The Old School questions thread

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

Shawn face turn killed Nash's heat for good as champ as the marks and smarks both realized Shawn was more entertaining

[cawthon777 0]

who was booking WCW at the time of the (godawfull) Fall Brawl 93 PPV?

I don't know who was boking per say but Bischoff came into power just months before and that show had his finger prints all over it, the Horsemen being jobbed out for example.

[Guest news_gimmick]

I do believe it was Bischoff, as he came into power in February 1993.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

In the mid-90s, WWF magazine had advertisements for a special issue they were doing on cage matches. I seem to remember the picture for the advertisement had Roddy Piper next to one of the old blue-bar cages holding the WWF winged eagle belt.

 

Does anyone remember these ads, or when this even took place? I'm figuring it was something during Flair's run with the belt, but I've never been able to figure it out. I swear I'm not losing my mind.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I remember similar ads in 1992 - specifically in the Summerslam 1992 program - but as advertisements for the Steel Cage video games, playable on your Nintendo Entertainment System, or even your Nintendo Game Boy - now you're playing with power... portable power.

 

It's quite possible there was a magazine planned or ads for it, but as someone who got these magazines all the time in those days, I certainly don't recall it.

[JoeDirt 0]

1. Is there any particular reason why the WWF/E seems to always have done an international tour right after Wrestlemania? It seems to be a yearly tradition.

 

2. Was there any particular reason why March/April was chosen to be the time for Wrestlemania and not any other time of the year? Or is that just how it worked out so they kept going with it?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

1. Is there any particular reason why the WWF/E seems to always have done an international tour right after Wrestlemania? It seems to be a yearly tradition.

Domestic business has usually dropped after Wrestlemania, presumably due to all the major angles peaking. So, they go overseas, where business is usually pretty strong, due to them not running in overseas markets a lot.

[cawthon777 0]

In the mid-90s, WWF magazine had advertisements for a special issue they were doing on cage matches. I seem to remember the picture for the advertisement had Roddy Piper next to one of the old blue-bar cages holding the WWF winged eagle belt.

 

Does anyone remember these ads, or when this even took place? I'm figuring it was something during Flair's run with the belt, but I've never been able to figure it out. I swear I'm not losing my mind.

It was from one of the Piper / Flair cage matches held between Rumble 92 and WrestleMania. No clue about the location (they had more than a dozen of those matches) but it was most likely one of the IC champion vs. world champion non-title matches.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

In the mid-90s, WWF magazine had advertisements for a special issue they were doing on cage matches.  I seem to remember the picture for the advertisement had Roddy Piper next to one of the old blue-bar cages holding the WWF winged eagle belt.

 

Does anyone remember these ads, or when this even took place? I'm figuring it was something during Flair's run with the belt, but I've never been able to figure it out.  I swear I'm not losing my mind.

It was from one of the Piper / Flair cage matches held between Rumble 92 and WrestleMania. No clue about the location (they had more than a dozen of those matches) but it was most likely one of the IC champion vs. world champion non-title matches.

Thanks. I figured that it was from around this time. It was just really weird seeing prominent pics of Piper with the belt, seeing as though he never won it.

[Guest news_gimmick]

I think I had this magazine at one point, but I don't have any of those mags anymore. I wonder if they will make a second edition of the cage matches DVD and include one of these Piper/Flair matches? I think they'd be sweet.

[cawthon777 0]

I think I had this magazine at one point, but I don't have any of those mags anymore. I wonder if they will make a second edition of the cage matches DVD and include one of these Piper/Flair matches? I think they'd be sweet.

Well the only problem with that is that none of the matches took place at TV tapings. And by that time, the MSG / Spectrum / Boston Garden monthly tapings had ended.

 

I know there's a fan cam of their cage match in Worcester, MA in 2/92 but I don't know if the WWF itself has any footage.

[JoeDirt 0]

1) What led up to the Bret/Backlund match at Survivor Series 1994?

 

2) Was it a big shock at the time to the internet community (though it was small) and the "smarts" that Diesel won the title right after SS? Or was it well known that Vince wanted to put the strap on the big man?

 

3) Was there ever any consideration of having Owen Hart take the title and be the guy who got squashed by Diesel?

 

4) So I was looking over the Wrestling Classics message board and I saw a post talking about what the nWo angle was inspired by, and found this:

 

"The NWO angle was inspired by the UWFi vs. New Japan feud that Eric Bischoff saw first-hand."

 

Anybody have any info on this feud and what took place in it that was like the nWo angle?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

1) What led up to the Bret/Backlund match at Survivor Series 1994?

 

2) Was it a big shock at the time to the internet community (though it was small) and the "smarts" that Diesel won the title right after SS? Or was it well known that Vince wanted to put the strap on the big man?

 

3) Was there ever any consideration of having Owen Hart take the title and be the guy who got squashed by Diesel?

 

4) So I was looking over the Wrestling Classics message board and I saw a post talking about what the nWo angle was inspired by, and found this:

 

"The NWO angle was inspired by the UWFi vs. New Japan feud that Eric Bischoff saw first-hand."

 

Anybody have any info on this feud and what took place in it that was like the nWo angle?

1. In July of the 94, Bret Hart defeated Bob Backlund to retain his title on an episode of Superstars. Bob Backlund didn't take this loss very well and locked Bret in the chicken wing for a good length of time, thus turning heel and "snapping", becoming his crazy heel persona. This was put on the backburner as Bret vs Owen was the SummerSlam main event. SummerSlam saw the return of the British Bulldog and Owen lose. Meanwhile, Mr. Backlund was pretty pissed that he never lost his title and that it was his manager, Arnold Skaland, that threw in the towel. I believe Backlund attacked him on a Raw around this time, not sure. Backlund got his title match with Bret with the rules being "throw in the towel", Owen for Backlund (as Owen, fresh of his loss to Bret was still feuding with the family and supported Bob) and Bulldog for Bret. I assume you're aware of how Owen's master plan unfolded that night.

 

2. Even though I was only 13 and still more of a mark than anything, I did read columns in the Detroit News about wrestling that were pretty inside (convicted pedophile ML Curly wrote them with assistance from the Torch and possibly Observer) and I recall nobody saw that coming so soon.

 

3. From what I heard from Curly's hotline / column, the only way Owen would win the title is if he was going to be squashed by the soon to be returning Sid.

 

4. Ask Meltzer / wait for HTQ.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

4) So I was looking over the Wrestling Classics message board and I saw a post talking about what the nWo angle was inspired by, and found this:

 

"The NWO angle was inspired by the UWFi vs. New Japan feud that Eric Bischoff saw first-hand."

 

Anybody have any info on this feud and what took place in it that was like the nWo angle?

The New Japan v UWF-I feud in a nutshell

 

Nobuhiko Takada formed UWF-I in 1991, which was an offshoot of the second UWF incarnation, which itself was founded by Akira Maeda in 1988 when he and Takada left New Japan. The second version of the UWF shut up shop in 1990-1, with Maeda going on to form RINGS and Takada forming the UWF-I.

 

In 1993, UWF-I, with the aid of Lou Thesz who had publicly endorsed UWF-I as real wrestling, made a grandstand challenge to New Japan for a ‘real’ match with Nobuhiko Takada, who was the UWF-I World Champion at the time, and even had Lou Thesz’s original NWA Title belt, to take on Masahiro Chono. They even went to New Japan’s offices to make the challenge, and the wrestling magazines in Japan covered it, which got them heat with New Japan, as New Japan felt the magazines should have known that it was a grandstand challenge and shouldn’t have given them coverage. Anyway, this all ended with New Japan, in order to save face, making a series of counter demands, such as having the match in a cage or something like that, as well as demanding some sort of battle royal, which they knew full well UWF-I would never agree to, as UWF-I was a shoot group, and they’d never do something as obviously fake as that.

 

Later that year, when Vader agreed to work dates for UWF-I, the basis was that Takada had challenged other world champions, with Vader, the WCW Champion at the time, being the only one to accept the challenge.

 

This was also continued in 1994, when UWF-I did this big tournament, and made a grandstand challenge again to other world champions, including RINGS, New Japan, and All Japan, with RINGS and All Japan ignoring it, and Shinya Hashimoto, who was IWGP Champion at the time, publicly decrying UWF-I for not going through the right channels to make the challenge.

 

Fast forward to the middle of 1995, and UWF-I, which had been riding high, was down and virtually out of it. Thesz had left them, Kazuo Yamazaki had jumped to New Japan, and Gary Albright had gone to All Japan, all of which had to do with UWF-I being in a money losing spiral. So, Takada did the only thing he could do to try and keep UWF-I going, and approached New Japan in order to work an inter-promotional feud.

 

The three big events were the Tokyo Dome shows in October of 1995, and January and April of 1996. The October and January Dome shows were both sellout headlined by Takada taking on Keiji Muto, with the first one being the UWF-I Champion (by this time Thesz had gone, so Takada was no longer seen as a true World Champion) against the IWGP Heavyweight Champion, and the combined attendances and gates were 132,000 fans and over $12 million dollars respectively, which make Takada v Muto the best drawing singles feud in history. In addition to that, the April 1996 Dome show, headlined by Takada, who had won the IWGP Title in the second match with Muto, defending against Shinya Hashimoto, was another sellout, drawing 65,000 fans, with a gate of $5.7 million dollars, which make the UWF-I v New Japan the best drawing feud in history.

 

Eric Bischoff was in attendance for the October 1995 Dome Show, which drew 67,000, and was amazed at the business it did, and he was able to see that an inter-promotional feud could do big business, and when the opportunity came at recreating his own version in WCW with Hall and Nash, he jumped at the chance

 

 

What made the UWF-I v New Japan feud different to the NWO v WCW feud is that it ended with the hometown team winning the decisive match and the invaders being the ones to go out of business, and not the other way around.

[JoeDirt 0]

Thank you for the answers!

[alfdogg 0]

Why was the LOD on RAW in 03 against RVD/Kane?

[JoeDirt 0]

Why was the LOD on RAW in 03 against RVD/Kane?

I believe they were getting a tryout at the time, weren't they? Vince was in his nostalgia kick at the time, and so they put them out there to see how they did. And they weren't brought back.

[Jericholic82 0]

I think Superstars changed it's logo when it went from syndication to USA network, which I think was sometime in 96. Wrestling Challenge was long gone by then, I think.

 

You've got me rememeringthe good old days of watching the Superstars, Challenge, and American Gladiators/Grudge Match (a stupid show hosted by Jesse Ventura that replaced Gladiators) block on Saturday afternoon on Fox.

ah yes memories. In th early 90s when I got into wrestling, superstars was on my local (NY) fox network at 12 pm every sat and challenge was at 12pm every sunday. after supertstars I got gladiators. Add those with sat mornign cartoons and I had a cool weekend lol

[Jericholic82 0]

How long was Beulah with Raven in ECW before joining Tommy Dreamer?

Beulah left Raven by announcing she was pregnant somewhere between Holiday Hell 95 (December 95) and Cyberslam 96 (January 96), and I seem to remember her joining Raven in February 95 so that's aprox 11 months as far as I can recall....

 

 

 

 

 

What was the angle that turned Francine heel after she left the Pittbulls?

 

 

The angle took place in the Pitbull 2 vs Shane Douglas vs Jericho vs Scorpio match at Heatwave 96- here's an old pbp I found...

 

 

Francine (The Pitbulls’ manager at the time) gets dragged in by Douglas, and the ref is bumped. Francine then turns on Pitbull and takes her skirt off, revealing “Franchise” underwear. Pitbull comes back, taking the betrayal remarkably well, and clotheslines Douglas out, leaving the Pitbulls to have their way with Francine. They superbomb her through a table.

Douglas had BTB suplexed Francine on ecw tv one night, then pitbull 2 came out and got an impromptu tv title match, which PB won. PB went on to lose to the TV title To Chris Jericho at Hardcore Heaven 96. Jericho in turn was the first guy eliminated in the 4 way match, that Douglas eventually won after francine turned (though she had no real impact on the finish as the bulls had taken her out, which then followed with shaen ddting pb 1 on the belt, "breaking his neck")

The 4 way match with the francine turn is on the "Path of Destruction" VHS AND DVD from late 2000 released on Pioneer Sports Home Video. ( I have the VHS)

[Jericholic82 0]

This isn't really an old school question, but is there any particular reason why Greg Valentine was so crazy over with the fans at Wrestlemania 20?

 

Also, who are some guys who will NEVER make it to the WWE HOF because of personal issues with Vince or others? Savage, possibly?

Bruno (he supposably turned it down this year) most likely.

[Jericholic82 0]

Larry Z definatley will never be in it.

[cawthon777 0]

This isn't really an old school question, but is there any particular reason why Greg Valentine was so crazy over with the fans at Wrestlemania 20?

 

Also, who are some guys who will NEVER make it to the WWE HOF because of personal issues with Vince or others? Savage, possibly?

Bruno (he supposably turned it down this year) most likely.

Bruno will go in the day he dies.

[Precious Roy 0]

Bruno, Warrior....and I guess Savage, though I figure he'll get in at some point...

[BUTT 0]

4) So I was looking over the Wrestling Classics message board and I saw a post talking about what the nWo angle was inspired by, and found this:

 

"The NWO angle was inspired by the UWFi vs. New Japan feud that Eric Bischoff saw first-hand."

 

Anybody have any info on this feud and what took place in it that was like the nWo angle?

The New Japan v UWF-I feud in a nutshell

 

Nobuhiko Takada formed UWF-I in 1991, which was an offshoot of the second UWF incarnation, which itself was founded by Akira Maeda in 1988 when he and Takada left New Japan. The second version of the UWF shut up shop in 1990-1, with Maeda going on to form RINGS and Takada forming the UWF-I.

 

In 1993, UWF-I, with the aid of Lou Thesz who had publicly endorsed UWF-I as real wrestling, made a grandstand challenge to New Japan for a ‘real’ match with Nobuhiko Takada, who was the UWF-I World Champion at the time, and even had Lou Thesz’s original NWA Title belt, to take on Masahiro Chono. They even went to New Japan’s offices to make the challenge, and the wrestling magazines in Japan covered it, which got them heat with New Japan, as New Japan felt the magazines should have known that it was a grandstand challenge and shouldn’t have given them coverage. Anyway, this all ended with New Japan, in order to save face, making a series of counter demands, such as having the match in a cage or something like that, as well as demanding some sort of battle royal, which they knew full well UWF-I would never agree to, as UWF-I was a shoot group, and they’d never do something as obviously fake as that.

 

Later that year, when Vader agreed to work dates for UWF-I, the basis was that Takada had challenged other world champions, with Vader, the WCW Champion at the time, being the only one to accept the challenge.

 

This was also continued in 1994, when UWF-I did this big tournament, and made a grandstand challenge again to other world champions, including RINGS, New Japan, and All Japan, with RINGS and All Japan ignoring it, and Shinya Hashimoto, who was IWGP Champion at the time, publicly decrying UWF-I for not going through the right channels to make the challenge.

 

Fast forward to the middle of 1995, and UWF-I, which had been riding high, was down and virtually out of it. Thesz had left them, Kazuo Yamazaki had jumped to New Japan, and Gary Albright had gone to All Japan, all of which had to do with UWF-I being in a money losing spiral. So, Takada did the only thing he could do to try and keep UWF-I going, and approached New Japan in order to work an inter-promotional feud.

 

The three big events were the Tokyo Dome shows in October of 1995, and January and April of 1996. The October and January Dome shows were both sellout headlined by Takada taking on Keiji Muto, with the first one being the UWF-I Champion (by this time Thesz had gone, so Takada was no longer seen as a true World Champion) against the IWGP Heavyweight Champion, and the combined attendances and gates were 132,000 fans and over $12 million dollars respectively, which make Takada v Muto the best drawing singles feud in history. In addition to that, the April 1996 Dome show, headlined by Takada, who had won the IWGP Title in the second match with Muto, defending against Shinya Hashimoto, was another sellout, drawing 65,000 fans, with a gate of $5.7 million dollars, which make the UWF-I v New Japan the best drawing feud in history.

 

Eric Bischoff was in attendance for the October 1995 Dome Show, which drew 67,000, and was amazed at the business it did, and he was able to see that an inter-promotional feud could do big business, and when the opportunity came at recreating his own version in WCW with Hall and Nash, he jumped at the chance

 

 

What made the UWF-I v New Japan feud different to the NWO v WCW feud is that it ended with the hometown team winning the decisive match and the invaders being the ones to go out of business, and not the other way around.

So UWFI was a real shoot promotion? I thought I read somewhere that they openly claimed to be real (and bashed other promotions for being fake) when in fact their fights were worked, but I guess I have them mixed up with someone else, or maybe I just have the story wrong.

[Precious Roy 0]

UWF-I was worked, shoot style pro-wrestling

[Naked Snake 0]

1. Is there any particular reason why the WWF/E seems to always have done an international tour right after Wrestlemania? It seems to be a yearly tradition.

 

2. Was there any particular reason why March/April was chosen to be the time for Wrestlemania and not any other time of the year? Or is that just how it worked out so they kept going with it?

For number 2, I would think it would have to do something with the fiscal years.

 

Theoritically, if the WWF fiscal year began in April and ended in March (talking about with the stock era) you could have revenues for 2 WrestleMania's in the same fiscal year.

 

I don't know why they would do that, but sometimes You'll see a WrestleMania in April and then March the next year. You could make your revenue look good if you did that. But you would hurt yourself the next fiscal year.

 

I would imagine this wasn't the case in the pre stock area, but nonetheless I'm pretty sure it's the fiscal related.

[BUTT 0]

Just for those who asked about Piper and the "Caged" magazine:

 

[Jingus 0]

Why was the LOD on RAW in 03 against RVD/Kane?

Because Hawk and Animal showed up at TNA like two weeks prior.

[tbondrage99 0]

Why was the LOD on RAW in 03 against RVD/Kane?

Because Hawk and Animal showed up at TNA like two weeks prior.

That was so great yet so sucky at the same time. Great because I thought the LOD were back again. Sucky because I thought the LOD were back again.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Just for those who asked about Piper and the "Caged" magazine:

 

Thanks... that's awesome. That image has been haunting me for years.