upper card barriers in WWE shows any more. Legitimizing and solidifying each division has long-term benefits in said division. There is no "rites of passage" anymore in the WWE, and that's a problem that can hurt them when trying to create new stars. What makes Orton so good that he can jump a division in a few weeks? Why should I believe that Orton is now a viable contender for Benoit even when he lost twice against Edge - someone who is lower ranked than Benoit? This is just common sense, and is certainly not "crap". I hope other MMA fans got a few giggles out of the PRIDE comment, cause it was really funny. The only things to consider when planning out a ME match at a PPV are: 1.) Will this make money? 2.) How will this fit in with our long term plans? True and not-so-true. If a match or feud doesn't make sense, no matter how much money it could make, it can end up hurting more than it can help depending on how high-profile it is. If Orton loses, then does that make him a failure? And even worse, if he wins, does that make him a fluke and devalues the title because a midcarder holds the belt? What helps give matches their "value"? Why do fans want to pay to see two guys wrestle each other? I think a well-built, legitimate contender in Orton would be more valuable than a shot-up-the-card Orton. I like the idea of the two "best" wrestlers competing for the title. There's a certain excitement that is created by the notion that you're watching something that has meaning. One guy will win, one guy will lose; you will find out who the true "best" is. But that's me. I don't like "He interfered in my match therefore is my biggest challenge"-type storylines that this will probably be. Since SS will have 4 matches that could be "draws" (UT/JBL, HHH/Eugene, Benoit/Orton, and Eddie/Angle) they don't even have to worry from a financial aspect either. Angle and Eddie aren't draws (Angle generally isn't, and Eddie has lost a lot of steam), UT/JBL aren't draws (though IMO it's the most interesting match out of the 4), Eugene hasn't been a proven PPV draw, and Orton/Benoit is such an unlikely match I can't see how you'd consider it a draw. Those 4 matches may combine to be a "draw" if one would consider SS a "super card", but I don't really see it. This is really a neglible point, though, as the main point is "Orton/Benoit" is not there to make money. In terms of character development, I think a long-term, meaningful Orton/Benoit feud would further him, but not a quickie like this. If they had Orton break Benoit's arm in a tag match, have Benoit out for a few weeks and Orton calling himself "the crippler" or "the best technical wrestler", then there'd be something for him there that makes sense and a reason for Benoit to fight him. Now is the PERFECT time. Orton's been playing with the big boys for a WHILE now (since Unforgiven 03, really), and is as a solid a choice for number one contender as any you're likely to find. A solid choice for #3 contender. Not #1. Who has he beaten? What has he done? Explain to me how I should accept him in a title match? That's exactly what the WWE has to do, and since you believe it, it should be easy. I'd say if it's THAT big of a deal give him a clean pin over benoit in the weeks leading up to SS to give him Main Event credibility. To make this timeline, you'd have... Week 1: Orton interferes in the Ironman match and pisses Benoit off. Week 2: Orton vs. Benoit and Orton wins. A match is made. Week 3: Orton cuts a promo on Benoit, Benoit puts Orton in the crossface. That is a really shitty build and is certainly not "the perfect time" for building Orton into World Championship Main Event Calibre material. He's obviously being built as the next top guy of the company, and the fans obviously buy into it. I think there's a difference between "next top guy" and "next top challenger to HHH". That's not to say that Orton won't be a top guy in the next few years, but I don't see him being a true Main Eventer this year (that being, constantly in the ME like HHH, rather than occasionally like Angle or Cena). As for the fans "buying into it", I don't think it's as "obvious" as you say it is. I'm not an Orton hater, but I think you're putting him in a different light than he really is in. The only reason not to would be that Orton would likely outpop Benoit, which isn't going to happen in Canada anyway. You're already 'discussing' this, but this just seems like baiting (to) me. "Out popping"/"Splitting a crowd" with an incredibly bland and uninspired Edge on a PPV isn't exactly Austin/Hart territory and is certainly not Hogan/Rock level. Benoit is hard to get people to boo against and is stiff enough and bumps well enough to earn and keep the crowds respect. Orton -in terms of stiffness- can't even match it and against Benoit it's obvious. Fans would pop for his stooging and that's it. The comebacks and the finish they'd be behind Benoit.

Eugene and HHH has been building for a long time now, so don't give me this 3 weeks to build it bullshit. "HHH manipulates Eugene" has been building for a long time now and concluded with HHH beating up Eugene. Eugene wasn't a player, he wasn't a main eventer; he was a device. He was used to make HHH look "bad". The storyline that went on before and the storyline that (would) go on now are two different entities. The transition between the two and the believibility of Eugene in a role beyond that of a tool would take longer to build than 3 weeks. To make the fans believe that "Ooooh that nasty HHH is going to get it now!" would be very hard to do when the one who will be "giving it" is retarded. Randy Orton is not a midcarder, he is a upper mid-carder. And yes it is possible to build a very good fued with Benoit in 3 weeks. The IC title is a midcard belt. Orton held it for 7 months and only recently lost it. In the last few PPVs (starting with Armageddon), with the exception of the last one, Orton was in the middle of the card. There needs to be a buffer feud against a high-ranked wrestler to logically put him in the place of a Main Eventer. Which is why Benoit/Orton after Benoit loses the title on RAW "makes sense" because it 'elevates' Orton rather than having Orton magically "elevated" (granted, I don't like it, but it flows better than Orton jumping up so far in rank in a short period of time).

Both Orton and Eugene are mid-carders, to elevate them into the main event within just 3 weeks is silly. Orton going from IC champ one week to World Title contender in the next completely blurs the line between divisions. It doesn't make sense at all.

I will say that the 2nd last RAW leading up into Summerslam is in San Antonio, so the HBK/Kane match is starting to sound a little more plausible.

A non title match on a card where there are like 8 titles being defended? We all know HHH's hard-on for the "big match", and Eugene is not "Big match" material. I think you are overestimating HHH's involvement with Eugene. HHH uses Eugene to get heat on himself and he already did that. He'll let Eugene (seemingly) get his heat back in a meaningless moment, but that's as far as it will go. Edge has already beaten 2 Evolution members in the past few weeks - it's a very quick pace - and if we are to assume that he'll keep up this pace, then Flair is next and finally HHH. Given the rate at which Edge is going, HHH/Summerslam seems to be the "right spot". I don't see why else they'd run this program this quickly if that wasn't their goal.

They have 3 RAWs until Summerslam. I don't think they'd (re)introduce anyone (besides Eugene) into the mix in that short period of time. They already have storylines built for all those above and that makes more than enough matches at SS. Benjamin and Michaels can be saved for the "Fall Season" at those PPV pushes.

The last Summerslam card that went over 8 matches was Summerslam 2000 (10). Typically, they'd have half the card filled with multi-man matches (tags, 3 ways, 4 ways) and the other half with singles (usually one "special" match, ie: McMahons, non-wrestlers). Here, there are very few multi-man matches and lots of singles. I would almost guess they would make a combination with Regal/Jericho/Eugene/Flair/Batista, but that leaves one man out. Perhaps they could have Regal/Eugene vs. Flair/Batista and have Jericho work a concussion angle and have him interfere after being "suspended" or something lame. That would clear some space for a quick cruiser or womens match. Here's how I'd see it going (in order) Match 1: La Rez vs. Rhyno/Tajiri (Tag titles) (7 minutes) (ends at 8:10) Match 2: Hardy vs. Kane (10 minutes) (8:20) Match 3: Womens Crap (5 minutes) (8:30) Match 4: Smackdown US title match (15 minutes) (8:45) Match 5:Regal/Eugene vs. Flair/Batista (15 minutes) (9:00) Match 6:Eddie vs. Angle (20 minutes) (9:20) Match 7:Dudleys vs. London/Kidman (10 minutes) (9:30) Match 8:Benoit vs. Orton (15 minutes) (9:50) Match 9:Cruiserweight match (10 minutes) (10:00) Match 10:Taker vs. JBL (15 minutes) (10:15) Match 11:HHH vs. Edge (20 minutes) (10:40) (the times won't add up because I leave room for entrances, promos, etc.) Start the show off with a tag match - work the formula and let Tajiri and Rhyno get their spots in. This could possibly be a heat match. Hardy/Kane is debatable at this point, however they'll probably do something with them so Kane can get his win back which'll lead into HBK feud. The crowd should still be hot a half hour in, so throw in the womens match out 3rd so if it bombs it'll bomb early and the crowd'll forget about it for the Cena US match (TO is hot for Cena). It might be risky putting two hot properties (Cena and Eugene, plus Flair... hmmm, I wonder if the TO crowd will hate on him for his Bret comments??) back-to-back, and one could argue that spreading them out would be better, and that's a good argument, I just dunno where to put em. Jericho coming out at the end of that match is a guaranteed crowd pop, so it'd be a good place to put it at the top of the hour. Angle/Eddie would make for a nice "major" match in the middle of the card and give the crowd some rest from the novelties that went on before. The Dudleys match acts as a buffer between the two singles matches. Benoit/Orton with Benoit losing would have the crowd a lil pissed, so the cruiserweight match with some nice highspots following it could get the crowd to forget it for a moment and provide some energy at the top of the hour). Then the two title matches at the end, JBL preferably going over Taker and Edge going over HHH, sending the TO crowd home happy.

I don't think they'd do that with HBK. I'd see that more as a Fall program, since Summerslam is getting kinda rushed and filled up now. Let's look at all the possible matches they have... HHH vs. Edge (title vs. title) Taker vs. JBL Eddie vs. Angle Benoit vs. Orton Batista vs. Jericho (falls count anywhere, prob) Flair vs. Regal/Eugene Dudleys vs. Kidman/London Hardy vs. Kane La Rez vs. Rhyno/Tajiri RAW Diva Crap (another 3 way?) Cruiserweight match (4 way?) The WWE avgs. about 8 matches a show, and this is well over that avg. I don't see where HBK would fit given the amount of time they have.

Because they're all story threads that COULD come into play during the match. But that's not the impression we're left with after RAW. I don't think that's the first thing on everyones minds when they think of the Ironman match. Hell, that wasn't the impression that _I_ got, and I watch the show more closely than most "regular" fans. They needed that extra week to hammer the message home that not only COULD those story threads come into play, but that they WILL. So you have to stay tuned to see what role each man will play in the match. There's A LOT more going on then just Benoit and HHH in this match, perhaps you've noticed. There's several threads involved in the story of this match, that don't need any more build up. Bottom line, the extra week is unnecessary, if anything the week in between would be lame duck, and probobly experience a drop in ratings. I don't think the ratings would drop. Hell, the HBK/Benoit match from 05/03/04 had the "in 2 weeks" where the middle number was the highest one. 05/03/04 3.9 (3.7, 4.1) 04/26/04 4.0 (4.0, 4.1) 04/19/04 3.8 (3.5, 4.0) The extra week isn't for build up - it's to sum up everything that has happened before and will happen next and give the fans the reason to tune in "next week". It's the calm before the storm. Here, there is no calm, there is no perspective, there is just a sense of this big match is being rushed. Plus, your scenario doesn't really add a thing to the match at all. No casual fan's going to sit through the 60 minutes just because someone might interfere. It has a better chance of working than just doing "nothing". It lessens the "risk" of the crowd getting bored (both live crowd and TV viewers). Like I said before, fans want instant gratification -that's why you'll find a whole lot of people tuning in a the last few minutes rather than minute 30- so if you can provide them that with every single ad break, why wouldn't they watch? Each segment of the match (or "most") has a storyline either being resolved or furthered, and meanwhile the match builds up until the end. If this were a PPV match I would be deadset against all this crap, but it's live TV and a match on short-notice and -quite frankly- the match doesn't have a whole lot of importance to it (if HHH wins or loses, it's still the HHH show. Nothing would really change), so there is a pretty big risk of fan disinterest. The WWE was right to go this week and not next, so as to give the most time possible to whatever the ME of SummerSlam will be. That's a lot more important at this point. They weren't "right", because they put themselves in that position in the first place. This is clearly a last minute decision where they held-off on pushing Edge when he returned (really, he should have started right-away in a feud against Orton, and the Foley thing was a perfect "in"), it didn't seem right for him to all-of-a-sudden be mad at the way Evolution was "running things" after having been "back" for weeks/months. Then HHH probably got tired of Rugged Ronnie Benoit, already had his "epic" feud with Shawn Steamboat, and is looking for his Sting in Edge... hmm... maybe he's "Stedge" or "Edging"?? Anywho, The Man called Edge/HHH will have the normal bullshit buildup that HHH always has for his matches, so I don't think it really matters whether he has 1 week to do it or 10 weeks. HHH cuts a 20 minute promo, HHH get's pinned in a tag match, Evolution jumps Edge, HHH and Edge brawl around the arena, HHH loses confidence in himself and Flair tells him "you're the champ!", Bischoff makes a stipulation that will favour HHH and hurt Edge, and JR and King act like they haven't seen this before. They could do that all in one show, or they could carry it beyond Summerslam. They'll probably do both anyways.

. This is brilliant! He can move into the suburbs and mingle with his neighbours - Artie, Jim, Bob, etc.. He can try to start the BBQ in the same way he does his pyro; watch NASCAR and laugh hysterically when there's a crash and someone is on fire; become a soccer coach and chokeslam the refs for a bad call. He could go to PTA meetings or just hang out around kids in a playground to see how they "work" so he can be a better dad. The possibilities are endless.

"Word Up" by Cameo. Do it. That's half serious, too. What mood are you going for? Is it just random clips or are you doing this with a theme in mind? What are you looking to get across?

Angel trying to kill Wes in the hospital. That shocked the fuck outta me.

*head explodes* Jesus Christ that was so brilliant I don't think you realize how insanely, head blowingly brilliant that was. *edit* Wait.. no... I was thinking of Gerbils. My bad. It came *this* close to being the greatest thing ever written by man.

Blockbuster? Sleeping with the Enemy, eh Curry?

Aaron Eckhart in The Core made me want to destroy my television and denounce all forms of entertainment after his shitty work, over-acting and goofy-ass cocksucking grin. But I suppose that's what I get for watching The Core.

Zsasz, how is what you said any different from "HHH will do anything to get the belt"? Most of what you listed falls under the "unsaid" category. Regals place, Benoits injury, Eugenes revenge (and Edge) are all up in the air. Yes, Regal got his shots in on HHH, Benoit got hurt, and Eugene was "run off", but none of that is enforced nor does is it guaranteed to be in the Ironman- which is what that extra week could have been used for. That extra week could have shown Benoit pulling an HBK and taking a move the wrong way in a match and passing out. That gives his injury weight rather than just the idea of "Benoit is going in hurt". That extra week could have had Regal say to Benoit that he'll do anything to ruin HHH's life and that he (benoit) can count on him to be on his side - even after the difference they've had in the past (reference the Benoit DVD). Or maybe have Regal "on the phone" with someone where he says "No, don't come to RAW next week - I'll do it myself. HHH will pay", and that kills two birds with one stone showing Regals determination to involve himself in the match and Eugene coming back. That extra week could have built MUCH more interest in the entire match and how the whole would play out rather than just the last 5 minutes.

But the WWE fan knows that the "good stuff" won't happen at Minute 30, but rather at Minute 55, 56, 57, etc. So why watch Minute 30? This isn't a PPV, so they can afford to change the channel and periodically tune back in to see if anything happened or is happening. Had the WWE given them a sense of "anything can happen at anytime" that would have kept them watching throughout. Every segment needs to give the fan some gratification for watching -as well as a promise for future gratification-, and it won't be pinfalls that'll get them off because pinfalls only matter at the end of the match when the drama heightens and desperation sets in. Hell, what is the story of this match? They've "spent a month building" it, so what is the story? "HHH will do anything to get the belt that Benoit has"? What makes this different from the billion other HHH-centric feuds? Why would there be interest in this match that wouldn't be there for a regular match? With Shawn/Bret, despite being a bit of a snorefest, they had some excellent build with their respective training sessions and approaches to the Ironman match. It gave the match some weight. This? It has nothing to it. Right now mostly everything is unsaid and they wasted an opportunity to grab the fans.

*head explodes* ST PIERRE VS. HUGHES!!!!!!!! UFC 50!!! DUMBEST MOVE EVER!!! I SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATE ROADTRIP!!! AAAAAAAH!!!!

I think it's silly to do a "in one week" thing, because had they done "in two weeks.." they could have built more interest into the match. Last week they could have said "In two weeks HHH vs. Benoit in an Ironman" then this week they could have had Edge, Regal, Eugene (?) state their intentions to help Benoit while Evolution backs HHH. This gives a sense of "I must watch the whole match to see when each guy comes in and helps" rather than "I must watch the last 10 minutes cause that's the only ones that matter" - OR they could have revolved a series of storylines around the match that would play out in the match, thus giving the fans more reasons to watch it in-full. That being said, I think it's pretty clear HHH vs. Edge is what they'll be going into SS with, given how quickly they've set up (a)Edge vs. Evolution and (b)the Ironman match and made the 9pm start time. Had they done the "in two weeks" thing, that would have cut into the more important HHH vs. Edge feud (cause lord knows Benoit is not important, especially since HHH/HBK HIAC got a MUCH bigger blow-off). The 9 o clock start time is important because obviously the winner of the Ironman isn't going to be the last thought in everyones mind; so they're going to end off this "huge raw" with a bang. Given that Edge has Flair and HHH to go, Edge vs. Flair as the last match where Edge beats him and then challenges HHH to a match at Summerslam, seems to be the appropriate "bang", where super-evil heel HHH who-just-celebrated-victory (and who we'll see a lot of throughtout the rest of the show) now gets met with his "biggest challenge" or "worst nightmare". Frying Pan/Fire, and a whole buncha stuff that makes Benoit look irrelevant. I can imagine Benoit/Orton at SS (which was mentioned before, and which I said would happen before Benoit even won the Royal Rumble) where Orton beats the guy HHH had so much trouble with and HHH loses to Edge and Orton begins his take over of Evolution and HHH starts his face turn (that's a lot of "ands"). After that for Benoit? Smackdown, probably.

Stacy Keiblers "I do nothing" gimmick; it's the best thing goin today. Where is she going to show up next??? Will she be Rhynos manager? Perhaps a time keeper? Hey, how about a camera(wo)man? Is that her selling you popcorn?? Look, there she is again talking to Edge! There are so many possibilities and her enthusiasm and (really bad) acting just makes it so good.

*breathes deeply into inhailer* Whew. The Greg/Archie competition for Nicks affections can continue.

The Friends cast got, what, 1 mil an episode? These two got a tenth of that and their ratings IIRC were higher. Does that seem right to you? Granted, Friends was more of a character-driven show, but then-again, I watch CSI for the characters and the relationships as well. It may not be the focus, but I can't identify with a corpse, ya hear? I think this sucks cause I liked both characters and wanted to see the Sara/Grissom relationship completed (they only have been building it for -oh say- 4 seasons) and Nick had good chemistry with Archine and Greg.

I don't think you actually get what I'm saying. I didn't like CO. I thought he posted a lot of crap. You what what? I post lots of crap. I think there is only a handful of posters who DON'T post lots of crap. We're wrestling fans - wrestling is lots of crap. But what is the difference between CO and Me? What is the difference between CO and CWM? What is the difference between CO and you? I want to know what made CO exceptionally different that he got banned, yet a whole host of others have stayed. Because "prolonged stupidity" and "we're glad he's gone" isn't CO-exclusive.

Chaos, CWM, Piss, JSYK, Mr. Rant, Alf, IO, AoO, Yami, and... oh let's see... Max Power. You are all banned because you're stupid and I don't like you. Why do I think you're stupid? Doesn't matter. What is my definition of stupid? Who the fuck are you to ask? Why don't I like you? Shut up, you're stupid and that's all that needs to be said. This is what this board is becoming.

A few days of bitching and moaning before everyone gets over it? Other than that.